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Was JOKER a bad movie with a great performance or was it a great movie and I just didn't get it?
- Thread starter Soapbox Killer
- Start date
There were plenty of great movies last year. Movies I am over the moon for.
Joker was not one of them, because it wasn''t particularly good. Sorry, this self-deluded narrative that its detractors must be these hateful misanthropes that have no joy is woefully misguided.
I still don't understand why they had to use music from a pedophile at the stairs scene.
Okay, you might want to add depth or deeper meaning to the scene but you are also paying money to a convicted pedophile and give him exposure.
The movie was okay - not great not the worst, elevated by a stellar performance.
Okay, you might want to add depth or deeper meaning to the scene but you are also paying money to a convicted pedophile and give him exposure.
The movie was okay - not great not the worst, elevated by a stellar performance.
It felt pretentious and the entire time I couldn't help but notice Phoenix acting. The best performances for me are ones that make me forget entirely that I'm watching someone perform, and just embody the role.
I didn't get that at all, personally.
I didn't get that at all, personally.
i never watched it, tbh, because i'm completely uninterested in whatever todd phillips has to say -- if i watched a lot more movies, i'd make time for it, but there's still a bunch of interesting stuff from last year i haven't got around to yet
It's not a bad movie by my opinion. A bad piece of art would be one which doesn't nail what it wants to be. But Joker kinda nails it. It's just that it never seemed to me like it wanted to be a new Taxi Driver or Kings of Comedy, but more of well an Elseworld Joker movie that wants to be different to what you normally see as comic movie these days.
You pretty much contain the germ of the answer in your post. You said that 'non-critics' praised the movie, and you're on a forum that's defined by people who are at the very least critic adjacent, in that they're very into video games and other forms of culture. Which means you're going to come across a lot more people here who enjoy a wider range of cinema than 'the mainstream', and probably have seen a bunch of films that make Joker look like the vapid exercise that it is. It's like saying McDonalds is delicious, and the height of culinary achievement. It ain't, it's just junk food. At least it knows its junk food and doesn't pretend to be anything else.
It's kind of funny that you immediately went to the most 'common-people' restaurant for your comparison to make your own opinion sound more high-class.
For me personally I've seen a ton of films that "would make Joker look like the vapid exercise it is." However I'm not snobby enough to demand that a film made for 'the mainstream' be as 'subtle' and 'deep' as films made for festivals and the Oscars. It doesn't need to be, and personally the fact that this film is so popular despite being a character-driven drama about mental health and class struggles is commendable. There's a middle-ground between films that film students can wank over and films that are purely made for trashy entertainment and nothing else.
Outstanding post. Bravo! Goes well with this one:
It was an okay, not great, film with a fantastic lead performance. It doesn't come close to the movies it's trying to live up to, but it's alright.
The moral panic surrounding it was embarrassing.
The moral panic surrounding it was embarrassing.
It was an uncomfortable/meh movie with an amazing performance. I felt like they had too many ideas and tried to marry them and it didn't necessarily work, but Joaquin somehow made it work.
2019 was a great year for movies
Parasite
Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Marriage Story
The Irishman
The Lighthouse
Ready or Not
Ad Astra
High Life
Doctor Sleep
Parasite
Portrait of a Lady on Fire
Marriage Story
The Irishman
The Lighthouse
Ready or Not
Ad Astra
High Life
Doctor Sleep
It's a real dumb movie posturing as a real smart movie, bolstered by a performance the script doesn't deserve. It's a terrible film
How in the world are "shallow" and "mediocre" not entirely reasonable critiques of this movie?? You seem to be confused as to why people feel this way about it. You say "you understand if it's not my kind of movie" but it very much is my kind of movie. I'm a big fan of the movies this movie is a sophomoric homage to.
I'm very happy for you that you adore this movie, but more than 50% of the film's I've seen during my life are better than The Joker, so 'mediocre' is more than a fair description.
It's an excellent depiction of career deviance into criminality while taking into account the constant negation and the unreliable narrator that results from it. It also doubles as a depiction of the myth of the (new york) crime wave, and its passage into mythical reality as people believe things happened or were.
The primary clue to 'this whole movie is a psycho defending his privilege by use of unreliable narration' is the depiction and use of blackness. It's not a coincidence that the last person we see him talking to (as well as black women being the only people to actually listen to him) is a black female psychologist, that is: the establishment, thereby validating the implied murder.
So, like Nightcrawler, it is a great film but requires certain 'expert' knowledge to work.
I now eagerly await people saying I made these terms up or whatever, or that I am an awful person or something, all because I can apparently read something you can't. Also , watch Mindhunter on Netflix for reference.
