We need to talk about how toxic discussing the Epic Games Store is when it comes to accusations and insults (Read OP and Threadmarks Before Posting)

[DrArchon]

Yep. The arguments around EGS have reached a level of toxicity that I never expected would happen for a PC games launcher. People are more heated and enraged by this than they were for any of the big console exclusive deals that pissed people off, and those were actually exclusive!

People need to calm the hell down and get some perspective. Just because EGS is a bad store/launcher, or you think that people are being too hard on devs that take EGS deals, it doesn't excuse harassment. Nothing does.

 

[Lothars]

I'm sorry for any personal attacks, that's not fair to you and shouldn't happen. Discussion about the EGS store is happening the way it is because the EGS store itself is toxic and with how tim sweeney is handling things and heck how the devs who take the deals are handling things are just as unacceptable as anyone attacking them for it. When a dev understandable decides to take the deal, which will be a benefit for them. they go on the offensive and attack customers. The ones latching on and attacking the devs are wrong but so are the people attacking people that are against the egs store.

It also doesn't help that it feels like egs threads are the wildwest.

I know the point of this thread is that both sides need to calm down but the examples of infractions in the OP make it clear who is way the fuck overreacting

Click to shrink...

It's got unbearable in most egs threads because it's low post count people trolling for the sake of it.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

Sounds worse than I realized, and I know those threads are bad.

Outrage culture (in and outside this forum) likes to develop a "shoot first and ask questions later" approach sometimes, compounded with folks wanting to paint the opposition as badly as possible. I try to to engage in debate in those threads for that exact reason, just not worth it.

 

[Catshade]

Let's have a chat? No, what we should do is stop chatting with trolls and bait posts and use the ignore function more liberally.

 

[AntiMacro]

Store fanboys isnt a topic that needs to be discussed.

Click to shrink...

That's not at all what I was saying.

 

[Patitoloco]

100% agree, it's really getting out of hand. I'm going further, and say that the STAFF POST aren't really helping, they are a warning that get completely ignored a couple of pages later.

Yep, it's getting to the point where I don't even go to threads where games get timed exclusivity on EGS. Way too much hostility. I don't like EGS, but there's ways to voice your frustration or vote with your wallet without being negative or toxic.

Click to shrink...

Me neither, it's horrible. It entered that lovely space of ignored subjects in my mind, like The Last Jedi posts.

 

[Transistor]

Let's have a chat? No, what we should do is stop chatting with trolls and bait posts and use the ignore function more liberally.

Click to shrink...

I swore I would never use the ignore function because I didn't want to create an echo chamber, but I might have to change that policy

 

[cirr]

gotta agree with bronson here

whyd the community make a new forum if gaming side ends up to be just as bad in brigading as le olde place
its just another video game store ffs

 

[Deleted member 2254]

There's a lot of fair criticism that can be aimed at Epic Store, but it's unfortunately one of those themes that simply can not be discussed in a civilized manner anymore. I chose to simply skip most related threads because they became too toxic, thus it goes with other teams where I just skip threads entirely knowing 99% of the comments beforehand anyway.

 

[Slayven]

I speak for myself, but I never got the hate. I can understand no liking how something turned out but at the end of the day it's a store selling recrational goods. Nothing on there is needed, and damn sure nothing on there is worth raising your blood pressure over and going insane

 

[Deleted member 42]

Thanks guys. I was admittedly pretty nervous about making a thread at all, especially considering some of the personal stuff in it.

I know the point of this thread is that both sides need to calm down but the examples of infractions in the OP make it clear who is way the fuck overreacting

Click to shrink...

If I walked into a thread and called someone a baby for caring about something, they probably wouldn't be too happy about it tbh

It also doesn't help that it feels like egs threads are the wildwest.

Click to shrink...

I'm noticing this more and more, and from a shitposting/tea/lol drama level that's amusing, but it's really gotten bad, and I want to at least try to see if we can't slow things down.

