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phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,922
JUDGMENT 22 February 2024
Disgorgement (all plus accumulating interest at 9% pa) (Spreadsheet of the running total to date)
- Trump $454m
- Don Jr $4.7m
- Eric $4.7m
- Weisselberg $1.1m
Bans (running from 16 Feb 2024)
- Serving as officer/director in NY - Trump/McConney/Weisselberg 3 years, Eric/Don Jr 2 years
- from any financial control job - Weisselberg/McConney lifetime
- applying for loans - Trump + corporate defendants 3 years
Business certificates NOT cancelled (at least not yet)
Independent monitor over Trump Org extended for at least 3 years
Independent Compliance Director to be appointed


People of the State of New York v Donald J Trump, Donald Trump Jr(*1), Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump(*2), Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, The Donald J Trump Revocable Trust, The Trump Organisation Inc., Trump Organisation LLC, DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holdings Managing Member, Trump Endeavour 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture LLC, Trump Old Post Office LLC, 40 Wall Street LLC, and Seven Springs LLC

*1 Donald Jr sued personally and as Trustee of the Donald J Trump Revocable Trust
*2 Ivanka dismissed from the case on appeal

This is the New York civil fraud case. AG James has also made criminal referrals to both DoJ and IRS, which I'll add to this thread if they happen. (I expect that at least the IRS one will be settled).

CASE DETAILS
Court: In the Supreme Court of New York (which, in New York, is a trial court)
Case#: 452564/2022 (docket link, I think it works)
Brought by: Letitia James, Attorney General of New York
Judge: Arthur Engoron
Defense lawyers: Chris Kise, Alina Habba, Jesus Suarez, Clifford Robert

COMPLAINT
The complaint itself (as revised) runs to 222 pages, and there are 24 exhibits as well, mostly financial statements and spreadsheets. If you want to just get an overview, read at the index on pages 6-7 of the complaint, and Exhibit 2 which is a 2-page summary of the alleged deceptive strategies used.

Causes of action - all for "repeated and persistent illegality" in:
1) fraud
2) falsifying business records
3) conspiracy to falsify business records
4) issuing false financial statements
5) conspiracy to falsify financial statements
6) insurance fraud
7) conspiracy to insurance fraud

EVENTS (from Docket, but expurgated!)
17 Feb 2022 - ORDER adding Trump, Jr, Ivanka as defendants
21 Sep 2022 - Revised Complaint filed
13 Oct 2022 - AG motion for preliminary injunction and appointment of monitor
4 Nov 2022 - ORDER GRANTING preliminary injunction and independent monitor (quite a good read)
14 Nov 2022 - Barbara Jones appointed as independent monitor
21 Nov 2022 - SIX motions to dismiss from various defendant parties
9 Jan 2023 - ORDER DENYING motions to dismiss
26 Jan 2023 - ANSWERS to complaint (enormous documents putting AG to proof)
3 Feb 2023 - APPEAL of denial of orders to dismiss
9 Feb 2023 - long letter with giant spreadsheet from AG on deficiencies in answers
21 Feb 2023 - lots of AMENDED ANSWERS to complaint
21 Feb 2023 - Defendants request to extend fact discovery (and delay trial)
23 Feb 2023 - ORDER restricting expert discovery
14 Mar 2023 - DISCOVERY EXTENDED into April
9 Jun 2023 - revised schedule
6 July 2023 - APPEALS COURT OPINION dismisses Ivanka, applies limitations to others from 2014 or 2016
22 Sep 2023 - hearing on pretrial motions
26 Sep 2023 - SUMMARY JUDGMENT on count 1, sanctions and motion to dismiss
28 Sep 2023 - appeals court VACATES stay of trial - we're on for Monday!
2 Oct 2023 - START OF TRIAL (each trial day is threadmarked)
- State's opening argument slides , witness list
- Defense opening argument slides , witness list
TRIAL TRANSCRIPTS
- state's case 2 Oct-9 Nov
- defense case 13-17 Nov, 20-21 Nov, 27 Nov-1 Dec, 4-8 Dec, 12-13 Dec
4 Oct 2023 - Trump appeals summary judgment
5 Oct 2023 - Supplemental ORDER restricting defendant activities, require notice of transactions
15 Nov 2023 - Trump motion for mistrial, AG letter 16 Nov, DENIED 17 Nov (actually an order to show cause rather than a motion - the effect is the same)
13 Dec 2023 END OF TRIAL
15 Dec 2023 - Trump motion for directed verdict, opposed 18 Dec, DENIED 18 Dec
4 Jan 2024 - media application for video coverage of closing arguments
5 Jan 2024 CLOSING BRIEFS
- Attorney General: findings of fact and conclusions of law
- All defendants except Don Jr and Eric: findings of fact, conclusions of law
- Don Jr and Eric: findings of fact, conclusions of law
10 Jan - email chain DENYING Trump's proposed participation in closing arguments
11 Jan 2024 - closing arguments: plaintiff, defendants, Don Jr & Eric
26 Jan 2024 - independent monitor report, Trump complains about it 29 Jan
6 Feb 2024 - Judge Engoron letter to counsel (Weisselberg perjury), AG response 7 Feb, Robert response 7 Feb (Engoron reply 8 Feb), Habba response 7 Feb
16 Feb 2024 - DECISION DAY $364m + bans
20 Feb 2024 - AG proposed JUDGMENT, Trump objects and wants a 30-day stay, DENIED
22 Feb 2024 - JUDGMENT entered
21 Mar 2024 - MONITORSHIP ORDER
1 Apr 2024 - $175m bond filed, AG notice of exception 4 Apr, response due 15 Apr, SHOW CAUSE ORDER 16 Apr, response 19 Apr, hearing 22 Apr, stipulation 26 Apr ...
4 Apr 2024 - AG letter to reopen discovery re Weisselberg perjury, defendants' response 8 Apr, Weisselberg response 8 Apr, AG letter 9 Apr, ...
24 Apr 2024 - Independent Monitor report
26 Apr 2024 - ORDER permitting Independent Monitor to communicate ex parte

