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VGTech:Resident Evil Village PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Frame Rate Comparison (Gameplay Demo)

shadowsdarknes

shadowsdarknes

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,782
score01 said:
Given what we know about the 'tools' fiasco it makes it even more hilarious in hindsight.

Seeing as the SX is dipping at the same points as the PS5 (with PS5 dipping a bit more) im not sure what peoples issues are? It hardly looks like there is performance left on the table.
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Yeah.

So apparently RE8 may have had some early struggles on PS5 apparently not found on SX.
But given what we have heard about the tools for SX, if you took a snapshot on a random given day of the builds of a multiplatform game 8-10 months from launch, we would likely see some Xbox games not running so well comparatively, too.
 
shadowsdarknes

shadowsdarknes

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,782
DontHateTheBacon said:
Should probably not post rumors like that then, if they clearly could easily be fixed in the standard, normal development process.
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Yeah.

At any given point, there's probably thousands of developers with eyes on a AAA project currently in development.
It's apparently very common for platform specific issues to arise which may cause one platform to fall behind in terms of performance. Often, these issues are worked out as part of the normal development process.

These thousands of developers don't leak to Twitter about the comparative performance of their games in order to balance out the news cycle. Most developers aren't interested in casting doubt on their team's project and the platform that will give them millions of sales.
 
Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,885
Dont really see that point of unlocking the frames on One S. Sure it hits 60fps ones in a while but mostly sits between 35 and 45. Wich makes VRR pretty useless also. Next to many people not having that kind of TV. I think the One S can do 1080pCB with a nice locked 30fps. That would be a very good version overall.
 
bitcloudrzr

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,587
CarpetSalesman said:
Sure, but we've seen significant differences in other 3rd party games such as Hitman, seems peculiar how exactly the two match, almost like the Series X is running software aimed at PS5, rather than both machines running software as best they can.
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Even Hitman 3 is not really representative as the DF analysis showed the PS5 having more headroom based in the frame rate test. If that game had dynamic resolution for example, the PS5 would stick much closer to the SX performance and not have a res difference of 1800p vs 4k. Even with the 17% in raw performance advantage, it does not even show that with the RE8 frame rate test which the SX should be running locked 60fps.
 
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B.O.O.M.

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,834
EeK9X said:
Yeah, not sure if people are being disingenuous or legitimately have terrible memory, as this all took place less than a year ago.

That person has made so many incorrect claims in the past (which ended up contributing to a significant increase in the toxic discourse regarding the new consoles), that I can't comprehend why anyone would still take them seriously.

Even when trying to amend their previous false statements, they were still lying about knowing trade secrets, by saying that people "should get ready for the really real possibility that the PS5 is going to end up being the more expensive console between the two"; doubling down on that, asking to "prepare yourself", as the information they were allegedly asked not to share put the SX "in a position it'll be the less expensive and more powerful console" (source); still willing to die on that hill a month later, claiming that the PS5 cost $600 to produce - several months after the fact Bloomberg, an actual reputable outlet, had reported on the manufacturing costs being around $450; claiming to have "heard from other devs that PS5 struggles with 4K games in particular", so we'd see "a lot of fake 4K", and that the SX "doesn't have the same problem" (all in the same tweet). Not to mention the whole debacle surrounding their reasoning for "passing along anecdotal statements", which, to the "best" of their "knowledge", would "turn out to be true" (as seen here). According to them, the reason they shared incorrect information initially was because they "felt things were too sided despite knowing some accounts of what was about to happen".

Then again, people who are supposed to be serious journalists and work for big, traditional media outlets are still claiming, to this day, that the PS5 hardware doesn't support the "full" RDNA 2 architecture (despite what has always been clearly stated on AMD's own website), confusing trademarked marketing buzzwords for platform-specific APIs with the actual feature sets. Those same people also made incorrect assumptions in the past, based on spec sheets and "common sense", boasting about teraflops (historically, not a great metric for performance), as if raw power always translates into higher resolutions and better FPS, no matter what.
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lol holy shit.

