What exactly is wrong with the Dark Knight Rises?
- Thread starter DragonSJG
- Start date
I think its still great, but it does have major issues.
Its super ambitious and doesnt get all the way there. Trying to ground its story in the real world didnt work nearly aswell as The Dark Knight. There were too many holes and other points that asked you to suspend your disbelief a bit too much.
Its super ambitious and doesnt get all the way there. Trying to ground its story in the real world didnt work nearly aswell as The Dark Knight. There were too many holes and other points that asked you to suspend your disbelief a bit too much.
It's worse than the first two. It's a Batman movie, in which Batman is already established, but only gives you like 15 minutes of Batman.
It drops the ball after Bruce comes out of that pit. Which is a bummer, but it is what it is. It's still ok, mostly held up by the very good first two-thirds.
Its just not as good as The Dark Knight, where I feel it peaked.
You should see it being parodied in the Harley Quinn show, its great.
You should see it being parodied in the Harley Quinn show, its great.
I don't understand accepting the basic premise of Batman: the most popular ripped billionaire manufacturer of military weaponry very publicly using such equipment while also maintaining total anonymity - but reject the plot holes of Rises.
So I enjoyed it initially and still enjoy it today. It's an extremely ambitious premise and I think Nolan pulled off with entertaining characters doing entertaining things that forces me not care how Bruce got back to Gotham.
So I enjoyed it initially and still enjoy it today. It's an extremely ambitious premise and I think Nolan pulled off with entertaining characters doing entertaining things that forces me not care how Bruce got back to Gotham.
Two little complaints from me :
- The Talia reveal should have been at the end of Act 2 before Bruce is sent to the pit, the fact that Talia is revealed 20 min before the end doesn't change anything in the plot. Maybe this could have also added some relevance to Bruce and Selina relationship.
- I would have prefered if civilians participated to the final battle for the city and not just the cops. I don't know, doesn't feel right to me and ; it kinda make the fire bat signal irrelevant if it's just for the cops to know that Batman came back even though they were chasing him at the beginning of the movie.
Overall i still think it's a good movie and it contains some of the best scenes of the trilogy.
- The Talia reveal should have been at the end of Act 2 before Bruce is sent to the pit, the fact that Talia is revealed 20 min before the end doesn't change anything in the plot. Maybe this could have also added some relevance to Bruce and Selina relationship.
- I would have prefered if civilians participated to the final battle for the city and not just the cops. I don't know, doesn't feel right to me and ; it kinda make the fire bat signal irrelevant if it's just for the cops to know that Batman came back even though they were chasing him at the beginning of the movie.
Overall i still think it's a good movie and it contains some of the best scenes of the trilogy.
It has some great moments but it's too long and sending all the cops in the sewers and them getting trapped in there for weeks is one of the worst plot points ever. I was literally angry in my seat in the cinema when this happened.
Bane has a silly accent that makes him impossible to take seriously and not threatening at all.
It sucked. I wanted to like it so much, but it's filled with so much illogical crap that it just fizzles away as a sad sendoff to an otherwise great trilogy.
Oh :(
Yeah, you can see she is affected.
Also, she is right. Why in the hell Nolan kept it with that take ?
I'll never get over ALL the cops getting stuck underground for weeks. Even the dumbest cops in real life would never have that happen to them.
I don't mind the bat symbol thing or Bane's voice (I kinda like it, actually), or the occasional bad fight choreography. There's some good moments in the movie.
The cops locked underground plot doesn't really make any sense. There's no sense for the passage of time. It almost feels like some of that stuff was added in post, or reshoots or something and didn't come across the way it was intended.
I also dislike the Bruce nod at the end in the cafe. I really just wanted Alfred to smirk and cut to credits. That feels like something added later too, maybe after test audiences complained the ending was too ambiguous or something.
The cops locked underground plot doesn't really make any sense. There's no sense for the passage of time. It almost feels like some of that stuff was added in post, or reshoots or something and didn't come across the way it was intended.
I also dislike the Bruce nod at the end in the cafe. I really just wanted Alfred to smirk and cut to credits. That feels like something added later too, maybe after test audiences complained the ending was too ambiguous or something.
I could be completely wrong about this but I believe I read somewhere that Nolan does not do reshoots.
Fair enough, just came across that way. Maybe just weird writing or editing or something.
Because the "plot holes" (I don't like using that term for bad/stupid things in movies, but whatever) actually drag down the movie and ask too much of the viewer's suspension of disbelief. They're also wildly inconsistent.
- The entire wall street shit is just a jumble of errors. As soon as that place was attacked, all trading should've been cancelled as soon as the attack was made public. Bruce still would've lost access to trading because of the phony trading, but could've easily made a case to get it reversed since it was such huge news. They at least acknowledge this in the movie, but that leads to my next point:
- Referring to Bruce as "bankrupt" instead of just being broke. In order to be considered bankrupt you have to formally declare it; simply losing your stocks and/or losing access to your bank account does not bankrupt you, especially since Bruce still has his big-ass mansion full of valuables.
