Or the magic spell that gave him powers wasn't broken so he kept the powers.
WandaVision | Paul Bettany is in this | Fridays on Disney+
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Aaw, I would love to see Monica and the twin adventure together. Monica did deliver one of them.
This is creepy as fuck. What is wrong with people?
Hell, maybe we'll get a "real Mandarin" moment with Evan Peters. A man can hope.
got to be incursion, right? Fox verse can be like Ultimate Universe and got destroyed
This is exactly what I think. Maybe I'm just being ignorant but the writing in this and throughout the MCU makes it seem to me as long as intentions are good and no harm was intended, they can hold themselves accountable even if thousands of people are hurt. I don't need to see Wanda in jail or anything like that, but the writing should at least imply it's bad that she's getting off without even a slap on the wrist.
Not going to stop me from continuing to watch MCU, but it's still going to keep bothering me and I'll still mention it when it happens.
Just wanted to quote this because it was such a great interview that discussed so many things that have come up in this thread. SonofDonCD wrote out some of the things in the ggreat post below, but there was a lot more, too.
Also really showed how Shakman really was the right person for the job, with his background and passion.
interview starts at 35:10
Also really showed how Shakman really was the right person for the job, with his background and passion.
interview starts at 35:10
Calling it a "dick joke payoff" is a bit silly. There was no payoff, he was simply some dude. It is okay for story beats to do that.
I get it, though, I was hoping for some cross universe shenanigans. We're the kind of nerds who like that shit though, so it was always going to be a bit disappointing for us.
I'm not sure why they didn't reference the snap but did acknowledge Thanos attacking Earth.
The payoff was that he was the Ralph Agnes kept on alluding to. The director talked about the bohner joke on the Kevin Smith interview. The director was a kid actor in alot of 80's TV shows. He was in a Growing Pains spinoff show. I think it was Growing Pains that had a Bohner character in it and Evan's character was a reference to that TV show's character since it had something to do with the directors past.
The show started off so incredibly good. I was super down for all the sitcom stuff and the slow trickling of information and hints about the situation and outside world. But the more Marvel-y it got at the end the more the quality started to drop in my opinion. The quality of the VFX started to become hit or miss, the writing got sloppier and the overall design and art direction got corny.
The design of the Witch cave was super corny and plastic-looking. And Agatha her witch look was also just a bit silly looking with the blown-out hair and crazy eyes. The writing around Wanda being both the hero and villain got confusing and sloppy. As was the writing around Monica randomly getting powers and not really caring about it. Is she still powered now that the Hex is gone?
Anyway, apart from those comments the show is an absolute gem. Such an interesting concept for a storyline and show. I was really looking forward to each new show. Definitely gets me more excited for all the Marvel shows and what they could become. And it's really exciting to see what the future for the MCU will hold. I wasn't as excited for Marvel stuff anymore after End Game. But now I'm back on board!
The design of the Witch cave was super corny and plastic-looking. And Agatha her witch look was also just a bit silly looking with the blown-out hair and crazy eyes. The writing around Wanda being both the hero and villain got confusing and sloppy. As was the writing around Monica randomly getting powers and not really caring about it. Is she still powered now that the Hex is gone?
Anyway, apart from those comments the show is an absolute gem. Such an interesting concept for a storyline and show. I was really looking forward to each new show. Definitely gets me more excited for all the Marvel shows and what they could become. And it's really exciting to see what the future for the MCU will hold. I wasn't as excited for Marvel stuff anymore after End Game. But now I'm back on board!
You could be right, but I didn't take it that way.
Personally I hope they don't make the story about her struggling with a separate entity inside of her -the Scarlet Witch - and allow her to be a person with agency even though she's dealing with sever mental health issues.
As far as the heroes not suggesting she get help, I don't think I'll ever accept it. Before Monica even met Wanda, that was her angle - that Wanda needed help. Then she was victimized by Wanda and saw her nightmares. She knew Wanda was hurting and there's no reason she would have thought that Wanda taking down the Hex was indication that Wanda could handle her mental health issues alone.