Appellate Division, First Department
(Article 78 proceeding as Trump v Engoron 2023-04580) petitioning to have judge apply appeals decision
20 Sep 2023 petition, stay lifted 28 Sep, petition withdrawn 5 Oct

(Article 78 proceeding as Trump v Engoron 2023-05859) appealing gag order and sanctions
16 Nov - Trump appeals gag order, stay temporarily lifted 16 Nov, opposed 22 Nov, DENIED 14 Dec
21 Dec - Leave to appeal to NY Court of Appeals DENIED

To find these following appeals dockets, click on the main case docket, then Case Details to get a full list, and click through

(2023-04925) appeal of summary judgment 26 Sep 2023 cancelling business certificates
25 Mar 2024 - motion to extend deadline to perfect appeal by 60 days from 4 Apr to 3 Jun
4 Apr 2024 - original deadline to perfect appeal

(2023-05181) appeal of supplemental order 4 Oct 2023 giving deadline for names of candidate receivers
17 Oct 2023 - notice of appeal

(2023-05460) appeal of 30 Oct order for Ivanka Trump to testify
1 Nov 2024 - notice of appeal, stay denied 2 Nov, appeal withdrawn 3 Nov, order 14 Dec

(2024-00134) appeal of 16 Feb Decision and Order
26 Feb 2024 - notice of appeal
28 Feb 2024 - Trump motion for stay (at p1742 of 1794), (administrative stay opposed 28 Feb, GRANTED IN PART 28 Feb (bans & loan ban only)), opposed 11 Mar, reply 18 Mar, (motion for surreply 20 Mar, opposed 21 Mar, GRANTED 21 Mar) surreply 22 Mar, ORDER 25 Mar setting bond at $175m by 4 Apr
4 Apr 2024 - $175m bond due
Appeal calendared for September term, so probably ...
8 Jul 2024 - Trump appeal brief and copy of trial record
7 Aug 2024 - AG response brief
16 Aug 2024 - Trump reply brief
?? Sep 2024 - Oral Argument

(2024-00135) appeal of 22 Feb Judgment
26 Feb 2024 - notice of appeal

New York State Commission on Judicial Conduct
10 Nov 2023 - complaint by Elise Stefanik, ...

APPLICABLE LAW
New York Executive Law s 63(12)
12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law 3 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term "repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.
Also various bits of the NY Penal Code, especially
175.05 falsifying business records
175.45 issuing false financial statements
176.05 insurance fraud
New York Civil Procedure

PRESS REPORTS
21 Sept 2022 New York AG file $250m lawsuit against Trump (ABC News)
21 Sept 2022 New York Attorney General Letitia James says Trump committed crimes, asks federal prosecutors and IRS to investigate (CNBC)
Feb 2023 Trump trial will go ahead on 2nd October "come hell or high water" says judge (Business Insider)
14 Apr 2023 Trump sat for 7-hour deposition (Al Jazeera) (he pled the 5th 400 times!)