- Speaking of which, why the fuck did he lose power to his house after a day or two of the wall street event? Bruce would've had to have never paid a utility for several months for a power company to have done that
- There is no sense of time or distance whatsoever in this movie. Bruce is taken to some foreign location for who knows how long to get some miracle healing performed on him (which is also an entirely stupid point all on its own, but I digress), and then is able to go back to Gotham. Did I also mention there's a literal ticking time bomb that has been activated while he was gone? How are we supposed to know how far away he was, and how long it took him to get back to Gotham? This is completely overlooked in the movie. If I missed it, someone please point it out to me, because otherwise I'm going to assume Bruce simply walked back to Gotham in time to stop the bomb (remember that he has no resources because he's "bankrupt").
Except that was actually fun and entertaining.This was the ending of the movie.
Yeah . . . It really reframed my perspective on her performance (and bad performances in general).
I remember liking Begins more and Rises less when I saw them in theaters. Rewatching all three films just this past week, Rises might actually be my favorite. Begins is definitely the weakest at the very least. I feel like it coming out when it did probably made it feel like a bigger deal than it actually is. Still a very solid film, but it never really goes beyond the baseline I'd expect from such a film today.
Knight and Rises, like most of Nolan's films, are best thought of as ambitious failures that rise above the sum of their parts through sheer cinematic willpower. They aren't anywhere near perfect, but they give a shit in ways most similar films wouldn't. Stuff like the tunnel trap and wall of death aren't any better or worse than stuff like the prisoner dilemma or you can only save one sequences from Dark Knight, which themselves aren't any better or worse than any of the silly stuff most blockbuster films expect you to look beyond. Nolan does tend to express the concepts he's working with more literally than most other directors, but that's why we get those concepts to begin with.
(The awkward cut after Gordon returns home to get slapped/hugged by his wife in Dark Knight bothers me far more than anything in any other Nolan film.)
Knight and Rises, like most of Nolan's films, are best thought of as ambitious failures that rise above the sum of their parts through sheer cinematic willpower. They aren't anywhere near perfect, but they give a shit in ways most similar films wouldn't. Stuff like the tunnel trap and wall of death aren't any better or worse than stuff like the prisoner dilemma or you can only save one sequences from Dark Knight, which themselves aren't any better or worse than any of the silly stuff most blockbuster films expect you to look beyond. Nolan does tend to express the concepts he's working with more literally than most other directors, but that's why we get those concepts to begin with.
(The awkward cut after Gordon returns home to get slapped/hugged by his wife in Dark Knight bothers me far more than anything in any other Nolan film.)
Agreed. It's enjoyable but the inconsistencies are really jarring. Feels like pieces of the movie are missing.
The last 20 minutes or so, when Talia Al Ghul took over as the main antagonist. Yes they built up to it, but Talia Al Ghul just wasn't a captivating villain like Bane was.
The movie had some actual problems, most of them occuring in the final act. Some of the character decisions and the excessive cop worship bugged me but I can overlook most of the camp like Robin, the Talia death and some of right choreography.
I do not understand people calling it boring.
The opening sequence? The stadium scene? The underground Bane standoff? The chase scene? How the hell does that "bore" people?
Honestly every moment of this movie is entertaining and atmospheric to me. I rewatched every Batman movie during quarantine and I found myself enjoying this one much more than I had remembered.
I also appreciate a world that allows Batman to live a normal life.
I do not understand people calling it boring.
The opening sequence? The stadium scene? The underground Bane standoff? The chase scene? How the hell does that "bore" people?
Honestly every moment of this movie is entertaining and atmospheric to me. I rewatched every Batman movie during quarantine and I found myself enjoying this one much more than I had remembered.
I also appreciate a world that allows Batman to live a normal life.
It has interesting ideas that it fails to execute upon and the writing goes literally all over the place and feels like it belongs to a much longer film than this one. Entire plot threads go nowhere and the villains go from interesting to generic in the blink of an eye. It's just a film that tries to do way too much and lots of elements suffer for the essentially rushed or underdeveloped plot lines. This becomes especially apparent when it argues certain ideas about the status quo being terrible and effecting people, then drops that thread completely and has Batman essentially work to preserve that status quo. That's always been Batman to a certain degree, but it especially falls apart when your film is taking so much influence from other stories about inequality and the failure of wider systems. There's just a lot of it that doesn't work and it's writing is all over the place.