Vision knew everything he needed to know. Darcy gave him the history of Wanda's grief, and he experienced first hand how her grief turned her into a master manipulator. It makes no sense at all for him to assume Wanda would make things right - She's still struggling mentally, and she's moments away from being all alone again.
My argument is that way the actions were chosen and presented late in the story felt like a contrived effort to use plot twists to skew the audiences perception moral alignment rather than allowing the complex web of conflicting values to play out organically by having characters react according to their characterizations.
WE the audience know that Vision is not a robot because we watched other MCU content. And for that WE sympathize for Wanda's situation. We also know that no rationale gov agency is going to surrender a WMD to a civilian or honor the will of an AI.
But within confines of the WandaVision story, the victims of the Hex have no reason to desire a favorable outcome for Wanda over Hayward. Wanda is their oppressor and White Vision was sent by SWORD and Hayward to take out their oppressor. We don't get to see anyone's else's natural reaction to this dynamic. We just get to see Hayward unload a clip at some kids. It's completely hamfisted.
Wanda ultimately getting away isn't what I take issue with. The issue, is the last minute effort to turn a complex conflict into a simple good versus evil conflict. The episode ended more cliche than it began.
At the beginning of the episode we had a wicked, power hungry witch who also felt a personal responsibility to stop a doomsday premonition -And she was down to do some unsavory shit to achieve Both of those goals. It seemed like we had an interesting villain on our hands for once.
Wanda was still rationalizing her Hex until Agatha showed Wanda the torturous conditions. When Agatha brokered the deal, Wanda's conflict was "surrender this curse of a power set , fix the torture glitch in my Hex, and keep my family" or "admit that everything I've done here is wrong, and cannot be fixed with a flick of the wrist". All this with the backdrop of Wanda's uncontrollable power potentially leading to the end of the world. This is awesome tension. The final "battle" SHOULD have been Wanda grappling with the persistent immorality of the idea of a Hex that no longer cause it's inhabitants mental anguish. And with Agatha as a catalyst, she'd grow to be able accept the loss of her toxic coping mechanism and her family.
Then it was revealed that the deal was fake, and Agatha was going to gleefully allow the torture of Westview to continue. Suddenly, The conflict became as simple as every MCU product before it- Stop the bad guy and stop the torture or fail to stop the bad guy and let the torture continue.
so instead of seeing how Wanda come to grips with losing her Ill gotten family, we get a CGI fight against a mustache twirling evil, Wanda's big eureka moment is that she learns some traditional witchcraft, and We just accepts that somehow the physical feat culminated in Wanda figuring out how to let go long enough to free Westview.
to top it all off, the people in the town square just had their minds freed by Agatha! Then Wanda's response to them speaking freely is to strangle them. Then Agatha, goes into battle with their oppressor, loses , and is converted into a mind slave.The audience knows Agatha is no hero, but the people of Westview would reasonably feel very differently. This again is glossed over by key characters. Including Monica who witnessed the whole thing.
once again, hamfisted. Not as bad as the Hayward stuff. But not nearly as good as it could and should have been.
Thematically, there's no need for anyone to be physically capable of taking Wanda into custody. The problem is that the characters who should be noting the continued injustice and ongoing mental health emergency are instead validating someone who needs help, not validation. It's just really shitty characterization.
Nah, Monica saw Wanda hold 3000 people hostage, including Monica herself, and torture them. I'm sure Cap, in Monica's shoes, would have said more than "thank you for your sacrifice, good luck ". He would have actually put forth an effort to get her the help she needs. Because that's his characterization. What is Monica's characterization? She's ultimately useless in this story.
again, there's nothing wrong with Wanda deciding to flee. That fits her characterization. What's problematic is how the people around her are reacting to the situation.
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I was pretty sure it showed up in The Runaways too, so I checked and it indeed was. Elizabeth Hurley tried to use it to merge their universe with the Dark Dimension.
