Unless you're a minority, you don't really understand what racism is

[Powdered Egg]

how many here know that Swedish people used to oppress Finnish people? ruling over us for centuries, forcing religion on us, measuring our skulls etc etc, the whole deal basically (except straight up slavery).

im 36 and i only learned about the whole extent of it a few years ago lol, and it fucking angered me, reading about some of the details raised my blood pressure im sure.. and it was AGES ago, yet it still managed to get to me... it gave me some slight idea of how people currently oppressed feel, i guess. i probably wouldn't be able to handle it without lashing out at everyone, personally experiencing constant discrimination based on my ethnicity would mess me up, badly.

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Didn't know that! Knowing one's ethnic history compounds everything and compounds the anger. It's bad enough that one's lineage could be enslaved for generations, but America sings "Equality" from the mountaintops... while STILL! oppressing descendants of slaves and other ethnic minorities... while the White majority relegates your consistently bad racial experiences in this country as fiction.

 

[Bishop89]

There's a difference between knowing something on an intellectual level because you choose to explore it and it's a different matter entirely to have your whole life and subconscious functioning shaped over it against your will. You can never understand the full weight of the latter if you haven't personally experienced it.

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I somewhat agree and disagree at the same time. Racism is essentially a form of bullying, being picked on because your different etc..
So even if someone isn't racially abused they could still feel the same (or similar) to someone who is.

 

[Kanhir]

It's not just them treating you differently one one occasion. You get treated differently once and it sticks with you for a while. Eventually you start to think of everyone differently and question every interaction you have. You can't let your guard down and you don't feel relaxed becausesociety has said that you are the other and you are the inferior.
Growing up as a minority is very different than just going to a place and being treated differently. The realisation that you aren't the same as the people around you and they think you're worse than they are is pretty awful for a child. As an adult you can deal with that, you understand it, but what op said about it happening to children who's entire worldview revolves around their school is a prime example of the way racism can be engrained in a society. You don't get that when visiting China for a week or spending a few days in Morocco

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I realise I was probably unclear - by "spend some time" I didn't mean go there for a holiday. I meant live there for a significant enough period of time that you get past the honeymoon period and realise how the passive racism impacts your everyday life.

For example, like many who were casual teenage weebs, I lived in small-town Japan for quite a long time during/after college. The Japanese are famous for their politeness and hospitality towards white people...and the reason for that is because they treat white people as a temporary novelty/commodity. This changes significantly when you're living there in the long term, side by side with them, trying to integrate into their society.
To be clear, integration into Japanese society at the level of a Japanese person is not possible for a white person. Period. You will always be a second-class citizen who is either babied ("oh, you can use chopsticks!" x100) or ignored/avoided (I had one shopkeeper who nearly burst into tears whenever I walked in), and there's nothing you can do about it because society has ingrained in them that you are not like them because you do not look like them. There's very definitely a point where the bubble bursts, the everyday othering starts to wear you down, and you either a) decide to live in cloud-cuckoo-land and fool yourself into thinking everything is fine, or b) face facts and realise that the highest goal you can aim for is basic acceptance as a fellow human.
(This isn't helped by the media, where foreigners are only brought on as a curiosity and are encouraged to play up the "silly foreigner with broken Japanese" angle. Far from elevating you, it lowers you both societally and psychologically.)

Still, I can see how it would be totally different for a child who doesn't understand why it's happening. That would be incredibly traumatic and I can understand how it would shape your entire life. However, would you apply the same logic to non-white immigrants coming to live in white-majority countries (e.g. a Moroccan coming to live in Poland)? Would you tell them they don't understand racism because they didn't grow up there? Just because you didn't experience racism your whole life doesn't mean you don't experience racism; it just manifests and affects you in a different way.

 

[Deleted member 22875]

I find a lot of your thinking seems to ignore the reality of the world around us and the people that live in it. Just the fact you tell the OP to give people "expectations" and not excuses doesn't even make sense. We live in a world where people ignore what's right in front of their face because an orange bigot with delusions of grandeur told them so. A lot of people don't tive a fuck about expectations or excuses when they consider you sub human to begin with.

