Washington Post - The Afghanistan Papers: Documents Reveal U.S. Officials Misled Public

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Titanpaul

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Jan 2, 2019
848

"With most speaking on the assumption that their remarks would not become public, U.S. officials acknowledged that their warfighting strategies were fatally flawed and that Washington wasted enormous sums of money trying to remake Afghanistan into a modern nation."
"“What did we get for this $1 trillion effort? Was it worth $1 trillion?” Jeffrey Eggers, a retired Navy SEAL and White House staffer for Bush and Obama, told government interviewers. He added, “After the killing of Osama bin Laden, I said that Osama was probably laughing in his watery grave considering how much we have spent on Afghanistan.”
The documents also contradict a long chorus of public statements from U.S. presidents, military commanders and diplomats who assured Americans year after year that they were making progress in Afghanistan and the war was worth fighting."
"The Post has asked a federal judge to force SIGAR to disclose the names of everyone else interviewed, arguing that the public has a right to know which officials criticized the war and asserted that the government had misled the American people. The Post also argued the officials were not whistleblowers or informants, because they were not interviewed as part of an investigation. A decision by Judge Amy Berman Jackson of the U.S. District Court in Washington has been pending since late September.
The Post is publishing the documents now, instead of waiting for a final ruling, to inform the public while the Trump administration is negotiating with the Taliban and considering whether to withdraw the 13,000 U.S. troops who remain in Afghanistan."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/
 
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Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,973
Greater Vancouver
I'm reading through this and... no shit? Who was still under the impression that Afghanistan was a worthwhile war effort after 17+ years of throwing people into a meat grinder?
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,137
America and Britain specifically as well as others in Middle East jollies took the bait or used the excuse to go in and then some, Iraq etc. Completely pointless and of course they are still boot licking SA.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,596
If you can't explain why you're there and what your win condition is then it's time to get out. It's project management 101 except failure costs lives and unimaginable amounts of money.

Also the entire thing cost $1 trillion dollars for nothing but human suffering so anyone complaining about how we could possibly pay for health care or school should be shown the door.
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
1,304
I'm reading through this and... no shit? Who was still under the impression that Afghanistan was a worthwhile war effort after 17+ years of throwing people into a meat grinder?
You'd think everyone would be in agreement on this but then you look at George W Bush's recent favorability ratings and get depressed.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,078
You'd think everyone would be in agreement on this but then you look at George W Bush's recent favorability ratings and get depressed.
This. We’ve just this year been dealing with people who should otherwise know better working hard to whitewash Bush and in turn the entire administration despite the overwhelming evidence:
 

platocplx

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,126
afghanistan and iraq were all lies. and We were fucking stupid to go, We shouldve learned from russias past history and stayed out of there.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
Fucking propoganda war, built on lies. On top of that, Afghanistan has never been successfully invaded or held afaik. So many Afghan people dead, and for what?
 
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Masterz1337

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,612
The war was clearly mismanaged but I don’t understand people who think we should have never been there. Like did people just forget 9-11 and that Afghanistan was their base of operations?
 

Powdered Egg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,657
The war was clearly mismanaged but I don’t understand people who think we should have never been there. Like did people just forget 9-11 and that Afghanistan was their base of operations?
It wasn't worth fucking our economy over,
exacerbating pre-existing wealth gaps, and wasting Obama's first term. War is fucking dumb. You hit the people that got you and bounce, period if anything.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,483
It was a doomed war from the jump. There was no opposing army, just centuries of ideology and decades of propaganda that we helped reinforce by simply being there.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,966
Great article. Anyone saying "duh, we knew that" is missing the point. Two adminstrations basically lied to us and themselves about the reality of the situation, costing tons of money and lives. What a fucking disaster.
 
Jul 7, 2019
745
Iraq was the one we lied to get in to. I don’t get the posts suggesting this one was bullshit, too. Is there really that much confusion about this? 18 years, thousands of lives, and a trillion dollars is bullshit, obviously, but there was a “reason” in 2001.
 

bane833

Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,312
So $ 1 Trillion and tens of thousands of deaths for absolutely nothing? Probably the same amount of money went into the equally pointless Iraq war. Imagine that money would´ve been spend on renewable energies. The US wouldn´t even need oil anymore.
 

MPrice

Alt account
Banned
Oct 18, 2019
654
You'd think everyone would be in agreement on this but then you look at George W Bush's recent favorability ratings and get depressed.
Ehh people can be in agreement that Iraq/Afghanistan was a failure and still be coming around on Bush. They are not intrinsically linked.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,483
The war was clearly mismanaged but I don’t understand people who think we should have never been there. Like did people just forget 9-11 and that Afghanistan was their base of operations?
But that was always a flimsy reason to invade and start a war with an entire country. And it was known around the time that Saudi Arabia was likely more responsible for the 9/11 attack and we haven’t done anything to them. Bin Laden having any responsibility for the attack was convenient for the US as it gave them an easy target to seem like they were giving an appropriate response to 9/11.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
"This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while." GWB on the eve of the war in Iraq.
 

bane833

Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,312
Iraq was the one we lied to get in to. I don’t get the posts suggesting this one was bullshit, too. Is there really that much confusion about this? 18 years, thousands of lives, and a trillion dollars is bullshit, obviously, but there was a “reason” in 2001.
There was no reason whatsoever to invade an entire country.
 