This is not a receipt it's a ledger
 
Toumari

Toumari

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,381
England
EeK9X said:
Yeah, not sure if people are being disingenuous or legitimately have terrible memory, as this all took place less than a year ago.

That person has made so many incorrect claims in the past (which ended up contributing to a significant increase in the toxic discourse regarding the new consoles), that I can't comprehend why anyone would still take them seriously.

Even when trying to amend their previous false statements, they were still lying about knowing trade secrets, by saying that people "should get ready for the really real possibility that the PS5 is going to end up being the more expensive console between the two"; doubling down on that, asking to "prepare yourself", as the information they were allegedly asked not to share put the SX "in a position it'll be the less expensive and more powerful console" (source); still willing to die on that hill a month later, claiming that the PS5 cost $600 to produce - several months after the fact Bloomberg, an actual reputable outlet, had reported on the manufacturing costs being around $450; claiming to have "heard from other devs that PS5 struggles with 4K games in particular", so we'd see "a lot of fake 4K", and that the SX "doesn't have the same problem" (all in the same tweet). Not to mention the whole debacle surrounding their reasoning for "passing along anecdotal statements", which, to the "best" of their "knowledge", would "turn out to be true" (as seen here). According to them, the reason they shared incorrect information initially was because they "felt things were too sided despite knowing some accounts of what was about to happen".

Then again, people who are supposed to be serious journalists and work for big, traditional media outlets are still claiming, to this day, that the PS5 hardware doesn't support the "full" RDNA 2 architecture (despite what has always been clearly stated on AMD's own website), confusing trademarked marketing buzzwords for platform-specific APIs with the actual feature sets. Those same people also made incorrect assumptions in the past, based on spec sheets and "common sense", boasting about teraflops (historically, not a great metric for performance), as if raw power always translates into higher resolutions and better FPS, no matter what.
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How do you upvote posts on Era?
 
Helix

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,315
EeK9X said:
Yeah, not sure if people are being disingenuous or legitimately have terrible memory, as this all took place less than a year ago.

That person has made so many incorrect claims in the past (which ended up contributing to a significant increase in the toxic discourse regarding the new consoles), that I can't comprehend why anyone would still take them seriously.

Even when trying to amend their previous false statements, they were still lying about knowing trade secrets, by saying that people "should get ready for the really real possibility that the PS5 is going to end up being the more expensive console between the two"; doubling down on that, asking to "prepare yourself", as the information they were allegedly asked not to share put the SX "in a position it'll be the less expensive and more powerful console" (source); still willing to die on that hill a month later, claiming that the PS5 cost $600 to produce - several months after the fact Bloomberg, an actual reputable outlet, had reported on the manufacturing costs being around $450; claiming to have "heard from other devs that PS5 struggles with 4K games in particular", so we'd see "a lot of fake 4K", and that the SX "doesn't have the same problem" (all in the same tweet). Not to mention the whole debacle surrounding their reasoning for "passing along anecdotal statements", which, to the "best" of their "knowledge", would "turn out to be true" (as seen here). According to them, the reason they shared incorrect information initially was because they "felt things were too sided despite knowing some accounts of what was about to happen".

Then again, people who are supposed to be serious journalists and work for big, traditional media outlets are still claiming, to this day, that the PS5 hardware doesn't support the "full" RDNA 2 architecture (despite what has always been clearly stated on AMD's own website), confusing trademarked marketing buzzwords for platform-specific APIs with the actual feature sets. Those same people also made incorrect assumptions in the past, based on spec sheets and "common sense", boasting about teraflops (historically, not a great metric for performance), as if raw power always translates into higher resolutions and better FPS, no matter what.
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hooooooo boy
 
Dictator

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,967
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Micerider

Micerider

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,195
Dictator said:
Playstation 5 does not support Variable Rate Shading Tier 2 - in Hardware or in its API - which is one of the Full RDNA 2 features.
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Yeah, that's what I understood too, the AMD mention was only confirming PS5 was part of the work toward RDNA2 (with Sony partly taking from and contributing to the RDNA2 design) but not a confirmation that it was taking everything (which could just also mean that Sony preferred other solutions to fit their needs).
 
