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Cow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Only "most"? You think they're presenting bad data?

I don't, but I do think the person running it is very optimistic. I applaud it, but I would prefer it if a right wing source was showing this. Seat estimates are mostly nonsense. I would like to know how the person running it is coming up with the seat estimates.

The polling data is 100% on point. The seat estimates may or may not be. I don't know. When it comes to this, the left are biased towards labour and the right biased towards Tory. That is why I would put be more relieved if a right wing account was showing this. I generally do not like to follow highly biased left sources.
 

Streamlined

alt account
Banned
Sep 16, 2019
243
I don't, but I do think the person running it is very optimistic. I applaud it, but I would prefer it if a right wing source was showing this. Seat estimates are mostly nonsense. I would like to know how the person running it is coming up with the seat estimates.

The polling data is 100% on point. The seat estimates may or may not be. I don't know. When it comes to this, the left are biased towards labour and the right biased towards Tory. That is why I would put be more relieved if a right wing account was showing this. I generally do not like to follow highly biased left sources.
He's been pretty open about the model he's using, and it's not like his seat estimates are gamed to show better results for Labour. They've been pretty similar to other estimates as far as I'm aware.


It's fairly crude, but there's nothing underhand here.
 

kradical

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
I don't, but I do think the person running it is very optimistic. I applaud it, but I would prefer it if a right wing source was showing this. Seat estimates are mostly nonsense. I would like to know how the person running it is coming up with the seat estimates.

I think his methodology is just UNS.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646

My party had strained to do a deal with Labour in relation to this seat – putting my formal adoption as its candidate on hold for almost two months – but it proved not to be possible. As with so many things, Corbyn was incapable of adapting to changing times and could not see that my party was now every bit as much of a force to be reckoned with as his, if not more. In the EU elections, we not only beat Labour, but also won more seats than them and the Tories combined.

Am I reading this right he wanted Labour to step aside in a seat they hold?
 

kradical

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
God. Good on him for doing this, but Tim Walker is still a massive, massive twat.

Politics does not always have to be grubby and small-minded; sometimes it's possible to acknowledge that what's at stake is more important than party politics – and personal ambition – and we can do what's right.

Yeah, you're a fucking saint mate, now jog off back to The Telegraph.
 
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Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,478
Nothing to see here. There is no anti Islam/Racism issue within the tories.


Twenty-five sitting and former Conservative councillors have been exposed for posting Islamophobic and racist material on social media, according to a dossier obtained by the Guardian that intensifies the row over anti-Muslim sentiment in the party.
The disclosure that 15 current and 10 former Tory councillors have posted, shared or endorsed Islamophobic or other racist content on Facebook or Twitter will increase pressure on Boris Johnson after he backtracked on a pledge to hold an independent inquiry into the issue.

Inflammatory posts recorded in the dossier, which has been sent to the party's headquarters, include calls for mosques to be banned, claims the faith wants to "turn the world Muslim", referring to its followers as "barbarians" and "the enemy within".

In 2017, one councillor, who has been pictured with Johnson, endorsed a suggestion that all aid to Africa helping feed starving people should stop, allowing "mother nature take her course". She replied: "It's nature's way of depopulation."
 

ruttyboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
713

I... don't get it. Ignoring the self-own for a minute, what point is actually he trying to make?

How would 'educating young people about the realities of student loans and repayments' (i.e. it's a fucking nightmare of debt that only seems to be getting worse) not discourage people, and therefore lower the rates of working class people going to uni.?
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,781
I... don't get it. Ignoring the self-own for a minute, what point is actually he trying to make?

How would 'educating young people about the realities of student loans and repayments' (i.e. it's a fucking nightmare of debt that only seems to be getting worse) not discourage people, and therefore lower the rates of working class people going to uni.?
It's not really a nightmare of debt though...

You only pay it back if you're earning enough to afford it. It's effectively just an extra tax for going to uni.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,207
I... don't get it. Ignoring the self-own for a minute, what point is actually he trying to make?

How would 'educating young people about the realities of student loans and repayments' (i.e. it's a fucking nightmare of debt that only seems to be getting worse) not discourage people, and therefore lower the rates of working class people going to uni.?

I mean, in terms of getting people to university we have never had as many working class people going as we do now (or indeed,middle class people as well). Correlation doesn't equal causation, but tuition fees don't seem to have harmed the explosive growth in student numbers at all?
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,442
Chesire, UK


Fuck Tim Walker in general, but in this specific instance:

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ruttyboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
713
It's not really a nightmare of debt though...

You only pay it back if you're earning enough to afford it. It's effectively just an extra tax for going to uni.

So either you aren't successful enough to pay it back (which means you're on less than £19k, is it?) which means your quality of life is pretty low, or basically it's an anchor dragging you back as soon as you do become 'successful' (and £19k ain't that). What a choice.

I mean, in terms of getting people to university we have never had as many working class people going as we do now (or indeed,middle class people as well). Correlation doesn't equal causation, but tuition fees don't seem to have harmed the explosive growth in student numbers at all?
Perhaps because as the lad says there isn't enough education as to the full cost? I suspect that the rise in numbers is more to do with the general feeling pushed by successive governments that a degree is a requirement for a job and is the new normal.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
I mean, in terms of getting people to university we have never had as many working class people going as we do now (or indeed,middle class people as well). Correlation doesn't equal causation, but tuition fees don't seem to have harmed the explosive growth in student numbers at all?

