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Deleted member 56266

Account closed at user request
Banned
Apr 25, 2019
7,291
Was going to play offline anyways so personally it doesn't affect much but there should absolutely not be any fear of playing the game online day 1. Blame is on them for this 100% and there should be consequences if the worst actually happens to some people.
 

Igniz12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,491
Anyone who has followed the game or even had a morbid curiosity on what new PC hacks are coming out could have probably told you this already. Fromsoftware and Bamco just dont care what happens to the online on PC despite selling gargantuan copies of the game on the platform.

Shameful stuff.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,539
Bandung Indonesia
Thread title: "Bandai Namco was aware of Dark Souls security exploit for years."

Second sentence of the article: "Well, it turns out that Bandai Namco might have been aware of this issue for quite some time."

Pretty important distinction between "the company absolutely knew about this" and "a blog or podcast or something says that some people say that they knew about this and told the company about it"

...Is it actually better if they didn't know about the exploit?
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,780
Wait, what the fuck? GOG Galaxy ALSO has a huge exploit in it that hasn't been properly fixed for two years and allows privilege escalation? And I'm just learning about this NOW?

Jesus christ Galaxy is being uninstalled SO FAST.

EDIT: Did anyone else know about this? I can't find a thread about this and it seems pretty serious to me.
 

spacer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,975
It's sucks that Elden Ring is affected by this too. If you're playing on console, what's the worst a hacker can do to you? Crash the game? If so, I'll take my chances...
 
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dom

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,474
We don't know yet. It's unlikely, at this stage, since it hasn't been seen yet, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. Whenever exploits that allow the running of unsigned code are found, they are typically used to "crack" consoles and allow, among other things to run other pieces of unsigned code more easily. The code that can be written to give people the ability to run unsigned code on their consoles could easily be edited to brick their systems but I don't know enough about the exploit to understand what kind of capabilities the code would have on a console.

What I do know for a fact is that it, or some variation of it, can be run on consoles and there have been cheaters found on console Dark Souls game before, albeit fewer than on the PC.

It's just straight up fear mongering for consoles.
 

cdudeachyut

Member
Jun 4, 2021
1,594
Hoping for another PvP watchdogs like mod for ER until FromSoft fixs this. Or maybe EAC prevents this?
 

GMM

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,484
Absolutely unacceptable if they knew about it and sat on it for years, this has immense potential for abuse and anyone selling such software should be held accountable for not fixing it when discovered. They sold a ton of copies on PC and really do not have any excuse if not getting ahead of it, do not buy Elden Ring on PC until it's clear it's not an issue and in general don't buy it to support behavior like this.

In regards to the consoles, even if the exploit was present on the consoles and people could send a malicious payload to another player, it's unlikely that there would be much to access given how they execute most software in a more strict userland layer to prevent kernel level access.
 
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DHR54

Oh well.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
688
Canada
If this genuinely worked on console versions wouldn't this would be potentially make any unpatched copy of these games a potential boot loader for custom firmware? Haha would be pretty funny. I have to imagine Lance know what he is talking about when he said it's not possible.
 

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,966
Wait, what the fuck? GOG Galaxy ALSO has a huge exploit in it that hasn't been properly fixed for two years and allows privilege escalation? And I'm just learning about this NOW?

Jesus christ Galaxy is being uninstalled SO FAST.

EDIT: Did anyone else know about this? I can't find a thread about this and it seems pretty serious to me.

Welp

There goes Galaxy i guess

CDPR need to get their fucking shit together
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
no chance am i buying this on console. sticking with pc and i'll be playing it online too. i'll take my chances but really they need to sort this ASAP.
 
Nov 13, 2017
1,632
I think people are forgetting that in Elden Ring, you have to open yourself up to invaders. They can't just show up in your world like in previous From games.

Doesn't help the exploit, but you can still play online at launch and never see an invader, provided you don't use the item.
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
I think people are forgetting that in Elden Ring, you have to open yourself up to invaders. They can't just show up in your world like in previous From games.

