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Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
I mean, they're still happening. Recently got that Chicken Wiggle one done and got Grant Kirkhope's music onboard so that was pretty awesome. You're just not in the loop I'd guess. You could say bigger projects aren't happening as often but that's about it.

Regardless I'd like to see more and more games come from this. Undertale is one of my favourite games of all time by a good margin and it was fully kickstarted.

This is the kind of thing that lets genuine passion projects live without constraints and without the fear of publisher deadlines. You couldn't have gotten something as magical and just filled with love like Undertale if it was made on Toby Fox's tight budget or under a big publisher that could change everything about it.
 
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Deleted member 6137

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,386
Crowdfunding was just as big in 2017 as it was in 2015 and 2016. It's just that there are fewer big projects.
 

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
Crowdfunding was always patronage. You weren't investing to make a profit. You weren't preordering a product. You were giving someone money to work on something and HOPEFULLY they would make it but you were doing it, at least partially, for altruistic purposes.

I think it's regrettable that crowdfunding has decreased in popularity. We could go on and on about the reasons, but it allowed room for fresh ideas and experiences unfettered by the factory-line production mentality of companies like EA. However, the kickstarter era did go a long way to proving that there is interest and profit (both creative and financial) to be gained from low-scale and mid-scale projects. The AAA scene feels much less oppressive than it did 5 years ago, said companies (EA, etc) feel much less important, and many of the games garnering interest are exactly that (low/mid-scale).

So that's good.
 

Deleted member 2317

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,072
I just helped fund a 1.5+ million RTS game and two games I backed (For the King and Battletech) are shipping this month.

I think it's more a matter of if you pay attention to Kickstarter or you only hear about projects others bring up to you.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
Too many games I backed have been giant disappointments or simply take twice as long as promised and I simply stopped backing anything. The one that did actually deliver is one I decided to not back (Thimbleweed Park), but then Fangamer made a special collector's box available for everyone for a decent price so I feel like it was still the right choice to not back it.

/edit: Oh Undertale was a crowdfunding game I guess, that game is an all-time classic so that's 2 I guess.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I don't see how you can really reach the conclusion that people "got smarter with their money" or didn't like "surrrendering their consumer rights".

There haven't been any high profile Kickstarters in years, so there's no way of knowing how the scene has cooled because supply is as much an issue as demand.

If Yuji Naka went to Kickstarter, pepole would go nuts. If Team Silent went to Kickstarter, people would go nuts. All this nonsense about "Oh well people gave up because Mighty Number 9 sucked" would disappear.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,772
NoVA
It honestly seems like once that 3 million dollar bubble burst, bigger developers went back to seeking capital elsewhere.

Personally I'm glad it's worked for smaller teams, but I can't say I haven't been burnt by a lot of stuff... still clinging onto hope that TJ&E and Bloodstained were worth the reckless amounts of cash I dropped.
 

Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,855
For me, it was being burned too many times. Last kickstarter I backed was Dies Irae, which is handled so badly, that it if it wasn't so niche, it would be headline news. People received rewards with other people's names on them....
 

Sectorseven

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,560
I think people got used to paid betas and early access which made them impatient with the thought of paying for something that is likely years away from release.
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,977
WeeklyExcitableHake.gif


Men like Keiji happened.
 

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
I backed more games that sucked, than the ones that were worth playing. I don't have time or patience for it. These days I will only crowd fund "real" things. Like if a family gets totally fucking wrecked by a bad accident, or a healthcare crisis they can't afford to deal with, I'll do what I can.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
They started to release, and people realised that a lot of the time a crowd funded game isn't much different from a conventionally released one. The 'magic' is kinda gone now.

Also, and this is purely me pulling stuff from my arse, I think the state of gaming these days has a lot to do with it. The Kickstarter trend seemed to come at the end of a period where everyone was complaining about games all homogenising. It felt like creativity was slipping away from the industry and when people came along offering what many felt was lacking they kinda jumped at the offer.

