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Grexeno

Sorry for your ineptitude
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,818
CFkMtLEUIAAHRlG.jpg
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Hmm. I have a better formula :

KH: "I apologize unreservedly for disgraceful and immature comments I made on social media more than a decade ago borne of ignorance and a lack of empathy and I am committed to the welfare and happiness of the people I attacked and offended."

World: "OK don't do it again."

What actually happened :

KH: " I'm not sorry for shit it is you who are wrong."
I'm always surprised when you see celebrities not doing just this.
Even if you don't believe any of it, it's clearly the best approach in terms of outcomes.
Don't they have PR crisis teams?
This does not seem like a super difficult puzzle to solve.


Who is he even trying to appeal to?
Jefferson Davis is not exactly a celebrated person in the racist southern circles.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I'm always surprised when you see celebrities not doing just this.
Even if you don't believe any of it, it's clearly the best approach in terms of outcomes.
Don't they have PR crisis teams?
This does not seem like a super difficult puzzle to solve.

Who is he even trying to appeal to?
Jefferson Davis is not exactly a celebrated person in the racist southern circles.
Money and power buy you the ability to ignore people who tell you no.

Looks like he grew up in NC, that's probably what the Davis thing is about since it's pretty close in proximity to Richmond/VA and such in the wake of the revisionism. (We're going to finally be scrubbing his name off Jefferson Davis Highway here in NOVA pretty soon.)
 

Box of Kittens

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,018
I go even further and say that modern social media and algorithm driven content curation has had a negative effect on people. Aaron's story at least happened on a message board where he interacted with a level of intersectionality that helped him shift is worldview. Today people are more sorted into even more narrow and tailored groups where they have less interaction with people who share the sort of similarities and differences that help us all grow our understanding of the world.
I've been thinking a lot about the issues of algorithmic curation and the harm it does. I think one of the huge problems is the way it's used to remove accountability. Whatever one may think of the old media landscape, the fact that you could point to the people who made decisions kept a lot of the worst impulses in check. TV stations and newspapers didn't blast out Neo-Nazi propaganda in part because they'd be held accountable for their decisions. But now you have Facebook's algorithms pushing fake news onto people's feeds. You have YouTube recommending extremist content or people gaming the system to get young kids to autoplay videos with titles like "Frozen Elsa Spiderman Hulk Paw Patrol Sofia Head Elephant Finger Family Colors Learn" (actual example) that range from cheaply produced and vaguely unsettling garbage to content that is completely inappropriate and traumatizing to children. The collective response is a shrug of the shoulders, "the algorithm did it," and either a vague promise to "fix" the algorithm or a lecture about the wonders of free speech. At no point does big tech seem willing to examine the underlying problems with algorithmic curation.
 

Box of Kittens

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,018
Well, that was a short reprieve. Just saw my first Chicago mayor campaign ad on TV.
 
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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
My impression is that the general view of most neo-confederates and ~racist~ revisionist historians, is that Jefferson Davis was weak leader, a weak leader who through his weakness prevented Heroic Hero of Western Civilization and Greatest General Ever Robert E Lee from winning the war for the south.

But that's like, my impression, man.

Maybe people who grew up in the south can add some better sourced info here.
 

Gluka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
368
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Comey ordered an investigation into FBI NY because of public comments Giuliani made...no wonder they said nothing after that closed-door session.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,180
England

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
My impression is that the general view of most neo-confederates and ~racist~ revisionist historians, is that Jefferson Davis was weak leader, a weak leader who through his weakness prevented Heroic Hero of Western Civilization and Greatest General Ever Robert E Lee from winning the war for the south.

But that's like, my impression, man.

