Pals like this don't remotely look like Pokémon but of course no one is gonna talk about these and act like they're all shameless clones.
Lmao no way.
[VGC] Palworld embroiled in AI and Pokémon ‘plagiarism’ controversy
- Thread starter Red Kong XIX
- Start date
Lmao no way.
I won't speak for that specific poster, but it would be extremely disingenuous to pretend that the majority of posters mentioning AI aren't doing so in the context of creating the Pokemon-inspired models. Also, "using AI" is such a catch-all that it's essentially meaningless. Many (most) developers use Chat GPT and/or Copilot to assist in their development, and I don't think most people (rightfully) have a problem with that. AI discussions are virtually always centered on art, and this thread is no exception.
I've been showing my brother various pictures of Pals asking what Pokémon it is using the Twitter thread in the article listing similarities by name (I know nothing of Pokémon but he's obsessed) and he's literally listing totally different ones than the threads say, with a few exceptions
Nobody is talking about the "original" designs because that's not really relevant? "but what about the ones that aren't obviously Pokémon?" yeah? what about them? Is there a requirement for every single asset to be unoriginal for scrutiny to be given the ok?
Pals like this don't remotely look like Pokémon but of course no one is gonna talk about these and act like they're all shameless clones.
Top left has Empoleons crown on it, top right looks like Black Wargreymon (Digimon but still) and bottom reminds me of the genie legendary trio.
Pals like this don't remotely look like Pokémon but of course no one is gonna talk about these and act like they're all shameless clones.
But again, everyone here celebrated when Winnie and Mickey went public domain and had lazy low hanging fruit copies.
And even then, a lot of people here are doing Palworld a disservice considering plenty of the designs are original. If you want to cherry pick for an agenda you could easily make a similar argument for Temtem.
No one is saying all of Palworld's Pals are rips of Pokemon. If your determination on legitimacy here is an all or nothing approach then I don't know what to tell you, there's no threshold being debated here of what number of non-original Pal designs constitutes concern or acceptance. But you're not wrong, there are several Pals that I've seen that I cannot discern Pokemon features of. But I can tell you I've seen pictures of far more Pals that do have features that look directly cribbed from existing Pokemon just the same.
Only 69 out 120 Pals were plagiarized! That's almost half originality! Checkmate, libs! Whoahoho, here's three that I could find with no immediate similarities I recognize! Man, these are good cherries! Mmm MMM
I was not speaking about the visuals. I already mentioned that the visuals were similar but don't hold ground for any kind of legality battles. If they were made by AI, that might put them at risk for legal battles to ensure, but even that, as seen between the AI legal issues of DeviantART and StableDiffusion against other artists, is not a quick open and shut case.
I've seen the Twitter posts by the CEO and it is well within my right to refuse to play a game simply based on what the other user also posted to you as well.
I don't think you're thinking ahead. In the reverse of this situation, what would stop a big corp from just stealing small studios designs constantly, knowing they'd be unable to defend themselves sufficiently if not for copyright protections?
If this precedent were to be set, the precedent that there was no plagiarism here or that plagiarism is actually this easy to get away with, it opens a two way street.
Every artist knows that every creature you design grants you one Pokecredit.
That's not true at all. Why would you even post something so completely wrong?
OpenAI says it’s “impossible” to create useful AI models without copyrighted material
"Copyright today covers virtually every sort of human expression" and cannot be avoided.
arstechnica.com
Sure, i guess if people don't care about stealing, then it's all good!
What's clear to me is people really like these kinds of pokemon-ish artstyle, and it's a shame that they'd rip off Pokemon designs instead of trying to come up with more original creations.
It's obvious a lot of their designs are "look at this pokemon, try to make it just a liittle bit different".
At least Genshin did original characters and all even though it was said to be BOTW clone. Lies of Pi is another good example.
It's obvious a lot of their designs are "look at this pokemon, try to make it just a liittle bit different".
At least Genshin did original characters and all even though it was said to be BOTW clone. Lies of Pi is another good example.
I don't understand, this isn't an all-or-nothing thing...
The first one has Empoleon's crest on its head.
Pals like this don't remotely look like Pokémon but of course no one is gonna talk about these and act like they're all shameless clones.