But now we're living in a time when new high profile ip's are releasing and bringing new and interesting things to the table. Established series are re-inventing themselves and finding a lot of success doing so. I think there's less of a need to go outside of the conventional parts of the industry in order to find creativity, or at least there's a general impression that that's the case.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,664
The big games from known developers are outliers. Crowdfunding is used mostly for smaller devs and/or amateurs.
This. Those big projects with huge names, the long awaited sequels and successors, were always the minority of KS. They just got the most attention and made the most noise, so they became the face of Kickstarter, despite them being outliers

But small indie projects have always been the majority and those are still steadily succeeding on KS.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,274
Do you really want to live in a world without Banner Saga, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Pillars of Eternity, Thimbleweed Park, Yooka-Laylee and Shenmue 3? I don't. I feel RPGs and cRPGs have profited the most from this form of financing. But I have only heard from games to back when they made it to gaming news sites. I guess you need some good PR despite being small.
 

MRORANGE

Nice thread btw :)
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,570
UK
Most of them have been good for me like Wasteland 2 and Defence Grid 2

but I am still waiting for my other KS to come out (supposed to launch 2015):

 

DarkFlame92

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,656
I really wished we could see tripple A successes in the crowdfunding department,but seems like all the good talent has already been hired and doesn't need crowdfunding. I guess it's good for indies or small projects
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,426
Some of you have a warped look at reality. A scammy Kickstarter is the outlier and not the norm (from the bigger projects)
Even critical or financial failures are not common.
We had one of the most critically acclaimed Kickstarter come out last year (Divinity Original Sin 2)
There are still some high profile kickstarted games in development

What "declined" was the news-worthiness and the volume of new big Kickstarters. many of the people who could deliver a good product have either:
- recently released a product
- found publishers who finance their next game because they proved they could deliver a financially viable product in a niche or forgotten genre
- or are currently working on a game.


Also the nostalgy effect is wearing off, forgotten genres are no longer forgotten.
 

EmSeta

Member
Oct 29, 2017
46
The only KS game I ended up really liking so far has been Tex Murphy, and that sadly seemed to have been unsuccessful.
 

Fiel

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,265
I think both developer and backer somewhat taste a bitter medicine. So both party are back off.

The real problem can compare to:
You want to eat sandwich right now but this has to wait for 2-3 hours , after 2-3 hours you may not want it anymore.

The only kickstarter thing that i think is the most safe bet is fashion category. Sometimes i use it to preorder some good looking or functional swag. Fashion category works out for me 8 out of 8 delivered.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,796
Big devs stopped using it as publishers warmed up to funding games again

It's still great for indies and in particular board games. Board game Kickstarter is unstoppable.
 

tenderbrew

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,807
People complained on the projects that didn't deliver and then the natural market worked itself out.
 

Venom

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,635
Manchester, UK
Too many millions were scammed from people, projects failed because budgets weren't thought through properly and many more.

Kickstarter was good whilst it lasted but people can only see their money run off into the sunset so many times.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,664

denpanosekai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,299
Mighty No.9 happened.

Was going to be my post but got afraid of being warned for drive by posting. Not that it's a particularly controversial opinion...

I got burned by mn9 like most of you but I'm thrilled about shenmue 3 and bloodstained along with smaller projects like battle Madeleine and Yuki FX. I really only care if there's a physical disc and most smaller projects are digital only so I'd rather wait and see for the majority of them.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,658
Video game development is expensive and the amounts developers get on Kickstarter isn't enough for medium to large scale games so it just leads to delays and disappointment. The most dependable games I haven't been disappointed with have been smaller scale RPGs by Hairbrained Schemes with games like the Shadowrun series, and more expansive RPGs by Larian with Divine Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2, where Kickstarter was only used to supplement development costs with extra features like voice acting.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,426
Mighty number 9 had in the grand scheme no big impact on crowdfunding. The successes vastly outnumber the failures.