Folks probably don't care about that, though. 😂
Too many ramifications I suppose. Would they have to do a 5 year jump? Or do stories dealing with the fallout?
AOS has been non-canon ever since Infinity War. I just consider it being part of its own universe, kinda like the Netflix stuff.
Just watched it. Enjoyed it overall if I felt like it didn't nail the ending.
Some choice quotes from my wife:
"So she kidnapped and tortured a town because she was sad and the cop lady is like "I would have done it too" ?"
"Is that really the last thing you want to say to your imaginary kids before they dissolve?"
"Runes!"
"I don't want another show about side characters"
8/10 if only for the commitment to the TV sitcom dedication in the first few episodes.
Some choice quotes from my wife:
"So she kidnapped and tortured a town because she was sad and the cop lady is like "I would have done it too" ?"
"Is that really the last thing you want to say to your imaginary kids before they dissolve?"
"Runes!"
"I don't want another show about side characters"
8/10 if only for the commitment to the TV sitcom dedication in the first few episodes.
Yeah, to be clear I don't actually think she's being set-up for future stuff. My joke was more that if they ever changed their minds and wanted to do more with Caulfield they left themselves a funny avenue to roll down. That's the MCU's trick, playing fast and loose while making it look like everything's pre-planned, and it keeps working so well because of how well they capitalize on even the tiniest seeds.
The dubious canonicity of the non-Marvel Studios projects is going to be a recurring thing until they finally take a definitive stance on it. And it really only comes down to AoS and the Netflix shows, aka the only things people are actually really loud about preserving (sorry Runaways fans).
'WandaVision': Matt Shakman Opens Up About How the Pandemic Changed the Finale - Murphy's Multiverse
It’s crazy to think that WandaVision has officially come to an end. After its nine-episode run on Disney+,…
www.murphysmultiverse.com
Linking this less because of any new details and more to call out Murphy on actually being a bit irresponsible:
Watching the part in the interview and this is literally the opposite of what the director said. To quote the post with the timestamps:
Apparently they did shoot the scene too, just never finish the visual effects. I really want to see it too, if not to have more Darcy scenes. Hopefully we see a bit of it in the making of wandavision next week
If they would have casted Zac Efron no one would have participated in the "who is Fietro" mystery.
Evan Peters was specifically cast so that people could theorize. Without using this particular actor, everyone in the audience would have immediately understood Fietro to be a Westview resistent forced into a roll - because that what he was. But Peters was cast and his appearances framed specifically so that viewers would not assume he was simply another Westview resident - which is why they even bothered to reveal his true identity in the last episode.
Such a short - yet long - wait.
No doubt. During those shorts I kinda felt "okay, maybe I should -rewatch this. And This. And That. And This. And everything.
.... thank you Marvel.
From my understanding, Marvel Studios kept the ending of Infinity War secret from Marvel Television, so they didn't know it was coming until the movie was out.
Right now, I see it a bit like Star Wars Legends: as a whole they're non-canon, but the MCU proper can pick and choose the parts they'd like to preserve or re-introduce. This can be in a wholly different form, like the Darkhold, or perhaps more directly, for instance if any of the Netflix characters show up in future movies.
They don't want to preserve it, they just will not piss of that loud fanbase. They however don't care about writing things that overlap.
There's no way we're getting a second season of Wandavision but there's also no way her story is ending with the next Doctor Strange movie. Whether Wanda gets another show or even her own movies is something they are probably working out right now. Pretty sure everyone will want to get on it as soon as possible, too.
At this point we're just waiting for them to introduce one of the Netflix characters again - that'll be the guillotine coming down, because if you bring back Daredevil and he's not the Netflix Daredevil the whole interconnected thing falls apart. SHIELD has been getting overwritten bit by bit, and if/when we see Inhuman stuff that'll be de-canon-ized too.
Interesting enough I think the only stuff that will, ultimately, end up in that "technically canon because it hasn't been contradicted" space is the obscure shows - Cloak and Dagger, Runaways, Helstrom. Because I doubt they're bringing in Satana any time soon, y'know?