Doesn't help the exploit, but you can still play online at launch and never see an invader, provided you don't use the item.
yup, i've always played these games online. if you wanna pvp, invade, co-op you need to choose to do it. i never pvp but sometimes i do co-op. so i'll be going ahead as normal.
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,446
If only I had justified that statement... like maybe in the next paragraphs, which you ignored.
You didn't though. You said nothing to justify equivocating those two statements. You insinuated it's "selfish" to want to be able to play the game in its perfectly ready offline mode just because something about the magic experience of the online community, as if being able to enjoy the game offline on 2/25 precludes the online community from experiencing that magic whenever the exploit is fixed. It shouldn't be hard to understand how attitudes like "if the commmunity can't play the game online, then no one should be able to play it until it is fixed" feels like "fuck offline players" when you consider alternative outlooks like, "the community can't play the game online, but at least some players will be able to enjoy their preferred experience right away." The latter outlook does not imply "fuck online players." Whether delayed or not, the next few weeks/months will suck for online players if the exploit isn't fixed. The next few weeks/months will only suck for offline players if the game is delayed. Hopefully that doesn't happen (of course, the ideal scenario would be online gets fixed without needing a delay).
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
You didn't though. You said nothing to justify equivocating those two statements. You insinuated it's "selfish" to want to be able to play the game in its perfectly ready offline mode just because something about the magic experience of the online community, as if being able to enjoy the game offline on 2/25 precludes the online community from experiencing that magic whenever the exploit is fixed. It shouldn't be hard to understand how attitudes like "if the commmunity can't play the game online, then no one should be able to play it until it is fixed" feels like "fuck offline players" when you consider alternative outlooks like, "the community can't play the game online, but at least some players will be able to enjoy their preferred experience right away." The latter outlook does not imply "fuck online players." Whether delayed or not, the next few weeks/months will suck for online players if the exploit isn't fixed. The next few weeks/months will only suck for offline players if the game is delayed. Hopefully that doesn't happen (of course, the ideal scenario would be online gets fixed without needing a delay).

You know what, you taught me a valuable lesson. I'm going to stop replying to people that try to distort my words rather than quoting and addressing them as I said them, not as they perceive them. Thank you.
 

Adulfzen

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,619
I'd rather they launch Elden Ring with online disabled on PC rather than delay it if that's where things are heading, people who want online can just wait like people waiting for Halo Infinite coop.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,878
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
When I first heard about the issue, I assumed they'd just ignore it and let the community fix it again. At least by taking the PC servers offline, they're showing an intention of doing something about it. They've never bothered to fix all the exploits in the previous games where very obvious cheaters can ruin your save files or get you banned on PC.
 

Kineticn22

Member
May 25, 2021
142
Lisboa, Portugal
I'm getting so tired of some kind of crap or other happening to major game releases these last couple of years.

I swore off pre-orders, but ended up falling for the Elden Ring hype, as I'm a big Souls fan and have a lot of faith in From Soft, so this is really disappointing. Not gonna refund or anything and I will just play offline, but big game releases and PC gaming in general is starting to make me feel tired.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,681
I was feeling a bit down of probably missing this game at launch but guess I'll wait and see how this shakes out for consoles.

Worst case I'm just in a holding pattern till SoP launches in March.
 
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May 10, 2021
722
Germany
As a PC only player there is no way I pay money for a product whichs security issue has been intentionally ignored.

Playing offline would be possible, but still: I would give them money for something where I do not know when and if it will be fixed and cannot use a feature I payed for.

If they would at least say somehing like "We know about this and plan to fix it near launch window".
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,446
You know what, you taught me a valuable lesson. I'm going to stop replying to people that try to distort my words rather than quoting and addressing them as I said them, not as they perceive them. Thank you.
That's two low effort posts now where you couldn't be bothered to clarify your point and were instead snarky, whereas I have twice now taken the time to articulate why I disagree with something you said. If I've misunderstood what you meant, please feel free to support this contetion. Otherwise, you just come across as trying to get some last word in without actually doing the work of defending the statement I took issue with.
 

