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Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
It's Biden's nom to lose, unfortunately. It's a combination of most people not paying attention and his name ID with Obama shine. Most people feel like they know what they'd get with a Biden presidency and it would be "back to normal" which people still think is possible because, again, they're not paying attention.
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
If Biden wins I'll get thrown in the gulags with other browns when whatever comes after Trump wins in 4 years. See y'all in the bread lines.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
I was a Beto supporter. Really liked Inslee. I now would prefer Warren to win it all.

I've just come to accept the fact that it'll likely be Bernie.
So, hypothetically speaking, if the choices come down to Bernie, Biden and Warren, but Warren is polling poorly in your state and voting for her would be the equivalent to voting Biden, would you vote for Bernie?
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I will vote for Bernie Sanders in the primaries because i think he has the greatest shot to win against trump outside of the primary election, but far more than that, i will vote for him because i believe he supports the most progressive and forward thinking vision for America, that people in the democratic party and elsewhere actually want to see, when you strip away all of the nonsense.

There are far more people who are screwed by this system than there are who benefit, and that should be made perfectly clear.

So no, i dont think Joe Biden is enough. I dont think Bloomberg is enough. I dont think Mayor Pete is enough. I dont think any of these people are enough...to be an actual resistance that we need against fascism. Not when they actively try and court it over making it a clear enemy.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Bernie Sanders could easily beat Trump if the party backed him imo. Republicans will use Obama adjacent smears to hell and back against Joe, they will stick. Trump will also make him look weak as fuck during debate.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
The youth is often too busy trying to survive and can't lose their job to go out and vote.

That's part of the reason why we haven't made election day a mandatory holiday yet because only retirees voting is a feature, not a bug.

No, not really. Youth vote has been in the dumpster for 20+ years, and one of the main reasons is apathy and a general feeling that they don't know enough to vote.

The primary reason is around apathy and how that apathy manifests itself and how it's formed, which in part are because there isn't an effort to create outreach (because they don't vote, you can see this is a feedback loop), missing deadlines to register (lack of information and a lack of motivation to seek information), a life that is on the move more than your average older adult (lack of having a "home" reduces the feeling to vote, especially in local elections).
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
So, hypothetically speaking, if the choices come down to Bernie, Biden and Warren, but Warren is polling poorly in your state and voting for her would be the equivalent to voting Biden, would you vote for Bernie?
This is what I'm doing. Luckily my state votes on Super Tuesday so it should be clear whether Sanders or Warren are more viable, but I will vote for whichever of them I feel has a better shot at winning the nomination over Biden.

That being said, if Biden is the nominee and the general is him against Trump? Biden, no contest. Fucking with write-in or third party votes is foolish.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,966
So, hypothetically speaking, if the choices come down to Bernie, Biden and Warren, but Warren is polling poorly in your state and voting for her would be the equivalent to voting Biden, would you vote for Bernie?
Illinois currently has Biden at 23%, Warren at 17% and Bernie at 15%.

I'm not voting for Bernie until the GE and even then, I'm in a safe blue state.

Both the single term old men shouldn't have even joined this primary because they're irresponsible assholes.
100% agreed. Neither Bernie or Biden should be in this race at their age.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
And it'll allow the next fascist despot to rise from the GOP trash heap to do the same. 'Normalcy' is how we ended up here. Trump isn't abnormal, he's a creation of the system moderates desperately want to go back to.

The center cannot hold.
Bingo. There will absolutely be someone worse than Trump right around the corner if we don't confront the issues systemic to America now.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
If electibility against Trump in the general is the literal only standard someone uses to judge who they will support, the ironic truth is that sanders has beaten trump head to head in pretty much every match up going back to 2016, and this is not something you can say for many of the same candidates.

While the prevailing notion among centrists is that biden being a republican with a D in his name would keep democrats and republicans on board with him, the reality is that he would simply gain insufficient amounts of both. Saying he likes republicans isnt going to get many republicans on his side. its just going to get a good portion of would be supporters of democrats to check out because it then becomes a lose lose battle of supporting the status quo. and republicans will circle the wagons in order to protect what they have going now at all costs, especially as an incumbent power.

