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ScOULaris

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,831
While Mario Odyssey had the unfortunate fate of living in Galaxy's shadow the entire time I played through it initially, my opinion of it has softened with time. I still maintain my criticisms of the game with regard to lack of platforming challenges, trivial and repetitive moons, and the wildly inconsistent quality between some of the kingdoms, but now that I've had some time to reflect and revisit the game since its launch over a year ago I've come to enjoy it for what it is. It's a more laid-back and experimental kind of 3D Mario game, and I respect the chances that Nintendo took with its design.

But there's one major change to the Mario template that Odyssey made that I hope sticks around for good, and that's treating coins as actual currency.

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Doing away with lives and structuring both the in-game economy (shopping) and death penalty around coins was a stroke of genius in Odyssey, and I can't imagine ever going back to the old paradigm after this. While coins held more weight in earlier Mario games due to their relatively punishing difficulty at the time, they've long been little more than a means of drawing players' attentions to hidden areas or optimal jump paths. In most Mario games post-SMW lives are so easy to come by that a seasoned player would typically never run into a situation where lives or coins would make or break having to redo a chunk of the game. If coins only serve the purpose of adding up to extra lives, then they lose all meaning when limited lives are never a concern in the first place.

Mario Odyssey says, "fuck all that" and treats coins like actual currency that is worth going out of your way for. The implementation of kingdom-specific currency in the form of purple coins that buy kingdom-specific rewards was an equally fantastic bit of world-building and game design in a single stroke too. I've recently decided to revisit Odyssey to show my toddler Mario in a more 3D, close-up fashion than what he's been seeing with NSMBU Deluxe, and the core gameplay loop that I've found myself gravitating toward is trying to hunt down the remaining purple coins in each kingdom that I'd missed so I can buy all of the souvenirs/stickers in the game. While doing that I'm naturally coming across new moons (I'm somewhere around 695 right now) and regular coins that I'm saving up for all of the expensive DLC costumes that have been added to the game since launch. When was the last time hunting down coins of any kind in a Mario game was engaging? It's amazing what a difference it makes to have something worthwhile on which you can spend all of the coins that Mario picks up on his travels.

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While I can't say that I'd necessarily want the next 3D Mario game to adhere to Odyssey's overall design direction, I know for sure that this one aspect was such an improvement that it should become standard going forward.

That's my two cents, anyway. Odyssey upends a bunch of tried-and-true Mario conventions in a variety of ways, so I look forward to hearing what the rest of you valued the most among all the contrbutions that it made to the series.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Giving Mario a personality for the first time in over 30 years.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,036
Having actual new enemies, types of characters, and even real people. A far cry from where mainline and even spinoff mario has been for years until it.
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,050
On a more meta level, taking risks with the gameplay and design instead of playing it safe like the last decade.
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,522
-FINALLY adding value to currency (fucking eat shit NSMB2)
-Speeding up star/moon/sunshine progress by a significant amount by removing "resets".
-Hair textures
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,768
Other than the no lives system, his new moveset, and outfits, I appreciate the new races of creatures in the game. They help to make the Mario universe come alive amd I wouldn't mind seeing them in future Mario RPGs.

Giving Mario a personality for the first time in over 30 years.
But Mario had a personality in his various RPGs.
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
Using capture as a replacement for power-ups. It makes them feel more natural (they're just in the world) and you also get to see them in use before you even take them over. It's pretty cool.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
Cappy. For the obvious answer. A more complex answer would go into detail about how much it does to expand meaningful play-space without the jank of former open mario games like sunshine. And it's ability to cater to lower and higher level players without the need for multiple difficulty levels (lots of Mario games do that, but this one I think does it especially well). Compare similar concepts in Odyssey to older 3D Mario games and Odyssey often comes out favorably in how the main path and alternate path weave together in a great way. Much like 3D World but expanded much further.
 

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
Not a "new" contribution, but I ultimately feel its biggest contribution to the evolution of the series is transitioning back to the sandbox design of 64/Sunshine and away from the obstacle course template of Galaxy/Galaxy 2 and 3D Land/World. Hell, even in 64/Sunshine you selected a mission before entering a level, and Odyssey even does away with that.

In terms of broadest design influence, I think that'll be its legacy.
 

Fuchsia

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,683
Not a "new" contribution, but I ultimately feel its biggest contribution to the evolution of the series is transitioning back to the sandbox design of 64/Sunshine and away from the obstacle course template of Galaxy/Galaxy 2 and 3D Land/World. Hell, even in 64/Sunshine you selected a mission before entering a level, and Odyssey even does away with that.

In terms of broadest design influence, I think that'll be its legacy.