Eros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,710
so elden ring you have to choose to be invaded? how at risk would playing online coop be on pc?
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
That's two low effort posts now where you couldn't be bothered to clarify your point and were instead snarky, whereas I have twice now taken the time to articulate why I disagree with something you said. If I've misunderstood what you meant, please feel free to support this contetion. Otherwise, you just come across as trying to get some last word in without actually doing the work of defending the statement I took issue with.

I'm going to do one last reply. You can have the last word after that, I don't care about that. It just bothers me when people paraphrase rather than quote me and distort the message but let's not linger on that any further.

Let's imagine Elden Ring is a sports car designed for enthusiasts. Weeks before the car's release they discover the computer on the car has a problem that could lead to the destruction of the car if people attempted to ride on 4th gear or higher.

You can still drive the car perfectly safely up to third gear and I'm sure someone who only wants the car because of the way it looks or because of its build-quality can still get an enjoyable experience out of it, but the enthusiasts who most wanted the car can't use the car for the purpose the car was designed for.

Dark Souls and consequently Elden Ring are designed with multiplayer in mind. They are more often balanced around PVP issues than they are around PVE ones. Most of the covenants in the game are linked to the multiplayer aspect.

You also argued that I said:

it's "selfish" to want to be able to play the game in its perfectly ready offline mode just because something about the magic experience of the online community, as if being able to enjoy the game offline on 2/25 precludes the online community from experiencing that magic whenever the exploit is fixed.

That's not what I said exactly, but that's besides the point. But yes, yes it does make a difference, because if the game is released in offline mode and the online service is only enabled days or weeks after release, most players will either be halfway or at the end of the game and would have missed out on a great chunk of the multiplayer experience while leveling up and exploring the world.

Going back to my sports car analogy, if you bought that hypothetical sports car because you wanted to ride it fast, would you be content knowing that the car could only be driven up to third gear but at some point in the future, maybe a few weeks or a month or two from when you bought it, you'd be able to shift to the higher gears?

Even if you argue that you don't care about driving the car at high speed and it's perfectly enjoyable at lower speeds, you're dismissing how integral and how much people appreciate the multiplayer component because you just want to play it sooner.

And I'm not arguing that it's more selfish to want the game released in offline mode than it is to wait until the online mode is patched. I think both are selfish perspectives, like I said before. My disagreement with you stems from the fact that you think the multiplayer component is needless, because you can play the game offline, and delaying the online mode's release wouldn't affect anyone's enjoyment.

I completely disagree with that and I suspect most fans of the Souls series would agree because most people don't buy sports cars to drive them at cruising speeds.

There's a reason Souls fans do yearly "Return to <X>" events where they all replay specific Souls games at specific dates. It's to try to rekindle the experience of playing their favorite games with an active online community. It greatly enhances the experience. The first few days of a new Souls game are as fun and active as the online service ever gets, so it is, in fact, immensely impactful to launch the game without an online mode enabled.

I don't want the game to be delayed, I want to play it as soon as I can, but between a delay to have the game launched with its online service or only having offline mode at launch, I'd much prefer to have the delay.

Yes, I know I suck at metaphors.

Now you can have the last word. I'm out.
 
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Bardeh

Member
Jun 15, 2018
2,743
That fact that fans patched this exploit immediately (I read that's what the Blue Sentinel thing is?) means that there's surely no excuse for From not to have gotten it done by the time ER releases....right?
 

Bulebule

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,810
Yeah, no way in hell I'm going to do first playthrough online, console or PC. If I'm going to do some jolly co-oping/invading eventually, that's console only. Not excusable that the publisher knew but never told about it/fixed it.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
so elden ring you have to choose to be invaded? how at risk would playing online coop be on pc?
If that didn't change, the usual From Software system is when playing you play coop you open yourself to invasions. No choice over that. That's why I only play offline in those anyway. As a coop game, I consider them dead.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,426
I really think this will just mean the pc version gets delayed tbh. I don't seem them releasing the game with online turned off.