 

[Cuboid 64]

The rage around the whole thing is incredibly tiring, even if i'm far from a huge fan of the EGS myself. The negative reaction to yet another game going exclusive doesn't need to be anything more "That sucks, i'm not buying it there then!"

 

[Lothars]

I'm noticing this more and more, and from a shitposting/tea/lol drama level that's amusing, but it's really gotten bad, and I want to at least try to see if we can't slow things down.

Click to shrink...

I think that would be ideal, I just don't know how that can be done.

The rage around the whole thing is incredibly tiring, even if i'm far from a huge fan of the EGS myself. The negative reaction to yet another game going exclusive doesn't need to be anything more "That sucks, i'm not buying it there then!"

Click to shrink...

Most egs threads are exactly that but like the last one is because the devs decided to go all toxic themselves and attack everyone.

 

[Hasney]

Sorry you had to go through that shit Bronson, I just don't understand why people are like this in general. Gaming is my favourite hobby, the one I am most invested in, the one I spend the most money on and the one I discuss the most.

The PC is where I prefer to play all my games and I do not like the Epic Game Store, it's not something I will personally use. Ooblets is somthing I have been looking forward to for 3 years and I was on their mailing list. When I got that email that just said "We're going to the EGS to pay rent", I was happy for them to get paid and I'd just pick it up on a platform in the future. After it turned out they are extremly condescending and seemingly jerks from the blog post and Discord screenshots, my attitude changed to maybe just waiting to see if it ever shows up on XBox PC Games Pass as I'm not really wanting to buy a game from them.

But that's as far as it's gone and as far as it will ever go. I don't wish harm on Sweeny, the developers or anyone that disagrees with me. There's so many good games out there to play that if you're not a fan of the EGS like me, why waste energy getting angry about it? Play a different game until it's on a platform you want. If you're a person who thinks the EGS is good or that people not willing to use it are overreacting, again, why be angry or snarky about that?

The one thing that stupid blog post got right is that people should be angry about real issues. Yes, by all means complain, make your voice heard and discuss decisions like this, say why you do/don't support something like this... But anger? It's not worth the energy.

 

[Kalor]

I try to actively avoid any EGS discussion because it's awful, and rational discussion basically doesn't exist. It's a tough thing to moderate but you know there's a deeply seeded problem when every single thread about EGS ends up with discussion guidelines that people just ignore.

You mention it in the OP but you have people being awful to the Ooblets devs in that thread, and with every other game or developer that either take a deal with Epic or supports them even slightly, like with the Rami thread that's up right now. It's basically just an excuse to harass devs who are just be trying to make a living or a publisher took the deal and they had no say. Sure people have legitimate issues with the store but there's no room for nuance for most people.

 

[Hero]

You have my sword, Bronson. I like video games more than I like launchers so the stuff going on with EGS, even if some of them were bad, never bothered me. People are way too hostile over it. It's kind of funny the PC Master Race meme to look down on console players who are used to exclusivity deals are now caught up in Epic's shit.

 

[SheriffMcDuck]

This is sadly just the way the internet is right now. Doesn't make it anywhere close to right, acceptable or even passable. Sorry you went through that Bronson.

I don't plan to ever use the EGS, but I couldn't care less how anyone else feels about it.

Both sides always repeat the same arguments, and never get closer to an agreement. There's no point in discussion if you don't actually want to see the other side.

 

[CloseTalker]

I speak for myself, but I never got the hate. I can understand no liking how something turned out but at the end of the day it's a store selling recrational goods. Nothing on there is needed, and damn sure nothing on there is worth raising your blood pressure over and going insane

Click to shrink...

Haha, that's my main takeaway every time I would glance over once of those threads. Such genuine anger, you can't help but think "surely there are better ways to spend you time? Surely this doesn't matter this much" I can only hope these people are mustering the same passion for topics in life that actually matter

 

[King Alamat]

Store fanboys isnt a topic that needs to be discussed.

Click to shrink...

Not even the second page.

 

[Deleted member 45414]

Hi. Let's have a chat.