HeWhoWalks

HeWhoWalks

Member
Jan 17, 2018
2,522
EeK9X said:
Yeah, not sure if people are being disingenuous or legitimately have terrible memory, as this all took place less than a year ago.

That person has made so many incorrect claims in the past (which ended up contributing to a significant increase in the toxic discourse regarding the new consoles), that I can't comprehend why anyone would still take them seriously.

Even when trying to amend their previous false statements, they were still lying about knowing trade secrets, by saying that people "should get ready for the really real possibility that the PS5 is going to end up being the more expensive console between the two"; doubling down on that, asking to "prepare yourself", as the information they were allegedly asked not to share put the SX "in a position it'll be the less expensive and more powerful console" (source); still willing to die on that hill a month later, claiming that the PS5 cost $600 to produce - several months after the fact Bloomberg, an actual reputable outlet, had reported on the manufacturing costs being around $450; claiming to have "heard from other devs that PS5 struggles with 4K games in particular", so we'd see "a lot of fake 4K", and that the SX "doesn't have the same problem" (all in the same tweet). Not to mention the whole debacle surrounding their reasoning for "passing along anecdotal statements", which, to the "best" of their "knowledge", would "turn out to be true" (as seen here). According to them, the reason they shared incorrect information initially was because they "felt things were too sided despite knowing some accounts of what was about to happen".

Then again, people who are supposed to be serious journalists and work for big, traditional media outlets are still claiming, to this day, that the PS5 hardware doesn't support the "full" RDNA 2 architecture (despite what has always been clearly stated on AMD's own website), confusing trademarked marketing buzzwords for platform-specific APIs with the actual feature sets. Those same people also made incorrect assumptions in the past, based on spec sheets and "common sense", boasting about teraflops (historically, not a great metric for performance), as if raw power always translates into higher resolutions and better FPS, no matter what.
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It's like my post was the appetizer to this! 😸
 
Andromeda

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,884
mugurumakensei said:
my dude variable rate shading is not a marketing buzz word or platform specific api as I know you're gonna say geometry engine is the same thing. In fact, variable rate shading existed as an extension available under Nvidia hardware available under Vulcan and DX12 as extensions before DX12U.

www.khronos.org

Khronos Vulkan Working Group Releases Shading Rate Extension to Increase Rendering Performance and Quality

The Vulkan Working Group has just released the VK_KHR_fragment_shading_rate extension, which provides a new, flexible technique to control the fragment shading rate, enabling developers to perform shading at a lower resolution than the render targets. This fine level of control allows developers...
www.khronos.org www.khronos.org


same goes for mesh shaders

PS5 doesn't tout these features cause it doesn't have them though geometry engine is roughly the same as mesh shaders.
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Lack of hardware VRS won't be a problem on PS5 because we know it's already not a problem in 2 games (or engines): Activision showed in some cases software VRS is a better solution (performance and final results) than using hardware VRS because they notably have more flexibility with their own solution. And we know Metro devs already have their custom VRS solution working on PS5.

We don't know how primitive shaders fare against mesh shaders. What we know is that primitive shaders are already working very well on PS5 because they have being used in UE5 demo by Epic.
 
brokenswiftie

brokenswiftie

Prophet of Truth
Banned
May 30, 2018
2,921
Micerider said:
Yeah, that's what I understood too, the AMD mention was only confirming PS5 was part of the work toward RDNA2 (with Sony partly taking from and contributing to the RDNA2 design) but not a confirmation that it was taking everything (which could just also mean that Sony preferred other solutions to fit their needs).
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If Sony had similar solutions in hardware or in API I believe dictator would have found that too and said so
 
SRTtoZ

SRTtoZ

Member
Dec 8, 2017
4,624
So what platform should I get it on? I know Series X has VRR but I've heard some people saying the VRR seems to not be working? Also I hear there are control issues on Series X? Are there any dualsense features?
 
