dr_octagon

Member
Dec 31, 2017
240
OP, is there anything else apart from you making a commentary you would like others to take away from this thread (beyond the point you've explained)?

is your message don't comment / you have limited or no understanding / others cannot add value to the discussion / similar or shared experiences are not sufficient?

I can't empathise with a disabled person and not all disabilities are the same.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
I can agree but then also as a brown person as America when my perspective as a brown person is respected why isn't my perspective and opinions as one off the opposite side in India (upper class) not respected . I've seen both sides . But if I posit one side of hey this is my world view I've been on both ends of the spectrum think about it ? I'm a centerist idiot who doesn't understand anything ?


Era has a very liberal bent at times too much so . It is simply unwilling to listen to the other side via members and somewhat moderation also
What's "the other side" regarding the issue of race and racism?
 

Enzom21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,989
I can agree but then also as a brown person as America when my perspective as a brown person is respected why isn't my perspective and opinions as one off the opposite side in India (upper class) not respected . I've seen both sides . But if I posit one side of hey this is my world view I've been on both ends of the spectrum think about it ? I'm a centerist idiot who doesn't understand anything ?


Era has a very liberal bent at times too much so . It is simply unwilling to listen to the other side via members and somewhat moderation also
Can you give some examples of what you're talking about?
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
What's "the other side" regarding the issue of race and racism?

Can you give some examples of what you're talking about?

I can . I live in central pa for my studies. Mostly its a college town and most ppl are nice. Many of my friends are republicans some single issue voters on abortion etc or guns etc . There is no convincing them but in general nice ppl

Now have i faced racism in my years here yes, absolutely , some moron once in a year or two shows up who tries to tell me my place in a bar i just brush it off imo hes just an idiot.

recently tho someone who was an acquaintance who became a trump supporter tried to tell me im taking advantage of some loophole i was like no im qualified. he would have none of it . So now when i see him i interact but am polite


.....

now back in india im upper middle class but im upper caste. In my undergrad years my friend and me used to go back in our car and my driver at times just went this guy doesnt know how to speak cause hes lower caste. I was like wtf.

So those are two examples ive seen both sides. I see it deal with both of it on both spectrums.

EDIT: to infinite there are ppl who have been on both ends of discrimination ... and sometimes we maybe we have something very pertinent to contribute to the discussion.
 

Mariachi507

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,434
Yeah. I'm aware of the concept of racism and that it occurs everywhere. I'm able to identify it, and everyday I try to become more aware of the various ways racism happens. However, despite my attempts to empathize, I'll never truly know how it feels to be on the receiving end. Sure, there are people out there that hate white people, but that's just a small part of it. Society is set up in my favor meaning I'm basically going through life with cheat mode turned on.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
I can . I live in central pa for my studies. Mostly its a college town and most ppl are nice. Many of my friends are republicans some single issue voters on abortion etc or guns etc . There is no convincing them but in general nice ppl

Now have i faced racism in my years here yes, absolutely , some moron once in a year or two shows up who tries to tell me my place in a bar i just brush it off imo hes just an idiot.

recently tho someone who was an acquaintance who became a trump supporter tried to tell me im taking advantage of some loophole i was like no im qualified. he would have none of it . So now when i see him i interact but am polite


.....

now back in india im upper middle class but im upper caste. In my undergrad years my friend and me used to go back in our car and my driver at times just went this guy doesnt know how to speak cause hes lower caste. I was like wtf.

So those are two examples ive seen both sides. I see it deal with both of it on both spectrums.

EDIT: to infinite there are ppl who have been on both ends of discrimination ... and sometimes we maybe we have something very pertinent to contribute to the discussion.
What are both ends of discrimination and what things for example can people on the other contribute
 
OP
OP
Shahed

Shahed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
842
UK, Newcastle
When I say people are not able to understand racism, I don't necessarily mean the outward obvious type. Where hatred is involved and it's physically and/or verbally abusive. That's obvious and easily understood

I'm referring to the subtle unconscious racism. It'll be happening in front is some people, and they won't be aware of it. How being on the end of this type of racism can affect you, make you think differently, and thus approach matters in certain ways.

I'm pretty sure the word "minority" is being used in a sociopolitical context to mean "any demographic that lacks political and cultural power relative to others" and not "numerically smaller than."

Yeah. I just had to pick a word for the title that first closest.

Nah , I think they can get it
But the experience is always an eye opener

It's an eye opener that the majority of people will never experience. Never mind these aren't one and done isolated incidents. The feelings can linger in the recipient

What about mixed race couples who have to experience racist BS from passerbys or relatives? Or what if you have a mixed race kid and your family wants nothing to do with them and you because of that?

Well then they'd qualify. Substitute minority for anyone who doesn't belong to the norm. The people closest to them will also feel the effects

I'd extend it to all forms of discrimination. I've considered myself a feminist for years but it wasn't until my girlfriend talked about everyday interactions when I realized how little I actually understand. Even though I am an ethnic minority and have always had to deal with the kind of bullshit that comes with it, it's another level altogether.