We need to talk about how toxic discussion on the Epic Games Store is now. I mainly posted this in the Ooblets thread, but decided to break it out of there for its' own.

It's worse now than it's ever been, and it's been ramping up for quite a while. I don't forsee it getting better without communities attempting to work on stamping these things out, so I want to talk about them.

For example, in the past few months, I've seen people compare EGS and/or Tim Sweeney to:

Hitler
Genocide
War crimes
Racial trolling
a Chinese government spy agency (this one is popular)
Trump (this one too)
Gamergate

I have seen people call devs who take EGS deals:
Cunts
Whores
Thieves
Racist
Trash

On a personal level, I have had people:
Threaten to kill me (a credible enough threat that I called the police)
Try to find my house
Try to get me fired
Harass me for months
Sling massive amounts of racial slurs towards me
Call me subhuman

I don't note those last things for sympathy. I note them to show the more personal level that these things tend to go.

Flipping it around, I have seen people call people who don't want to use the EGS:
Children
Babies
Fanboys
Shills
People who should 'care more about something else' (I've done this personally, something I'm going to actively avoid doing now)

Those are all separate incidents.
Those are all separate people.

None of these things have anything to do with your PC gaming preference.
They have nothing to do with whether Valve earns their 30% cut, or whether Epic doesn't support Linux, or anything regarding technology or software.

They only exist for hate.

These outliers need to stop. They need to be called out when they happen. If they don't, the people saying these things will think that it's acceptable. It shouldn't be.

We can make our points without resorting to this level. We can express our displeasure for something without stooping this low.

We gotta do better.

Click to shrink...

100% agree with this. Not just in regards to EGS, but gaming at large.

There's a growing divide between consumers and developers, and letting hatred run free is only going to make it worse. This doesn't mean we should roll over and accept everything, but we should always be ready to call out people who cross the line.

 

[Aurica]

I can see why people are annoyed by it (especially if they backed or pre-ordered a game on steam that becomes exclusive). Personally, I don't really want to support the practice, but I appreciate the better ratio for devs. I also can't blame devs that take the exclusive deal. Stinks, and it means I'm not playing some games for 6 months to a year that I intended to play near or at release.

Still, considering all this, I've never flung insults or gotten mad at others over it. It's a shame that it's happening, and I'm not supporting Epic due to a number of issues I have with their methods, and the fact that I want all my PC games in one place.

We definitely shouldn't have the vitriol we've all seen so far.

 

[p3n]

The thing I fail to understand the most is: Why do ppl have to act this way to show their discontent? I've been boycotting EA since BF3 and Ubi since AssCreed 3. I'm doing the same with EGS because I don't approve of their practices. Yet I (and the majority of users here) don't threaten anyone or call anyone else names on a forum for using EGS or buying EA/Ubi games.

 

[Lothars]

You mention it in the OP but you have people being awful to the Ooblets devs in that thread, and with every other game or developer that either take a deal with Epic or supports them even slightly, like with the Rami thread that's up right now. It's basically just an excuse to harass devs who are just be trying to make a living or a publisher took the deal and they had no say. Sure people have legitimate issues with the store but there's no room for nuance for most people.

Click to shrink...

Nobody should be awful to them but they are being awful to a large number of people. so it's not like they are not partially responsible for the reaction.

 

[OnionPowder]

How does the wariness of Tencents involvement (a 49% share in Epic) is just based on hate?

We are talking about Tencent, who literally helped creating the social credit system in China, is giving data from WeChat, QQ and Weibo to the chinese government and is involved into the uyghur situation in West China.

Click to shrink...

Nobody is going to take this seriously when nobody says the same thing about Discord but only as a way to discourage use of EGS

https://globalcorporateventuring.com/tencent-fuels-discord-for-20m-round/

https://discordapp.com/company

 

[ShadowAUS]

/co-signed
I'm heavily against the EGS store in its current state and how they're deciding to do business. I think the whole EGS saga will end up making PC gaming (something I'm heavily invested in and enjoy quite a lot) worse as a whole hence why I'm "boycotting" (strong word, but accurate) the store (and Epic as a whole). (I do want to point out I have no issue with devs taking deals with EGS, I would do the same thing as long as I didn't have previous commitments like Kickstarter.)