These people never "gave up" on anything. This has been something they've stood behind for a long fucking time now. One of the reasons things are getting so ugly right now is that the white majority is going to become a minority for the first time and they're starting to feel in tiny part the very same things that the people they've oppressed for so long have lived with for generations and it scares them fucking shitless.

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And most of that energy is fabricated, artificial, stirred up to distract from the wholesale looting and corruption and endless externalized murder and plunder the country is engaged in.

Definitely tangible things to be concerned about. What isn't worth your time is the existential black hole of wanting to be fully understood or caring that no one can fully understand you. Not every perspective that opposes yours is attempting to lead you astray, not every human that hasn't experienced your specific perspective is lacking an ability to construct you a beneficent alternative.

It may not feel that way, but I assure you with whatever authenticity I can manage to convey via the detachment of this medium that I do speak for the perspective of the suffering and disadvantaged. Detachment comes from overexposure, your emotion is important and necessary...just direct it down viable paths not cognitive traps.

 

[Forsaken82]

Maybe I am misreading your post, but I get this impression that you are saying that even though I am a jewish white male who was attacked by nazi skinhead teenagers in middle school and continued to deal with related prejudices throughout highschool, am incapable of empathizing with those suffering through racial prejudice because I am white?

 

[Muu]

Good post OP. You hear a lot of white people traveling to Japan and wondering why they are always treated like an outsider -- well there you go, it's the experience of being an ethnic minority that isn't in power in that country. I do wonder sometimes how many of those people end up changing their perspective on how minorities should be treated once they go back to their home country, or if they fail to go beyond the fact that they weren't accepted in that given society.

I also say this in every thread like this one, but if you want to become a minority w/o moving or changing skin color, look no further than adopting road biking as a hobby. In an area where there's few cyclists on the road the infrastructure isn't there, folks on pickup trucks will routinely try to kill you for fun, and you'll get the minority experience of being held up as the representative cyclist person who everyone bitches to you about the stupid shit some other yahoo on a bike's done, or worse, how they hit and run someone and it was their fault and you're supposed to laugh. Even in a cyclist-heavy area they're a minority compared to just about everyone that drives (which would usually include yourself when you're not riding), same shit happens but with significantly more "those damn cyclist need to learn (stop sign) (ignore lights) (whatever else)." And yes, you'll usually hear about this but don't worry, you're one of the good ones. Sounds familiar, right?

 

[BossAttack]

Amen, brother.

 

[Like the hat?]

I was one of only a handful of non-latinx white kids in my elementary school, and i got bullied daily because of it. In my more ignorant time I admit i fell into the trap of thinking that this was racism against me but i realize now, no shit minority kids would have disdain for me because i was white. I'm not going to say that i wish i would have been treated better or more like anyone else in the school, but i am much more aware of why now.

As a white man living in the us, no, i have no idea how it feels, and to pretend i did would be an insult.

 

[Kanhir]

Good post OP. You hear a lot of white people traveling to Japan and wondering why they are always treated like an outsider -- well there you go, it's the experience of being an ethnic minority that isn't in power in that country. I do wonder sometimes how many of those people end up changing their perspective on how minorities should be treated once they go back to their home country, or if they fail to go beyond the fact that they weren't accepted in that given society.

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That's something I always wondered too. For me it was very eye-opening to see life from the other side, and it's given me pause in pretty much all of my interactions since then (ethnicity isn't just about skin colour in Europe, as the Finnish person has pointed out, and it's easy to miss something).

But I can absolutely see how someone could just come back and "resume from the old save point", so to speak - label it as a negative experience and block it out, rather than letting it inform how they live their lives from then on. It's a massive pity, but I guess it speaks to human psychology.

 

[Shahed]

Maybe I am misreading your post, but I get this impression that you are saying that even though I am a jewish white male who was attacked by nazi skinhead teenagers in middle school and continued to deal with related prejudices throughout highschool, am incapable of empathizing with those suffering through racial prejudice because I am white?