REPORTERS IN THE COURTROOM
Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) for MSNBC
Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) for The Messenger
Jose Pagliery (@Jose_Pagliery) for the Daily Beast
Frank Runyeon (@frankrunyeon) for Law360 - there is a liveblog on law360.com, but it is paywalled
Stewart Bishop (@stewartbishop) for Law360
Dan Alexander (@DanAlexander21) for Forbes - he knows the financials inside out

BACKGROUND
This all comes out of Trump's carefully-concealed financial records, which New York eventually got hold of from the accounting firm Mazars after a series of protracted court cases culminating in Trump v Vance in the Supreme Court (Clarence and Alito dissenting, surprise). The subpoena was issued in August 2019, but it took until February 2021 to get hold of the millions of documents, after going all up and down the Federal appeals system TWICE. To nobody's surprise at all, there was an awful lot of fraud going on. Allegedly. Including the absolute gall of the former President overstating by three times the size of his Trump Tower apartment when face-to-face with a real-estate valuer who was standing in said apartment at the time!

There's a lot at stake here. AG James is seeking, amongst other things, to:
- CANCEL the business certificates of corporate defendants (lots of Trump Org entities)
- REPLACE the trustees of the Donald J Trump Revocable Trust
- for 5 years, require independently audited accounts and BAR Trump & Trump Org from acquiring any NY real estate and even applying for loans
- PERMANENTLY BAR Trump & the kids from being an officer or director of any NY firm
- RECOVER about $250,000,000 in benefits of the fraud
(the prayers for relief are lettered from A to J, but there's no letter H, I wonder what got taken out?)

I've elided over lots of boring things in the docket in the "Events" section above. Much of it is duplicated and largely identical filings because of the large number of defendants. But three episodes stuck out to me:

The first, in early January, was an email from the judge threatening defense counsel with sanctions for frivolous litigation, followed by counsels' oleaginous reply suggesting the judge was wrong, then the judge's order denying the motions to dismiss which drips with heavy sarcasm.

The second, in early March, is a letter to Judge Engoron from Roberta Kaplan (who you may remember as E. Jean Carroll's counsel, but is also counsel in yet another case against Trump Corp.) pointing out Trump's duplicitous tactics of playing off two different trials against each other in the hope of delaying both. It's a tactic we'll need to be aware of as the tsunami of cases grows.

The third is the ruling from the New York Appellate Division on Jun 9, which partially overruled Judge Engoron. Basically it decided that:
1) the NY statues of limitation do apply in this case, notwithstanding AG James contention and Judge Engoron's ruling that in a case of persistent fraud they should not.
2) that therefore the case against Ivanka is dismissed (because she was not part of the Trump Org within the statute of limitations)
3) (I think by implication this must mean that the case against Seven Springs LLC will be dropped too)
4) that the Trust should have been sued through its Trustees, but it doesn't make any real difference as there's only one Trustee (Don Jr) and he is a defendant anyway.

Should be fun, this one.

Also on Resetera
Breaking: Donald Trump hit with $250 million financial fraud lawsuit by New York AG, criminal referral to DOJ
Judge says he will appoint monitor for Trump's company in wake of New York fraud lawsuit
Judge rules Donald Trump defrauded banks, insurers as he built real estate empire
Trump has been fined $364 million by Judge Engoron in the New York civil fraud case.
NY Attorney General takes initial steps to prepare to seize Trump assets ahead of next week

People who enjoyed this may also enjoy ...
E Jean Carroll v Donald J Trump (civil case for battery and defamation)
Trump on Trial - Episode 1 |OT| The One with the Porn Star
Trump on Trial - Episode 2 |OT| The One with the Perfect Phone Call in Georgia (Fulton County)
Trump on Trial - Episode 4 |OT| The One with the Missing Documents
Trump on Trial - Episode 5 |OT| The One with the Insurrection
Trump on Trial - Episode 6 |OT| The One with the One Weird Trick (14th amendment ballot access)
Trump on Trial - Episode 7 |OT| The Ones with the Ku Klux Klan Act (Jan 6 civil cases)
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
4,922
This is the last of the main "Trump on Trial" episodes. I'm posting it now as we are at a convenient point to pick up the story after the Appeals court ruling and before the filing of dispositive motions due early August.