Saying that though - I've mostly sat out of conversations about EGS for the past couple of months on both here and other places as the conversation has been trending very unhealthily downwards into circular arguments, toxicity and vitriol which helps absolutely no one and only makes everyone involved look bad. It's really gotten ridiculous, I'm very sorry for the shittiness you've had to deal with over this BronsonLee.

Edit: I also want to say that some of the shit directed Sweeney's way is pretty ridiculous, I'm not a fan of the man or his company but geezus you would think his Sunday recreational activities consist of kicking disabled puppies and donating to *insert shitty person(s) here* for a good amount of what gets flung his way.

 

[Lump]

EGS store is missing some features right now, and there's humor in needing to still use Steam to get some personal functionality out of it (like Big Picture Mode and SteamVR), but the sheer hatred is something I never understood. There are some real injustices in the world and EGS isn't one of them.

 

[AntiMacro]

it's not even about isolating it, i just dont want to see a dozen different EGS threads on this forum every day every time a developer tweets something. Like in the last few minutes a new thread has popped up about a tweet by Rami Ismail. Does that really need its own thread. Stick it in a megathread, give us some sanity.

Click to shrink...

So don't read them.

Look at that Rami thread, the exact behavior we're talking about here is already in that thread. Either the mods going to decide this isn't the kind of community this is supposed to be and do something about this shit or it's just going to get worse.

 

[SPRidley]

The EGS situation feels like the culmination of a lot of momentum that started back with the Mass Effect 3 ending in 2012.

For some reason, the gaming community has a hard time calmly criticizing things they don't like it. Instead, they have to be turned into "this is the worst thing ever" flavors of the week. Youtubers exacerbate this with their hyperbole and manufactured drama as their livelihood depends on it.

Click to shrink...

Did that became before or after the watch dogs original trailer being a huge bullshot that made some people ABSOLUTELY crazy to start going after every game that changes a minuscule thing from original trailer to final product crying Downgrade? Becuase that idiocy still happens to this day, to the point of insulting devs. I undertand being discontent when it happens on the level of WatchDogs and Colonial Marines, but it really doesnt happen that often anymore and still the craziness prevail (the witcher 3 or the spiderman puddles were pure cringe threads)

 

[SofNascimento]

Agreed.

It's incredible the amount of hate I see directed at TGS and people involved with it.

 

[rochellepaws]

I like that consumers are showing pushback to devs who take the epic cash along with the many shady and deceitful practices of Epic but my goodness some of the things mentioned in the OP are horrendous and it's horrible that having unpopular views in the gaming community can result in being abused and threatened. Nobody should have to endure that and it shows a serious lack of life perspective from those responsible.

 

[Tambini]

Yeah its pretty weird how angry people get over it

 

[Cuboid 64]

Most egs threads are exactly that but like the last one is because the devs decided to go all toxic themselves and attack everyone.

Click to shrink...

Still, I feel like the better solution will be to just go "this guy's digging a hole and I am climbing the hell out of this" and just not buy any more of their games.

 

[Kalor]

Nobody should be awful to them but they are being awful to a large number of people. so it's not like they are not partially responsible for the reaction.

Click to shrink...

What do you mean? That harassment that devs face is equal to a game not being put on a storefront?

 

[nin]

Thank you for this thread, i was scared to even post my opinion on those many threads since i expected the same.

 

[Hektor]

What do you mean? That harassment that devs face is equal to a game not being put on a storefront?

Click to shrink...

He probably means that those ooblets devs were the ones who started insulting their own customers right out of the gate.

 

[Lothars]

What do you mean? That harassment that devs face is equal to a game not being put on a storefront?

Click to shrink...

No what I am saying is the developers are attacking anyone who doesn't like the egs store in their blog post and actively attacking people in their discord. The developer shouldn't be harassed but they are also doing a bunch of attacking.