Dolce

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,286
DontHateTheBacon said:
Should probably not post rumors like that then, if they clearly could easily be fixed in the standard, normal development process.
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It was a multi-faceted rumor that tied in with other stuff. And hearing about how development works is interesting and it already sucks that we're stuck with vertical slices and developers being afraid of showing games early because people don't understand what "in development" means. I want to hear more about development, not less. I want to see more about games and how they change during development, not less.
 
DontHateTheBacon

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,857
Gravijah said:
It was a multi-faceted rumor that tied in with other stuff. And hearing about how development works is interesting and it already sucks that we're stuck with vertical slices and developers being afraid of showing games early because people don't understand what "in development" means. I want to hear more about development, not less. I want to see more about games and how they change during development, not less.
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I understand what you're saying, but that's not what usually happens here when things like this are posted.

People just use it to further their console warrior mentalities.
 
EeK9X

EeK9X

Member
Jan 31, 2019
1,093
Dictator said:
Playstation 5 does not support Variable Rate Shading Tier 2 - in Hardware or in its API - which is one of the Full RDNA 2 features.
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Are you still basing on your assumption on the accounts you received from two programmers allegedly working on PS5 games, as indicated on this Beyond3D thread? Because, even there, you said you weren't sure if the hardware supported it or not, going so far as saying that if it did, VRS could be added to the SDK later (being an API-level feature).

If you have an official confirmation of that, please share your sources, as this guessing game has done nothing but fuel the flames of console warring, by arming trolls with misinformation and spreading even more FUD.

The worst part is that this discussion is, ultimately, inconsequential, as there are alternatives - either at the hardware level or via software - to VRS, as clearly indicated by the tweets and forum posts linked in response to you (the only public reports by actual industry professionals - the Art Lead at Activision and former PlayStation Principal Software Engineer, Matt Hargett), not to mention the patent filed by Mark Cerny in June of 2020, which, despite describing "a scene in a virtual space" (likely referring to VR, where VRS, combined with foveated rendering, is most useful), basically describes what Tier 2 VRS amounts to. Now that we know for certain that the next PSVR will be tethered to the console (strongly suggesting that the PS5 will be doing all the hard work, and not the headset), it can be inferred from the patent that the PS5 hardware is capable of doing all the things mentioned in its text - including both tiers of VRS.

In the end, I find it extremely unlikely that an API-level feature capable of being reproduced in GPUs released as far back as 2018 (Nvidia's Turing) won't be implemented on the PS5 at some point, even if Sony is lagging behind in terms of adding AMD's suite of FidelityFX techniques to their console. And if you want to get really technical about GPU capabilities, neither the PS5's nor the Xbox Series' GPUs are "fully" RDNA 2. Yet, I don't see you or anyone else calling the latest Xbox "RDNA 1", "RDNA 1.5", "not full RDNA 2", etc.

Oh, and so we stay on topic, do you have anything to add to this comment of yours, given recent developments across multi-platform titles and the performance metrics demonstrated on this very thread?

Dictator said:
Series X will be better at RT. Better GPU with more shading Power, more intersection Tests, and more bandwidth = better RT performance.

This is common sense stuff.

They are both using the AMD approach, and unless AMDs Hardware RT scales negatively, XSX will have better RT performance.
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Dictator

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,967
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
EeK9X said:
Are you still basing on your assumption on the accounts you received from two programmers allegedly working on PS5 games, as indicated on this Beyond3D thread? Because, even there, you said you weren't sure if the hardware supported it or not, going so far as saying that if it did, VRS could be added to the SDK later (being an API-level feature).

If you have an official confirmation of that, please share your sources, as this guessing game has done nothing but fuel the flames of console warring, by arming trolls with misinformation and spreading even more FUD.