There are a lot of other Trump and Trump-adjacent lawsuits (I think 30-40 of them), so I am considering one additional thread of "Bonus Mini-Episodes" to sweep them all up. There's probably not enough general interest in any one of them to warrant a thread, but it might be handy to be able to reference them when it comes to looking at trial schedules and so on (and to link to any threads that anybody wants to make for any of them). It'll be a lot of work to gather the information, though. Let me know what you think.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,922
Is this his third trial? Or sixth? I actually can't keep up anymore.

It'll be his second recent trial, after the E Jean Carroll one. The rest are either scheduled into next year or waiting for indictments.

Of course, it all depends how far back you want to go. There are loads of old ones!
 
Jan 27, 2019
16,084
Fuck off
So many ongoing trials and indictments, it's hard to keep up with all of them.

That said, keep piling it on, Trump should be broke and behind bars until he dies.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,201
PIT
This is the last of the main "Trump on Trial" episodes. I'm posting it now as we are at a convenient point to pick up the story after the Appeals court ruling and before the filing of dispositive motions due early August.

There are a lot of other Trump and Trump-adjacent lawsuits (I think 30-40 of them), so I am considering one additional thread of "Bonus Mini-Episodes" to sweep them all up. There's probably not enough general interest in any one of them to warrant a thread, but it might be handy to be able to reference them when it comes to looking at trial schedules and so on (and to link to any threads that anybody wants to make for any of them). It'll be a lot of work to gather the information, though. Let me know what you think.

Again, thank you for all the hard work keeping these up to date. The Mini Episodes OT will be very handy for showing Trump being shown justice.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,348
This is the last of the main "Trump on Trial" episodes. I'm posting it now as we are at a convenient point to pick up the story after the Appeals court ruling and before the filing of dispositive motions due early August.

There are a lot of other Trump and Trump-adjacent lawsuits (I think 30-40 of them), so I am considering one additional thread of "Bonus Mini-Episodes" to sweep them all up. There's probably not enough general interest in any one of them to warrant a thread, but it might be handy to be able to reference them when it comes to looking at trial schedules and so on (and to link to any threads that anybody wants to make for any of them). It'll be a lot of work to gather the information, though. Let me know what you think.

As always, thank you for all your work. These threads are great! It's so nice to have good information and updates in one place.

On the topic of a "bonus crimes" thread, I would say don't work yourself to death. I'd love to have, like, a counter, but if a case isn't weighing on Trump's mind, significantly impacting his finances, or hindering his candidacy, then I for one don't have a lot of interest.
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,314
So this could potentially cripple his ability to do business in the US for quite a while. That'd be a wild outcome for a civil case
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,922
So this could potentially cripple his ability to do business in the US for quite a while. That'd be a wild outcome for a civil case

Yes, it's quite an unusual civil case since it's brought under the AG's supervisory authority. It'll hamper business in NY state for sure, but as some of the fraudulently-valued assets are in other jurisdictions (like California, Scotland and Ireland) there could be all manner of cases spinning off from this. That's why it deserved its own thread.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
4,922
Bold of you to assume he hasn't committed other crimes that will come to light. Hell, he's probably committing some right now.

Sure he is, but Trump's a simple man, he plays whatever is confronting him right now - so it's probably just plain ornery witness tampering in one of the main cases.
 

RetroRunner

Member
Dec 6, 2020
4,951
How are future movie makers going to know which one of these to put in the movie? Whole last act just going to be a 30 minute Supercuts of court cases
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
4,922
I was expecting to see some dispositive motions in this case by now. But it turns out the parties have had some difficulty agreeing what can and can't be filed on the public docket (because of confidentiality of information), so the judge has ordered them to do motions by email for now, and to catch up the docket with (potentially redacted) filings with a 14-day delay.

So stuff is happening, but chances are we will not see anything for another two weeks. Which is probably just as well given everything happening in the other cases.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
4,922
This case seems to be trundling along to trial as planned, but we don't have much visibility of it as the dispositive motions have not been put on the docket yet.