He probably means that those ooblets devs were the ones who started insulting their own customers right out of the gate.

Click to shrink...

Yup

 

[PeterVenkman]

I try to actively avoid any EGS discussion because it's awful, and rational discussion basically doesn't exist. It's a tough thing to moderate but you know there's a deeply seeded problem when every single thread about EGS ends up with discussion guidelines that people just ignore.

You mention it in the OP but you have people being awful to the Ooblets devs in that thread, and with every other game or developer that either take a deal with Epic or supports them even slightly, like with the Rami thread that's up right now. It's basically just an excuse to harass devs who are just be trying to make a living or a publisher took the deal and they had no say. Sure people have legitimate issues with the store but there's no room for nuance for most people.

Click to shrink...

This is exactly how I feel. I thought I was going crazy yesterday. The hate towards devs taking this deal is insane

 

[Hamchan]

People need to chill. It's just video games. The EGS is shit, we all know that, but it's easy enough to just call them out and not buy their games instead of going full psycho.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

Thanks guys. I was admittedly pretty nervous about making a thread at all, especially considering some of the personal stuff in it.

Click to shrink...

I can't understand everything about your unique experience, but I can relate at least on the level of "oh my god why am I worrying about my real life because of fucking video game forum drama?"

When I was modding the old place some gamergater "journalist" fucker decided to publish this "expose" on the moderator team. They spent time digging up dirt (percieved or actual) on past and present staff members, plus random personal info including and real names and real life details. I spent a whole day scrambling to work out if my interenet presense gave away who I was in real life in case they decided to go after me personally.

Plenty of folks out there who have no sense of perspective or proportion in the world and will fuck you up for nothing.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Did that became before or after the watch dogs original trailer being a huge bullshot that made some people ABSOLUTELY crazy to start going after every game that changes a minuscule thing from original trailer to final product crying Downgrade? Becuase that idiocy still happens to this day, to the point of insulting devs. I undertand being discontent when it happens on the level of WatchDogs and Colonial Marines, but it really doesnt happen that often anymore and still the craziness prevail (the witcher 3 or the spiderman puddles were pure cringe threads)

Click to shrink...

I think it was around the same time - that original WatchDogs footage was in 2012 as well. But 100% agree - it reached a fever pitch with Witcher 3 and then fell into the absurd territory with Spider-Man last year. This is why developers don't show gameplay at E3 anymore.

 

[Raccoon]

I propose:

The Thunderdome


A subforum where there are no rules. If a topic on gaming-side is just untenable (say, console wars threads, whether Kojima is pretentious or not, EGS, is Breath of the Wild actually good) it gets banned and threads pertaining to that topic must be created in the thunderdome.


Also I will judge each thread personally and the loser of each argument gets banned

Click to shrink...

I 100% support the thunderdome

 

[Stone Ocean]

Making death threats over this is beyond fucked.

Store fanboys isnt a topic that needs to be discussed.

Click to shrink...

Way to prove his point, bud. Dismissive generalizations only serve to make the issue worse.

 

[Kilic95]

For example, in the past few months, I've seen people compare EGS and/or Tim Sweeney to:

Hitler
Genocide
War crimes
Racial trolling
a Chinese government spy agency (this one is popular)
Trump (this one too)
Gamergate

Click to shrink...

Gamers are truly oppressed.

 

[LewieP]

Certainly seems like there's some generalisation going on here.

Was this post I made one that resulted in "Trump" comparisons being listed in the OP?

Feels to me like some people just don't want any kind of consumer pushback, they want people to be silent obedient blind followers, not expressing any kind of negative sentiment towards Epic and the harm that they are doing to the wider PC gaming market.