Universities need to admit more students in order to get more funding. They don't actually care if they complete their degrees or not.
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
1,134
He explicitly says in that quote the deal is in reference to that specific seat

I'm not sure it's that explicit, but potato/potato really. Lib Dems wanted to involve Labour in "Remain Alliance" related deals for seats, and Labour weren't interested. It's certainly not in relation to Labour stepping aside in this seat, otherwise Walker's candidacy wouldn't have been delayed because of it.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,243
I... don't get it. Ignoring the self-own for a minute, what point is actually he trying to make?

How would 'educating young people about the realities of student loans and repayments' (i.e. it's a fucking nightmare of debt that only seems to be getting worse) not discourage people, and therefore lower the rates of working class people going to uni.?
Universities have more money than they know what to do with these days. I can understand the argument that cutting university funding or making the tax payer take all the costs may be a negative to someone.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,781
So either you aren't successful enough to pay it back (which means you're on less than £19k, is it?) which means your quality of life is pretty low, or basically it's an anchor dragging you back as soon as you do become 'successful' (and £19k ain't that). What a choice.


Perhaps because as the lad says there isn't enough education as to the full cost? I suspect that the rise in numbers is more to do with the general feeling pushed by successive governments that a degree is a requirement for a job and is the new normal.
Either you aren't successful and it's free, or you are and you pay back what is a relatively tiny sum.

That doesn't sound like a bad choice at all to me.

Also the threshold is currently £25.7k.

And I say this as someone who literally graduated this summer with some £30k of debt. I'm not worried about my debt in the slightest.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
I'm not sure it's that explicit, but potato/potato really. Lib Dems wanted to involve Labour in "Remain Alliance" related deals for seats, and Labour weren't interested. It's certainly not in relation to Labour stepping aside in this seat, otherwise Walker's candidacy wouldn't have been delayed because of it.
"My party had strained to do a deal with Labour in relation to this seat"
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
So either you aren't successful enough to pay it back (which means you're on less than £19k, is it?) which means your quality of life is pretty low, or basically it's an anchor dragging you back as soon as you do become 'successful' (and £19k ain't that). What a choice.


Perhaps because as the lad says there isn't enough education as to the full cost? I suspect that the rise in numbers is more to do with the general feeling pushed by successive governments that a degree is a requirement for a job and is the new normal.

It's not an anchor. It gets taken out of your pay, much like tax, once you earn above the specific threshold.

You're not going to default on it, it's not going to impact your ability to get a loan, and if you stop working then it's forgotten about until you meet the threshold again.

And after 30 years (I think) it's wiped completely.

I do think fees are too high but there is definitely a bit of fearmongering/confusion reigning when fees are brought up.
 

FSP

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,644
London, United Kingdom

Might be either a local ask "if we stand down, can we get a free run at a council seat" or a more national view of "can you stand down in, say, St Ives".

Generally, getting something in return is the point of a negotiation. In this case the candidate ended up having to reluctantly stand down.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,478
So either you aren't successful enough to pay it back (which means you're on less than £19k, is it?) which means your quality of life is pretty low, or basically it's an anchor dragging you back as soon as you do become 'successful' (and £19k ain't that). What a choice.


Perhaps because as the lad says there isn't enough education as to the full cost? I suspect that the rise in numbers is more to do with the general feeling pushed by successive governments that a degree is a requirement for a job and is the new normal.

That is defiently it. The education system itself makes university as the be all and end all.

There needs to be a change in letting young people know that you can have a good quality of life without going to university and there are other options.

Not every child is an academic. There are other careers one can take but the schooling system doesn't really promote that.

I have a 9 year old son and already his mother is adamant that he will go to university but I just can't accept that. He could want different things and their is nothing wrong with that.
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
1,134
"My party had strained to do a deal with Labour in relation to this seat"

I'm really struggling to understand what you're trying to get at here.

If it's just about a specific deal for Canterbury vs. Unite to Remain, I think they both essentially fall under the same umbrella.

If you think it's about the Lib Dems wanting Labour to stand down for the seat, that's completely incompatible with the fact that it was Walker's candidacy that was put on hold.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
That is defiently it. The education system itself makes university as the be and end all.

There needs to be a change in letting young people know that you can have a good quality of life without going to university and there are other options.

Not every child is an academic. There are other careers one can take but the schooling system doesn't really promote that.
Thing is when many employers ask for degrees for jobs that don't need it, you don't have much choice.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
713
Either you aren't successful and it's free, or you are and you pay back what is a relatively tiny sum.

That doesn't sound like a bad choice at all to me.

Also it's currently £25.7k.

Also, I say this as someone who literally graduated this summer with some £30k of debt.
Ah, apologies, I didn't know they'd changed the threshold, better, but I suspect that's a starting point on a much higher lump sum to pay.

You think your £30k is a relatively tiny sum? What's the total lifetime cost going to be of that, given that all signs seem to point that the interest rates will only go up for every new generation of students. It's basically a mortgage before you even try to get an actual mortgage. Everyone's going to be living with their parents forever. At least that's how it seems to me.
 
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