Twitter annouces it's banning all depictions of child pornography, including loli and shota art
- Thread starter Deleted member 1258
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Can people clarify what loli and shota are? Can't loli just be chibi versions of characters? For example, is this loli or is there a difference between chibi and loli?
I don't care about this stuff, but I could see some segments of the animenet being hurt by this, especially creators.
Loli comes from the word lolita, a book from 1955 about a step father seducing and becoming sexually active with his 12 year old step-daughter. Loli, like lots of japanese words, is just the normal word "lolita" with the tail cut off.
Loli isn't just SD and chibi characters -- there are already terms for that, literally "super deformed" and "chibi." Loli specifically refers to sexualizing child-like characters. There is really no ambiguity.
Doesn't dude literally say he draws from reference? I don't know how he's been able to get on doing what he does as long as he has.
Alright, look. I think Loli is gross as shit, but trying to make it illegal is a terrible idea and not really viable in practice.
I'm just gonna put the free speech and who's hurt arguments aside - they're important to have, but that's, like, a whole other thing.
Disregarding that, you gotta think about what "underage pornography" is.
First, "underage" is easy to define in the real world - anyone under the age of consent. But in cartoons? It's really fucking convoluted.
Canonical age? Doesn't really work. It's kind of ridiculous in its own right, and it's stupid easy to circumvent with the classic "5000 year old dragon!" excuses. And age in anime is all over the place regardless, what with their grizzled 21-year old war vets.
Appearance? That's highly subjective and incredibly hard to define. Anime generally has an art-style that makes everyone look really young regardless. I saw a dude who sincerely argued that Princess Peach was jailbait. He was real stupid, but it shows how much of a matter of opinion this stuff is.
And how, exactly, is "pornography" defined?
You could try saying "Anything that would be considered exploitation if it's done with real kids!" but that's incredibly broad and would get even South Park, Dragon Ball, and IT declared child porn. And if someone wants to make a sincere, not-intended-for-boners story about children and sex, they're SOL.
Intent? Intent is incredibly murky at the best of times, let alone this shit. Someone could easily say "Oh, it's satire!" and it's hard to really argue otherwise.
Whether or not it's sexualized? Haha good luck fucking resolving that debate any time soon.
Plus, it'd be declaring a lot of shit illegal retroactively, which would get real messy real fast.
I approve of banning it from online platforms, because those have total freedom in being subjective with "Oh, well this is child porn, and this isn't." Governments don't.
This is very good, but I hope it doesn't extend to banning adult content in the future. Twitter is the only social media left to allow it.
gonna be interesting seeing how this interacts with a lot of companies that are borderline (or official artists who are borderline/already plunged in the deep end)
Also how is this going to interact with 9000 year old dragons or whatever
Also how is this going to interact with 9000 year old dragons or whatever
I wonder if all the people still posting variations of "it wasn't before??" honestly think they're the first people to make that comment.
Not all porn is bad
I mean porn can be bad for certain people but you know what I'm talking about
The NSFW ban pretty much killed Tumblr, been back on there and it's nowhere near as good as it was, everything feels less active now and there are so many 'blocked content' notices on so many fandom art blogs.
Anecdotally, it seems like it is working pretty poorly. For starters Tumblr is still filled to the brim with porn (and Tumblr's own algorithms keep trying to recommend it despite my blog having nothing pornographic on it lol) all they did was pixelate the avatars of the blogs and successfully block a really small amount of pornographic imagery.
The main thing it has done is unfairly target the LGBT audience on Tumblr (see: most of Tumblr) and has incorrectly flagged many innocent blogs as pornographic and pushed many communities off the site entirely. I'll honestly be surprised if Tumblr is still around two years from now if they continue doing shit they say they are now.
Well, I thought that I made a lot of good arguments about why applying it to Law would go terribly, but sure I guess I used the word "but" so feel free to dismiss all of that I guess
I think its certainly very difficult from an implementational perspective if they're aiming to capture all related imagery algorithmically etc or even to push it past a team of moderators solely with reported content
however, if the intent is more to change twitter's general climate and attitudes of permissiveness towards the type of work, i think it can be effective
there will be collateral but I think twitter has decided they don't give af and will just nuke everything from orbit
Fgo itself has been pretty good with not sexualizing new loli servants. Beni enma, sitonai, and miyu are all pretty tame compared to whatever the heck Jack the Ripper (assassin) went through. Fanart on the other hand....
The slippery slope arguments are bullshit. "It's satire" wouldn't fly.
I don't really think it's a slippery slope thing, more of a "Trying to write a well-defined law banning it is basically impossible because it's based on is really subjective as to what even counts" thing.
Actually making it a law, as opposed to just banning it on all art websites, in any country would be an absurd waste of law enforcement resources just to get rid of people drawing disturbing stuff. You going to ask a detective to work on catching someone drawing anime? Hard to argue for banning disturbing art when all these resources would be much better used cracking down hard on anyone perpetrating real child abuse and bringing all those fuckers to justice.
I googled this name, I really wish I fucking didn't. I'm probably on a govt watchlist now
I would imagine they could just post on pixv if they really care? That's where a number of the 3d anim creators went after Tumblr banned adult content. Have to say while I don't know if being attracted to loli stuff means you'd be attracted to real life kids, I think the risk of it triggering that kind of thought or urge is probably too high so Twitter banning it was probably the right call.
The problem with pixiv is that they change the user guidelines where it now states that they own all the art being posted om the site. It is why a good chunk of artists move to twitter exclusively.
"Caught the perp...sick fuck had a WaCom Tablet and the latest issue of My Hero Academia"
"Just take him out back and shoot him."
love the people in this thread going "we can't be perfect and that means we shouldn't attempt to be good"
One of your arguments is "how is pornography defined." Have you ever looked up the legal definition of pornography? Because it's exactly what you are claiming "wouldn't work."
oh btw if you're so worried about false flags that you think this shouldn't be done, you can get fucked, if your art is close enough to be detected by the algorithim it should be nuked because it's not more important than the mission statement and you're being REALLY OBVIOUS ABOUT YOUR INTENTIONS if you think it is
and I'm speaking as an artist here. I don't give a shit about the consequences, this shit needs to die, now. We can figure out the tweaking later.
and I'm speaking as an artist here. I don't give a shit about the consequences, this shit needs to die, now. We can figure out the tweaking later.
You're putting way too much faith in these algorithms. It's not that they'll detect "close" stuff, they can potentially detect things that are completely unrelated.
And those things that are completely unrelated are not worth the absense of a fucking algorithm when it comes to shit like this. If you think they are you need to get your fucking priorities straight.
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