Interesting enough I think the only stuff that will, ultimately, end up in that "technically canon because it hasn't been contradicted" space is the obscure shows - Cloak and Dagger, Runaways, Helstrom. Because I doubt they're bringing in Satana any time soon, y'know?
I was just about to say all those points about meta-commentary on sitcoms and recasting, and denial etc are fine - but why did it have to be Evan Peters. But then I thought - if it *was* just a random guy, we woudln't know who it was supposed to be. We get that 'fuck its Pietro' moment, swifly followed by the recast comments from Darcy, and Wanda not really knowing whats going on. If it was a random guy with white hair we wouldn't get it at all, and the show would need to spell it out for us which would have slowed things down.
So maybe it did need to be Evan Peters specifically for that to work, with the unfortunate side effect of pissing a bunch of people off?
If it was meant to be a truly random person, why Peters with all his X-men history to the audience, hehe.
Ben Kingsley should had played the part, lol.
Ben Kingsley should had played the part, lol.
This is the one thats weird to me, the other three are understandable. Why set this up with no payoff? During dailies I presume they had to see how this sounded. Maybe add a single line about your moms friends who don't agree with Haywards changes, or have the engineer also be a skrull. I get that they thought it was a tease that let to Photon's creation, but weird to not think they might also be teasing the unnamed person to be a future plot beat.
They knew it'd mess with people. It got everyone talking and theorising and connecting dots that weren't really there to figure out why Evan Peters was playing Quicksilver and even acting much the same.
It was no real different to Bettany's cheeky joke. They totally know that a lot of people that watch these shows are gonna come at them from the perspective of existing information and try to figure everything out, so they mess with us.
It's kinda funny, I think.
Ted McGinnley looking over Darcy's shoulder would have been hilarious.
I'd forgotten how insufferable discussion around Marvel movies can be. Is it really that difficult for folks to just...enjoy something? lol.
Not everything needs to be explained to the last detail, it's okay to just use your imagination and shut off your brain for a little while.
Not everything needs to be explained to the last detail, it's okay to just use your imagination and shut off your brain for a little while.
Oh. The issue isn't that they kept Infinity War's ending a secret, because everyone who read the comics and had an ounce of dramatic sense knew that the movie would end with Thanos getting all of the stones, snapping and killing half of all life in the universe. It's that Endgame's plot, including the time skip was a state secret, that no one knew about, and thus it was hard to justify incorporating the Snap into things, because they had to run with the assumption that like the comics, how the heroes stopped and undid Thanos's actions would have been immediate.
Like, if they did a season of Agents of Shield set in a post-snap world, and then Endgame revealed that the heroes beat Thanos and undid everything within an hour, you've got problems, your entire season not only never happened, but it also made no sense in the continuity, and that's no fun.
BUT, likewise, if Agents of Shield had a full season set in a post-snap world between Infinity War and the release of Endgame, the fact that Endgame wasn't going to have the heroes immediately undo what Thanos did would be spoiled by a TV tie-in.
They really didn't have a good option here, beyond either going on hiatus until Endgame was released, going ahead and just spoiling Endgame's big twist, or just going off and doing their own thing.
It was never a tease, it was just a shorthand for why Monica was able to a get a billion dollar experimental spacecraft delivered on command in three days.
Lol, I would love it if they canonized Helstrom, I loved that show.
That's 100% not happening, though.
The real issue, which I suspect the writers didn't see coming, was that A) the fans were really hoping that SWORD would be setting up Fantastic Four, and B) the fans would spend a ton of time going "is this a hint? is that a hint?" each week.
Had they gone "I have a friend, Sophie, an aerospace engineer." they would have gotten the same thing done, without the fans working themselves into a frenzy. But they didn't think they'd need that. They just thought they needed some explanation for why Monica can get her space rover delivered on request.
I was wondering if I should check it out since it's on D+ in Canada. Is it an enjoyable standalone one season show that's cancelled?