I don't hate the film and I used to really enjoy it til I took another look at things. I mean, it's a shame because a lot of elements do really work and could have been so much better with smaller tweaks. Tom Hardy as Bane while whitewashing the character, was a genuinely great performance that he owned when the film wasn't writing him into a worse character. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman showed little flashes of brilliance throughout, but she wasn't given much to do. Michael Caine gives a stellar performance as Alfred as always, even if it feels out of character for Alfred to leave halfway through the film. Likewise, Gary Oldman just absolutely will always be Jim Gordon in my mind and he kills it here as always. And I do really love the general idea of a Batman who gets beaten and then is forced to return with a renewed conviction. Again, I don't hate it, and Nolan always has amazing technical work, but I'm more able to recognize its many flaws these days.
I don't hate the film and I used to really enjoy it til I took another look at things. I mean, it's a shame because a lot of elements do really work and could have been so much better with smaller tweaks. Tom Hardy as Bane while whitewashing the character, was a genuinely great performance that he owned when the film wasn't writing him into a worse character. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman showed little flashes of brilliance throughout, but she wasn't given much to do. Michael Caine gives a stellar performance as Alfred as always, even if it feels out of character for Alfred to leave halfway through the film. Likewise, Gary Oldman just absolutely will always be Jim Gordon in my mind and he kills it here as always. And I do really love the general idea of a Batman who gets beaten and then is forced to return with a renewed conviction. Again, I don't hate it, and Nolan always has amazing technical work, but I'm more able to recognize its many flaws these days.
It's a really long and really messy movie, Catwoman's kinda wasted in it, Bane is completely impossible to take seriously (and for a series of the Nolan trilogy's tone even Joker could be taken more seriously), the Talia twist actually makes both her and Bane worse characters as a result, and there's a good number of really stupid and hard to ignore plot choices like Bane robbing Wall Street like a bank, literally every cop marching into the sewers only to get trapped for months, and JGL's character literally being named Robin.
It's not a bad movie per se but it's easily the worst of the Nolan trilogy by far.
It's not a bad movie per se but it's easily the worst of the Nolan trilogy by far.
It's a decent movie, but it gets really contrived at times in order to hit its plot points. It often has to force things to get its big moments, and the movie's mood suffers for it.
Still a fun movie and well worth watching. But it does have a lot of "wait, that makes no sense" moments, while the first two movies had way less of them (but they still had them).
Still a fun movie and well worth watching. But it does have a lot of "wait, that makes no sense" moments, while the first two movies had way less of them (but they still had them).
its not as good as BB or TDK but its still a solid movie.
Some of the flaws that have been previously noted start to become more apparent and cringey over the years when your love for the film isn't as strong.
haha that kind of sucks. Sounds like one of the tougher aspects of being an actor. You might think you acted the shit out of a scene, and the people behind the camera choose something completely different.
Some of the flaws that have been previously noted start to become more apparent and cringey over the years when your love for the film isn't as strong.
haha that kind of sucks. Sounds like one of the tougher aspects of being an actor. You might think you acted the shit out of a scene, and the people behind the camera choose something completely different.
There's plot holes and then there's just bad plot.
It's a plot hole for the flaming bat symbol. It's fine, it's a visually interesting moment that's more about its thematic intent. It's dumb, but it works for me.
Bad plot is the hinging Bruce's fortunes on the Bane robbery. It's just stupid all around and it's a central part of the rest of the plot.
Plot holes in a movie about a dude dressed up as a giant Bat are more or elss fine to me (rewatching that Talia death scene, she's not the only one that looks ridiculous). It's the things like the robbery and the police being trapped in a sewer for months that are just too dumb even more me.
It's a plot hole for the flaming bat symbol. It's fine, it's a visually interesting moment that's more about its thematic intent. It's dumb, but it works for me.
Bad plot is the hinging Bruce's fortunes on the Bane robbery. It's just stupid all around and it's a central part of the rest of the plot.
Plot holes in a movie about a dude dressed up as a giant Bat are more or elss fine to me (rewatching that Talia death scene, she's not the only one that looks ridiculous). It's the things like the robbery and the police being trapped in a sewer for months that are just too dumb even more me.
Should have been a 2parter. Far too much happening and the cops underground stuff was ridiculous. Bane's army would have been much more interesting if it comprised disaffected Gothamites.
There is always some careless shit in Nolan movies and this was no exception.
There is always some careless shit in Nolan movies and this was no exception.
It's a film that both feels overly long but also tries to fit far too much into the run time.
It's ambitious to its own detriment.
It's ambitious to its own detriment.
I remember postponing my 2012 vacation for a week just to see this movie, I was totally obsessed with The Dark Knight and this was my most anticipated sequel. Boy...if this movie is great than Raimi's Spiderman 3 is a modern masterpiece.
The supporting characters are totally useless and somehow I think that their onscreen time combined is more than Batman's. For some reason I felt Bruce was a guest in his own movie here. Also it doesn't help that Hathaway's Catwoman is a boring character, not to mention "Robin".