If the other two have components modeled after Pokemon, I don't know, but I do think it's telling that even when people cherrypick examples in a disingenuous attempt to make Palworld look more original than it is, they still end up picking an example with obvious cribbing. It speaks to how endemic this is to Palworld's approach to creature design; you don't have to look for the Pals who are ripping off Pokemon, you have to look for the ones that aren't.
The more I see some of the Pals, the more it feels like they mixed and matched parts of different Pokémon to design them "on paper", then they did the model. Many have weird proportions or random things on them.
It's like they took the legs and arms of Zoroark for this one (Loupmoon, which by its name I guess is supposed to be a wolf but looks like some sort of jackalope?), + Absol's chest fur. The head/ears reminds me of something else from another game but I can pinpoint what.
that's simply because we are talking about the shameless clones
Pals like this don't remotely look like Pokémon but of course no one is gonna talk about these and act like they're all shameless clones.
But again, everyone here celebrated when Winnie and Mickey went public domain and had lazy low hanging fruit copies.
And even then, a lot of people here are doing Palworld a disservice considering plenty of the designs are original. If you want to cherry pick for an agenda you could easily make a similar argument for Temtem.
Copyright laws often fail to actually protect small creators. A case that I remember very well was that one Netflix series, 1899 copied a lot of elements of a small indie comic from my country called Black Silence. Did copyright laws help? Of course not, 1899 was cancelled because it underperfomed and the creator of Black Silence never saw a single dime her way.
If you're small you're already fucked, you live under capitalism, if you have money you can make things go your way and if you don't have any, you also don't have any rights. There's no need to worry about setting a precedent, copyright laws currently don't do enough to protect small creators. The fun thing is, that none of it would even matter if we didn't live in a society focused on generating profit.
Also there's no actual legal precedent to be set, none of what Palworld doing is legally plagearism, so it's just up to your moral compass to get mad about "stealing" from TPC.
Pals like this don't remotely look like Pokémon but of course no one is gonna talk about these and act like they're all shameless clones.
Hey, it's Sapphire from Steven Universe! They really ripped off all sorts of media for the Pals lol
Hey, Empoleon's crown is part of its beak. Its a pretty great design in general. This one just seems stuck onto its head because idk. With the millions of dollars they're getting surely they can hire a bunch of designers.
View: https://x.com/iuckyhd/status/1749266070676922479?s=46
There may actually be a plagiarism case in this example.
Yes but S/V makes games indistinguishable from Nintendo 64 launch titles so there.
There are a fair amount that look very close to the original models. That doesn't happen accidentally. Either they tried to replicate it exactly (why?) or its questionable asset usage.
The problem isn't that it's "another spikey wolf", it's that of ALL the ways to CREATE a wolf character, theirs looks damn near like the one you posted. Look at the Dreamworks one and clearly they aren't a "reused/repurposed" asset. And this isn't just the one singular Pokemon, but with TONS of Pals having features distinctly and uniquely seen on other Pokemon. It's rearranged parts, bashed together..
Even Splatoon took its time to redesign weapons, this game is just lifting models from real weapons it seems lol
Lol. There's no harmony in the art style when in comes to the monsters and the guns. Actually looks quite ridiculous.
You grab the original assets and make small tweaks. You'd have to be -stupid- not to make any tweaks.
It doesn't look like the same model but you can see how deliberately it's meant to look just like Primarina's hair.
It is, indeed, a blatant ripoff.
Man, when copying Primarina's hair onto Serperior, they only adjusted the dimensions? Couldn't even add a third spike of hair to the groups sticking out or remove one?
OpenAI says it’s “impossible” to create useful AI models without copyrighted material
"Copyright today covers virtually every sort of human expression" and cannot be avoided.
Sure, i guess if people don't care about stealing, then it's all good!
View: https://x.com/jarrett089i/status/1749084839280537647
Next time I am going to rip off someone I'd make sure to say that I am just merely "inspired" by them because judging by the responses by many in here it seems that is enough to shield me from any and all criticism,
I sincerely hope that anyone using this insipid defense of "inspiration" would someday find someone is ripping off your hard-work of creating something and say that they're merely "inspired" by you, see how much you like it.
I sincerely hope that anyone using this insipid defense of "inspiration" would someday find someone is ripping off your hard-work of creating something and say that they're merely "inspired" by you, see how much you like it.
I am not sure what the two of you are arguing against. Do you not agree that the majority of AI discussions (and subsequent pushback) on Era are related to art and artists, including in this topic? It does this thread a disservice to constantly mention AI when it's largely irrelevant to the alleged theft. I don't think that's an outlandish point; in fact many eloquent posters against what Palworld did, were also trying to steer the discussion away from AI.
