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ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
First, let me get it out the way here by saying the title of this thread is not hyperbole, and if you think it is, perhaps you should be browsing other topics. While fueled by recent events, such as the assured promise social rights for women will indeed be at risk of being thrown back decades, those who know my posts know I speak of America's issues dating much further back, long before many posters here were born. So then, with the preface out of the way, I'd like to take time to go over concepts and themes that I believe will cripple America, and are either choking the life out of it now, or will asphyxiate it in the future.

yes it is or quite close to hyperbole

One has a nightmare of a job to even begin to talk about America's tsunami of problems, so I guess I'll start with the macro-scale ones that afflict societies beyond the States, and then scale down. The first issue facing this country is climate; as the per capita problem maker in the world, America is presently hellbent on destroying this entire planet by adhering to the interests of money and the rejection of science. Well, that's no longer true; it seems the Trump administration accepts climate change, but that comes with a "well, it's too late to do anything, so just go crazy" type of response to the matter. The issue of climate change is an excuse used to justify a buffet of carbon emission efforts and letting them expand in harm, not contract. This will create an issue where resources, not just in the United States, but all over the world, suffer, leading to migration issues, but we'll get to that in a bit with Trump's Alt Reich agenda.

In general the scientific community has been telling us climate change is accelerating and some 8 year trump admin isnt messing that up. This is a worldwide issue which we as humans will have to face. Quite frankly you will need carbon reducing tech. were pretty much barreling onwards too fast anyway.

The second macro-scale issue, also afflicting American's the most in a per capita sense, is automation. People really are downplaying the danger of technology because they think the spook is in the erosion of jobs, when in fact the problem is that technology will negate rises in incomes due to the delegation of skills to technology. Retail and services will be ground zero for this issue, and seeing as full-time employment has largely been replaced by part-time employment in much of the first-world since the Great Recession, you're employing more of a majority of people in an arena absolutely poised to abandon them within the next decade. Looking at just one macro-scale study that correlates some isolated studies down based on specific countries (Oxford, the Obama administration, and the United Nations come to mind for these small studies) the numbers at risk are absolutely staggering. This will impact tens of millions of Americans, and massive amounts more as we look the world over. This may also have an implosion effect where the ladders to prosperity are eliminated. I mention the UN earlier, but their study on India in fact raised alarms that technology may leave a permanent underclass with no upward mobility. This is actually very dangerous, especially when if we're supposed to rely on the left as the "party of reason" they're proposing job guarantees. They haven't even admitted that full-time employment is no longer a norm! They're giving us a proposals conservatives in other countries come up with, and it's usually as an emotional response to even entertaining the idea of systemic change.

Before I even begin to talk about the next thing, I must address something important: the two above points are happening at the same time, and will intersect upon one another, and this is really where the fuel for most dissent, conflict, and strife will bloom this century. The Pentagon believes this is what will destabilize societies the world over. These problems alone would be enough to talk about, but as we're talking about the shithole known as America, ya'll know it goes deeper.

Most people know if true automation becomes prevelant as its only a matter of time things like UBI have to be the answer or something similar. We arent at that state yet but people are already considering it.

The fundamental issues of racism adopted via the neoliberal lens that "wealth is worth" play their own role in every fabric of social living. Black people are almost seen as intrinsically unpeople, that they have superpowers where a 12 year old is supposed to be a "man" and will have jaywalking held against them if laws would allow it occurs in the same space where a white man at high school sexually assault women - hello Brett Kavanaugh - is seen as someone who can redeemed by the facets of time itself. One increasingly sees, since the 1970s, this country has moved from a society where life is value to where only the market has value, and under parasites like Ronald Reagan, adopted too much of the country into this vision. Any form of business is the best form of business, any for of government is a bad form of living, and all rights should appeal to them and the market first. We are literally having puzzling articles and inquiries on how to solve paid family leave, as if it's truly a fuckin' cosmic mystery that's befallen us since the dawn of time itself. One may presume it's high-brow to presume this plays a role in America's injustices, it very much does, for what exists outside of market value and terminology is, by its association with those very concepts, considering unneeded and disposable. If the market somehow cannot solve paid family leave, it would presume that it's not a worthy thing to have. This is literally the lens in which we collectively live within. No wonder this is a culture bathed in violence.

