What If...? |Spoiler OT| Groot Was One Of Us?

[Scuffed]

After watching the Agent Carter episode I stopped watching this show for awhile. I liked the episode but I didn't love it. Anyway we binged the rest of the show over a few days recently and holy cow what a turn around. I really liked all of them and I think this series has been pretty amazing.

 

[odiin]

It's so weird that people are still arguing whether or not the stones work outside of their original universe when we already know they work outside of their universe on account of seeing them work outside of their universe.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

It's so weird that people are still arguing whether or not the stones work outside of their original universe when we already know they work outside of their universe on account of seeing them work outside of their universe.

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the confusion is whether or not the past times they travel to in Endgame are other universes or not. they are.

but this episode should put the question of whether or not they work in other universe to bed for sure.

 

[Judau]

It's so weird that people are still arguing whether or not the stones work outside of their original universe when we already know they work outside of their universe on account of seeing them work outside of their universe.

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Let's keep asking, just in case.

 

[Qikz]

the confusion is whether or not the past times they travel to in Endgame are other universes or not. they are.

but this episode should put the question of whether or not they work in other universe to bed for sure.

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The times they travel back to in endgame are in the same universe, they're time travelling in the same universe rather than travelling through the multiverse.

 

[Mandos]

that's exactly what his argument is. you cannot travel to your own past with this method of time travel. They're simply navigating through the Quantum realm to end up at a specific time, but that is a different universe upon the point of entry. Even if he's come up with a method to prevent a timeline split in that universe.

Now, there are other methods of time travel in the Marvel Universe that could allow one to travel to their own past, but Hulk's theory of time travel via Quantum realm doesn't account for that.

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Time stone and dooms time machine. Most people aren't foolish enough to mess with the former and the latter broke the universe due to overuse

 

[JaseC64]

Is there someone "above" the Watcher? Not talking about Dr Strange Surpreme. I guess he will help him next episode but I mean from the comics? Where are the Eternals and those other giant cosmic beings on this multiverse? I guess Marvel doesn't show these characters unless they have been introduced but I feel they hold back on lots of characters. Hard to say how Infinity Ultron stacks to others. Surprising he could beat The Watcher.

BTW this episode. Omg this is peek MCU shit. Loved it. It felt on the same level as theblive actions movies. Just so much awesome stuff happening. If this was a full 1+hr movie, I'd totally watch it.

If this is the type of content D+ will keep making, I'll definitely keep my sub going. I got in the 3 year for $140 deal from a while back. Gonna suck once it ends but I'll likely end up paying full price. I didn't expect this series to be good and yet it's blowing any expectations I had. Awesome stuff!

 

[adj_noun]

Is there someone "above" the Watcher? Not talking about Dr Strange Surpreme. I guess he will help him next episode but I mean from the comics?

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The Living Tribunal springs to mind.

 

[mbpm]

Is there someone "above" the Watcher? Not talking about Dr Strange Surpreme. I guess he will help him next episode but I mean from the comics? Where are the Eternals and those other giant cosmic beings on this multiverse? I guess Marvel doesn't show these characters unless they have been introduced but I feel they hold back on lots of characters. Hard to say how Infinity Ultron stacks to others. Surprising he could beat The Watcher.

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I think Galactus, and The Living Tribunal, and The One Above All

I wouldn't expect to see them here though

 

[timedesk]

Would Alioth be at Watcher level because it can consume entire timelines?

 

[Kharnete]

Is there someone "above" the Watcher? Not talking about Dr Strange Surpreme. I guess he will help him next episode but I mean from the comics? Where are the Eternals and those other giant cosmic beings on this multiverse? I guess Marvel doesn't show these characters unless they have been introduced but I feel they hold back on lots of characters. Hard to say how Infinity Ultron stacks to others. Surprising he could beat The Watcher.

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*Plenty* of them. For as powerful the Watcher(s) may be, on the cosmic scale they are just minor dudes with a creepy role. For instance, let's take a look at this splash page from the original Infinity Gauntlet comic:

Spoiler

I mean, you even have the embodiment of everything that exists in a single being, and there are plenty more. Although in the MCU they have been scarcely used or just teased in a easter egg way, and mostly in the Guardians movies. The first one has one of the most cruel teasings of the MCU, with this mural in the temple at the start:

I'm quite happy they are slowly diving into Cosmic Marvel. Is the superior Marvel form.

