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Oct 25, 2017
1,234
UK NW
Oh boy the shittiest tabloid newspapers over here are starting against shit again.
How on earth do they even come to this conclusion, the game has one scene as of yet with this content. Plus it sure as shit isn't the desired outcome in the first place, I think they are just making a mountain out of a molehill personally.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,456
Like every David Cage game I have no faith Detroit will be good nor treat the subject matter presented in it properly, but this is just dumb. They still think video games are for children and that every experience in games today is suppose to be fun. Games are more than that now, they have been for awhile.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,383
Old people/politicians just do not get games, and they should just stay out of things they don't understand.
 

FromAshesRise

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
923
Why do people keep saying they don't believe David Cage can do this right?

The all too easy answer is "because he can't do anything right" - but I'll bite.

Everything we have seen so far of Detroit has been, ironically, divorced of actual humanity. There's no real major point to anything we've seen in the game beyond the scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel of a popular trope in science fiction for decades. AI robots aren't treated like humans, even though they probably deserve to be treated as such. Great. The fact that you can "play through" a trite and poorly written story shouldn't be reason to hold it in high regard. A work's interactivity shouldn't elevate its glaring flaws. And I specifically call this out, because said interactivity is about the only thing that actually sets Detroit apart in unique value from a C budget hollywood film of the same nature. If you could spin the camera around in the movie adaptation of IRobot, it wouldn't make it any better of an adaptation.

That's not even close to speak of the fact that this game is arbitrarily set in Detroit for no real legitimate reason at all. It' called "Detroit" - in only as tone-deaf of a way as David Cage could ever do - in the middle of actual, relevant shit happening in the American midwest. From police abusing their power over minority groups, to actual Government officials allowing their constituencies to drink poisonous water and literally not doing anything about it. And none of this, not an iota of this, will likely be touched upon in this game because David Cage just randomly wanted to call his game "Detroit" because he thinks Detroit has a "cool manufacturing history". There's no actual thought whatsoever put into why Detroit would matter or be important to the overall story about this generic as fuck game about white-skinned robots, completely blind to the real world.

So yeah, I don't think he can do this right either. The trailer the article is so colossally shitty that it's almost an insult to a very real epidemic of child abuse.

But the article in question is equally shitty. Just because I dislike Cage's work doesn't mean I want to see the game removed or whatever.

and this is the reason why David Cage was right in asking that Eurogamer interview "would you ask this question to a film director or a writer" and why it was a dumb question to begin with. As long as the game industry (press included) don't take themselves serious as an art form don't expect tabloids like the Daily Mail or the general public to do it. Social issues should be able to be tackled in any art form, games included.

Quantic Dream/Sony should not give an inch to these people.

People ask film directors difficult questions about social issues within their works literally all the time. Yes they should be tackled. People like Cage who do a shitty job at doing it deserve to get called out on it.
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Movies are entertainment right? So what about the hostal, saw, and abuse dramas? Rape?

Books?

Yeah, doesn't make sense. That's why there are classifications and ratings.
 

NepsKnight

Member
Nov 7, 2017
70
Planeptune
This is actually illegal in the UK, and why Atlus had to change one CG in Utawarerumono: Mask of Deception. I wouldn't be shocked if they have to censor it or take a ban.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,302
Considering that one of the possible scenarios they showed in the trailer results in the abuser getting his ass handed to him for being an abuser, I don't see how this promotes child abuse.
 

klauskpm

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,258
Brazil
To those who quoted me. I didn't play any of his games, outside of Beyond which I didn't liked. It's okay to expect a bad game from someone who did games you didn't liked, and rightfully so.

I just think that someone can improves and what was shown had enough context.

There was an article saying it didn't trusted David Cage with domestic abuse, which I disagree entirely, and it sounded like like you were spreading the same thinking. That's why I wanted to know.

Not giving the benefit of the doubt, after experiencing his previous entries, is understandable and I wouldn't question it.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Movies are entertainment right? So what about the hostal, saw, and abuse dramas? Rape?

Books?

Yeah, doesn't make sense. That's why there are classifications and ratings.

To be fair a David Cage game pretty much is a movie so someone should let the Tory Party know this technically isn't a game...

Tory MP Damian Collins, Chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, said: 'It is completely wrong for domestic violence to be part of a video game regardless of what the motivation is. Domestic violence is not a game and this simply trivialises it. I worry that people who play this who themselves have suffered abuse will use this game to shape the way in which they deal with abusers.