Maybe people who grew up in the south can add some better sourced info here.
I think this is specifically because of the nature of the group he was addressing, the United Daughters of the Confederacy were a group primarily dedicated to erecting monuments
The group was founded on September 10, 1894, by Caroline Meriwether Goodlett and Anna Davenport Raines as "the National Association of the Daughters of the Confederacy". The first chapter was formed in Nashville.[7] The name was soon changed to "United Daughters of the Confederacy".[2] Their stated intention was to "tell of the glorious fight against the greatest odds a nation ever faced, that their hallowed memory should never die." Their primary activity was to support the construction of Confederate memorials.[8] The UDC includes that members support U.S. troops and honor veterans of all U.S. wars.[1]
This was of course part of the Jim Crow/Civil Rights surge in "Monuments as Warnings/Symbols" https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/5442...e-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future
And that resulted in this list of places named after that shithead- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Jefferson_Davis

And I think what you might be seeing is a divergence here between the groups seeking to put up symbols (of which Davis is one of only a handful of hyper-prominent confederate names you can really use) vs the rank and file NeoConfederate grunts, who see him as their equivalent of Jimmy Carter for the Dems, a guy disliked because they think he fucked it all up for them, in the same way you see some of them slowly starting to turn on Trump.
Not sure if this was posted but Ammon Buddy quit the Militia movement altogether.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/...militia-movement-defends-migrant-caravan.html
At the rate Utah's turning purple I think the Nauvoo might be built when it actually happens.

Good for him though.
 

chadskin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,013

Still, Flanigan and others who worked with Barr at the Justice Department expressed surprise that he would even agree to take the job. White House officials "have been talking to him on and off for a long time. It started with the Russia defense job and then it was for the AG's job as well," said one source familiar with the conversations. "They talked to him multiple times. They were trying to convince him."

Notably, the source said, Barr had watched with dismay Trump's attacks on Sessions and had no interest in putting up with the same sort of abuse. What finally changed his mind? "Patriotism," said Flanigan. He and others say Barr genuinely felt the call of duty, especially after the turmoil the Justice Department has experienced in recent weeks with the selection as acting attorney general of Matthew Whitaker, an obscure and inexperienced former U.S. attorney from Iowa whose main apparent credential was that he had previously defended Trump on cable TV.

Oh.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I think this is specifically because of the nature of the group he was addressing, the United Daughters of the Confederacy were a group primarily dedicated to erecting monuments

This was of course part of the Jim Crow/Civil Rights surge in "Monuments as Warnings/Symbols" https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/5442...e-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future

And that resulted in this list of places named after that shithead- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memorials_to_Jefferson_Davis

And I think what you might be seeing is a divergence here between the groups seeking to put up symbols (of which Davis is one of only a handful of hyper-prominent confederate names you can really use) vs the rank and file NeoConfederate grunts, who see him as their equivalent of Jimmy Carter for the Dems, a guy disliked because they think he fucked it all up for them, in the same way you see some of them slowly starting to turn on Trump.
Yeah that makes sense.
I think there was a divergence in the view of Jefferson Davis between the aristocracy and the plebs even during the civil war.
 

Absent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,045

Around that time, sources tell Yahoo News, White House officials reached out to a man they thought would be an ideal candidate: William P. Barr, the attorney general under President George H.W. Bush. An outspoken conservative, Barr had gotten on Trump's radar screen that spring after he had written a newspaper op-ed vigorously defending the president's decision to fire FBI Director James Comey. At one point, Barr was ushered into a brief White House meeting with Trump, who asked him if he was interested in the job, according to a source who was present for the meeting. Barr demurred. He had other obligations, he said. He would have to think about it.
Timothy Flanigan, who served under Barr as assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Legal Counsel, told the Yahoo News "Skullduggery" podcast Saturday that those concerns are misplaced. Barr, he said, was "blunt" and "direct," and would have no problem standing up to Trump — or brushing back against the kind of tweetstorm attacks that Trump leveled against his last attorney general, Jeff Sessions. "Bill is tough and he's not likely to be pushed around," Flanigan said. "If it came to it, and Bill is being attacked — I don't know that Bill has a Twitter account — but he just might get one."
Another wild card in the mix is Barr's own past relationship with Mueller himself. When Barr was attorney general, Mueller was a key member of his team, serving as assistant attorney general in charge of the criminal division. The two men worked closely together on major issues of the day, including the indictment of Libyan intelligence agents in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am 103 and the prosecution of former Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega on drug trafficking charges. (Barr would years later recall Mueller excitedly coming to his office to tell him about Noriega's conviction, pumping his arm and shouting the Marine Corps battle cry, "Oorah!")
Perhaps one on of the more telling moments from Barr's tenure at the Justice Department came towards the very end when, during his final days in office, President George H.W. Bush announced the controversial decision to pardon six former Reagan administration officials who had been caught up in the Iran–Contra affair — one of whom, ex-Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger, was due to go to trial days later.
I want to see this happen just for the absurdity.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,990
South Carolina
God I despise Gowdy. Why didn't House Republicans launch an investigation if they thought Strzok abused his powers to go after One? They won the presidency off of stupid bullshit like this.