The only thing America has done since the 1970s that we can see has been a constant net-positive has been the expansion of social rights, but as they have no market value, and as conservatism, the disease that it is, believes we've made mistakes in regards to these social rights, they'll all being put on the cutting block. You have candidates outright calling for the euthanizing of the unproductive, putting work requirements on the poor and addicted during an opioid crisis while ignoring real issues the precariat already face, parts of the population lacking drinking water, entire swaths of human life put in literal internment camps. The fullness of this problem, to me, is that we can be so full of ourselves and our myths of wellbeing and exceptionalism that we pulled out of the Human Rights Council potentially because of a scathing report that America commits immense abuses to its very own people. We have, as Henry Giroux aptly describes, curated a "culture of cruelty". In this culture, freedom is itself a word of exclusion; it's no longer freedom for, but freedom from. Freedom from dignified living conditions, freedom from security, freedom from education, freedom from healthcare. We have been seeing for many decades the attack of social safety nets and social rights altogether, but they're only in the spotlight now because grandma might be addicted to drugs, or your trans brother may be a potential target in this current period of history. And this, if we're real about it, is only going to get worse before we can even start believing the current pixie dust that it will get better very, very soon.

As stated in another thread, the parallels of America's emulation of the formation of Nazi Germany cannot be overstated or evermore clearer at this point in history. Once you have a power play where a minority ruin the system while proclaiming this is done to benefit the masses, you directly fall into the hands of authoritarianism. It's precisely the same game would-be normalizers of America's neoliberal mess use to talk about the collapse of the Soviets, failing to realize they're literally in the same game, right now. Power and wellbeing for a few as the empty rhetoric of "restoration" and "prosperity" are given to a vulnerable public, and this is normalized under an egoic lens: if you're doing good, who cares about the rest. The very danger in this country is specifically based around this vulnerable public. Are there enough reasonable people to see the violence, the insolubility of current paradigms, and are they able to course correct this mess? Who says revolution would right all wrongs? Further, who is to say that the vulnerable public, as seen in the dipshit Trump supporter who has already bought the game of illusions, isn't big enough to carry the country further into dissent. Look at the damage done already with the literal moron in the White House. The most alarming aspect, in my perspective at the very least, is that due to us being a reactive and not a proactive society and species, we may only wake up and act in an already-too-late scenario. Worse still, one of the literal diseases Americans face is how they normalize injustice. Another school shooting? Just another day of the week. Oh, mom got cancer? Gotta find a way to make our GoFundMe page appealing for donations. Things that should make your blood into magma are just as common as seeing sunlight. Any one major injustice is a national travesty, but we can go through many in one day.
Im going to not comment on this one because race issues in america are quite america specific and while Ive lived here a while I dont consider myself knowledgeable enough on this topic.
The literal sickness this country sits in is deep in its blood, and I often wonder what will happen when the "body" stops working, what can be done, if anything, to alleviate the aftereffects and looming chaos, and if there's enough that could even be done to avoid an outright implosion within the borders of this eternally divided country. One may say I am being pessimistic, but I would argue I am being realistic. The first thing to do, as far as I'm concerned, is to be real with "what is", and it's that this country has functioned on the most smallest sliver of presumptions that, when exposed as fraudulent, the entire show gets exposed, and we're living in that each and every day of our lives. I don't even think we can fool ourselves by assuming all of this can be avoided, hence the paradox of "possibly" avoiding "inevitable" collapse of systems and structures.

OP your opinion is your opinion but imo its overreaction and hyperbole on the topics I commented on .
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
What do reports on the climate or UN have to do with the collapse of America? Go to sleep.
Wildfires will get worse. Droughts will get worse. Hurricane season will get worse. Living is just going to get more uncomfortable and, I admit I'm reaching here but, warmer climates are strongly correlated with higher crime.

Not to mention this is going to be true of Mexico and north parts of South America, driving immigration to the border which will fuel political conflict.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
In what way was the fall of Rome, Egypt and Greece a good thing? Either for the Romans/Greeks/Egyptians or those left behind?
For Rome at least it meant a return of sovereignty to many conquered peoples, although that also includes a reduction in technological and social sophistication as infrastructure decays.

Empires fade all the time, what happens is usually a period of turmoil then normalcy reasserts itself. The sun setting on the British empire gave many of their colonial holdings a sigh of relief. The main downside to a US collapse, globally speaking, is China occupying the empty throne.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
These types of threads have to be embarrassing to view after a period of time. Like whenever someone on Era gets dumped and their entire life is ruined until a month later when they get a spicy handjob while they're playing RDR2.