'It's dangerous to plant the seed in people's minds that the way to deal with abusers is to use violence against them. It's counter-productive and could put them in even more danger.'

I mean, Damian should be embarrassed at that last statement. He's got the brass to feign empathy for real abuse victims yet implies because of what a video game depicts in a fictional situation abuse victims will all be copying it? I mean, does he even know Kara is an android and this is a science fiction story? Yeah, I bet not.
 
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IDreamOfHime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,468
Surely the Daily Mail are too busy printing poison stories about Meghan Markle to go after a computer game?
 

DisturbedSwan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,815
Hampshire, UK.
Can't see why Daily Mail threads should be allowed, abhorrent trash fire of a 'newspaper' known for inciting hate and prejudice - not far removed from the likes of Breibart.
 

semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140
agree with others here: clearly a case of people feeling free to go on about a subject, absent any sense of context whatsoever...
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,335
I agree with you, but the Daily Mail isn't critical discussion, it's braindead shit-flinging from a hate-rag.
They shouldn't have to respond to every pearl clutching mother who doesn't like their art. Same with any movie, tv show, or book. You can critique it all yo want, that doesn't require Cage to acknowledge you. Besides, the game isn't even out yet, don't we usually wait until something is finished before judging it? We don't know how it will play out in the final game, the scene might even be cut for completely unrelated reasons.
I was discussing Cage's reaction to a question in an earlier interview. Felt I made it pretty clear what I thought of the moral panic gibberish from the chip wrapper.
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
Reminds me of Polygon getting mad at virtual whaling in the Assassin's Creed games.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,579
I think art (movies, books, games, music etc.) should be allowed to explore this type of subject matter as it is real subject matter that we can't simply pretend doesn't exist.

With that said this trailer is why I'm not getting the game. This is too dark for me, I was physically ill.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,566
In a thread where conservatives are suggesting censorship of video games and people are talking about David Cage, smh,
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,780
Birmingham, UK
you cant make this shit up lol

Yeah, unfortunately that's the problem with fully paid up members of the cult of the child; it's not enough to merely protect children from harm, the very image of childhood must be protected too. She has done good work in the past, I'll give her that, but strangely she wasn't terribly pro-active about raising concerns when she was made aware of the rumours about Jimmy Savile.
 
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Yurinka

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,457
I understand the scene may be too strong for some people who suffered it, in the same way that games where you are basically a mass murderer killing tons of people may affect also people who suffered similar scenarios. So I understand some people may not like the game or may prefer to skip it.

But censorship is awful, creators should be allowed to do whatever they want with their game.
 

FromAshesRise

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
923
I didn't know about all this problems. It is a fair point of view(understanding about the place and issues you are talking about) that I share with you.

As an additional piece of context, note in the trailer that there's a scene in which Kara tells the girl "maybe we were friends at one point but I was reset" - or something to that effect, completely and utterly destroying any relationship the characters may or may not have and completely ruining the characterization and impact of what's going on in the game. It's all just oafishly thrown in there for sake of things. "OMG a little girl is being abused! You need to save her" - is a shitty and cliche device that is most certainly not doing anything to add any intelligent discourse about abuse. In fact, it's so unintelligent, it's offensive.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
"Domestic violence is not a game and this simply trivialises it."

This quote highlights their lack of understanding. The word game in video game still causing issues to this day. People who don't interact with gaming at all who still think it's purely for entertainment to play games and has no higher purpose or potential to do more than just "games".

Basically old man yells a cloud attitude. I cannot possibly see this doing anything and will be upset if it does. It's part of the story and sometimes horrible things happening in real life. It's challenging material for sure. Nobody makes an uproar about all the fiction or fiction based on true stories of depraved child abuse that are popular with women in their 40's or so, but it's ok to tell those stories in books. Make it a game and letting people interact, to actually HELP, and it's somehow sacrilege.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Because he has never done anything right except swindle people into buying his crap?

His games make call of duty campaigns look oscar worthy.

His games are entertaining and that's ok.

That said whether or not he can handle this well is irrelevant to this particular topic. That's a discussion we can have when the game releases with this scene fully intact.
 

Deleted member 643

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,365
Wow, who could have predicted that bad things happen when you get the government's opinion on these things
 

P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,917
Barnsley, UK
Smart people know to ignore the crap the DM spew.