It's an interesting product as an exercise in the wasteland of psychopaths inability to be dramatic characters, since they have no empathy. How do you create drama without drama? You fake it, which is what this movie is "about". I wouldn't watch it again for fun though. But not having a feel-good 'point' is not the same as being a bad film.
Edit: the other clue being the cinematography. Every time he moves up or down a stair, his emotional state is the opposite of what the camera is showing the viewer. Up: miserable, down: happy. The camera is 'honest' tobsome degree, even if the chatacter as the narrator isn't.
The primary clue to 'this whole movie is a psycho defending his privilege by use of unreliable narration' is the depiction and use of blackness. It's not a coincidence that the last person we see him talking to (as well as black women being the only people to actually listen to him) is a black female psychologist, that is: the establishment, thereby validating the implied murder.
So, like Nightcrawler, it is a great film but requires certain 'expert' knowledge to work.
I now eagerly await people saying I made these terms up or whatever, or that I am an awful person or something, all because I can apparently read something you can't. Also , watch Mindhunter on Netflix for reference.
It's an interesting product as an exercise in the wasteland of psychopaths inability to be dramatic characters, since they have no empathy. How do you create drama without drama? You fake it, which is what this movie is "about". I wouldn't watch it again for fun though. But not having a feel-good 'point' is not the same as being a bad film.
Edit: the other clue being the cinematography. Every time he moves up or down a stair, his emotional state is the opposite of what the camera is showing the viewer. Up: miserable, down: happy. The camera is 'honest' tobsome degree, even if the chatacter as the narrator isn't.
Personally it was my movie of the decade.
The Joker is my favorite villain and the movie exceeded my expectations.
At the end I sat there silently thinking about what I just saw: I wanted to see the Joker and there he was at the end of the movie. A man who just wants to see the world burn.
Right then I immediately wanted to see a sequel that is 100% unfiltered Joker madness, a dance of chaos.
The Joker is my favorite villain and the movie exceeded my expectations.
At the end I sat there silently thinking about what I just saw: I wanted to see the Joker and there he was at the end of the movie. A man who just wants to see the world burn.
Right then I immediately wanted to see a sequel that is 100% unfiltered Joker madness, a dance of chaos.
It's a strange film, I persolly think it's a bad movie with a good performance.
The overarching plot was kind of stupid and it was bogged down by far too many long scenes of the joker doing trivial things like dancing which I think were intended to show how messed up he was as a person but ultimately were a drag on the film
The overarching plot was kind of stupid and it was bogged down by far too many long scenes of the joker doing trivial things like dancing which I think were intended to show how messed up he was as a person but ultimately were a drag on the film
"Why is Era so negative"
"Sorry, but that movie you liked was shit".
lmfao.
The movie is okay, not memorable if I have to be truthful. Phoenix's excellent performance is what made the movie seem good.
Didn't like the movie and didn't even care for the performances. Cinematography was great, movie looked and sounded nice. Batman stuff was dumb as hell, Arthur ends up being a horrible interpretation of the Joker and the movie beating you over the head with the unreliable narrator styled twist just made me want to see it end.
I liked it, if only for its uniqueness within the genre. Joaquin gave an awesome performance, but the movie really did it just dip its feet in the water of complex issues without actually saying much just to be able to say the movie is "deep."
It's a worthwhile watch though. I wish Joaquin could've given such a killer performance in a movie that didn't stigmatize those with mental health, tho
It's a worthwhile watch though. I wish Joaquin could've given such a killer performance in a movie that didn't stigmatize those with mental health, tho
"shallow" is a completely accurate way to describe this movie. it's not deep no matter how hard it tries to be
I think a lot of people find this movie unimpressive without getting involved in this whole DC or Marvel brand thing of yours.
The movie could be a great gateway into arthouse cinema if arthouse cinema fans weren't always loudly calling it shit
It's not "mine" lol. This is what Era does. Can't have any worthwhile discussion about a DC film without the usual suspects showing up and being salty :)
It feels like you're too biased and too invested in this whole DC thing to have a "worthwhile discussion" on the matter.
It's a top 50 highest rated movie of all time on IMDB, that say it all about its quality.
Let's just agree that Era is just heavily biased toward this movie since the beginning.
Amazing cinematography, great score, incredible acting, good story. It's at least a solid movie.
Let's just agree that Era is just heavily biased toward this movie since the beginning.
Amazing cinematography, great score, incredible acting, good story. It's at least a solid movie.
Movies that the IMDB user base think Joker is better than, which is definitely true:
- Dr Strangelove
- Oldboy
- Sunset Blvd
- The Shining
- Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Apocalypse Now
- Aliens
- Braveheart
- Vertigo
- Full Metal Jacket
- Citizen Kane
- Taxi Driver
Illuminating.