Which is impossible in Sweden since we don't give one person that power.
What role and place do conservatives and Republicans have on this fourm?
- Thread starter Heromanz
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Which is impossible in Sweden since we don't give one person that power.
Angela Merkel's party is conservative. And she allowed millions of refugees into Germany.
From a non-American perspective, there are two right-wing parties in the USA. One that's batshit crazy populist right wing, and one that's more right wing than traditional conservative parties in Europe.
It's too bad that many members of this forum lack a more global perspective. I realize that traveling is expensive and therefore not an option for everyone, but reading international news occasionally to get an impression of the world outside of the USA wouldn't hurt.
Yeah, that as well.
The "Moderaterna" which is the right wing party in Sweden that has been around the longest, would be marked as commies by americans.
Their purpose would have been to bring balance to what is supposed to be a new site.
Supposed to prevent falling back to the left eating each other.
Supposed to prevent falling back to the left eating each other.
I seriously doubt Sweden can isolate themselves from the worldwide conservative movement toward fascism. It might have enough safeguards to protect itself for the short term, but external forces and internal forces combined will lead to the inevitable end.
Keeping conservatives in power is reckless and dangerous.
We can't, of course, and we have a party that is on the rise (2nd - 3rd largest party) that is based on what your describing.
But, as I said, we do have a system in place that, I can't say is 100% bulletproof, but very strong in its check and balance.
Would be nice but this place is just like the old one where if your view point is even slightly off from what they want it's a ban. There are tons of posts with red stripes on them saying the person was banned when maybe let them stick around for a bit and argue or discuss their position not just silence them. To me liberal means almost anything goes but not here man bans all over the place.
Please cite examples of people banned for reasons you think were because "liberals are silencing conservatives" and not for violations of the TOS.
Dems are to the left of Merkel and the Canadian Conservatives among others
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's just like the old place, I hope it doesn't get to that point.
All Merkel did was initiate phase one of what I call the fascist manifesto. If you don't have a large enough minority population in your country to blame for issues your party will cause to society, then make one. It's hard to apply fascism when you don't have a scapegoat.
Never trust conservatives in power when they say they need more immigrants, they just want cheap labor and a group to condemn when they implement far right policies.
You should always question whether your beliefs are valid, but not based on who allows you to discuss them.
Not being allowed to say something in a certain place does not necessarily mean you're the one who's in the wrong. There are probably places that would ban even you for whatever beliefs you or anybody else may hold. Those places may offer something unrelated to those beliefs, though, which is why somebody may still want to post there despite that.
And this is why I don't like to post about serious matters. One person asks for an opinion, and then someone else posts an insulting drive by snarky reply.
Again, another example of someone posting something against the grain and being responded to with personal attacks.
The lack of civility is downright depressing.
But I'm sure conservatism in Sweden is not conservatism in the US. I would imagine Sweden has a very European-centric type of conservatism, whereas the United States has something similarly to a party of radical extremists.
What conservative in Sweden believes children don't have a right to literacy? Or to health care? I'm sure anyone who does would be considered fringe and crazy, and yet what I just said are views people are absolutely okay with in American life.
This is why I said earlier the ideal future of America is between progressivism and the Democratic party, for they've moved to the right under Reagan and only seem like "far leftists" because the right kept on moving. This is the same party that believes the ACA, which was Republican healthcare, is now too left of a position to support because a dark skinned man tried to compromise with criminals.
In response to the bolded, how do you feel about the $609b price tag for the US military?
I keep seeing this argument of "well different priorities." Here's the thing and please listen up people not in the USA who still feel they can chime in on this. Before you try to argue that please take a look at Republican platforms and campaigns. Take a look at some of our debates on tv, campaign websites, advertising, etc. Now, only after doing that, come back and start listing what actual priorities the Republican Party was offering, for ANY of their candidates, that takes priority over basic civil rights minority groups and the LGBT community, women rights to their body, xenophobia anti-Muslim policies, building a freaking wall to keep Brown people out, etc.
Was it the "mah guns"? Because very few if any democrats I know run on actually banning all guns. Including Hillary.