 

[JaseC64]

^^wow sick!

I'm a Marvel noob so thanks for the info. Very excited on where Marvel is taking the franchise. Definitely expanding their audience for sure lol.

 

[Dalek]

Is there really no Funko Pop of The Watcher?

 

[Smoolio]

*Plenty* of them. For as powerful the Watcher(s) may be, on the cosmic scale they are just minor dudes with a creepy role. For instance, let's take a look at this splash page from the original Infinity Gauntlet comic:

Spoiler

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Mostly all men, the two women are emotions, oh old comics sigh haha.

 

[Kharnete]

Mostly all men, the two women are emotions, oh old comics sigh haha.

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Yeah XD. Although for instance Eternity has a sister, Infinity, and Death is a lady (and seeking her love/attention is the reason why Thanos does what it does in the comics, so much metal). But yep, the trend is clear.

 

[KAMI-SAMA]

Episode 8 was fantastic straight through. The way Ultron became aware of the Watcher, split Thanos in half, the fight between Uatu and Ultron and then it all coming back to Superior Strange. 👍

But please for the love of God, can they stop with all the quips in every god damn MCU related thing? Why the hell are Black widow and Hawkeye quipping and joking nonstop in a post apocalyptic world where essentially EVERYTHING has been destroyed including all their family/teammates. Didn't Ultron fire off nukes over the entire planet? They should be in hazmat suits or something with all the radiation left behind.

Oh and the low reaching joke about The Watcher being a creep from Ultron during a serious battle…. Ugh.

 

[Smoolio]

Yeah XD. Although for instance Eternity has a sister, Infinity, and Death is a lady (and seeking her love/attention is the reason why Thanos does what it does in the comics, so much metal). But yep, the trend is clear.

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Yeah still a lot of cool stuff, I was sad there was no Death in the MCU but probably a bit silly. Still a great base overall for the future of the MCU cosmic, that I'm sure will make strides in this line of thinking.

 

[Callibretto]

Is there really no Funko Pop of The Watcher?

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huge head, pupiless eye, it's basically a Funko

I wish they had the armored watcher version

 

[ThatMeanScene]

60 iterations of the central finite curve, there's a Kang that works more with wood, than with polarity plating. His name is Simple Kang, but he's no dummy. He realized long ago that the greatest thing he'd ever create was his daughter. We captured that moment. We run it on a loop through Simple Kang's mind. And the chemical it makes his brain secrete goes into every Simple Kang's Simple Wafer's Wafer Cookie. Come home to the impossible flavor of your own completion. Come home to Simple Kang's.

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I didn't know what I was reading here until the end of the cookie sentence. Ya got me. Bravo. lol

 

[Punjabi_Hitman]

I don't get why you guys think Thanos is consistently written as some super powerful being in the comics.

He jobbed to Kitty Pride in that one Guardians by Bendis and then he jobbed to a device built by Blue Marvel and T'Challa.

 

[mbpm]

I don't get why you guys think Thanos is written as some super powerful being in the comics.

He jobbed to Kitty Pride in that one Guardians by Bendis and then he jobbed to a device built by Blue Marvel and T'Challa.

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IIRC

-He also threw down with Odin who has destroyed galaxies
-Destroyed a planet just by fighting near it
-Has telepathic capabilities great enough to disregard telepaths around Professor X's level
-Gone through dimensions that have the laws of physics no longer apply to the point where he was melting/turning into -glass and then regenerated/toughed them out because of willpower/molecular control
-Was unscathed by dedicated assault by Silver Surfer who can pretty easily blow up planets and has Flash type speed
-Consistently was a threat to the whole Marvel universe not because of any of the above specifically but because he was smart enough to come up with plans to get power like the Infinity Gauntlet
-Was a key role as an avatar of Death in ending a universe of corrupted/rampant life

But like someone said, maybe that's the Thanos before the one we have now *shrug*