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Not at all. I had the title changed and removed the ethnic part. As a Jew, you're a minority and will be subjected to racism. I made post on the previous page about it

I was one of only a handful of non-latinx white kids in my elementary school, and i got bullied daily because of it. In my more ignorant time I admit i fell into the trap of thinking that this was racism against me but i realize now, no shit minority kids would have disdain for me because i was white. I'm not going to say that i wish i would have been treated better or more like anyone else in the school, but i am much more aware of why now.

As a white man living in the us, no, i have no idea how it feels, and to pretend i did would be an insult.

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What you experienced was racism too. You may be in the so called privileged white male class in general, but within that school you were a minority

 

[Thebeast!]

I realise I was probably unclear - by "spend some time" I didn't mean go there for a holiday. I meant live there for a significant enough period of time that you get past the honeymoon period and realise how the passive racism impacts your everyday life.

For example, like many who were casual teenage weebs, I lived in small-town Japan for quite a long time during/after college. The Japanese are famous for their politeness and hospitality towards white people...and the reason for that is because they treat white people as a temporary novelty/commodity. This changes significantly when you're living there in the long term, side by side with them, trying to integrate into their society.
To be clear, integration into Japanese society at the level of a Japanese person is not possible for a white person. Period. You will always be a second-class citizen who is either babied ("oh, you can use chopsticks!" x100) or ignored/avoided (I had one shopkeeper who nearly burst into tears whenever I walked in), and there's nothing you can do about it because society has ingrained in them that you are not like them because you do not look like them. There's very definitely a point where the bubble bursts, the everyday othering starts to wear you down, and you either a) decide to live in cloud-cuckoo-land and fool yourself into thinking everything is fine, or b) face facts and realise that the highest goal you can aim for is basic acceptance as a fellow human.
(This isn't helped by the media, where foreigners are only brought on as a curiosity and are encouraged to play up the "silly foreigner with broken Japanese" angle. Far from elevating you, it lowers you both societally and psychologically.)

Still, I can see how it would be totally different for a child who doesn't understand why it's happening. That would be incredibly traumatic and I can understand how it would shape your entire life. However, would you apply the same logic to non-white immigrants coming to live in white-majority countries (e.g. a Moroccan coming to live in Poland)? Would you tell them they don't understand racism because they didn't grow up there? Just because you didn't experience racism your whole life doesn't mean you don't experience racism; it just manifests and affects you in a different way.

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Why did the store keeper cry ?

 

[Kanhir]

Why did the store keeper cry ?

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He was afraid to speak English to me, because his English was crap. When he did speak to me, he broke out in sweats and started talking to himself between sentences in Japanese like "what do I do, what do I do...".
(I actively spoke Japanese to him, and could easily have handled all of our interactions through Japanese. This didn't seem to matter - everyone knows white people don't speak Japanese.)

 

[Thebeast!]

He was afraid to speak English to me, because his English was crap. When he did speak to me, he broke out in sweats and started talking to himself between sentences in Japanese like "what do I do, what do I do...".
(I actively spoke Japanese to him, and could easily have handled all of our interactions through Japanese. This didn't seem to matter - everyone knows white people don't speak Japanese.)

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Wow

 

[crienne]

I'm half-Mexican, but super white-passing.

Growing up, however, my Hispanic half was easier to see at first glance.

I was proud of my heritage and was happy to be a latino at my school in a suburb of Phoenix, AZ. There really weren't as many as there should've been considering the ethnic makeup of Phoenix, and that led to a lot of bullying. I was called "wetback" more times than I can count, and was physically threatened because of my race.

As I grew up and started to look more white, the slur of choice for some people became "moistback" ("Get it, cause you're only half-wet?"). I even had friends that would "lovingly" refer to me as "wetback" and "spic" and "our Mexican". I carried that with me for years, and had to listen to people, including members of the non-Hispanic side of my family, rant and rave about illegals ruining our wonderful country.

"Hey, you do know I'm part Mexican, right?"

"Oh, yeah, but you're one of the good ones!"