Was it jobs? Because if you notice very few Republicans, including Trump actually have a jobs plan during campaigns. Hillary did. A good one that even offered a legitimate solution to help rust belters and those in dying industries.
Tax breaks for the rich and corporations?
This shit isn't obscured over here. It's upfront and center. Ignorance is not an excuse here, it's literally on the tv even if they don't read. So what is the priority they are ACTUALLY putting over basic human decency and rights? You've already had at least one Republican in here admitting to it but none of you all "debate them" could change his mind or even tried to(one even commended him while calling liberals bigots, go figure). While the liberals here you claim are intolerant tried again for the 50th time to debate this guy with the same bad faith disingenuous results.
When are we going to start seeing you all in these threads debating the Republicans instead of wagging fingers at liberals?
I think it is obscene when we crumbling infrastructure, 43.1 million people living in poverty, crippling student debt, etc.
Don't forget "extreme" poverty.
We have Americans, per the United Nations, now living in conditions defined as third world.
What I'm learning from this thread is that people who support immigration are fascists and people who oppose immigration are fascists. This is helpful to know.
... what... you are not serious I hope.
So whatever a goverment do, it is fascism if it is a moderate goverment.
But then, a socialist goverment, everything is just to become a one party state and communism then?
Immigrantion and conservatism are contradictory ideas. When a conservative government wants immigrantion it isn't because of compassion or altruistic ideals. It's because the government is starting the process to become fascist.
Reciepts.
Since this isn't true at all for Sweden as of today and historically.
Merkel didn't open the doors to refugees under the guise of Germany needing more immigrants.
Sorry, I think this is a really silly viewpoint...
There should be none, but I'm afraid compared to even 15 years ago, things are so polarised these days, seems like libs and cons can't get to respectful debates much anymore, at least where I've seen. Always tends to devolve into someone being labelled a racist or a communist or tree hugger or some such thing.
A lot of my liberal friends have turned quite extreme against our more conservative lot, even if said conservative lot also think Trump is a monster. Just seems like if you happen to lean even a liiiiiitle bit to the right or left, you're labelled on the extreme end, but could just be the people I see on Twitter/social media.
Screw the actual racists and heartless child-cagers and all that, and maybe if you do consider yourself Republican, you are automatically complicit in all that regardless of if you disagree.
I do very much lean to the left, but I do still hope that somewhere, there's a forum (literal or not) that allows proper discourse between both sides, but not sure if they exist.
Can anyone point me to one?
A lot of my liberal friends have turned quite extreme against our more conservative lot, even if said conservative lot also think Trump is a monster. Just seems like if you happen to lean even a liiiiiitle bit to the right or left, you're labelled on the extreme end, but could just be the people I see on Twitter/social media.
Screw the actual racists and heartless child-cagers and all that, and maybe if you do consider yourself Republican, you are automatically complicit in all that regardless of if you disagree.
I do very much lean to the left, but I do still hope that somewhere, there's a forum (literal or not) that allows proper discourse between both sides, but not sure if they exist.
Can anyone point me to one?
And to add.
A person can be conservative but realize that we need immigrations for population increase, certain type of jobs that is immigrant heavy (which is bad but I won't go into that now).
Or it can also just be of humanitarian reasons...
I'm fine with conservatives as long as they don't talk completely out of their ass like this.
I have little to no respect for the current republican party or people still willing to associate with it, but it's arrogant to assume the only policy answer to help solve our society's problems is more government. There is room at the table for conservative arguments.
The rest of the world isnt just europe though. Lots of people that say this seem to mostly focus on the western world. Many east Asian and south american countries are racist as fuck and would make many US conservatives seem progresive.
It's a new phenomenon that I'm noticing since the Arab spring.
Historically countries that are/were fascist already had a large minorty population to demonize in order to further policies of allowing a small select class of people to profit off the government unabated. But what happens when you don't have those conditions in your country but you want to enjoy the same unethical and evil benefits that others have in their country? You force those conditions. Mass immigration. It's one of the first warning signs of a conservative government descending to fascism. Look at Germany for example.