There's a further delay because several third parties have moved to have things sealed, and there will be a hearing on that on Aug 25th. Only after that is resolved will the motions be put on the docket.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
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At last, about a month from trial, this one is hotting up.

AG James has filed for partial summary judgment, saying that undisputed facts show the Trumps overstated their worth by up $2b a year
The defendants have filed for summary judgment, saying (roughly) "so what? where's the harm in that?"

They are both big filings with zillions of attachments, and not worth going into detail on, but could one of you please check that my links work?
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,069
Earth

Trump Asks to Dismiss Suit as A.G. Says He Inflated Worth by $2.2 Billion


Before any of those criminal trials will take place, Mr. Trump is scheduled for a civil trial in New York in October. During the trial, the attorney general, Letitia James, will seek to bar him and three of his children from leading their family business, the Trump Organization, and to require him to pay a fine of around $250 million.
On Wednesday, Ms. James fired an opening salvo, arguing that a trial is not necessary to find that Mr. Trump and the other defendants inflated the value of their assets in annual financial statements, fraudulently obtaining favorable loans and insurance arrangements.

The fraud was so pervasive, she said in a court filing, that Mr. Trump had falsely boosted his net worth by between $812 million and $2.2 billion each year over the course of a decade.
But Mr. Trump's lawyers, in their own motion, argued that the entire case should be thrown out, relying in large part on a recent appellate court decision that appeared as if it could significantly narrow the scope of the case because of a legal time limit. Mr. Trump had received most of the loans in question too long ago for the matter to be considered by a court, his lawyers argue.
Both filings seek what is known as summary judgment, or a ruling from the judge that they are entitled to a victory before trial based on undisputed facts in evidence.
Ms. James sought that ruling on the claim at the core of her case — that Mr. Trump's financial statements were fraudulent — and if she prevails, it would mark a significant victory and could smooth her path to a potential win at trial on the remaining claims.
If Mr. Trump won even partial summary judgment, the case could become a shadow of what it once appeared, significantly lowering the stakes of the October trial.

www.nytimes.com

Trump Asks to Dismiss Suit as A.G. Says He Inflated Worth by $2.2 Billion

Letitia James, the attorney general, asked a judge to find, without a trial, that the former president had fraudulently overvalued his assets.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,669
Fingers crossed.

Maybe one can legally call him "rapist and fraudster" before his criminal trials even properly start.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

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Oct 26, 2017
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Trump's deposition in this case has now been filed (it was taken back in April).

Meidas Touch has done a sort of summary here.

It's nearly 500 pages long, and the usual Trump weaselly stuff. He seems to rely a lot on a paragraph in the disclaimer that he refers to as a "worthless clause".

page 67 said:
A. Everybody. I mean, people. heard the expression for years. Accounting firms call a "worthless clause." Some people call it a "disclaimer." Some people call it a "worthless clause."
Q. So it's your position --
A. Many lawyers have come to me and said, you have the greatest worthless clause I've ever seen. How can they be using this statement against you?

Trouble for him is that para comes right after the para that says that Donald J Trump is responsible for preparing valuations to accepted accounting standards - which he is considerably less keen to talk about.

I don't really recommend reading the whole thing unless you want your head to drop off.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,861
uUw8Uyx.png




View: https://imgur.com/a/BY5YgXg
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,927
So his claims are hilarious. He said he would assess value of properties based on what they could be worth.

That's not how any of this works. The whole point of value assessment is so a lender knows you can afford to pay for the loan in case you lose all of your income during the loan period.

If something happens and you need to liquify assets, you probably aren't going to be able to afford to bring up a property up to its potential value. It's too late at that point!

The best part about this is Trump claims to be this incredible businessman but then this makes him sounds like a novice at best.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,486
Phoenix
This dude could have lived the rest of his life rich as hell and would have never been investigated but, a Black man made fun of him...
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,669
Many lawyers have come to me and said, you have the greatest worthless clause I've ever seen. How can they be using this statement against you?


Where those lawyers big, burly men with tears in their eyes? Why did tehy foret to call him sir?!

Oh god, he can't stop being megalomanic dickhead for one second.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,628

Trump Asks to Dismiss Suit as A.G. Says He Inflated Worth by $2.2 Billion









www.nytimes.com

Trump Asks to Dismiss Suit as A.G. Says He Inflated Worth by $2.2 Billion

Letitia James, the attorney general, asked a judge to find, without a trial, that the former president had fraudulently overvalued his assets.

