Was JOKER a bad movie with a great performance or was it a great movie and I just didn't get it?
- Thread starter Soapbox Killer
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So what I meant was that the idea that people would be inspired and follow someone who is evil and agitates for violence doesn't seem so farfetched when you have seen the rise of Donald Trump. I'm not sure the film's balancing act of giving reasons for the Joker's actions while not condoning them was entirely successful, but I thought the film was captivating nonetheless.
Yes, that's a good way to put it.
It's a good movie that is a character study like There Will Be Blood. Sure you can extricate some themes out of it but you're just there to observe and understand a man. There isn't some big message, the dude is just someone who has issues and isn't treated well and we get to see what that does to him.
Just like how Daniel Plainview is a focused, greedy, and selfish man who we get to watch make choices and we get to see where that leads him.
Joaquin was fantastic.
Mediocre movie by a shit director with a fantastic performance by Joaquin. How highly you think of it likely correlates with whether you've seen King of Comedy (and Taxi Driver) or not. There is little art to the movie beyond Joaquin's performance, and a lot of the things the movie gets right it rips off pretty directly from better movies before it, and any deviations from those is where it shows its ass. Also it doesn't understand the message it tries to convey, and trying to shoehorn in the "it was all a dream" nonsense and the Waynes was the final nail on the coffin that exposes the artlessness of it.
I liked it. I spent most of the movie thinking it was trying to say something profound about something , but ultimately it had nothing to say. I wonder if THAT'S the joker's punchline. Things just are what they are and you'll go crazy trying to make sense of it.
Maybe I'm looking too much into it.
Maybe I'm looking too much into it.
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"The worst part about having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you DONT" was another moment that made me groan. That agonizingly slow push in to reveal the most rudimentary understanding of mental illness imaginable disguised as something really deep.
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This is a fair point. I didn't mean to phrase it in with such a Sith framework. It was a perfectly fine movie however it did some very strange things with source material.
I also went in fairly dark with only knowing a few plot tidbit, so when a movie is nominated for Best Picture and an Actor wins an Oscar, it may bestow certain expectations and that is my fault as the viewer. That's why I like to watch things 1st week. Less of a chance for me to make up what the movie should be and just allow it to be.
I think it was a good movie for what it set out to do, the performances were great. Joaquin Phoenix was creepy as fuck. Nothing about the movie made me feel exceptional, and there was nothing I could relate to... so I guess that is why nothing stuck to me. I can see how people don't care for the movie.
The movie itself is fantastic. Not even considering the terrific execution, but from a meaning standpoint it has so much to say about the way the systemic injustices of modern society affect the larger and larger portion of society that is underprivileged. It's about how someone like Joker really could be created by the very real problems that exist not as bugs in the system, but as features.
It was compelling, beautiful, intense and well acted. Shallow as all hell, but I was thoroughly entertained.
Basically my opinion.
Phoenix is really damn good, but the story never made me feel like Arthur's situation was relevant or interesting. And the attempt to tie his story to the city's class struggle was toothless.
It was a mediocre movie with great acting and great camera and score.
So, overall, it was a good movie, just not as brilliant as some people clearly thought it was.
So, overall, it was a good movie, just not as brilliant as some people clearly thought it was.
You don't watch Joker for the story or the surroundings. You watch it for Joaquin Phoenix giving one hell of a performance
It's an okay movie with a fine performance. It's a 6/10, no better, no worse, and the reactions it elicited on both ends of the spectrum were absurd and overblown.
it was an interesting movie until it turned into a JOKER movie halfway through then it was just absurd and eyeroll-inducing
joaquin phoenix made it bearable
joaquin phoenix made it bearable
I'm still genuinely dumbfounded by this movie. I can't tell if it's self-aware with how awkwardly some of the scenes play out. Like it's all playing out in Arthur's head and we're viewing his perception of himself. Even the murders and riots at the end feel so ridiculous and over the top that I couldn't tell if it was real or not.
Then again I don't know if I should be putting much stock in some meta-level type filmmaking by Todd Philips so maybe taking it at face value makes more sense.
Then again I don't know if I should be putting much stock in some meta-level type filmmaking by Todd Philips so maybe taking it at face value makes more sense.
Was it?
It was cinematography and dancing. Nothing about it promised a good movie.
It's Taxi Driver but worse. Joaquin Phoenix was fine but he's great in everything, and this movie didn't give him much to work with.
I understand the praise because it's a deeper comic book movie than most, and thats whats hot right now....but disregarding the Joker aspect, it's been done many times before, and better.
I understand the praise because it's a deeper comic book movie than most, and thats whats hot right now....but disregarding the Joker aspect, it's been done many times before, and better.
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Im with you but then the Waynes get murdered (again) as the would have in the canon.
It was better than I thought it would be, which is probably because I'm completely burned out on what has become the run of the mill norm for comic book movies. And especially DC movies, they've been complete garbage. I wouldn't call it a classic or even a personal favorite, but I found it enjoyable.
I wasn't disappointed by the movie but yeah that trailer was so good, in a time when we don't really seem to get great trailers so much. You can basically get the essence of the movie from the trailer.
But would Arthur have a deep understanding of mental illness to write something with more substance?
Imagine coming out of the theatre and saying Joker was fun...
Had a lot of fun watching it. Joker is one of my favorite comicbook characters.
Honestly I think the film would have been better if they remove the whole aspect of the city rising up and starting a riot at the end. That aspect just wasn't fleshed out enough and the fact that the riots mistook Arthur's actions to be of someone who wants to fight the system just dampens that, and I am consistently shocked by people who say that the message of the film is about fighting the rich because for me it was just not there.
It could have been a much better film if they focused on Arthur and just how the world affects him. But I guess it might not feel like a Joker film in that case?
I really appreciated that even tho it was R rated they did the Arthur Fleck past reveal the way they did
Yup. Utterly forgettable and pointless but the acting was solid.
Pretty much. The movie Joker is dumb people's idea of what a deep movie is.