The worst part is that this discussion is, ultimately, inconsequential, as there are alternatives - either at the hardware level or via software - to VRS, as clearly indicated by the tweets and forum posts linked in response to you (the only public reports by actual industry professionals - the Art Lead at Activision and former PlayStation Principal Software Engineer, Matt Hargett), not to mention the patent filed by Mark Cerny in June of 2020, which, despite describing "a scene in a virtual space" (likely referring to VR, where VRS, combined with foveated rendering, is most useful), basically describes what Tier 2 VRS amounts to. Now that we know for certain that the next PSVR will be tethered to the console (strongly suggesting that the PS5 will be doing all the hard work, and not the headset), it can be inferred from the patent that the PS5 hardware is capable of doing all the things mentioned in its text - including both tiers of VRS.

In the end, I find it extremely unlikely that an API-level feature capable of being reproduced in GPUs released as far back as 2018 (Nvidia's Turing) won't be implemented on the PS5 at some point, even if Sony is lagging behind in terms of adding AMD's suite of FidelityFX techniques to their console. And if you want to get really technical about GPU capabilities, neither the PS5's nor the Xbox Series' GPUs are "fully" RDNA 2. Yet, I don't see you or anyone else calling the latest Xbox "RDNA 1", "RDNA 1.5", "not full RDNA 2", etc.

Oh, and so we stay on topic, do you have anything to add to this comment of yours, given recent developments across multi-platform titles and the performance metrics demonstrated on this very thread?
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I am basing my commentary on Direct convrsatoin with now more than 2 programmers working on PS5. It just does not have Tier 2 support.
 
arsene_P5

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
SRTtoZ said:
So what platform should I get it on? I know Series X has VRR but I've heard some people saying the VRR seems to not be working? Also I hear there are control issues on Series X? Are there any dualsense features?
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Yes there are DualSense features. Weapons feel differently.

EeK9X said:
Even features that are not yet present can be added later, via updates, just like Khronos is doing with Vulkan
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Not everything can be added later. Xbox can't add cache scrubbers (PS5 customization) via a update and Sony can't add customization in hardware Xbox made.
EeK9X said:
not to mention the patent filed by Mark Cerny in June of 2020, which, despite describing "a scene in a virtual space" (likely referring to VR, where VRS, combined with foveated rendering, is most useful), basically describes what Tier 2 VRS amounts to.
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Patents should be used with caution. Xbox for example has a patent, since 2018 which details a "Xbox sense" controller. Will these features be unlocked later on the Xbox controllers? What about Sony patent to bring trophies to PS2 games and what about controlling games with your mind? /s. Yes there is actually a Sony patent about that.

You can't ask Dictator for his development source, because said person would loose his job. Why don't you proof the PS has these features instead, because you are the person claiming they have them and guessing? Matt (your twitter source) didn't confirm VRS and patents aren't proof of anything, other than company XY researching and thinking about XY.

Case in point: A patent showed infinity cache iirc and we all know since the die shots, PS5 doesn't have a infinity cache, which was heavily speculated beforehand.
 
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Winstano

Winstano

Editor-in-chief at nextgenbase.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,842


Did my own take on the PS5 performance vid. It's interesting - Flick on RT and it hovers between 50 and 60, well above the 45 they predicted
 

cigi

Member
Nov 6, 2017
9
DukeBlueBall said:
PS5 die shot reveals RDNA 1 RBEs, so hardware support for VRS of any kind is precluded.

Not a big deal as software VRS is as good as tier 2 at the cost of less performance savings.
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Are you seriously trying to say that a first gen.version of VRS that is software supported is as god as a second generation hardware solution 👀
 

cigi

Member
Nov 6, 2017
9
DukeBlueBall said:
Software VRS, according to Infinity Ward, is much superior to VRS tier 1.0.

research.activision.com

Software-based Variable Rate Shading in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

research.activision.com research.activision.com
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But that was not really what you said. You talked about vrs tier 2 which is much better than vrs1. Add to that sampler feedback and you have a much superior solution.

"Tier 2 VRS allowed Gears 5/Tactics to see an up to 14% boost in GPU perf with no perceptible impact to visual quality. It is available on all hardware supporting DirectX 12 Ultimate, including Xbox Series X|S, AMD Radeon™ RX 6000 Series graphics cards, and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 20 Series and 30 Series GPUs."
 
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