Oh yeah absolutely. This applies to more than just racism, but to pretty much any kind of discrimination. I touched on it on my OP, but since I won't be on the receiving end of sexism, homophobia and so on, I didn't feel it was my place to address the issue since I have no experience in it. Only second hand by proxy

I'm asking because I want to learn: how do you tell if this look may not have another reason? I deal with customers all the time and I'm sure I give off a certain vibe because I'm in a dark place and often fake niceness.

Because you can see other people not get that look, but then you do. What if it's just me for a different reason? But then you see other people who are different get the same looks, and people who are 'normal' don't. It's not a blanket rule, but there is a trend, and you learn to recognise the look. While it doesn't happen as much as it used to, it's still fairly common. It doesn't bother me anymore compared to when i was younger, but I'm still aware of it.

These people aren't necessarily bad people. In the end it's just an initial glance, or first slight tone on first word in greeting. They then serve you fine, respectfully and you move on as usual. Just sometimes there's a split second to almost recover before they treat you with a friendly approach like any other

OP, is there anything else apart from you making a commentary you would like others to take away from this thread (beyond the point you've explained)?

is your message don't comment / you have limited or no understanding / others cannot add value to the discussion / similar or shared experiences are not sufficient?

I can't empathise with a disabled person and not all disabilities are the same.

Not at all to the bolded. Just because someone may be incapable of completely and fully comprehending, doesn't mean they don't have any understanding at all. they can still contribute a lot to any discussions or similar experiences.

The takeaway I'd really want is for people to get that racism will happen more often than they realise. Sometimes right in front of their own eyes and potentially by themselves , but they won't even know it's happening because it's so common place in little ways, and thus will be unaware. That doesn't mean said people are bad or cruel, it's an unconscious act and not deliberate in anyway. But whatever the reason, the recipient may notice they've been subject to racism, however minute it was. The majority (like 99%) will never call it out since it's ever present and they're used to it.

What I want is for people to not deny it when it is called out. Yes I know this is difficult since they were unaware of it, and because it can require a certain amount of self reflection and awareness people may not wish to have. But I've seen it all over, even here on ERA, where there are articles about someone believing they were subject to racism, and people defending it as not racism. Either by glossing over it, or attributing it to other reasons and causes. I believe the main reason people do this, is because if they realise that the certain words or actions are racism, then they'd need to re-evaluate the actions and words of friends, family and even themselves, and potentially judge them as racist occurrences too.

That is not a rabbit hole people want to go down because it leads to further problems, but if the initial act being discussed can be attributed to something other than racism (or any kind of discrimination), then they can remain safe in their own conscience. But denying things doesn't help anything in the long run. It's only by accepting things as they are, can people and society then learn from it and move on to something better. But denial and deflection is still to often the response to acts of discrimination, however minor they may be
 

SaviourMK2

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
CT
I feel like when it's phrased like that you somewhat backhand the people who want to support you.
I don't know what it's like to panic when a cop pulls me over nor do I know what it's like to have an entire group centered around the idea of killing/lynching me for simply existing.

But I have been bullied throughout my entire childhood, rejected from jobs because of my size/weight, on at least 2 occasions been accused of being a white trash racist because I dropped a customer's change while trying to hand it to them and have on multiple occasions been told by my own father in the heat of moments how my existence ruined his life and was worthless. I know the pain of being shit on just for being.
I understand racism, I've just never experienced it to the degree others have and I'm aware that the imbalance exists.
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
You're downplaying the experience. You gain so much more understanding if you actually go through it.

It's like saying you know all about sex because you watch a ton of porn but you're still a virgin.

It's funny, but I was a virgin well into my twenties, but my friends all came to me for advice on sex stuff regarding their girlfriends and hookups, and it worked too lol. They always mentioned how I was "spot on" with my advice, and I hadn't even gotten laid once in my life yet xD Even their girlfriends sometimes asked me stuff.

Sorry, that was offtopic, but on topic I think you can't fully understand what it's like to face racism no matter how good of an empath you are if you haven't faced it yourself.
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
Racism as I've already explained is simply general human hatred.

There is no enlightenment in being targeted by human hatred because of color

Every person alive has probably been the target of the hatred of another person.

If anything focusing on the target of the logic blinds one to the fact that the logic can be almost universal.
Marlo said it best:

tumblr_m8p3hwTuaT1qdato8o2_250.gif


The way where you are an insightful man dropping dem wisdom bombs in a sleepy echo chamber.

tumblr_mzjk45sBoJ1qbtvygo2_250.gif


The way where OP is right :)

And not just about racism. He's right about back pain and diabetes and mental illness and dialysis and baldness and a zillion other things.

That's the whole point of the move Good Will Hunting, actually! Check it out. Matt Damon is young in it.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Agreed.
The problem is when someone assumes you aren't a minority.
I'm white, so I'll never know what it is like to be black in America.
I'm someone with turkish roots in Germany though, so I damn well know racism and it happened way too often someone tried to tell me I don't.