Someone who is actually advocating for real intersectionality on the other hand can surpass the political aspects of "i need X amount of republicans and dems" and appeal to those people who are either not accounted for in the political process, or those who have been counted out as unikely support and use that to grow real momentum that isnt limited to people 60 and over.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
33,070
Bernie Sanders could easily beat Trump if the party backed him imo. Republicans will use Obama adjacent smears to hell and back against Joe, they will stick. Trump will also make him look weak as fuck during debate.
Obama is like stupidly popular. The idea that smearing Biden as Obama-lite will get people to go away feels kinda silly, especially when it's why he's currently winning.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Bingo. There will absolutely be someone worse than Trump right around the corner if we don't confront the issues systemic to America now.
things are only getting worse as power concentrates and people are radicalized in response.

People are lying to themselves if they believe there is any viable future under a corporate and capital dominated status quo like the democrats and GOP in washington want to continue as far as possible to enrich themselves.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
If electibility against Trump in the general is the literal only standard someone uses to judge who they will support, the ironic truth is that sanders has beaten trump head to head in pretty much every match up going back to 2016, and this is not something you can say for many of the same candidates.

While the prevailing notion among centrists is that biden being a republican with a D in his name would keep democrats and republicans on board with him, the reality is that he would simply gain insufficient amounts of both. Saying he likes republicans isnt going to get many republicans on his side. its just going to get a good portion of would be supporters of democrats to check out because it then becomes a lose lose battle. and republicans will circle the wagons in order to protect what they have going now at all costs, especially as an incumbent power.

Someone who is actually advocating for real intersectionality on the other hand can surpass the political aspects of "i need X amount of republicans and dems" and appeal to those people who are either not accounted for in the political process, or those who have been counted out as unikely support and use that to grow real momentum that isnt limited to people 60 and over.
Sanders had two head-to-heads in the last month where he loses to Trump

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

His numbers are softer than Biden's in every poll in RCP's current average except one where he matches the margin:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

Also typically does worse across the board in swing state polling:

EIhu4EbW4AILGeT


(except Michigan for some reason.)

Those NYT/Siena polls also screened for likely voters in that poll, which gave Trump the lead over Sanders in all but Michigan (+3 Sanders) and Wisconsin (tie), which would hand Trump the victory. Biden's tie in Michigan would turn into a lead and he would still lead in the other four states, giving him over 300 electoral votes.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Sad for America that the people most in need of Bernies policies will be railroaded by Centrists craving for a way to vote Conservative but get the Democrat bow on the parcel.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
Bernie and Biden have nearly identical polling numbers in the general. Bernie may get dogpiled for being a socialist, but Biden is going to get absolutely destroyed for being senile. I can already see the 24 hour media asking if Biden is mentally fit to lead while ignoring Trump's same issues. Biden also doesn't inspire any sort of enthusiasm and would be pure poison for youth voter turnout.

For Sanders though, the only thing they'll be able to criticize him on is his socialist agenda. Which the GOP is extremely bad at.

41i8xp5194921.jpg


Sanders is clearly more electable than Biden.
 
Nov 13, 2017
464
I'm hoping Bernie would win because since we have a shit stain of a prime minister called Boris Johnson in the UK, I'd feel a bit more easy that Johnson is going to negotiate with Sanders on a trade deal that would keep things like our NHS as it is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,916
I sat home for Hillary and I'll sit home for Biden. Having a president Trump doesn't completely fuck up my life like it will for some other people so it doesn't matter to me if I get another 4 years of him.

I would like to vote for someone else but I haven't gotten any good options past the primaries yet. I'm still upset that Rosemary Brown won the last election I voted in.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
I sat home for Hillary and I'll sit home for Biden. Having a president Trump doesn't completely fuck up my life like it will for some other people so it doesn't matter to me if I get another 4 years of him.

I would like to vote for someone else but I haven't gotten any good options past the primaries yet. I'm still upset that Rosemary Brown won the last election I voted in.

85749180.gif
 
Nov 13, 2017
464
I sat home for Hillary and I'll sit home for Biden. Having a president Trump doesn't completely fuck up my life like it will for some other people so it doesn't matter to me if I get another 4 years of him.

I would like to vote for someone else but I haven't gotten any good options past the primaries yet. I'm still upset that Rosemary Brown won the last election I voted in.