Real Political Scandals:

Evidence of malfeasence -> Investigations into the allegations -> if guilt is true, then we have arrests/trials/convictions (and the gloating and flip opportunities for the other party!)

GOP "Scandals":

"Convictions" come about from demagogical electeds, PR firms, outside lobbyists, and crooked media types -> Investigations to grandstand -> "Evidence? You would stop this gravy train?"

It's all backwards. And, that evidence could show how it's exaggerated or even shines the light on any shenanigans on their side of the fence.



Gonna be funny when it turns out he wasn't even on the "they showed me what they got on him AND ME" tip.

If true of course.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,739
Another wild card in the mix is Barr's own past relationship with Mueller himself. When Barr was attorney general, Mueller was a key member of his team, serving as assistant attorney general in charge of the criminal division. The two men worked closely together on major issues of the day, including the indictment of Libyan intelligence agents in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am 103 and the prosecution of former Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega on drug trafficking charges. (Barr would years later recall Mueller excitedly coming to his office to tell him about Noriega's conviction, pumping his arm and shouting the Marine Corps battle cry, "Oorah!")

God, I hope he does this when he releases the final report. I can't imagine seeing Mueller do this in real life. lol.

EDIT: Also, new thread title?
 

Absent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,045


Well, I mean, he's right.

Trump remains headstrong in his belief that he can outsmart adversaries and weather any threats, according to advisers. In the Russia probe, he continues to roar denials, dubiously proclaiming that the latest allegations of wrongdoing by his former associates "totally clear" him.
But some allies fret that the president's coalition could crack apart under the growing pressure. Stephen K. Bannon, the former Trump strategist who helped him navigate the most arduous phase of his 2016 campaign, predicted 2019 would be a year of "siege warfare" and cast the president's inner circle as naively optimistic and unsophisticated.
Rather than building a war room to manage the intersecting crises as past administrations have done, the Trump White House is understaffed, stuck in a bunker mentality and largely resigned to a plan to wing it. Political and communications operatives are mostly taking their cues from the president and letting him drive the message with his spontaneous broadsides.
The president has been telling friends that he believes the special counsel is flailing and has found nothing meaningful. "It's all games and trying to connect dots that don't really make sense," one friend said in describing Trump's view of Mueller's progress. "Trump is angry, but he's not really worried."
For now, Republicans on Capitol Hill are still inclined to stand by Trump and give the president the benefit of the doubt. But one pro-Trump senator said privately that a breaking point would be if Mueller documents conspiracy with Russians.

"Then they've lost me," said the senator, noting that several Republican lawmakers have been willing to publicly break with Trump when they believe it is in their interests — as many did over Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's role in the brutal killing of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
Some of Trump's allies have been encouraging him to bolster his legal team. One confidant recalled telling the president, "You need to get you an army of lawyers who know what the hell they're doing."
This train will not stop.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I'm always surprised when you see celebrities not doing just this.
Even if you don't believe any of it, it's clearly the best approach in terms of outcomes.
Don't they have PR crisis teams?
This does not seem like a super difficult puzzle to solve.


Who is he even trying to appeal to?
Jefferson Davis is not exactly a celebrated person in the racist southern circles.

Dude was literally one of the Confederacy's biggest weaknesses. Couldn't even fathom that one of his maids just might be the one stealing his war documents.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,857

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

Q: If Mueller were fired, how would that affect further investigations?

COMEY: "As an informed outsider ... you'd almost have to fire everyone in the FBI and the Justice Department to derail the relevant investigations, but I don't know exactly what the effect would be." P. 57
 

Iolo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,913
Britain

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

Q: If Mueller were fired, how would that affect further investigations?

COMEY: "As an informed outsider ... you'd almost have to fire everyone in the FBI and the Justice Department to derail the relevant investigations, but I don't know exactly what the effect would be." P. 57


challenge accepted!
 
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