There isn't one because there is no actual discourse with the American right.
Even if they think "Trump is a monster" they still belong to and support a party that, as a whole, completely supports and encourages everything Trump says and does.
You cant debate people that think it's ok for their party to lock kids in concentration camps.
You cant debate people that think it's ok to remove all safety nets from over 300 million people so that they're all fucked in one minor incendent.
You cant debate the right. Their beliefs are so evil and toxic that they're actually delusional. They believe they are right, despite every day the world telling them they are wrong.
Are you actually being real here, you think Angela Merkel is a crypto-fascist, laying the foundations for fascist policy by opening Germany to millions of refugees? Even by your own deranged logic that makes no sense, Germany has been home to lots of minority ethnic groups like Turkish immigrants for decades.
I assume a conservative government that did the opposite of what Merkel did, would also be just be going along with the Fascist Manifesto, right?
Are you actually being real here, you think Angela Merkel is a crypto-fascist, laying the foundations for fascist policy by opening Germany to millions of refugees? Even by your own deranged logic that makes no sense, Germany has been home to lots of minority ethnic groups like Turkish immigrants for decades.
I assume a conservative government that did the opposite of what Merkel did, would also be just be going along with the Fascist Manifesto, right?
That would be phase 5. Phase 2 is having the media effectively conditioned the population to hate said minority group.
Phase 3 is imposing unfair laws to minority group. Phase 4 is then getting rid of political resistors.
lol whatever man.
Is this just your own interpretation or did you actually read this somewhere?
Is this just your own interpretation or did you actually read this somewhere?
You're probably right, unfortunately. Trump has basically purged the Republican party of much of its humanity. My big thing to them was always 'man, if Obama did a tenth of what Trump's doing, I'd tell him to f*** off too, but you won't'. Hell, after Spacey, Franken, CK, etc have been treated after their f ups, I got my proof there.
Still, there are extremists to the left who won't change their minds either, and I'm guilty of that sometimes, thinking my progressive ideas are always best. I try my best to read FoxNews (just to see what's going on there) and I don't even get 30 seconds into scrolling through their page that I get disgusted and move on. Must be how extreme right people about going on MSNBC or...well...mostly everything else lol
All joking aside, just sucks overall we can't actually have any bipartisan discourse now. And I thought the W. Bush years were bad!!
This is a myth
Follow the line: Bush, Bush, Reagan, Ford (he might be the exception), Nixon.
This ides that the GOP used to be humane is nonsense
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most bipartisan discussion was with people who really weren't affected by Republican views. With the Advent of social media more people were able to speak out again.
Reminds me of John Oliver's intro one time that made me laugh and cry: 'The 90s--when we all agreed Nazis were bad' :( :(
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Let me tell you something not everyone agree that Nazi we're bad I'm the 90s
Which reminds me
One of the articles published this week to argue why McCain was one of the good Republicans was they he once said he'd have killed Nazis to save Anne Frank.
Yes someone literally in 2018 wrote an article about McCain being Anti-Nazi as if it was some brave bold meaningful thing.
Right, because you have one party that 's "fuck everybody but rich people, mostly rich White people" and you have the other party that's "we just want to spend some money to help people, if we can, please?
What is there to Conserve? Conservatism would actually make sense if there were two Left parties.
"we do want to help people, let's just not go crazy now" vs "we want to help everybody spend spend spend!"
How can you claim to be conservative without coming across as a huge asshole in the current political climate?
Since apparently you aren't joking, that's some of the worst conspiracy nonsense by a member of this forum I have seen so far. It's nuts.
I think the dominant political attitudes here reflect the site's vocal youthful core more so than any sort of well thought out, shared political ideology. Like most prior generations, the youth here distrust the establishment, loathe the wealthy, and seek to upend power imbalances. The current youthful core will mature, understand the world is a messy place full of failure and uncomfortable comprises. Soon, they'll become part of the establishment. Attention will be diverted towards starting families, career advancement, creating wealth. A new batch of youthful optimists will displace them.
And yet only "concerned" at Trump and the rallies and not a peep about the alt right.