OP has put a bit more effort into articulating themselves than some, but there is a grain of truth to this too. I had to wade through historic GAF posts trying to find another post yesterday and the amount of people saying World War 3 was literally about to kick off was... something to go back and read. The average poster on Era probably should go back and revisit their historic posts if they are someone who has a tendency to jump to the most extreme often.

When people are living in the moment it often has the effect of aiding them in absolutist thinking or thinking impending doom is just around the corner. They seem to lose all concept of time or even history. Issues with politics in countries works on a pendulum and also repeats itself. Such as recessions, shitty leaders, fighting over laws and bills and so on.

America might be a bit more fucked up than some of the other Western nations, but even the likes of the UK will plod on post Brexit. Don't underestimate a countries ability to carry on, populations of humans have been adapting since long before your birth and politics basically are one big long game of adapting. Fighting for change and adapting. Human beings are as overpopulated and have lasted this long on this planet precisely due to our ability to adapt and survive.

Getting more people engaged in voting and politics really is the baseline of what is needed because some of the turnout rates are piss poor. Fatalism around your right to vote is a lack of self-respect on your part. The average life is 70-90+ years. That's a reasonable input via voting. If you don't vote that already lets other people know how serious you take your views on politics.

Besides voting the next step is getting involved and speaking. Your voice is your most powerful asset over the course of your life. Speak, debate, argue and be involved. Don't coast through life. Don't underestimate or be flippant around your right to speak. However, try and be educated and rational as often as you can be. It might be how you articulate your anger, but letting everyone know you hope your country is wiped out or some other fatalism shouldn't surprise you if it leads to others refusing to engage with you.

Sometimes it's best to remember what "shower thoughts" are and reflect on them. If you're that angry it's often best to try and find productive ways to channel the majority of your anger. Blowing off steam does help, but if it consumes your life it'll probably burn you out and compound what misery you may already be going through.

Vote, engage and speak. You might feel like an ant, but ants all come together to do and create impressive things.
 
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Cycas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
322
The US will not collapse outside of a Yellowstone Supervolcano type event.

What will inevitably happen, in a year or so, is a huge correction in the price of equities. Following that, within the next 5-10 years, there will be a massive call on the unassailable debt burden that the US carries and continues to balloon. And after that the country will either self heal or project its massive power in a fashion similar to how WW2 eventually pulled the US out of the Great Depression.
 

Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
OP is in a pretty fucked state, we can defo a agree on that. What you're confusing as problems are really just the symptoms of something else.

Democracy as it currently stands, is doomed to fail. The two party system, widely adopted by most democratic nations, is a system that was setup to fail from the start. This was obvious even from the beginning of the US, I quote John Adams and George Washington.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution. - John Adams

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty... - George Washington

The biggest problem we currently have in the West is an inability to communicate what we want. When people vote, they don't vote because the support everything a person/party stands for. They vote because they stands for most of what we want. This is inherently flawed. If the Dems were to put forwards a candidate that was the most liberal candidate in history, stood for everything we wanted, but this person had to sadistically kill a puppy each day, the current system would communicate to everyone, that anyone who voted this way was ok with puppy slaughter.

It's totally fucked, when you have to account that parties are made up of more than one person, and you have to deal with all the crap that comes from electing that person. Lets say you are a farmer and your choice is between an accused pedophile and someone who will contribute to the destruction your livelihood. Their is literally no perfect answer. However there is an advantage to a 2 party system, that works much more to the benefit of some people than others. The consolidation of power. The Rich will always find a way to take advantage of a system, but the 2 party provides a structure, a dos and donts to obtaining and holding political power.

Things only get worse from here though. Media thrives on division. In a system where 2 parties are the norm, that division is already laid out, it does not have to be made. By not having to present an unbiased view, media can appeal to the audiences, not to those seeking a truth. This is I think, one of the failing of the Founding Fathers, a failure to recognize the future of Media and how that would go forward. They were members of the Enlightenment. They believed in humanities innate ability to rationalize. What they failed and what people only really started to grasp in the the 20th century. It was David Humes that wrote on the subject of ethics...

Morals excite passions, and produce or prevent actions. Reason itself is utterly impotent in this particular. The rules of morality, therefore, are not conclusions of our reason.

In other words, morality is informed by emotion, not reason. I might be being harsh, I have no idea if Humes work had reached the Americas by that point. My final note on media, is that media, by it's nature, is not a free enterprise. There is always a cost and it stands to reason that if cost = media, those that can afford a greater cost, will create more media.