This sort of experience makes it super easy to relate to other minorities that are affected by racism, but I also understand that I had it light compared to many, many others.

During my time in New York, I met three multi-racial siblings (white dad, black mom) that grew up in the Deep South. They told me stories of threats of violence, hearing the n-word thrown at them as if it's nothing, and having to walk with their mom far behind their dad during outings, hoping nobody would put 2 and 2 together.

What they experienced made my childhood seem like rainbows and happy times all around. Still, after sharing stories, they felt just as bad for me as I did for them and I realized that shared experiences, no matter their severity, make it that much easier to empathize. You don't have to understand the details of the racism minorities experience, but you better damn well understand that it's an institutional problem that everyone needs to work together to solve.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

I somewhat agree and disagree at the same time. Racism is essentially a form of bullying, being picked on because your different etc..
So even if someone isn't racially abused they could still feel the same (or similar) to someone who is.

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Well that's an incredibly disingenuous way to reduce what racism is. Bullying is just one specific way racism is expressed. It goes WAAAAAAAAAY further than that.

 

[DOT_mjo]

Say it louder for the people in the back.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

I'll also provide an addendum to the discussion:

Just because you are minority, does not give the authority to tone-police racist/prejudicial treatment targeting that one specific group.

Specifically, if you are not a black person, do not think you have the gall to speak on things that only affect that community, and then when faced with criticism, attempt to shield yourself by playing the "But I'm a minority....." card.

Obviously this applies to black individuals as well discussing racial matters well beyond their knowledge and specific to another group.

 

[samoyed]

Oh no, you told a privileged group they aren't capable of something.

Godspeed, my friend.

 

[Shahed]

I somewhat agree and disagree at the same time. Racism is essentially a form of bullying, being picked on because your different etc..
So even if someone isn't racially abused they could still feel the same (or similar) to someone who is.

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Violent and verbally abusive racism is a form of bullying. And while I'm not diminishing the effects and actions bullying, they are related to mainly specific events, and specific people. Usually those of questionable character. The act of bullying or abusive racism is worse that most events, but it's also not that common, and also can be punished.

The type of racism I was more referring to is not overt. It's not punishable because not much was really done wrong. These aren't bad people doing them. But they're also not singular events, or with a few people. These are everday occurences that commonly happen by pretty much anyone, even if they are unaware of it.

People are unaware of it and don't even realise the hidden racism present, and as it's not punishable due to not being a bad act, nothing happens. But then as a kid you see stuff happening around you. Maybe feeling isolated in certain ways, and then singled out others. And then you look around you at all the authority figures such as adults, teachers and so on, and they treat it as normal and think nothing untoward of it. With bullying it's acknowledged as bad and called out, but if this treatment isn't called out but instead acted out, it normalises it. As a child you feel something is wrong, but no one says it's wrong. It makes you doubt yourself.

 

[HyGogg]

I think it's an overreach to say one can't understand what racism is, but certainly as a white person it's very difficult to appreciate just how pervasive it is and how often it happens. I think a lot of implicit bias and "unintentional" racism is especially invisible to those not directly on the receiving end.

I've learned to recognize a lot of this stuff by proxy through friends and loved ones but if not for them I would totally miss a lot of it and I still do miss some of it.

 

[Jpop]

Absolutely true.

 

[Twilight Suzuka]

I'm a minority and I disagree with the claim made in the headline.

I like to give more credit to people and their ability to think and imagine things. The human brain is capable of figuring out modern science, and putting a person on the moon and curing diseases. I think smart people are capable of imagining something they haven't directly experienced.

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I was one of only a handful of non-latinx white kids in my elementary school, and i got bullied daily because of it. In my more ignorant time I admit i fell into the trap of thinking that this was racism against me but i realize now, no shit minority kids would have disdain for me because i was white. I'm not going to say that i wish i would have been treated better or more like anyone else in the school, but i am much more aware of why now.

As a white man living in the us, no, i have no idea how it feels, and to pretend i did would be an insult.