Also one time the cops arrested him, but that can happen to anyone

 

[Punjabi_Hitman]

IIRC

-He also threw down with Odin who has destroyed galaxies
-Destroyed a planet just by fighting near it
-Has telepathic capabilities great enough to disregard telepaths around Professor X's level
-Gone through dimensions that have the laws of physics no longer apply to the point where he was melting/turning into -glass and then regenerated/toughed them out because of willpower/molecular control
-Was unscathed by dedicated assault by Silver Surfer who can pretty easily blow up planets and has Flash type speed
-Consistently was a threat to the whole Marvel universe not because of any of the above specifically but because he was smart enough to come up with plans to get power like the Infinity Gauntlet
-Was a key role as an avatar of Death in ending a universe of corrupted/rampant life

But like someone said, maybe that's the Thanos before the one we have now *shrug*

Also one time the cops arrested him, but that can happen to anyone

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lol I know that but this guy also jobs depending on the writer lol.

he also withstood a full blast scream from Black Bolt without any infinity gems, where just a whisper can level a city which would make Thanos the same cosmic level threat as the likes of Galactus etc.

But my point is comic book characters are never consistent no matter the medium

 

[mbpm]

lol I know that but this guy also jobs depending on the writer lol.

my point was comic book characters are never consistent no matter the medium

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I mean, the MCU is supposed to be this big shared connected universal vision so that's *like* having one writer, and I do prefer having somewhat consistent characters in that aspect.

And some characters get more consistency than others in any case.

I'm not too put out by it since it's an Elseworlds tho

 

[Aprikurt]

Episode 8 was fantastic straight through. The way Ultron became aware of the Watcher, split Thanos in half, the fight between Uatu and Ultron and then it all coming back to Superior Strange. 👍

But please for the love of God, can they stop with all the quips in every god damn MCU related thing? Why the hell are Black widow and Hawkeye quipping and joking nonstop in a post apocalyptic world where essentially EVERYTHING has been destroyed including all their family/teammates. Didn't Ultron fire off nukes over the entire planet? They should be in hazmat suits or something with all the radiation left behind.

Oh and the low reaching joke about The Watcher being a creep from Ultron during a serious battle…. Ugh.

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Nah the creep joke was good sorry

 

[TheKeyPit]

From the Doctor Strange episode:
universe ≠ timeline

 

[T'Chakku]

Episode 8 was fantastic straight through. The way Ultron became aware of the Watcher, split Thanos in half, the fight between Uatu and Ultron and then it all coming back to Superior Strange. 👍

But please for the love of God, can they stop with all the quips in every god damn MCU related thing? Why the hell are Black widow and Hawkeye quipping and joking nonstop in a post apocalyptic world where essentially EVERYTHING has been destroyed including all their family/teammates. Didn't Ultron fire off nukes over the entire planet? They should be in hazmat suits or something with all the radiation left behind.

Oh and the low reaching joke about The Watcher being a creep from Ultron during a serious battle…. Ugh.

Click to shrink...

I would understand if this was about the poor humor in the zombies episode, but this episode? No. The humor was good and well placed here.

I have complaints about humor in some MCU properties, primarily AoU and Doctor Strange, but reading criticisms about quips and jokes from some people makes me realize that, if they had their way, these things would be dour, joyless affairs.

Complaining about hazmat suits is so nitpicky. Might as well start complaining about the way they travel in space or robots dying from getting shot with arrows. This isn't hard sci-fi.

 

[mbpm]

I wouldn't get rid of the all the quippage with this ep, just maybe about 20% here.

This episode was way better about it than the zombies on tho. Also MCU's ultron was always quippy so that was fine for me

 

[MechaOctobot]

What if this episode was "What if... inifinity stones worked in other universes"

 

[Pai Pai Master]

When everyone else you love is dead all you have to keep you going is trolling your bff

 

[T002 Tyrant]

What if this episode was "What if... inifinity stones worked in other universes"

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It's possible that Ultron can alternate the frequencies of the stones to match each universe's gem frequency.