Oh boi, you're flying too close to the sun with this comment.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,321
For Sanders though, the only thing they'll be able to criticize him on is his socialist agenda.




There are plenty of things Sanders will be attacked on both genuinely and disingenuously. Don't bullshit yourself and everyone else into thinking otherwise.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,977
I sat home for Hillary and I'll sit home for Biden. Having a president Trump doesn't completely fuck up my life like it will for some other people so it doesn't matter to me if I get another 4 years of him.

I would like to vote for someone else but I haven't gotten any good options past the primaries yet. I'm still upset that Rosemary Brown won the last election I voted in.

At least you're honest about not giving a shit about anyone else but yourself 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Bernie and Biden have nearly identical polling numbers in the general. Bernie may get dogpiled for being a socialist, but Biden is going to get absolutely destroyed for being senile. I can already see the 24 hour media asking if Biden is mentally fit to lead while ignoring Trump's same issues. Biden also doesn't inspire any sort of enthusiasm and would be pure poison for youth voter turnout.

For Sanders though, the only thing they'll be able to criticize him on is his socialist agenda. Which the GOP is extremely bad at.

41i8xp5194921.jpg


Sanders is clearly more electable than Biden.

Someone who owns a pro progressive agenda and explains to people what that's like in their own lives will turn it into a strength rather than a handicap.

Its far easier for people to strawman you into a looney lefty when your so scared of being called one...like Obama. Your then doing their bidding as well as losing the messaging war. of course that's giving Obama the benefit of a doubt that he actually was just scared of being attacked rather than actually believing in that neoliberal ideology to begin with.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont

People seem to think because he hasn't been attacked he can't be or somehow that there's no criticisms to be had. If he gets the nomination they'll find out real quick how wrong they were.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Obama is like stupidly popular. The idea that smearing Biden as Obama-lite will get people to go away feels kinda silly, especially when it's why he's currently winning.
I don't see any salt of the Earth crusty Republicans running towards Biden over Bernie. Joe is taking a fool's gamble. He will only get the voters he's pining for when he throws some Lib tenet under the bus.

Bernie's politics and class consciousness are much more appealing.
 

BrutalInsane

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,080
Yeaaaaaah. If you think Bernard is bulletproof if he wins the nom, I have some toxic waste to ship to your community.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,272
Sydney
A Biden Presidency seems doomed to dissipate all the energy in the electorate and send the country in the arms of a worse conservative figure than Trump in the near future.
 

InspectorJones

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,627
If Biden is the best we can do (and he probably will win), we're pretty much fucked going forward, over the mid/long term.

Pretty much how I feel if Biden wins the primary; it'll just mean a slightly slower death rather than our stupidly rushed death under Republican rule. I don't know how else you can interpret "...No one's standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change."

As a younger person, I can tell you NO ONE under the age of 30 understands why this clown appeals to so many people.

This fucking country is dumb as rocks and every day just convinces me further. And it's a big issue because no one is willing to budge on their beliefs even a little, and yes I know that problem also applies to me and anyone else who identifies as far left in America.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
I don't see any salt of the Earth crusty Republicans running towards Biden over Bernie. Joe is taking a fool's gamble. He will only get the voters he's pining for when he throws some Lib tenet under the bus.

Bernie's politics and class consciousness are much more appealing.

He's a Jewish Democrat advocating for expanding social programs. No part of that appeals to Republicans no matter how hard to wish it.

Pretty much how I feel if Biden wins the primary; it'll just mean a slightly slower death rather than our stupidly rushed death under Republican rule. I don't know how else you can interpret "...No one's standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change."

You're really taking that quote out of context.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
A Biden Presidency seems doomed to dissipate all the energy in the electorate and send the country in the arms of a worse conservative figure than Trump in the near future.

This doesn't make sense. If we're arguing the hypothetical backlash impact from a particular candidate winning, how can you argue Biden would be worse than a further left candidate like Warren or Bernie?
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,134
As long as this is their tactic, the youth will remain unreliable.

Then... Vote in the primaries for your candidate of choice?

Honestly, this sounds childish. We're currently in the primary season. If my candidate of choice doesn't win, should I throw my hands up and refuse to vote for the eventual candidate? That just strikes me as immature.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,272
Sydney
This doesn't make sense. If we're arguing the hypothetical backlash impact from a particular candidate winning, how can you argue Biden would be worse than a further left candidate like Warren or Bernie?