That's if they don't fix it by launch
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,446
I'm going to do one last reply. You can have the last word after that, I don't care about that. It just bothers me when people paraphrase rather than quote me and distort the message but let's not linger on that any further.
Hey fwiw I appreciate you taking the time to respond, especially knowing it can be frustrating to feel misunderstood or misrepresented. I originally quoted the statement I took issue with and not the rest as it was a long response that covered a lot of different points that I didn't necessarily have a problem with. While this is pretty common on these forums, there have been instances where I too have been annoyed by that in the past when I felt I'd supported my claim and it went ignored, so my bad and I won't be omitting any of your quote in this response.
Let's imagine Elden Ring is a sports car designed for enthusiasts. Weeks before the car's release they discover the computer on the car has a problem that could lead to the destruction of the car if people attempted to ride on 4th gear or higher.

You can still drive the car perfectly safely up to third gear and I'm sure someone who only wants the car because of the way it looks or because of its build-quality can still get an enjoyable experience out of it, but the enthusiasts who most wanted the car can't use the car for the purpose the car was designed for.

Dark Souls and consequently Elden Ring are designed with multiplayer in mind. They are more often balanced around PVP issues than they are around PVE ones. Most of the covenants in the game are linked to the multiplayer aspect.

You also argued that I said:

That's not what I said exactly, but that's besides the point. But yes, yes it does make a difference, because if the game is released in offline mode and the online service is only enabled days or weeks after release, most players will either be halfway or at the end of the game and would have missed out on a great chunk of the multiplayer experience while leveling up and exploring the world.

Going back to my sports car analogy, if you bought that hypothetical sports car because you wanted to ride it fast, would you be content knowing that the car could only be driven up to third gear but at some point in the future, maybe a few weeks or a month or two from when you bought it, you'd be able to shift to the higher gears?

Even if you argue that you don't care about driving the car at high speed and it's perfectly enjoyable at lower speeds, you're dismissing how integral and how much people appreciate the multiplayer component because you just want to player it sooner.

And I'm not arguing that it's more selfish to want the game released in offline mode than it is to wait until the online mode is patched. I think both are selfish perspectives, like I said before. My disagreement with you stems from the fact that you think the multiplayer component is needless and delaying the online mode's release wouldn't affect anyone's enjoyment.

I completely disagree with that.

I don't want the game to be delayed, I want to play it as soon as I can, but between a delay to have the game launched with its online service or only having offline mode at launch, I'd much prefer to have the delay.

Now you can have the last word. I'm out.
I appreciate your analogy, though for me, as someone who has both played online and completed all of their games offline, I think it somewhat misses the mark. Playing offline can be a perfectly exhilarating complete experience and doesn't feel nearly as nerfed or limited as not being able to drive my sports car in 4th or 5th gear would (since you couldn't even safely take it on the freeway in 3rd)! I'd say it's more like buying a new sports car but the passenger airbag is disabled and in the process of a recall. You can enjoy driving the car around on your own and take all the trips you want to take in the meantime, but it's understandably just not as fun for you to use while you can't take the passengers the car was obviously designed to accommodate. I get that, and I empathize. But in the meantime, as that hypothetical guy who doesn't mind cruising around alone, I just want my fucking car lol.

As for your point about the online experience being affected if the game releases in an offline-only state, this assumes that online enthusiasts will push through the game offline instead of waiting for the fix, and perhaps you're right about that. I probably naively assumed that online enthusiasts would just wait for the multiplayer issues to be resolved in this scenario and then hop in, more or less getting the same experience, just delayed. I was also thinking more from the other side as a typically offline player and how, even were the online mode ready to go, I'd still play offline on my first go so you'd be missing my company anyway. But I'm seeing now where you're coming from, even if my preference would obviously be offline mode at launch. Anyway, thanks again for clarifying and helping me understand your point of view a little better.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,978
I really think this will just mean the pc version gets delayed tbh. I don't seem them releasing the game with online turned off.

That's if they don't fix it by launch
That would suck so bad, brought an overpriced 3080 just to make sure I could brute force 4K on a from game. Would not want to wait and risk getting spoiled even a day, would have to settle for whatever performance the ps5 can offer…
 

General Zod

Member
Oct 27, 2017
337
Going to do single player (offline if I have to) only as I'm not looking to play with randos anyway. Too bad there's no couch co-op mode.
 

JoJo'sDentCo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,544
Did they actually know about it or not? I'm getting confused by the thread title and lines from the article.