This nails it. Yes, there's arguing over fairness and who got how much forgiven, but without fixing the underlying system of tuition government loans serving as a funnel of cash for schools, it's all for naught.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Warren confronted by angry father over her plan to forgive student debt: “Those of us that did the right thing get screwed?”
- Thread starter BAD
- Start date
Disingenuous comparisons abound. How do you know if someone is empathizing if you will not talk and listen?
- that guy in video.
The twitter video misquotes him, though (it's a CHRISTIAN-MAGA-TRUMP supporter) as,
The "Father" in the video is ranting, but let's pay attention to him because it could be me. Sounds like fearmongering for a sound bite.
I understand his frustration, working all his life and paid so much, but yes he is clearly missing the point here that there has been little regulation on student loans and a lot of people have suffered because of it.
But then again if they increase taxes for this then I will feel more against it than if they can budget their spending better to not do so.
But then again if they increase taxes for this then I will feel more against it than if they can budget their spending better to not do so.
Yup, that's a selfish boomer alright.
"Why would you introduce a vaccine now? I got malaria, my father got malaria. So now what? You're just gonna save the people you can from the hardships I had to endure? That doesnt seem faaaaaaaaaaair."
If he had worked 3 jobs or chosen not to have children maybe he could get that car or vacation hes whining about.
And wont they see the benefits when their children dont have to take loans for the grandbabies? That money can now be spent on the selfish boomers getting an upgrade to a retirement home with Porsche beds for the boomer babies.
He agreed to the terms and got what he paid for (tuition). The world has no guarantee that everything you spend your money on will turn out exactly how you wanted. He paid for tuition, he presumably got tuition.
"Why would you introduce a vaccine now? I got malaria, my father got malaria. So now what? You're just gonna save the people you can from the hardships I had to endure? That doesnt seem faaaaaaaaaaair."
If he had worked 3 jobs or chosen not to have children maybe he could get that car or vacation hes whining about.
And wont they see the benefits when their children dont have to take loans for the grandbabies? That money can now be spent on the selfish boomers getting an upgrade to a retirement home with Porsche beds for the boomer babies.
He agreed to the terms and got what he paid for (tuition). The world has no guarantee that everything you spend your money on will turn out exactly how you wanted. He paid for tuition, he presumably got tuition.
Last edited:
Ideally any solution to this problem would help the past, present, and future.
These threads always devolve into the 3 camps arguing against each other though.
These threads always devolve into the 3 camps arguing against each other though.
Yes, this is a cogent point. A lot of posters will say (and have said in this thread) "BOOMER TROLLEY" or "typical FYGM mentality" or whatever but we can just ignore those posters because insults don't really mean anything and don't contribute to any meaningful discussion.
So let me start here: Person A is going to feel screwed compared to Person B. I think we can all agree on that. However, I will posit that most people with student loan debt are not Person A or Person B, but rather, there is a Person C, who far outnumbers people like Person A or Person B. Person C didn't really "decide" to make the minimum, or not at all, but rather is struggling to keep afloat. Person C's failure to pay off student loans is not due to some grievous moral failing or lack of hard work, but them simply getting screwed by the circumstances. Forgiving Person C's student debt would be helpful to everyone.
At the same time, is there a real problem with compensating Person A for paying off more of their loans within the past 10 years or whatever while Person B and Person C get their loans forgiven? The person in the video is obviously comparing himself to Person B, and in his narrowmindedness, is ignoring Person C. However, vis a vis Person B, Person A may have put off marriage, home ownership, parenthood, etc, because they thought they were being responsible in taking care of their debt. It's easy for me to understand why Person A feels screwed.
If you can draw a better line when it comes to the subject, you should do so. There will always be the people who will just miss the deadline.
I like UK's higher education government-issued loans. Low interest, the payments are % of your income starting above minimum salary, and the debt forgiveness kicks in if you cannot pay it back eventually. Capitalism and tuition did not mix well :(
Nothing that guy said deserves empathy. Again, it's straight up Reagan-era, 47% Romney conservative language concern trolling benefit programs: food stamps, minimum wage, healthcare - I've seen and heard it all from folks like that. It's a dog whistle and a willful performance to be shown on rightwing sites.
Now, if a leftist wants to push Warren from the left into accepting that whatever plans she has concerning college are too conservative and couched in capitalist compromise then that would be a different story. This guy wasn't doing that though, he straight went into "ME ME ME" and "THEM THEM THEM". Don't have time to coddle that selfishness.
Yeah, and like I said in my post, person C is sadly me and many of my friends ;_;
But I understand that my loans are from grad school and in my field I will eventually have the potential to pay them off comfortably one day. There are some people who have >100k in loans for a degree that has very little upward mobility and have a stagnant wage, causing them to struggle indefinitely. It's a hellish scenario that preys on the decisions of a 17/18 year old to prognosticate their future financial life; it just makes no sense for higher education to be this costly.