How do we fix this then? Smarter people than me have offered suggestions. The easiest is war, a war to completely remove the foundation of the Federal and State governments and wipe the slate clean. However war is messy. You can never tell who will win or what will replace it. That's where violence to a degree is not the right answer. If you want an example look at Syria. The Civil War was originally a war to remove a dictator from power by the people, it's now much messier than that.

The other way is to try and fix it from the inside. The single biggest issue in politics currently, the one that does not get enough attention, is lobbying. Lobbying has totally destroyed any chance of cultural & political progression. Citizens United have done more damage to the US, than any terrorist group, but the blame isn't just with them. Donations themselves are a mess, that only legalize corruption. You have to fix both of these, if we're going to have any hope of moving forward. Waiting isn't working. New generations of complete idiots are still coming. Outlasting isn't an option and something has to be done.
 
Oct 28, 2017
22,596
Maybe America falling apart is a good thing. Too many Americans are so out of touch for this country to survive for much longer. Rome fell, Egypt did, Greece did. History demand the US will meet the same fate. As a black man unless a 180 is done, inevitably I am screwed either ways.

One of these is not like the other. One of these just doesnt belong...

The US is not Rome, Egypt or Greece. It's not going to cease to exist from anything Trump does. The US's economic domination has always been living on borrowed time since WW2. 80 years later and other countries like India and China are making gains the United Ststes did decades ago.

Unless free and open elections are disrupted then the US will always have a method for self correction. The House is elected every 2 years to balance the Senate. Together they act as a check on the President. We will see if this still holds true after the midterms and 2020 or if society has just given up.
 

halcali

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
6,317
Hong Kong SAR
Improving the education system would really help safeguard the future, but we know USA values militarism and athletics above things like health and education...
 
OP
OP
Foffy

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,399
For Rome at least it meant a return of sovereignty to many conquered peoples, although that also includes a reduction in technological and social sophistication as infrastructure decays.

Empires fade all the time, what happens is usually a period of turmoil then normalcy reasserts itself. The sun setting on the British empire gave many of their colonial holdings a sigh of relief. The main downside to a US collapse, globally speaking, is China occupying the empty throne.

We're already seeing issues in China with what they taught in regards to Communism and how the youth see the government presenting a lie from that position. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with China's police state replacing the United States' police state. As much as I'm dogpiling on America, I've done so because most users here are from there, not as if I think we should be "replaced".

yes it is or quite close to hyperbole



In general the scientific community has been telling us climate change is accelerating and some 8 year trump admin isnt messing that up. This is a worldwide issue which we as humans will have to face. Quite frankly you will need carbon reducing tech. were pretty much barreling onwards too fast anyway.



Most people know if true automation becomes prevelant as its only a matter of time things like UBI have to be the answer or something similar. We arent at that state yet but people are already considering it.


Im going to not comment on this one because race issues in america are quite america specific and while Ive lived here a while I dont consider myself knowledgeable enough on this topic.


OP your opinion is your opinion but imo its overreaction and hyperbole on the topics I commented on .

If I may address some of these points, I'd like to add to them, if possible.

First, please don't think I think climate is an issue because of Orange Con Man. My point was we might normalize an issue with an "oh well" after a great deal of conservative people abandon their Christian ego duality that presently asserts an idea where we can't influence an environment. My point of highlighting Trump was to show, at least in that case, was not a failure to admit a problem, but to accept it as something that shouldn't be dealt with. For the GOP, climate change is either a myth of an issue too late to fix. Both of these are violent beliefs.

Second, while you and I would agree about the necessity of UBI, the issues therein go right back to conservatism in the States. You can probably find posters on this very forum refusing this can even become an issue, like at all, and this is a very liberal forum. Your post gives the impression you're not American born but have lived here a while, but what Republican, acting in congress or not, has outright said this is real and a huge issue? They almost always pivot into an infinite jobs tree mythology, and the left does a godawful job by countering with everyone being a tabula rasa. This is manipulative rhetoric, for they're both untrue proclamations.