Alzarius23

Member
Oct 30, 2017
574
Fucking propoganda war, built on lies. On top of that, Afghanistan has never been successfully invaded or held afaik. So many Afghani people dead, and for what?
Afghani is a slur and I'm sure even US soldiers don't know that and keep repeating it and wonder why people hate them. It's either Afghan or Afghanistani.
 

MPrice

Alt account
Banned
Oct 18, 2019
654
How do you square this?
Im only referring to American citizens, who don't care as much about foreign policy nearly as much as domestic issues. If he could be forgiven for the recession and Katrina, he was definitely going to be forgiven for the Middle East. Also those wars spanned Obama's admin as well.
 

sangreal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,707
What a colossal waste of lives and money this war was and it is going to end with the Taliban back in charge
 

L.E.D.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
Oil execs and arms dealers disagree, it worked out better than they could have hoped!
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,932
The war was clearly mismanaged but I don’t understand people who think we should have never been there. Like did people just forget 9-11 and that Afghanistan was their base of operations?
You we should have gone and then been out of there within a month. Wipe out the Taliban and bounce. We fucked up by staying around and playing nation-builder.
 

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,562
Guys, how would we pay for Medicare for all!?

Guys, how do we pay for free college!?

People need to shut up about how will we pay for X when we can dump 1 trillion into a pointless war.
 

Commedieu

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,458
If you can't explain why you're there and what your win condition is then it's time to get out. It's project management 101 except failure costs lives and unimaginable amounts of money.

Also the entire thing cost $1 trillion dollars for nothing but human suffering so anyone complaining about how we could possibly pay for health care or school should be shown the door.
But the point is to sell weapons and bullets. Its really that simple. When you look at it this way, this was amazingly successful for the arms industry. It was not for nothing. It was for profit and destabilizing a region for further profit/easier access down the line. How many times can we see the same exact pattern and not notice it?
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,932
1 trillion would help americans more so than blowing up the middle east.. thats a fact at this point.

1 trillion doesn't WIN ALL WARS, or A war either, yet, its still being spent.
Obviously it’s a waste of money.

The point is that cutting it wouldn’t fund MFA. If we completely dismantled the entire DoD that wouldn’t cover MFA. It’s not a simple as “just cut military spending!” like many seem to think.
 

Commedieu

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,458
Obviously it’s a waste of money.

The point is that cutting it wouldn’t find MFA. If we completely dismantled the entire DoD that wouldn’t cover MFA. It’s not a simple as “just cut military spending!” like many seem to think.
Who said it would fund MFA in its entirety? --- Like, 100%.

The pushback for anything actually useful to americans quality of life is "how are we gunna pay for it?!" Or, "But this wont fund its entirety!" to be honest. Stepping a foot in the right direction would be 1 trillion towards programs to get the ball rolling for MFA. It is beyond ridiculous to argue from the point of "but it wont fund it totally" government doesn't even work like that, they fund things for decades and use different sources of allocataed money.. For example, cutting the budget + taxing the wealthy + having gigantic corporations actually pay taxes in America would all contribute.

Military spending is bloated, and we aren't getting any return.

Is it a problem for you that the government can just waste trillions of your money on shit, whats the plan? Eh, who knows just get the billions. But for something actually useful, it needs to be vetted beyond the realistic scope of how government actually functions? For health care...

everyones realistic plans have ways of funding, cutting the military budget would in fact, aid in those goals. Dems are just as war hungry as republicans, and that will never happen. But the point remains that its true.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,689
No fucking shit. You think we would've learned after Vietnam, but no. I think the American public tolerated it for so long because we don't have a draft this time.
 

Vanillalite

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,076
This is like fucking Vietnam all over again.

The whole this is just a massive mother fucking cluster fuck.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,932
Who said it would fund MFA in its entirety? --- Like, 100%.

The pushback for anything actually useful to americans quality of life is "how are we gunna pay for it?!" Or, "But this wont fund its entirety!" to be honest. Stepping a foot in the right direction would be 1 trillion towards programs to get the ball rolling for MFA. It is beyond ridiculous to argue from the point of "but it wont fund it totally" government doesn't even work like that, they fund things for decades and use different sources of allocataed money.. For example, cutting the budget + taxing the wealthy + having gigantic corporations actually pay taxes in America would all contribute.

Military spending is bloated, and we aren't getting any return.

Is it a problem for you that the government can just waste trillions of your money on shit, whats the plan? Eh, who knows just get the billions. But for something actually useful, it needs to be vetted beyond the realistic scope of how government actually functions? For health care...

everyones realistic plans have ways of funding, cutting the military budget would in fact, aid in those goals. Dems are just as war hungry as republicans, and that will never happen. But the point remains that its true.
Yea it would get the ball rolling. Maybe 2-3% of the way there over the same period of time, according to most estimates.

I was just replying to someone who implied that the cost of the war in Afghanistan and the cost of MFA are even comparable. They’re in different galaxies. It’s beyond ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

Note: I strongly support MFA and couldn’t possibly support the war in Afghanistan any less, having directly suffered physically and mentally because of it.
 

Somnid

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,099
Great article. Anyone saying "duh, we knew that" is missing the point. Two adminstrations basically lied to us and themselves about the reality of the situation, costing tons of money and lives. What a fucking disaster.
That's still a "duh, we knew that." Every, single nation building war we've had ended this way. It never works, Syria could be handled better but it also would not have worked. People lie to themselves and others because people are dying, don't you want to save them? Money is fake anyway right? I don't think anyone has an good answer other than you should never get into such situations in the first place.
 
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