I'm not claiming to be any expert on policy making and budgeting. However, seeing that this is politics, public approval for your plans is important and responding the way Warren did is indeed going to rub a subset of voters wrongly. Warren currently offers $50k of loan forgiveness, while Bernie is offering complete loan forgiveness, so I'm sure there is more than enough money to go around. But I will admit my ignorance on how these decisions and policies are made.
There's also a Person D who rarely gets talked about, and won't get anything from any of these plans:
The person who did the "right thing" in deciding that going to college was too expensive for them, that taking out huge loans was unreasonable, and so went to either a lesser college or no college at all. They are basically 50 grand behind everyone else plus their degree (if they have one) is not as "prestigious" and they are competing for jobs with their counterparts who took out the loans. I'm only bringing it up because if we're going to be giving 50 grand of forgiveness out to people, recent college graduates are probably in the middle of that list.
Now reforming school costs will obviously help their kids (or if they somehow have the time as working adults to go back to school).
I like the UK approach to existing loans as well. Couple that with free community college/trade schools (and free state schools for graduates of same-state community colleges) and you've significantly benefited the current/future population with much lower costs than certain other proposals.
Good if they didn't sell the loans off to people who can change the terms at any time.
I have literally heard this from an anti-vaxxer about chicken pox before. "I got through it just fine. They should go through it. It builds character."
I'm not trying to make you feel bad or say you should've done something else. I'm just trying to explain that going into debt because it's your best option for a shot at a middle class life isn't a mistake.
Of course he deserves empathy. He's not evil, he's upset. He could be a MAGA fuckwad and he still deserves education and empathy. He's just as entitled to forgiveness as anyone.
Also, widespread student loan forgiveness is way different than your examples (e.g. food stamps). To conflate the two feels completely wrong.
Politically this is a dead end, there's millions and millions of people who feel like this guy (rightly or wrongly) who would never go for it. The young people who want it don't vote in significant numbers.
I'm actually for some kind of loan forgiveness though, it's become a drag on our economy. I think a good start would be a forgiveness of the interest on any outstanding loans (the gov't could pay the banks). It's a gradual step (I know how Era loves those) but I don't think it would be too controversial and could provide some relief.
I'm actually for some kind of loan forgiveness though, it's become a drag on our economy. I think a good start would be a forgiveness of the interest on any outstanding loans (the gov't could pay the banks). It's a gradual step (I know how Era loves those) but I don't think it would be too controversial and could provide some relief.
Well I'd say I started off as C but am now B. I started out by deferring my loans for 3 years or so as I was living paycheck to paycheck, and then I started repaying on the extended graduated repayment plan which is the absolute lowest I could get the payments to go. I actually don't think my principal has gone down at all. I've since switched to a standard plan, but there's still almost 20 years left on repayment.
I'm dragging my feet on it because I'm holding out hope that the TEPSLF program will still have funds when I approach my eligibility date, and I really just consider that portion of my paycheck to be lost forever. I'd rather use what's leftover on myself and my future than throw more into the black hole.
This is amazing hahahaha.For reference
Anyways, EVERYONE benefits from an educated society and if people are not stuck in poverty forever. Why is a win from someone considered your loss? It's shortsighted and selfish on top of that.
I don't think this is quite accurate and people keep saying it. A vaccine prevents disease going forward. And disease is not something you sign up for or have great flexibility on how to treat/manage. Vaccine would be tuition reform today which I don't think people would argue about. Not to mention bringing in a healthcare slant skews the argument as it involves life itself, not financial position in society going forward.
A way to flip this is to say mortgage forgiveness post financial recession. People with mortgages get them forgiven because of the financial institutions' wrongdoing, but people who live in apartments get nothing. The same argument of "because of high student loans I chose to/not to get a mortgage" would come into play. How do you as a politician address those two people and sell your plan without anyone feeling screwed over and left behind.
I hoped this would be posted early because it perfectly encapsulates why having nice things is hard, as long as you have people whining that they didn't get them in their day.For reference
For reference
It's millenials with loan debt on the left and [younger] zoomers about to go to college on the right, right?
This thread is full of opinions I agree with, but I also wonder if there's anyone here in the same situation as this guy? I can totally understand supporting freeing up student debt, and I think it's dumb to fight against it - but I can also totally understand being extremely frustrated if I was in this guy's situation.
I just don't think it's as easy as saying "lol fuck this selfish prick". We only get one life to live, and we only get so much money within that life - I can totally empathize with someone feeling as though they've completely wasted their money (obviously it's not a waste, but it would feel like that) and getting frustrated about someone getting a "free pass" for the same thing. Sure you can call it selfish, but not everyone feels the same way, reacts the same way, show a little compassion and empathy.