I'd hope by elaborating a bit that what I was arguing is seen less from a position of hyperbole but concern. I'll chalk up the misconception to my OP literally being a first draft, and for that reason is deeply unrefined, wordy, and repetitive to read (I'm sure this post is, too!). I use the word literally too literally. Really should have given it a second pass as some of the critiques I'm noticing are from holes in my articulation. A big one I'm presuming exists is people think I'm implying collapse in the sense of Fallout, but I suppose I meant significant destabilization where living a life of baseline needs being met is one of immense and possibly permanent insecurity. I would call the Flint crisis a state of collapse. Hopefully that explains the type of scale I was conceptualizing. Pockets and pillars where things break down.

With that said, I am actually optimistic we can eventually tackle these things, but my concern is between the proactive or reactive method of approach. My negativity looms from the consistent worry it's going to be reactive, that we need to be knee deep in a problem to admit a problem exists; once you're knee deep you better pick the right direction to course correct because your windows for experimentation are being eliminated. I find that very troubling, because along the way we will normalize the suffering our inaction produces. Perhaps people can see why I'd be "sounding the alarm" as that should be avoided entirely.
 

teruterubozu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,956
Well when you speak of "collapse" you are really talking about the collapse of power, not the country. Rome, Egypt, Greece, England, etc. all still exist but their sphere of global influence has greatly diminished. But yes, probably most folks are taking it to mean a Fallout type collapse where America enters the Dark Ages (which is also a historical myth). Problem is the word "collapse" is too general and not specific enough to have any kind of productive discussion.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,639
White people, the more sane ones, need to stand up to the government and let them know this shit ain't flying. This has to be in a bunch of forms; revolution, protesting, go on strike, hurt wealthy people's pockets and shit will start to change. Then we need to remove corporations and wealthy influence from government, it has no place as looks what's happened; Roosevelt knew this almost a century ago. People can't get complacent, that's how evil people come to power. We've become complacent because the powers that be made it so.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,381
In terms of Western countries, America is probably the best off for the next 200 years. We have just to weather this small Trump storm.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
These threads are frustrating. You have to ignore what America was built on to be this fanatical.
As a Native American whose ancestors were herded off their sacred lands, put on a death march by a racist president our current president admires with his portrait in his office, for white pioneers to plunder and squander that land through slave labor...

American's foundation is ugly, shameful, hypocritical, and often inhumane.

The hope is that America would grow beyond that foundation into something better. Too many Americans idolize our nations foundations instead of seeing them as rotten.
 

Dingens

Circumventing ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
Vote, but also make sure you friends and loved ones vote.

did-not-vote-2016-update.png

this just shows that the US has a more fundamental problem than people not voting. It's that there is no one worth voting for. What the US needs are more diverse parties - and by "diverse" I don't mean a party with black, hispanic and asian members but ones who stand for anything other than the right-wing status-quo the other 2 represent.
But given the current political system... that would be incredibly difficult to realize, because a) both republicans and democrats benefit greatly from the current system and b) democrats have more to lose from alternatives, ans since voters don't want the reps to win, they are locked in with the democrats, no matter how shitty their policy for them might be. As long as it's just a little less shitty than the alternative
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
OP is in a pretty fucked state, we can defo a agree on that. What you're confusing as problems are really just the symptoms of something else.

Democracy as it currently stands, is doomed to fail. The two party system, widely adopted by most democratic nations, is a system that was setup to fail from the start. This was obvious even from the beginning of the US, I quote John Adams and George Washington.





The biggest problem we currently have in the West is an inability to communicate what we want. When people vote, they don't vote because the support everything a person/party stands for. They vote because they stands for most of what we want. This is inherently flawed. If the Dems were to put forwards a candidate that was the most liberal candidate in history, stood for everything we wanted, but this person had to sadistically kill a puppy each day, the current system would communicate to everyone, that anyone who voted this way was ok with puppy slaughter.

It's totally fucked, when you have to account that parties are made up of more than one person, and you have to deal with all the crap that comes from electing that person. Lets say you are a farmer and your choice is between an accused pedophile and someone who will contribute to the destruction your livelihood. Their is literally no perfect answer. However there is an advantage to a 2 party system, that works much more to the benefit of some people than others. The consolidation of power. The Rich will always find a way to take advantage of a system, but the 2 party provides a structure, a dos and donts to obtaining and holding political power.

Things only get worse from here though. Media thrives on division. In a system where 2 parties are the norm, that division is already laid out, it does not have to be made. By not having to present an unbiased view, media can appeal to the audiences, not to those seeking a truth. This is I think, one of the failing of the Founding Fathers, a failure to recognize the future of Media and how that would go forward. They were members of the Enlightenment. They believed in humanities innate ability to rationalize. What they failed and what people only really started to grasp in the the 20th century. It was David Humes that wrote on the subject of ethics...