This reminds me of Anthony Jeselnik saying that everything except for one thing was allowed in the Comedy Central Trump roast from talking about his appearance to his family. The one thing off limits was talking about money. You were absolutely not allowed to suggest that he had less money than he claimed to have.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Oct 26, 2017
4,922
Sad person that I am, I'm reading the whole thing. And there's a wild story starting about p264 about the Jupiter Golf Club in Florida.

Trump says he bought it cheap for $5m. He didn't, he bought it for $46m - $5m in cash and $41m in assumed liabilities for refundable member deposits.
(a) he didn't list the liabilities in his financial statement
(b) he stiffed all the members out of their deposits, giving himself a $41m windfall which he failed to declare for tax

Bad enough, but as this is on Trump's own telling whatever he really did is probably worse. (He did say that "most of them agreed" they would not get their money back - I would be very surprised if that were the case.)
 

Garp TXB

Member
Apr 1, 2020
6,333
Sad person that I am, I'm reading the whole thing. And there's a wild story starting about p264 about the Jupiter Golf Club in Florida.

Trump says he bought it cheap for $5m. He didn't, he bought it for $46m - $5m in cash and $41m in assumed liabilities for refundable member deposits.
(a) he didn't list the liabilities in his financial statement
(b) he stiffed all the members out of their deposits, giving himself a $41m windfall which he failed to declare for tax

Bad enough, but as this is on Trump's own telling whatever he really did is probably worse. (He did say that "most of them agreed" they would not get their money back - I would be very surprised if that were the case.)

You're not sad, you're a hero. It's comforting to know you're getting into the weeds on this stuff, so you can be better informed in case we have more detailed questions. Seriously, you should be getting paid for this
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,802
It's really crazy that he seems to have been burning the candle at both ends, overvaluing for loans, undervaluing for taxes.
 
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phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,922
Finally finished this thing. It is a hell of a tedious read, because Trump is so repetitive that it's easy to accidentally skip 10 pages and not notice.

Some things that I spotted on the way through (I didn't note the page numbers).

1) Trump is relying heavily on the disclaimer or the "worthless clause" as he calls it on the financial statements. Even when he explicitly warrants that they are true and accurate in his loan agreements with Deutsche Bank.

2) He actually did claim the the man from Mazars came to him with tears in his eyes, after they'd had to hand over the documents.

3) Early on Trump talks about how you have to do property comparisons based on the square footage because obviously you can't lie about the size. And then goes on, in a live deposition with the real numbers in front of him, to overstate the square footage of his own apartment, the acreage of Trump Aberdeen, the acreage of Trump Doral, the acreage of Trump Turnberry. [also, in the complaint, he's caught out understating the acreage of comparison properties to get a higher price-per-acre to multiply by his inflated acreage.]

4) Q: Isn't there a covenant that you have to run Mar-a-Lago as a club? A: Yes but there are ways around that. Nothing to stop you having a really small club with only you and your family as members.

5) All the property valuations seem to be based on building tone of condominiums on top of them, even when you can't.

6) On the valuation of the beachfront property opposite Mar-a-Lago, he justifies the valuation because he actually received an [outrageous] offer for the property that for some reason fell through. When questioned about who made that offer it was some LLC or other. When questioned about who was behind the LLC there was a bit of a row between the lawyers and Trump's answer "I am" seems to have got missed by everyone!

7) Loan agreements specify that valuations must not include any mark-up for the Trump brand, but Trump routinely adds 30%+ to anything with the Trump name in it (and that's after building hypothetical condos).

8) Several times during the deposition Trump claims the true value of Mar-a-Lago to be 1.5 billion. That's just lunatic.

Looks like this is going to be a bench trial. Good. I don't envy Judge Engoron, but a Jury's heads would be spinning.

(also, a note on Trump's lawyers. Kise was fairly combative throughout, while Habba was like a little yapping puppy objecting whenever Kise did and sometimes getting overeager and getting her objection in first which I don't think pleased Kise.)
 
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ivantod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,522
It's really crazy that he seems to have been burning the candle at both ends, overvaluing for loans, undervaluing for taxes.
Unfortunately, this was known already for a very long time, it's just that nobody wanted to do anything about it until now. I've seen a Maddow segment several YEARS ago, going into detail on this topic, with more than one specific example of this sort of thing!