Or some bullshit like that. 😅

 

[Mandos]

What if this episode was "What if... inifinity stones worked in other universes"

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It's possible that Ultron can alternate the frequencies of the stones to match each universe's gem frequency.

Or some bullshit like that. 😅

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Or he's just absorbed enough of their energy he doesn't actively need them anymore

 

[OtakuCoder]

See, I just interpreted the "Stones don't work in TVA" thing as being due to a special property of the TVA rather than anything to do with the stones. Until an MCU film/show brings up that stones might not work in other realities it seems safe to assume it isn't a thing for now.

 

[KAMI-SAMA]

Nah the creep joke was good sorry

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To each their own. Removed the tension from the scene that a powerful monster like Ultron gave off.

I would understand if this was about the poor humor in the zombies episode, but this episode? No. The humor was good and well placed here.

I have complaints about humor in some MCU properties, primarily AoU and Doctor Strange, but reading criticisms about quips and jokes from some people makes me realize that, if they had their way, these things would be dour, joyless affairs.

Complaining about hazmat suits is so nitpicky. Might as well start complaining about the way they travel in space or robots dying from getting shot with arrows. This isn't hard sci-fi.

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We have different definitions of well placed humor then. Now I'm not saying there should be no humor at all. (Don't know how you reached that conclusion) But, in a drastic time where they're the only 2 surviving people left possibly on the entire planet, they really want to make jokes? Black Widow asking if this color looks good on her with the shield or joking about Francis as Hawkeye's middle name? 🙄 Makes you forget that trying to stop an all powerful entity that killed all their friends and all life on the planet. The reason why the end of Infinity War hit so hard is because they cut out the quips and humor at the end as half the friends died and half the universe was snapped.

You could say the hazmat suits are nitpicky but the MCU has been known to have all sorts of small details in their productions that get praised all the time. It just would sell the point better. But eh 🤷‍♂️

 

[Choppasmith]

I've noticed there's quite a bit of "X would NEVER happen with Y because REASONS" posts between Thanos splitting in half and stuff like "How would Strange/Tony let themselves get infected?"

The way I think of it is out of the COUNTLESS universes where many of them were able to defeat the proposed scenario, this is the ONE where EVERYTHING goes wrong and the typical logic you'd assume would counter it goes out the window. That one in a billion worst case scenario.

 

[jph139]

I don't have a problem with jokes in general, but the jokes in What If have been like... really, really bad. Just low-hanging fruit, generic quippage, poorly written and poorly delivered. The "fun" episodes have been consistently the worst part of the show because they're just not funny.

Even the worst culprits in the mainline MCU when it comes to "bad jokes" don't touch it. Stuff like GOTG2 is full of jokes that don't land, but it's still like a 50% hit rate. What If is 10% if I'm being generous. They feel like the one-off silly episodes of stuff like Clone Wars and the other Star Wars cartoons. The ones that "watch guides" always tell you to skip, because they're just there to cut the tension for kids.

 

[T002 Tyrant]

Hear me out. Anyone else think we'll get a Kang kameo at the end of episode nine?

Like all seems lost and suddenly Kang turns up and just kills Ultron with ease, and becomes season 2's antagonist?

I just think it'd be a great way to show how powerful Kang will be in this Saga to just single handedly beat the currently largest threat to the multiverse.

I also kinda want Zombies to spill into other multiverses 😬

 

[Ramala]

I wouldn't get rid of the all the quippage with this ep, just maybe about 20% here.

This episode was way better about it than the zombies on tho. Also MCU's ultron was always quippy so that was fine for me

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The issue here is, I think, emotional reality has to operate slightly different for the format to work. You can't have What If… Zombies and have characters realistically reacting to other major characters' deaths. It would be a mess. The same goes for quippage. If you approached these What If scenarios with the gravitas the premise would necessitate if it happened in a mainline Marvel timeline, you'd have no fun at all.

 

[Lightus]

Wow that last episode was really good. Ultron biting the galaxy was a Thanos throwing a moon moment haha

The directing this ep was really good too. Felt very "tight" but not too rushed.