I often wonder if a 4-day work week will become the norm eventually (I'm an office rat), and jokingly say to people "Watch, it'll happen right as I'm retiring". Does that mean I'll fight against it and adopt the mindset that since I didn't get it, no one should? No - but I'll certainly lament the fact that people in my situation will have more time to live their life, and that would be deeply upsetting to me on a reflection-level. That's not the same situation as this guy (time vs money) - but I don't know - I think it's easy for anyone to say "lol fuck him" because it's too difficult for people to have a discussion about trying to understand his frustration.
I just don't think it's as easy as saying "lol fuck this selfish prick". We only get one life to live, and we only get so much money within that life - I can totally empathize with someone feeling as though they've completely wasted their money (obviously it's not a waste, but it would feel like that) and getting frustrated about someone getting a "free pass" for the same thing. Sure you can call it selfish, but not everyone feels the same way, reacts the same way, show a little compassion and empathy.
I often wonder if a 4-day work week will become the norm eventually (I'm an office rat), and jokingly say to people "Watch, it'll happen right as I'm retiring". Does that mean I'll fight against it and adopt the mindset that since I didn't get it, no one should? No - but I'll certainly lament the fact that people in my situation will have more time to live their life, and that would be deeply upsetting to me on a reflection-level. That's not the same situation as this guy (time vs money) - but I don't know - I think it's easy for anyone to say "lol fuck him" because it's too difficult for people to have a discussion about trying to understand his frustration.
If the mentality behind the legislation reflects the gross kneejerk reactions like that image, then this is doomed from the start. "ok boomer" when we're talking about Millenials and Gen X parents. Responsible middle class people aren't your enemy. No need to say "fuck you got mine" in return. Both can be helped if we had progressive taxes, assisted college tuition with cost controls and offer a tapered relief to lower income folk that responsibly paid their debt off in recent years.
Struggling people bringing up policy questions aren't your enemy. They can be won over.
Struggling people bringing up policy questions aren't your enemy. They can be won over.
I agree, it shouldn't really be a mistake. However, whenever you do borrow something, expect to pay it back in due time.
Of course it's selfish, but it's not understandable?
Say the government said they were going to give 50 grand to half of the people, today, and they were going to decide by whether your address was an even or odd street number (let's give it to evens because I'm an even). That would benefit a lot of people, it would give money that would largely go back to the economy, and I think most people would genuinely feel good about giving it to those less fortunate than them.
It's the neighbor across the street who has the same house as you but now just got a free car out of it that you'll be upset about. Or the guy who's more well off than you who got the money. I mean, maybe you're the kind soul who doesn't care about any of that, and if so, I applaud you, but I can certainly understand the sentiment.
Money is always being moved and spent in ways I definitely don't endorse. At the very least this is going to people who are legitimately screwed otherwise and not bailing out some company or funding Trump's golfing adventures.
I was able to finish paying off my debts just last year not because I was screwed but because I got lucky. The system is fucked and forgiving this debt will help out the economy. Fuck the greedy ass people saying they got screwed just bc they didn't get help they didn't actually need.
If Bernie or Warren managed to wipe out the student debt, would that include private school loans?
"I'm a recent retiree, and they want to lower the price of gas. What about me, who used to drive to work and now doesn't? Why are you helping people get to work now? I've been screwed!"
This cuts to the heart of it. Worse programs get more money, like the military for example. Hand wringing over this issue sounds the same as when people worry about who's getting food stamps or other social welfare programs. People need the money. It's immoral to expect everyone else to drown because you managed to keep your head above water.
Private school debt is included. Warren isn't wiping out all student debt tho. There's a ceiling of $50k of debt. But she's the only who's going to do this via executive action via Dept. of Education regs.
If you have student loans, you can input numbers and info into this calculator to see how much of your debt would be canceled.
The thing to tell people like this is, yeah, sorry but you did get screwed, and if you want any positive change in that regard it is not coming from the Republicans.
I guarantee that if Warren instead decided to keep the student loan debt and just made college free, the tone in this thread would be very different.
Again - why not offer people like this guy tax credits? His student loan suffering is equitable and 100% as valid as anyone's. It's just as powerful in terms of financial improvement and arguably better.
Hahaha, you're probably so spot-on with this.
I would also love to hear his response if he was asked if he supports giving a tax credit to those like himself that paid off loans in the past. Then ask him if he supports reparations.
Probably because you would have to address the other 60+% of the population who have not attended college. Those people are going to view this as a tax.
I fear that student debt forgiveness will be a political loser. It's all fun and good to laugh at this guy but Warren and Sanders better make damn sure public sentiment* is on their side on this issue before touting it in the general.
*By public sentiment I'm talking about more than ERA posters and people that live on Twitter.
*By public sentiment I'm talking about more than ERA posters and people that live on Twitter.
Free College starting tomorrow. Everyone keeps their student loan debt.