In other words, morality is informed by emotion, not reason. I might be being harsh, I have no idea if Humes work had reached the Americas by that point. My final note on media, is that media, by it's nature, is not a free enterprise. There is always a cost and it stands to reason that if cost = media, those that can afford a greater cost, will create more media.

How do we fix this then? Smarter people than me have offered suggestions. The easiest is war, a war to completely remove the foundation of the Federal and State governments and wipe the slate clean. However war is messy. You can never tell who will win or what will replace it. That's where violence to a degree is not the right answer. If you want an example look at Syria. The Civil War was originally a war to remove a dictator from power by the people, it's now much messier than that.

The other way is to try and fix it from the inside. The single biggest issue in politics currently, the one that does not get enough attention, is lobbying. Lobbying has totally destroyed any chance of cultural & political progression. Citizens United have done more damage to the US, than any terrorist group, but the blame isn't just with them. Donations themselves are a mess, that only legalize corruption. You have to fix both of these, if we're going to have any hope of moving forward. Waiting isn't working. New generations of complete idiots are still coming. Outlasting isn't an option and something has to be done.


Hume's work philosophical work, especially A Treatise on Human Nature, wasn't particularly well diffused anywhere in the 18th century, the Man was far beyond his time. Only a very small minority of people seem to understand him even today unfortunately. His histories on the other hand were quite widely read in the Colonies and broad. Moreover I think you're misrepresenting Hume abit. He's not against what people tend to think of when they think of reason, he's against Descartes and Plato. Hume would be the first to accept that his system doesn't explain why things do or don't work in the particular.

Meanwhile the Founding Fathers' distaste for party or faction cones not from their sophistication but instead their position in the backwater. They had a very romantic view of 1689 and how Britain worked after that derived mostly from Whiggish polimics and not from any real experience with serious politics.
 
It will depend on whether or not something can be done to reduce the amount of people in Anerica who are indifferent to or outright hostile to the prospect of change. If not, then the best that can happen is being able to delay whenever the pendulum shifts away from republicans.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,302

And hate. This country hasn't risen beyond that. Stats show it constantly.

As a Native American whose ancestors were herded off their sacred lands, put on a death march by a racist president our current president admires with his portrait in his office, for white pioneers to plunder and squander that land through slave labor...

American's foundation is ugly, shameful, hypocritical, and often inhumane.

The hope is that America would grow beyond that foundation into something better. Too many Americans idolize our nations foundations instead of seeing them as rotten.

You would hope...but I'm a black guy looking at Sessions as the most powerful law enforcement agent in America.
 

Mesoian

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,690
this just shows that the US has a more fundamental problem than people not voting. It's that there is no one worth voting for. What the US needs are more diverse parties - and by "diverse" I don't mean a party with black, hispanic and asian members but ones who stand for anything other than the right-wing status-quo the other 2 represent.
But given the current political system... that would be incredibly difficult to realize, because a) both republicans and democrats benefit greatly from the current system and b) democrats have more to lose from alternatives, ans since voters don't want the reps to win, they are locked in with the democrats, no matter how shitty their policy for them might be. As long as it's just a little less shitty than the alternative
I mean sure.

But those members of other parties or other beliefs need to get out here and do things other than the periods where there's an election.

Where's the green party at for the 3 years and 6 months when there isn't a presidential election?
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,553
OP has put a bit more effort into articulating themselves than some, but there is a grain of truth to this too. I had to wade through historic GAF posts trying to find another post yesterday and the amount of people saying World War 3 was literally about to kick off was... something to go back and read. The average poster on Era probably should go back and revisit their historic posts if they are someone who has a tendency to jump to the most extreme often.

When people are living in the moment it often has the effect of aiding them in absolutist thinking or thinking impending doom is just around the corner. They seem to lose all concept of time or even history. Issues with politics in countries works on a pendulum and also repeats itself. Such as recessions, shitty leaders, fighting over laws and bills and so on.

America might be a bit more fucked up than some of the other Western nations, but even the likes of the UK will plod on post Brexit. Don't underestimate a countries ability to carry on, populations of humans have been adapting since long before your birth and politics basically are one big long game of adapting. Fighting for change and adapting. Human beings are as overpopulated and have lasted this long on this planet precisely due to our ability to adapt and survive.