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without knowing the state of racial tensions in your area:

In middle or high school, I could buy it being a considered reaction to what they see in wider society, but that stuff is just following the herd when you're younger, young kids are absolute devilish shits at teaming up and exploiting differences in people

If brushing off your ill treatment as something that should be happening or something that's expected because of the things that people who share your skin colour have done is something that's helped you rationalise your ill treatment and made you feel better then shit, keep going I guess

 

[NoName999]

I feel like some are getting hung up on just the title of the thread, rather than the content of the post.

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It ALWAYS happens

 

[Nephtis]

The funny thing is that most of the racism I have experienced has been at the hands of the people who are against racism.

Like, I say something and I'm being treated as if I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know the hardships, the expectations, etc. They wanna hold my hand and explain it all to me. Fuck out of here with that. I rather have someone call me a beaner or wetback than have to put up with it.

 

[devSin]

That's like saying you can't understand racism unless you're racist. Technically true, but still superficial.

You can't automatically understand it from the perspective of a victim. But the fundamentals are pretty easy for anyone to grasp (it just requires effort and the willingness to see past your own privilege).

 

[SugarNoodles]

False. You don't have to experience something to know it.

I've never been shot by a gun. I know it hurts. My having never been shot doesn't diminish that knowledge. I can't tell you how being penetrated by a bullet feels exactly but I know it isn't pleasant.

Not knowing how experiencing racism directed at you would effect you personally doesn't mean you don't know it.

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That's a really reductive view on the matter. Understanding that racism is bad or that it feels unpleasant to be the target doesn't mean that there is any depth to your understanding.

 

[Afro_Ninja]

good post

I grow up watching women holding strong to their purse when I was around because I'm black.
EVEN with my mother with me, it doesn't matter, they looked at me as a threat, a 6, 7 years old child.

And you grow up with this, their behavior change when you are in high school, then change again at your work, but they are always there to remind you that for some people, you don't belong there.

 

[stone616]

That's a really reductive view on the matter. Understanding that racism is bad or that it feels unpleasant to be the target doesn't mean that there is any depth to your understanding.

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It also doesn't mean there's not any depth to it. You can understand racism just fine not being a minority.

It is true that for many people in the world if they don't experience or get affected by something they don't really understand or care about it but that's not a universal truth.

 

[samoyed]

It also doesn't mean there's not any depth to it. You can understand racism just fine not being a minority.

It is true that for many people in the world if they don't experience or get affected by something they don't really understand or care about it but that's not a universal truth.

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The likelihood of someone having depth of understanding of any given topic is extremely low, while possessing a shallow understanding is very high, if not the norm, for the average person in the world.

Until proven otherwise it's a safe bet to assume ignorance.

Which is why the claim that non-minorities can "understand racism" just fine is ludicrous. Might as well say you can understand economics just fine without being an economist. You're hedging your bets on 1:100 odds. I remember that dumb thread about the "definition" of racism with people boiling it down to a single sentence. I mean, yeah, the vast majority of people are capable of believing that they understand a topic, especially when they reduce that topic to its most simplistic form, but that is entirely different from understanding a thing in a meaningful way.

Being able to cite the dictionary definition of "racism" does not mean you "understand racism". I saw another post either here or in another thread saying something to the effect of "racism is basically racial motivated bullying" and I'm like:

 

[ginger ninja]

Absolutely haram. 100% false.

And I say that as a minority. Discrimination and bigotry extends beyond race.

 

[stone616]

The likelihood of someone having depth of understanding of any given topic is extremely low, while possessing a shallow understanding is very high, if not the norm, for the average person in the world.

Until proven otherwise it's a safe bet to assume ignorance.

Which is why the claim that non-minorities can "understand racism" just fine is ludicrous. Might as well say you can understand economics just fine without being an economist. You're hedging your bets on 1:100 odds. I remember that dumb thread about the "definition" of racism with people boiling it down to a single sentence. I mean, yeah, the vast majority of people are capable of believing that they understand a topic, especially when they reduce that topic to its most simplistic form, but that is entirely different from understanding a thing in a meaningful way.