But I think I am talking against a wall. Kickstarter got GOTY games kickstarted and many notable big releases have 80+ metacritic
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,527
The Stussining
Still happens smaller games get funded all the time. just don't see as many "big name developers" making Kickstarter games anymore which dosen't get forums and social media talking as much. Like if Cliffy B's new game were kickstarted it would be on the front page with tons of attention right now discussions the camping cause he is attached to it.
 

TwiztidElf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
141
In the board game space, kickstarters is still absolutely massive and have delivered some of the best and biggest board games made in the last few years. The current hotness Gloomhaven was a kickstarter.
Boardgames obviously don't have the high stakes and risks that video game kickstarters have. Once the board game rulebook is revealed, people pretty much know exactly what they're getting, it's just the stock quality question from there.
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
Mighty number 9 had in the grand scheme no big impact on crowdfunding. The successes vastly outnumber the failures.

But I think I am talking against a wall. Kickstarter got GOTY games kickstarted and many notable big releases have 80+ metacritic
Pretty much this. Saying Mighty No9 killed it is like saying you won't buy a commercial game ever again because you bought one shit one (with good word of mouth) at some point, lol. Yeah crowd funding is a risk, yeah other people are willing to risk it depending on the project even if you aren't and KS is reporting success after success not to mention new platforms like early access, fig, patreon, whatever else, popping up all over the place to get in on that pie. Crowd funding is a success and here to stay whether you like it or want to feel smarter and put others down because you wait for the games to come out first or not. Without crowd funding there would be no Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2, no Wasteland 2 and 3, no Shovel Knight and expansions, no SUPERHOT, no FTL, Undertale, Night in the Woods, Hyper Light Drifter, Banner Saga Trilogy, no numerous other great titles that weren't necessarily crowd funded but showed there's a market for them or allowed the studios to self fund after being more literally kickstarted, maybe you could do without them or still do, you can't deny any of it or that it even brought whole genres back from obscurity and allowed tons of now acknowledged studios to fulfill their potential and get to where they are instead of struggle or dissolve. No amount of failures changes that just as the majority of games being less than great doesn't make the whole industry shit.
 
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pixelpatron

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
Seattle
The problem is/was creative people pitched games that didn't make any business sense. Building a game, as opposed to funding, managing, and financing a game are completely different skill sets and some had no clue what they were getting themselves into.

Just fulfilling the backer rewards with postage for t-shirts and swag left many successfuly (that's inaccurate btw) funded kickstarters bankrupt before they were even half way through development on the game. None of the kickstarters I've seen really take into account QA, builds, and software licenses. It's a HELL lot more expensive thank 100k to even do a simple game. Which is why so many crowd funded games fail or are just not very good.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,574
What other games do you want to see crowdfunded? There's only so many high-profile IP revivals that can take place, because there are only so many high profile IPs that need to be revived..

This. Also, while your post feels disingenuous...I'll play your game OP:

A new Castlevania-like from the Castlevania man!

Not out yet. I'm probably going to love it personally, but I see a ton of people complaining about it so I'm gonna guess it does decently but only scores about a 75.

A new Mega Man-like from the Mega Man man!

An admitted failure. No argument here. But then I never cared about Mega Man outside of RPGs. Let me know how Red Ash does if it ever happens.

A new 3D platformer from ex Rare men!

One of those games that people who love it really love it, and arguably the success of the Kickstarter is what led to the return of Crash and now Spyro. From that perspective, they successfully revived 3D Platformers that aren't named Mario.

A new RPG from some known RPG men!

This is vague, but the reality is anyone that's a cRPG has no reason to complain. Wasteland, Pillars, Tides, Divinity...you won, man. Those games all reviewed fairly well and are generally quality experiences. Arguably cRPGs as a genre don't really exist without KS.

A new Shenmue from the Shenmue man!

We didn't really get that game yet, but the hype is still there as strong as ever.

You barely hear about "big" announcements on Kickstarter anymore. And I wonder why that is. Is it really just that some of the big projects didn't deliver, is it really that simple? The reality is obviously that a large majority of the big kickstarters (I'm arbitrarily defining "big" as ~1 million or more raised) turned out to be amazing or at least good games but does that matter when enough of them fail?