Also regarding the jokes thing, I've always seen it as the heroes almost having a screw loose or something. To maintain hope and remain focused after apocalypse level events requires an illogical perspective on things. Hawkeye is a bit more "normal" in that sense and started to break down to the point where even he was like "okay Natasha, this isn't an appropriate time for jokes". Ultron making jokes makes sense because that's his personality as established in Age of Ultron. He almost had more banter than Tony did in that. The zombie episode took it too far (making a weird joke video in the middle of an apocalypse?) but it was sorta addressed there too as Peter explained it's a coping mechanism.


Also, where do we think this takes place chronologically in reference to Loki? I'm assuming after as that'd explain why the TVA didn't go in to shut Ultron down before he got too powerful. (Or I guess as chronologically as you could hope to explain it as the timeline stuff breaks down a bit once you view the TVA as existing outside of time)

 

[spookyduzt]

Hear me out. Anyone else think we'll get a Kang kameo at the end of episode nine?

Like all seems lost and suddenly Kang turns up and just kills Ultron with ease, and becomes season 2's antagonist?

I just think it'd be a great way to show how powerful Kang will be in this Saga to just single handedly beat the currently largest threat to the multiverse.

I also kinda want Zombies to spill into other multiverses 😬

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Im half expecting this to happen, and I'd honestly be surprised if he doesn't show up.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I'm still going with what I said after episode 1: Agent Carter will appear in a live action mid-credits scene.

 

[VegiHam]

But, in a drastic time where they're the only 2 surviving people left possibly on the entire planet, they really want to make jokes? Black Widow asking if this color looks good on her with the shield or joking about Francis as Hawkeye's middle name? 🙄 Makes you forget that trying to stop an all powerful entity that killed all their friends and all life on the planet

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Didn't Hawkeye made this exact point? He asked Widow to stop kidding around because he was tired and everything was fucked.

 

[Punchline]

i have no idea how black widow and hawkeye are the only people to survive in this. i feel like thats the farthest my suspension of belief has ever been pushed.

 

[Mandos]

i have no idea how black widow and hawkeye are the only people to survive in this. i feel like thats the farthest my suspension of belief has ever been pushed.

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They were in space when everything got nuked, sneaked back after things settled down

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Is there other people on earth you think, why are there sentries just patrolling around if they think everything is dead.

 

[Soupman Prime]

I've noticed there's quite a bit of "X would NEVER happen with Y because REASONS" posts between Thanos splitting in half and stuff like "How would Strange/Tony let themselves get infected?"

The way I think of it is out of the COUNTLESS universes where many of them were able to defeat the proposed scenario, this is the ONE where EVERYTHING goes wrong and the typical logic you'd assume would counter it goes out the window. That one in a billion worst case scenario.

Click to shrink...

Listened to a podcast where the last half was complaining about Thanos being split in half. If I had a nickel for everytime someone said wow Vision could've beat Thanos in IW id be richer than the Starks and Wayne's lol.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

Has anyone asked why ultron didn't just snap his fingers to eliminate all life? Or does he like a more personal touch.

 

[davepoobond]

Has anyone asked why ultron didn't just snap his fingers to eliminate all life? Or does he like a more personal touch.

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he is a robot so he doesn't have creativity

though I guess eating a galaxy is some inventive shit

 

[Aceun]

Loki answered the stones question in the very first episode. He was able to use the space stone to escape the Sacred Timeline thereby creating a new universe. The stone worked until it was taken into the TVA where no stones work.

One could argue that pulling the stones from the past still occured within the same timeline, but consider if there was even one extension those stones would exist in a new universe.

If the stones were never returned, a bunch of new universes get created but those stones remain active in whatever present now exist because you can't undo what already happened.

Similarly, if you take the stones to the future (even if you later return them) another universe would be created automatically and the stones would still function.

The TVA would likely prune these timelines/universes in both instances, but then again the TVA is under new management so who knows what madness we're in for.

 

[MasterYoshi]

Chances that Infinity Stone Ultron could cross over into a live-action film? That is a really strong design.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Has anyone asked why ultron didn't just snap his fingers to eliminate all life? Or does he like a more personal touch.

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Cuz he aint about that "humane" mass genocide like Thanos is