Being able to cite the dictionary definition of "racism" does not mean you "understand racism". I saw another post either here or in another thread saying something to the effect of "racism is basically racial motivated bullying" and I'm like:

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Look at the bigger picture. Racism isn't as unique as you'd like to portray. Race is simply one of many targets to a logical equation all humans are capable of understanding.

The logic is this "I am X and they are Y. X and Y are different. Because Y is different I hate Y."

You can put religion in that equation or gender or sexuality, age, or really any human difference in that equation and the underlying logic is still the same. Race isn't a scared cow it's just one of the many differences people hate others for.

So yes one can have a deep understanding of racism and not be a minority.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Absolutely haram. 100% false.

And I say that as a minority. Discrimination and bigotry extends beyond race.

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Did you read the thread?

From the OP:

If you are not said minority, you probably have no idea at the common place racism that happens, or if made aware, can't fully emphasise since you don't experience it, and thus may gloss over and dismiss certain action as not being racist. While I can't profess personal knowledge in these areas (I am a straight Asian male), as an extension to not really knowing what racism is, unless you're a woman or part of the LGBT community, you likely have no idea of the everyday sexism, discrimination and demeaning attitudes they face either. But since I can't fully comment on those, I'll stick to racism here

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[Deleted member 6573]

.

 

[Ogodei]

Slight nitpick, it's not to say that you can't understand it being a minority, you can't understand it being part of an oppressed group (which are majorities in some countries, like blacks in South Africa who can still face discrimination by whites, or how the racial hierarchy still present in Latin America favors tiny white minorities and larger Mestizo minorities in some cases against Mestizo or Native majorities).

Or in Saddam's Iraq, for instance, prejudice was against the Shiites despite being the majority.

Doesn't go against your overall point, just to say your group doesn't need to be a minority group to be oppressed in a given country.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm pretty sure the word "minority" is being used in a sociopolitical context to mean "any demographic that lacks political and cultural power relative to others" and not "numerically smaller than."

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Nah , I think they can get it
But the experience is always an eye opener

 

[jviggy43]

I think it's fair to say that non minorities will never understand the experience of what racism is but to suggest they can never understand racism the phenomenon and what it means is wrong.

 

[FTF]

I've grown to understand and appreciate this. Reminds me of that Southpark episode where Stan was like I finally get it that I don't get it.

 

[RedMercury]

Specifically, if you are not a black person, do not think you have the gall to speak on things that only affect that community, and then when faced with criticism, attempt to shield yourself by playing the "But I'm a minority....." card.

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Do you have any examples of this?

 

[Enzom21]

I'm a minority and I disagree with the claim made in the headline.

I like to give more credit to people and their ability to think and imagine things. The human brain is capable of figuring out modern science, and putting a person on the moon and curing diseases. I think smart people are capable of imagining something they haven't directly experienced.

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You can imagine what it is like to fly like Superman but that doesn't mean you know what it feels like. What if it's a little painful, or what if it's like a constant orgasm? You don't know because you haven't experienced it yourself. True understanding comes from experience not imagination.

 

[SugarNoodles]

It also doesn't mean there's not any depth to it. You can understand racism just fine not being a minority.

It is true that for many people in the world if they don't experience or get affected by something they don't really understand or care about it but that's not a universal truth.

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Why are you bringing up caring about racism? That's not at all relevant to what's being discussed here. This is about the fact that a person's understanding of something is limited when they haven't experienced it.

 

[stone616]

Why are you bringing up caring about racism? That's not at all relevant to what's being discussed here. This is about the fact that a person's understanding of something is limited when they haven't experienced it.

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Racism as I've already explained is simply general human hatred of the unknown/different targeted at a persons race. That hatred could be targeted at anything else as well.

There is no enlightenment in being targeted by human hatred because of the color of your skin. There isn't anything more to learn by being on the recieving end of human hatred for any reason. When people hate you they will do and say despicable things.

Every person alive has probably been the target of the hatred of another person. I'm asking as a minority myself here what is the unique knowledge gained from being targeted by hatred for the color of your skin other that they way you feel about being the target of it ie your level of caring?