Any Democrat will generate backlash from the Republicans, it's why you cannot rely on them as a voting bloc, and why the strategy of Biden's in expecting them to go back to normal after Trump leaves is doomed.

A successful Democratic President will need to drive turnout, and continue to drive it after they're elected.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,966
Wouldn't you say the same about this person?
I'm not protest voting because the person I want isn't the nominee. You're ambivalent about another 4 years of Trump. I think that would destroy the country for decades. Not sure we're of the same ilk but idk.

Pretty much how I feel if Biden wins the primary; it'll just mean a slightly slower death rather than our stupidly rushed death under Republican rule. I don't know how else you can interpret "...No one's standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change."

As a younger person, I can tell you NO ONE under the age of 30 understands why this clown appeals to so many people.
He told rich donors that they need to chip in more but their standard of living would not fundamentally change. Which is true, even under the implementation of Bernie's or Warren's wealth taxes. Biden then rolled out a fairly progressive tax plan.

I'm under the age of 30 and understand why Biden appeals to people... It's not really that perplexing tbh
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
I sat home for Hillary and I'll sit home for Biden. Having a president Trump doesn't completely fuck up my life like it will for some other people so it doesn't matter to me if I get another 4 years of him.

I would like to vote for someone else but I haven't gotten any good options past the primaries yet. I'm still upset that Rosemary Brown won the last election I voted in.
What an outrageously shit thing to say. Good lord.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Any Democrat will generate backlash from the Republicans, it's why you cannot rely on them as a voting bloc, and why the strategy of Biden's in expecting them to go back to normal after Trump leaves is doomed.

A successful Democratic President will need to drive turnout, and continue to drive it after they're elected.

So it makes sense to nominate the person with the most support.

Your position is a further left candidate will motivate more backlash but this mythical young voter bloc will turnout in historic numbers to not only equal that but overcome it? Based on what?
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887

The GOP isn't going to bring up any of these examples. They're fair criticisms but certainly nothing that will cause outrage. The only media palatable thing you got in there is the Sex article that he wrote in the 1970's, which was a dumb sexual philosophy piece that he's apologized for.

The other thing is that all his current policy measures address all of these criticisms outside of reparations, which I would also like to see but is probably still too polarizing to run on.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,321
The GOP isn't going to bring up any of these examples.
You haven't been following politics long, have you?

They're fair criticisms but certainly nothing that will cause outrage.
Maybe if you're white they won't.

The media palatable thing you got in there is the Sex article that he wrote in the 1970's, which was a dumb sexual philosophy piece that he's apologized for.
And we all know how far an apology goes in politics, don't we?

The other thing is that all his current policy measures address all of these criticisms outside of reparations,
And people are well known for making measured judgements based on a politician's actual policy.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
One of the coolest petty things about a bernie nomination will be the people who spent the last four years shaming people for not voting last time rationalizing why they're staying home this time.
 

milkyway

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 17, 2018
3,018
The article is skeptical Biden won't win over Republicans because of Trump not losing any to Clinton? Every Republican who hated Trump was made to hate Clinton even more so seems like an unfair comparison. Picking a (perceived) moderate to go up against a (perceived) radical seems like a good strategy on paper, although it didn't work for Romney. It seemed like a candidate like Bernie could have beat Trump in 2016, but today, when Trump can lean on how great the economy is doing, I'm not so sure. From what I can see, Trump's popularity (where it matters to him) and imperviousness to criticism has only increased since 2016 - just take a look at the impeachment talks and how he has just about every Republican politician singing his "Democrats/the media are corrupt" tune. I'm not sure any Democrat is going to be hopeful to swing any significant amount of Republicans, but that independent vote may be harder to win over than it would have been in 2016, which is depressing but yea.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,272
Sydney
So it makes sense to nominate the person with the most support.

Your position is a further left candidate will motivate more backlash but this mythical young voter bloc will turnout in historic numbers to not only equal that but overcome it? Based on what?

Because even in theory, it's the only way forward.

Depending on a Republican realignment after a 2020 loss is not going to work, even in theory.