Is it just me or is this thing riffing both a Pokemon and Temtem design (don't know if I'm not the first to point this out either):They're so....bizarre. Like the Avatar series' animal mash-ups, but without the creative intent (and directness), it's Frankenstein's Pokemon.
Like it's already a duck, why the beaver tail? (And then all the other extra superfluous appendages). Oh right, legally distinct.
Edit: I think the fact they wanted to do something more duck-like but more than likely wanted to reflect one-or-both of these designs is why you see the out-of-place beaver/platypus tail
Is it just me or is this thing riffing both a Pokemon and Temtem design (don't know if I'm not the first to point this out either):
A few people above just pointed out a design that resembles a Steven Universe character --- so yeah, it's most definitely ripping from a number of sources.
What I'm arguing against is the specifically the "Many (most) developers use Chat GPT and/or Copilot to assist in their development," part. That line specifically, I didn't mean to include the rest.
Oh shit, it was THIS guy???
It was a direct response to this part Many (most) developers use Chat GPT and/or Copilot to assist in their development, and I don't think most people (rightfully) have a problem with that"
Nothing to do with the game, and I have stated a few times within the context of the character models, they aren't AI generated.
Frankly the AI talk surrounding this game comes off as totally witch hunty, and I feel it's definitely going to come back around some day in a way that only further hurts artists.
I think Dinga Bakaba (of Arkane) had a pretty measured take:
View: https://x.com/dbakaba/status/1749122283346473182?s=46
I think Dinga Bakaba (of Arkane) had a pretty measured take:
View: https://x.com/dbakaba/status/1749122283346473182?s=46
Maybe nothing can be done, but people can be informed and make a decision about if they want to support it or not.
Dude's disingenuous take has been deconstructed a few times in this thread already.
Not sure what there is to argue, unless you want to nitpick the term "most":
Now, that's only one survey but I think StackOverflow is a pretty decent reference when it comes to professional development.
Side note, I don't use AI myself even though management has been pushing for it - but it's probably inevitable.
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It was posted earlier in the thread. Ppl found it interesting, but had some reservations on some stuff Dinga said in the complete that was wrong and unfounded, on stuff like xenoblade 2 and spaceballs. It always lessen an argument strength when your examples chosen are incorrect, especially in the spaceballs case where a quick Wikipedia look would show it.
We covered this tweet the last few pages. It's a bad take: We're talking about artwork and assets being ripped, he's talking about the genre and doing a bad job at it...
View: https://x.com/DBakaba/status/1749122304049664263?s=20
Dinga making potentially one of the worst comparisons here. Spaceballs was famously carefully navigated and approved of with George Lucas' aid. His one request was that the film not produce saleable merchandise:
Spaceballs would straight up not have happened without Lucas' approval and assistance.
Not to say the rest of his twitter thread isn't disappointing but this one really stuck out to me as a "you just do not get it" moment.
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One of the tweaks was removing the pearls that tie the hair together, so now there are just inexplicable dents in the hair. The seemingly non existent concept phase of creature design combined with evidence that its just using bits of existing models with no real direction should be enough to assume that it was rushed. Especially with reading about how they didn't even know how rigging worked for a while and ran out of money.
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i finally sat down and saw some of the models, there's some pretty obvious ripoffs is not rocket science.
It seems like years ago, but I was confused about the parody angle and said so in a couple of threads prior to the game's release.
Anything that isn't directly welded on is easy to remove so it makes sense. You can get rips of basically all pokemon, strip them down to their basic parts, and then mix and match. To be perfectly honest with you, kinda surprised it's taken like 10 years for someone to do this.
Yeah parody is a legit thing not just a defense you come up with after the fact
I was initially quite open and postive on a "South Park" or "Family Guy" to Pokemon's "Simpsons" but this isn't that, and I think I'm more bummed of this more than I am any perceived 'attack' on 'poor defence-less' established gaming IP.
I don't even begrudge people even thinking that now - we're not some opposing teams, we are just differing in opinion.
Whole mess clouded now.
Man, I am completely baffled at this game's popularity. Are PC Gamers really that hard up for a Pokemon clone or is this just edgelord meme territory?
All right, this might actually be the true legit case of plagiarism