If you're unfamiliar with them....well....their typical output usually revolves around seeking out and posting questionable images of almost certainly underage girls.

Yeah....it's that kind of rag...the kind that shows concern for the children with their left hand while cracking one out with the right.

That's when they're not being awfully racist, homophobic, xenophobic, transphobic, you name it they hate it.

I hope I'm still alive when it all comes crumbling down.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,586
United Kingdom
Some of the shit that is published in the UK. I'm not surprised at this I mean ffs...

71Mcy3SuH0L._SL1024_.jpg
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,268
Damn, might as well just put the actual Amazon link and preorder bonus right in the article lol
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,512
Earth, 21st Century
No doubt this is being perceived in a vacuum (like usual) and the implication that it`s a horrible event you need to stop has been completely lost. Nevermind the fact that Cage`s writing is usually too heavy handed to be taken completely seriously anyway.
 

Luchashaq

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
4,329
His games are entertaining and that's ok.

That said whether or not he can handle this well is irrelevant to this particular topic. That's a discussion we can have when the game releases with this scene fully intact.

Entertaining like watching Trump try to speak coherently in a cringey trainwreck way sure.

Don't get me wrong Cage should legally be allowed to embarrass himself over and over again while lighting Sonys cash on fire.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I'm not going to defend David Cage, I don't feel he has the necessary tools to create a game based on some of the content I've seen.

However, people love Game of Thrones, which has depicted rape and a pregnant woman getting stabbed in the uterus. Have there been politicians coming out against GoT? (I know this comes across as whataboutism, but I'm really curious, not defending Detroit, I think it's going to be a very uncomfortable game).
 

GameBuddy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
94
Hellabama
I don't think David Cage's Eurogamer interview is a positive for him because in context his question makes him sound like a fucking idiot.

Domestic abuse and child abuse is quite extreme as these things go.

David Cage: Let me ask you this question. Would you ask this question to a film director, or to a writer? Would you?

Yes.

David Cage: You would ask the same question?

Yes. I'd ask the same question. Why is it interesting to you? Why did you want to explore domestic abuse and child abuse?

David Cage: Why did I want to do this? For me it's a very strong and moving scene, and I was interested to put the player in the position of this woman. I chose her point of view. If I'd have chosen the point of view of the man it could have been a totally different story and with totally different emotions, but in this case I chose her point of view. There's a context in the story, there's a reason for that - where she comes from and where she's going to go. What's important to me, and what's important in Detroit is to say that a game is as legitimate as a film or a book or a play to explore any topic such as domestic abuse.

He doesn't even answer the question as stated and just says "uh, it's dramatic and part of the story".
 

StoveOven

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
But I thought the right loved free speech and the left were the overly sensitive snowflakes.

In all seriousness though, this pisses me off. It's not because I actually think this will go anywhere (fucking lol at that idea) but because any critic who goes on to criticize the game and the way it depicts scenes like this will automatically by certain groups be lumped in with old, out of touch, scaremongering idiots who don't fully grasp what the concept of a videogame is. Of course they probably would have anyway, but this gives those idiots more to work with and probably broadens the topic to trap other people who would usually have a more rational reaction (or no reaction at all) to games criticism.

It's also is a good example of how limiting the term videogame is. Games in the traditional sense are supposed to be fun and be a challenge. David Cage games (and an increasing number of modern games) don't abide by these rules, but they all get tagged with the videogame label nonetheless. That keeps idiots like this thinking that there are inherent similarities between Gone Home and Monopoly.
 

Mondy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,456
This is what happens when you let Rupert Murdoch dominate your media landscape.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,128
Daily mail would probably prefer if the scene was a photo shoot of a child in a bikini "coming of age".
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
As an additional piece of context, note in the trailer that there's a scene in which Kara tells the girl "maybe we were friends at one point but I was reset" - or something to that effect, completely and utterly destroying any relationship the characters may or may not have and completely ruining the characterization and impact of what's going on in the game. It's all just oafishly thrown in there for sake of things. "OMG a little girl is being abused! You need to save her" - is a shitty and cliche device that is most certainly not doing anything to add any intelligent discourse about abuse. In fact, it's so unintelligent, it's offensive.

But Kara has had a memory reset or is a replacement unit - I can't remember the exact detail without re-watching the trailer. She's responding to the child's familiarity with her as she lacks the memory to provide a suitable response.
 
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