Or is it maybe that people discovered the limitations of Kickstarter: that a kickstarted game, no matter how successful, cannot recapture the nostalgic feelings you had for those games when they were made with a much higher budget years ago?
What do you think?

You don't hear about big Kickstarters anymore because there aren't that many projects that can be revived left. Japanese developers never really cottoned on to it like Western ones did outside of a handful of people: Inafune, Igarashi, Suzuki. Kojima could've gone with Kickstarter but instead got snapped up by Sony. Sakaguchi had a Kickstarter like program attached to Terra Battle where additional downloads would result in new content, but he never resorted to it either. And Western developers have managed to achieve quite a bit with it--Obsidian kept themselves going until they got Take 2 to fund a bigger project, for instance.

Honestly what really happened is that AAA gaming collapsed--or more accurately, it contracted. Such that only a handful of developers are truly making AAA games anymore, while everyone else has resigned to creating AA titles or indie games and trying to get in where they fit in. As such, they don't need large budgets--they make their dream project and place it on Steam as Early Access or hit up all the major indie gaming shows promoting their titles the old fashioned way.

The thing everyone in this thread seems to be missing is that, as far as I know, there aren't any major Kickstarters from oldheads being pitched anymore. This OP suggests that they are and that they've failed, but that's not it. Like someone else said, if Sakaguchi got on Kickstarter and was like "I wanna make a game reminscent of Final Fantasy" and the concept art looked like Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler, wallets would freaking fly open.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,633
The bigger chunk of the 2014-2016 exposure came from gamers that only were into KS for the big titles, and they lost interest with time if they were not into crpgs.
 
OP
OP
Shelbyville Milhouse
Oct 25, 2017
22,416
This. Also, while your post feels disingenuous...I'll play your game OP:
I'm not really playing a game here?
I crowdfunded Broken Age, Wasteland 2 and 3, Divinity 2, Pillars 1&2 and Yooka-Laylee I and don't regret backing any of them, especially the cRPGs.
That's why I included the list of crowdfunded games and their scores so we don't need to have the "most big crowdfunded games were failures" discussion that seems to pop up every time.

This OP suggests that they are and that they've failed, but that's not it
No? Not really? At least not intentional?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,664
I'm not really playing a game here?
I crowdfunded Broken Age, Wasteland 2 and 3, Divinity 2, Pillars 1&2 and Yooka-Laylee I and don't regret backing any of them, especially the cRPGs.
That's why I included the list of crowdfunded games and their scores so we don't need to have the "most big crowdfunded games were failures" discussion that seems to pop up every time.


No? Not really? At least not intentional?
Big crowdfunded games like those are and always were outliers, though. They just felt more prevalent because they're the campaigns that get the most attention and the most scrutiny, and attract people who don't usually back stuff. Thus if there's a failure or the game isn't good, their dissatisfaction is amplified because that's their only experience with crowdfunding

But small projects and debut projects have always been the majority, the ones that get funded and then release unassumingly, that people might even not know was crowdfunded. Like Darkwood, Factorio, and Catacomb Kids were all crowdfunded, for example
 
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Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,934
You can still do pretty well through crowd funding. It's a cool concept. I've backed more music than games, but I haven't really been burnt yet. Sure, some middling albums, but no outright stinkers for me. I'm happy swinging a bit of cash to people I really appreciate and want to encourage.

There are still plenty of recent successes. Iron Harvest as an RTS for example has recently done 1.2 million (their final stretch was 1.5, maybe they will reach it). That's cool to me.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,664
You can still do pretty well through crowd funding. It's a cool concept. I've backed more music than games, but I haven't really been burnt yet. Sure, some middling albums, but no outright stinkers for me. I'm happy swinging a bit of cash to people I really appreciate and want to encourage.

There are still plenty of recent successes. Iron Harvest as an RTS for example has recently done 1.2 million (their final stretch was 1.5, maybe they will reach it). That's cool to me.
I believe they did when you factor in off-KS pledges
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,476
Well, I backed these three: Star Citizen, Crowfall & Camelot Unchained.