Getting more people engaged in voting and politics really is the baseline of what is needed because some of the turnout rates are piss poor. Fatalism around your right to vote is a lack of self-respect on your part. The average life is 70-90+ years. That's a reasonable input via voting. If you don't vote that already lets other people know how serious you take your views on politics.

Besides voting the next step is getting involved and speaking. Your voice is your most powerful asset over the course of your life. Speak, debate, argue and be involved. Don't coast through life. Don't underestimate or be flippant around your right to speak. However, try and be educated and rational as often as you can be. It might be how you articulate your anger, but letting everyone know you hope your country is wiped out or some other fatalism shouldn't surprise you if it leads to others refusing to engage with you.

Sometimes it's best to remember what "shower thoughts" are and reflect on them. If you're that angry it's often best to try and find productive ways to channel the majority of your anger. Blowing off steam does help, but if it consumes your life it'll probably burn you out and compound what misery you may already be going through.

Vote, engage and speak. You might feel like an ant, but ants all come together to do and create impressive things.

Great post mate.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,388
I'd say voting but the only other party is a party i wouldn't trust to fix things. You need a more radical democratic party.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
One of these is not like the other. One of these just doesnt belong...

The US is not Rome, Egypt or Greece. It's not going to cease to exist from anything Trump does. The US's economic domination has always been living on borrowed time since WW2. 80 years later and other countries like India and China are making gains the United Ststes did decades ago.

Unless free and open elections are disrupted then the US will always have a method for self correction. The House is elected every 2 years to balance the Senate. Together they act as a check on the President. We will see if this still holds true after the midterms and 2020 or if society has just given up.
This isn't about trump. This has been the trajectory for decades. The country constantly puts the needs of the rich over its people. The rich are going to be rich and take their money somewhere else while the poor fight over a settled issue such as abortion.

Rome didn't fall because of one particular event, it was a slow built up from a combination of other events. Same with Egypt and the British empire. Britain still exist but it doesn't hold the same sway it once did. Greece still exist.

Trump won't cause the immediate decline, Trump is a symptom of a population full of stupid, ignorant aka racist and selfish people. It was a built up of decades of the country moving right.

Insert quote from LBJ about the poor white.

This is America.
 

Orin_linwe

Member
Nov 26, 2017
706
Malmoe, Sweden.
This my be my favorite post I've ever seen on here. So eloquently put, founded in logic and realness. All of my same thoughts and feelings, typed in a way that I could only hope to be able to write.

I had a few glasses too many, and dealing with a bit of life-altering stress myself right now; part of which is about separating the indulgence of fantasies of life as it could be, or should be, or that I wish it was (without much effort from me), from the actual realities of life. And how to bridge those two in a way that works and makes sense.

Glad you enjoyed; my pleasure. Cheers.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,892
I don't think it's all beyond saving but I do think it's gonna take a hell of a lot longer than how long the US has been around to fix everything.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,391
The OP frames a lot of global issues as if they're US specific problems while then others in the thread discuss the rise of China/India as if they won't face similar problems.
Climate Change and Automation will hit everyone hard and they're likely to hit a country like China harder than the US.
Racism is awful in the US and Trump has certainly made things worse and more blatant, but don't pretend that other countries don't have their issues with race as well. China's treatment of minorities, for example, is horrific.
Social freedoms in the US are at risk and the current administration has a lot to answer for in that regard. Let's not pretend that China isn't dramatically worse in this regard, however.

The world as a whole faces major problems, not just the US.
 
Aug 2, 2018
269
Replace the word Trump with Obama, replace Nazism with Socialism, replace climate change with the welfare state, etc etc....

And your left with what is essentially is what all the far right loons were screamin from the hilltops when Obama was elected in 2008.

"America is doomed! They are coming for our guns! Outlaw religion!!! Soon it will be illegal to be white!!

Many here spouting the same sounding non-sense were I'm betting making fun of those people not too long ago.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Vote, but also make sure you friends and loved ones vote.

did-not-vote-2016-update.png


This post exemplifies the myopic observations and dumb rhetoric too many people make on this forum.



If there are so many people not voting then the biggest issue is that none of the parties matter as long as they don't interfere with what these people perceive as normality.


Voting has to be made compulsory by law to get such a large percentage of non voters to vote.

Grass roots outreach can only take you so far because I bet the politics of at least half these non-voters is fundamentally different from Dems and GOP.