The fight scenes are among the worst I've ever seen. Batman and Catwoman VS the henchmen is laughable in the editing, also I've never understood why the terrorist that are fully armed wait for the unarmed cops to start a royal rumble. It feels stupid and unnatural. And Im not talking about plot holes and stuff like that because when I see a movie I usually don't pay attention to them, but this scene really stood out because they are distant and literally wait for the cops to come and start hitting them with fists. Who does that? lol. The Bane fight itself is bad. Also ...its height. He is buffed and all but when you see Batman in full armor against him something feels wrong.
The pacing. Movie starts very slow and suddenly everything happens toward the end. Some of the characters motives are never explained, you just have to guess which in some cases is fine but here it's just boring.
The ending. It's bad
So yeah I think this is a bad movie overall and not just compared to the other 2 in the trilogy but compared to every Superhero movie ever made. Id rather watch Forever or Batman and Robin over this, at least they are entertaining with all their flaws , you can't even say that about this one.
The supporting characters are totally useless and somehow I think that their onscreen time combined is more than Batman's. For some reason I felt Bruce was a guest in his own movie here. Also it doesn't help that Hathaway's Catwoman is a boring character, not to mention "Robin".
The fight scenes are among the worst I've ever seen. Batman and Catwoman VS the henchmen is laughable in the editing, also I've never understood why the terrorist that are fully armed wait for the unarmed cops to start a royal rumble. It feels stupid and unnatural. And Im not talking about plot holes and stuff like that because when I see a movie I usually don't pay attention to them, but this scene really stood out because they are distant and literally wait for the cops to come and start hitting them with fists. Who does that? lol. The Bane fight itself is bad. Also ...its height. He is buffed and all but when you see Batman in full armor against him something feels wrong.
The pacing. Movie starts very slow and suddenly everything happens toward the end. Some of the characters motives are never explained, you just have to guess which in some cases is fine but here it's just boring.
The ending. It's bad
So yeah I think this is a bad movie overall and not just compared to the other 2 in the trilogy but compared to every Superhero movie ever made. Id rather watch Forever or Batman and Robin over this, at least they are entertaining with all their flaws , you can't even say that about this one.
I really thought we were past the time where the fact a female character wasn't 'sexy' was a knock against a film.
It kind of suffers from "third movie" syndrome. The first two movies were incredible, the third had a lot to live up to. I enjoyed it, especially because they did so many call backs from Begins. I thought TDKR was the best "comic" movie of 2012, I certainly enjoyed it a lot more than The Avengers.
You do have to wonder what might have been if Heath Ledger was still alive, I recall reading one possible plan in the third was to have The Joker give Batman advice Hannibal Lecter jail cell style.
You do have to wonder what might have been if Heath Ledger was still alive, I recall reading one possible plan in the third was to have The Joker give Batman advice Hannibal Lecter jail cell style.
It's about climbing out of your depression and being relieved of your childhood trauma.
It was an earnest attempt at showing to rise above your trauma, and it kinda went over the top, but that was the idea of the entire trilogy.
The ending is showing that Blake is about to go through the same experience.
It was an earnest attempt at showing to rise above your trauma, and it kinda went over the top, but that was the idea of the entire trilogy.
The ending is showing that Blake is about to go through the same experience.
"No more dead cops! Give us a cop army!"
In all seriousness though, I believe it when people say that Nolan's heart just wasn't in this one. I think a lot of people, Bale included, felt the same way. One thing you can count on Nolan saying in those interviews is "I didn't really consider a third film, because how many good third films are there in these trilogies?"
Obviously he's right. I think his mind was elsewhere, and it shows in how he has all these ideas and themes he's trying to implement (while catering to Goyer's enthusiasm for Bane as a villain), and not really thinking of things in terms of a "Batman film". Batman is barely in the damn thing. So there is a serious lack of balance in tone and structure for such a long ass movie.
Still entertaining as all hell and Bane is easily more memorable than most comic book film villains. It's not a bad film, just a misguided one.
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It is a noticeably messy film predecessors, made worse by following up two of the all time greatest works in the genre.
That said there are plenty of excellent moments. Batman's fight with Bane in the sewer and his goodbye to Gordon are both incredibly effective.
The entire ending was very impacting, even with the "Robin" name drop lol.
That said there are plenty of excellent moments. Batman's fight with Bane in the sewer and his goodbye to Gordon are both incredibly effective.
The entire ending was very impacting, even with the "Robin" name drop lol.
Imagine finding Anne Hathaway "unsexy"
As someone that has gone through depression, it's such a triumphant film.
Bruce climbed out of his depression.
I know a lot of people don't appreciate it, but I do.
It's really hard.
Bruce climbed out of his depression.
I know a lot of people don't appreciate it, but I do.
It's really hard.