CU was soppused to be in beta and has had some development issues, SC well.... SC...
Crowfall developement seems to be going well though.

So that's 2/3 not really turning out they way it should.
 

jimboton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,421
For me the existence of Hollow Knight, Hyper Light Drifter, Divinity, Shovel Knight, Candle and Valdis Story alone more than validates Kickstarter as a game funding platform but it seems too many people backed the wrong project and decided to take out their bitterness on the crowdfunfing idea itself.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,172
China
No Ragrats

1*NJAa3ZgOI7VcAPJkqgvBKg.jpeg


Seriously. In the VN scene there is one publisher who seemingly put every second game on Kickstarter, even though one of their trilogies is selling like hotcakes...
It hurt other VN devs/pubs who want to release it on KS and it stops people backing VNs in general.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,146
I wonder if a lot of folk are like me where they've backed a lot of stuff over the last few years but are waiting on most of it to be released before funding any more. I think I've backed about 24 projects on KS and I'd say about half are yet to release. Maybe when they're out I'll back some more, but for the most part I think a lot of the initial crowd funding craze has just naturally expired.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,664
People's perspective of Kickstarter rests pretty much entirely on what they backed. But I don't think it's just all random shot-in-the-dark gamble like some say. You can make informed decisions based on stuff like:
- the campaign page design
- scope vs funding goal
- the current state of the project
- the rate and substance of project updates
- the developer's response to questions and concerns
- if there is footage versus only concept art, if there's a demo
- if the campaign has a breakdown of how funding will be used
- if the developer has been cataloging progress through a devlog or Screenshot Saturday
- how long has the developer been working on the game before the campaign
- if the developer has worked on other games (meaning flash games, game jam entries, freeware games, prototypes, etc, not just AAA)
- have sites covered this game before
etc

When I back something, that's what I'm looking for and researching

From an older similar thread last year, an incomplete list of good games that were crowdfunded. A bunch of stuff released this year or have release dates for this year (ie Cultist Simulator) that aren't on here
Rain World
Elite: Dangerous
Stasis
Rimworld
Organ Trail
The Fall
Darkwood
Factorio
Divinity Original Sin 1
Divinity Original Sin 2
Darkest Dungeon
Undertale
Shovel Knight
Hyper Light Drifter
Grim Dawn
SuperHot
Hollow Knight
Night in the Woods
The Banner Saga
Kentucky Route Zero
FTL
Thomas Was Alone
Skullgirls
Sunless Sea
Lisa
Dujanah
Battle Chasers: Nightwar
Four Sided Fantasy
Spintires
Sir, You are Being Hunted
Haque
Sethian
Kingdoms & Castles
Battle Chief Brigade
Solistice Chronicles: MIA
Trackless
Sword of the Stars: The Pit
In The Shadows
Black The Fall
Star Crawler
All Walls Must Fall
Armello
Awesomenauts
Chivalry
Dex
Satellite Reign
Distance
Consortium
Hadean Lands
Neverending Nightmares
Kim
Masquerada: Songs and Shadows
Where They Cremate the Roadkill
Vidar
Songbringer
A House of Many Doors
Heart & Slash
The Way
Concrete Jungle
Dropsy
Unrest
Freedom Planet
Xenonauts
1979 Revolution Black Friday
Cosmic Star Heroine
Thimbleweed Park
Faeria
Pillars of Eternity
Wasteland 2
This is the Police
Duelyst
The Flame in the Flood
Aviary Attorney
Hard West
Read Only Memories
Jotun
Shadowrun Hong Kong
Shadowrun Returns
Chroma Squad
Hand of Fate
Gods will be Watching
Among The Sleep
Octodad 2
Broken Age
Risk of Rain
Divekick
Expeditions Conquistador
 

Aphex

Member
Apr 13, 2018
46
I've only backed Bloodstained but I've been happy with the progress it's been making and the monthly update information. The time for me to really judge if it was all worth it, before an actual full game release, will be the next Alpha/Beta in June.