Like I said the logic a racist uses is very familiar to all human beings. It is simply the target that changes in the equation. I've watched people the same hue as me take the logic a racist uses and redirect it at a person for sexuality or gender for example. If anything focusing on the target of the logic blinds one to the fact that the logic can be almost universal.

 

[julia crawford]

IMO true and the difference between having to make an effort to be aware of these things and the experience of being someone whose contact with these things is so thoroughly quotidian and unavoidable makes for learning experiences that are really not comparable in the first place. I make an effort to constantly ask things like "do you think it's because you're asian/black" or "do you think it's because you're a woman" or "do you think it's because you're poor" (as living in a relatively ethnically homogeneous community, class is by and large the most popular kind of discrimination), and i've noticed that keeping this level of attention is exhausting in a very different way than that which affects the discriminated. So there's never really a point of true equity... but i have no choice. Some of my best friends are not white nor men, so i must make an effort to know what they experience and how i can be better at being a positive asset in their lives.

 

[Sadsic]

Racism as I've already explained is simply general human hatred of the unknown/different targeted at a persons race. That hatred could be targeted at anything else as well.

There is no enlightenment in being targeted by human hatred because of the color of your skin. There isn't anything more to learn by being on the recieving end of human hatred for any reason. When people hate you they will do and say despicable things.

Every person alive has probably been the target of the hatred of another person. I'm asking as a minority myself here what is the unique knowledge gained from being targeted by hatred for the color of your skin other that they way you feel about being the target of it ie your level of caring?

Like I said the logic a racist uses is very familiar to all human beings. It is simply the target that changes in the equation. I've watched people the same hue as me take the logic a racist uses and redirect it at a person for sexuality or gender for example. If anything focusing on the target of the logic blinds one to the fact that the logic can be almost universal.

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There is a difference between bias against your body that you cannot control and bias against your ideology/sexual identity/religion etc

Like if you just go outside, unless you are wearing something that points out your ideology/sexual identity/religion like the LGBT flag, a hijab or a MAGA hat, no one is gonna know you are those things, so you can control whether or not people know this about you. You won't experience the bias against those forms of human identity unless you want to/are forced to.

If you are a visible minority, such as black or asian, everyone knows your racial identity without any internal control, so you will be bombarded with bias in a way few other forms of human identity can control for -- it's something that forms the entire identity of a person from subconscious to conscious choices, and is hard to fathom if you don't experience it yourself. I'm white myself so I'm not sure of what the full extent of what dealing with this on a day-to-day basis is like, but I imagine it shapes your personality in a way that I cannot really understand

 

[jwk94]

can't fully emphasise since you don't experience it,

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What about mixed race couples who have to experience racist BS from passerbys or relatives? Or what if you have a mixed race kid and your family wants nothing to do with them and you because of that?

 

[Deleted member 8593]

I'd extend it to all forms of discrimination. I've considered myself a feminist for years but it wasn't until my girlfriend talked about everyday interactions when I realized how little I actually understand. Even though I am an ethnic minority and have always had to deal with the kind of bullshit that comes with it, it's another level altogether.

 

[Airegin]

Like I'll be queuing to pay for stuff at a till, and I'll get a different look or initial glance to the other customers from the cashier. They'll say the same pleasantries and stuff, and serve me fine, and things carry on as normal. That person isn't necessarily a racist or a bad person, but that look still happened.

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I'm asking because I want to learn: how do you tell if this look may not have another reason? I deal with customers all the time and I'm sure I give off a certain vibe because I'm in a dark place and often fake niceness.

 

[ishan]

I can agree but then also as a brown person as America when my perspective as a brown person is respected why isn't my perspective and opinions as one off the opposite side in India (upper class) not respected . I've seen both sides . But if I posit one side of hey this is my world view I've been on both ends of the spectrum think about it ? I'm a centerist idiot who doesn't understand anything ?


Era has a very liberal bent at times too much so . It is simply unwilling to listen to the other side via members and somewhat moderation also

 

[ishan]

Evidently I'm a sell out instead of being a rational person who can think and make argument but whatever to each their own