This antagonism that Epic have instigated is pointless and entirely avoidable, but Epic seem to care little about doing right by consumers, opting to just buy their way into market share, rather than solving any problems for consumers. It's such a shame that they have gone down this route, because what they are doing is turning developers and players against each other in the hope of furthering their own business plan.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

I try to actively avoid any EGS discussion because it's awful, and rational discussion basically doesn't exist. It's a tough thing to moderate but you know there's a deeply seeded problem when every single thread about EGS ends up with discussion guidelines that people just ignore.

You mention it in the OP but you have people being awful to the Ooblets devs in that thread, and with every other game or developer that either take a deal with Epic or supports them even slightly, like with the Rami thread that's up right now. It's basically just an excuse to harass devs who are just be trying to make a living or a publisher took the deal and they had no say. Sure people have legitimate issues with the store but there's no room for nuance for most people.

Click to shrink...

There's folks over there dumping on Rami that don't even know who he is. A damn shame.

 

[Wintermute]

So don't read them.

Look at that Rami thread, the exact behavior we're talking about here is already in that thread. Either the mods going to decide this isn't the kind of community this is supposed to be and do something about this shit or it's just going to get worse.

Click to shrink...

there's a difference between wanting threads to be merged to make the forum more tidy and keep a given topic all in one place, and the general moderation policies regarding that topic.

i just think that this forum as as whole is filling up with egs topics like a burning trash heap, and that within that chaos the level of discourse is sinking down the hole. if the egs discussion was centralised within a thread, it wouldn't stop people being toxic, but at least from the perspective of moderation, mods know a given topic thread is going to need extra care/attention, and it also ends up being easier for us denizens to avoid if we dont want to partake of it, rather than having to see flaming piles of rubbish burning all across the forum space.

 

[Komo]

I agree. I may not like what's going on with the moneyhatting, but holy shit, the way people are acting is unacceptable. When it comes to some subjects, ResetEra is failing miserably at showing that the gaming community isn't a trash heap of toxicity.

It's not just the EGS discussions either. The negativity and toxicity manifests itself in many discussions. I got called an entitled dickhead for ragging on Nintendo about their birthday emails :P

Don't worry, I love you BronsonLee

Click to shrink...

I mean remember the Etika stuff? Or the Smash leaks. ERA has a bad habit of complaining about something and then doing just that.

 

[nin]

gotta agree with bronson here

whyd the community make a new forum if gaming side ends up to be just as bad in brigading as le olde place
its just another video game store ffs

Click to shrink...

this : /

 

[Airbar]

Let's have a chat? No, what we should do is stop chatting with trolls and bait posts and use the ignore function more liberally.

Click to shrink...

Sometimes entire pages on ERA consist of like 3 posts for me.

This thread would have been needed months ago and I'm interested to see if this thread will be locked because any attempt at metadiscussion has always been locked ASAP. Any discussion in these past few years has become extremely toxic (I blame Trump and his rhethoric for this).

I know I myself got pretty angry at times in these threads but it was never about the actual story and more about how people misrepresent my issues with the EGS and lump me in with GamerGate people. Got told multiple times I don't matter at all as a customer and instead should be happy for the devs to get paid. This has also been done by journalists like Jason Schreier and Nathan Grayson (lol). And is already happening in this thread again. Recently a prominent PC ERA user got banned for getting angry at another poster just claiming he was a racist. People I would have considered pillars of this community like Durante have almost completely abandoned ERA by now and in the first few weeks/months of the whole EGS conundrum we had multiple mods trolling the whole PC community here on ERA.

It's totally valid to not care about this whole story or why users have problems with the EGS, but if you don't understand it, just ask. There are people on either side of the argument you can have reasonable discussions with.

 

[Patitoloco]

I propose:

The Thunderdome


A subforum where there are no rules. If a topic on gaming-side is just untenable (say, console wars threads, whether Kojima is pretentious or not, EGS, is Breath of the Wild actually good) it gets banned and threads pertaining to that topic must be created in the thunderdome.


Also I will judge each thread personally and the loser of each argument gets banned

Click to shrink...

I honestly don't support this. By doing this, the only thing you will do is create a huge nest of toxicity.

I'm sure there's a way to clean the gaming side without this.