Yeah. This is what I appreciated Odyssey most for: the return to sandbox exploration. I do think we could strike more of a balance between obstacle course gameplay and exploration though. This would hopefully make everyone happy.
 

Deleted member 12162

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
273
Mario's moveset in this game is really fun. I'm fine if the capture system stays for future Mario games, it really works. Odyssey changed up Mario for the better, and would love to see a sequel!

PLUS, using coins as currency really made it better!
 

azeke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,220
Astana, Kazakhstan
Mario's moveset in this game is really fun
There is nothing new about Mario' s moveset in Odyssey, outside of a hat throw and it's related transformations (which are just power-ups which previous games had just as many if not more). ALL of the Odyssey's moveset was present in previous 3d Mario Games -- especially in 3D Land/World:

  • Rolling on the ground and extra long jump out of rolling was introduced in 3D Land (extra long roll jump was subsequently removed in 3D World and Odyssey to make the game slower).
  • Special boost jump out of a butt stomp exists in 3D World.
  • Spinning helicopter jump was introduced in Sunshine and was brought back in 3D World.
  • Air-dash was in Mario 64 and Sunshine.
The only actually new move they added was ledge grab, from what i remember.
 

requiem

Member
Dec 3, 2017
1,448
I don't know if it can technically be counted, but refining Mario's move set to literal perfection is my favourite thing about Odyssey.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,908
The moveset for me. Best game-feel since Mario Sunshine!

I also like that it felt more like a journey compared to before. The vehicle felt more like a vehicle, and the little cut-scenes with cappy added to it as well, but mostly I guess that we were following Bowser's path, and you had the occasional accidents and crashes and unexpected kingdoms to get through, sometimes losing Cappy. I thought it was a big step up compared to previous Mario games.
 

Procheno

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 14, 2018
2,879
Gameplay enhancements/new abilities being tied to enemies, not just items

Could open up a lot of possibility in the future
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
19,031
Mario's moveset and the capture mechanic.

Throw those in a game with refined, linear, levels and you would have the perfect 3D Mario game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
There is nothing new about Mario' s moveset in Odyssey, outside of a hat throw and it's related transformations (which are just power-ups which previous games had just as many if not more). ALL of the Odyssey's moveset was present in previous 3d Mario Games -- especially in 3D Land/World:

  • Rolling on the ground and extra long jump out of rolling was introduced in 3D Land (extra long roll jump was subsequently removed in 3D World and Odyssey to make the game slower).
  • Special boost jump out of a butt stomp exists in 3D World.
  • Spinning helicopter jump was introduced in Sunshine and was brought back in 3D World.
  • Air-dash was in Mario 64 and Sunshine.
The only actually new move they added was ledge grab, from what i remember.

Cappy makes a big difference though. Having effectively all the old stuff back along with the cap throw and being able to jump off the cap makes a big difference. And the roll, while technically present in 3D World, works very differently in this game. Putting it all together and it is the most extensive, diverse, and useful the moveset has ever been.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,908
There is nothing new about Mario' s moveset in Odyssey, outside of a hat throw and it's related transformations
You're forgetting the actually important new thing: You can jump up in the air, throw your cap, make a jump-dive and bounce on the cap, and then make yet another jump-dive. It gave you a lot of air time that made way for lots of short-cuts and acrobatics, and it was plain fun to do. THIS is what made Mario Odyssey so good.
 

RainRainRain

Member
Jan 15, 2018
831
Bringing back open levels, a heart meter, stars (moons), etc.

I really wasn't a fan of 3D World at all.
 

Ravenwraith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,390
I can think of very few ways to improve on how Mario controls in odyssey. Most of the other games controlled excellently but had an obvious flaw or accessibility issue. Odyssey is air-tight.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,593
Yes roll in both 3D World and Odyssey is notably worse than in 3D Land.

It's clearly not..... I'm not sure how the roll in Odyssey is worse when it's faster, lasts as long as you want, and links into a long jump just the same as in past games. It has proper momentum in this game as well. You're gonna have to explain that one because it straight up makes no sense.
 

RainRainRain

Member
Jan 15, 2018
831
It's clearly not..... I'm not sure how the roll in Odyssey is worse when it's faster, lasts as long as you want, and links into a long jump just the same as in past games. It has proper momentum in this game as well. You're gonna have to explain that one because it straight up makes no sense.

I only remember using the roll in 3D Land as a long jump replacement, because I felt like the actual long jump in that game was so weak that there was no point in using it.

The Odyssey roll is fantastic. It feels like an actual movement tool ALA the wacky dive from Sunshine instead of just a long jump replacement. It's seriously fun to just roll all over the place and gain momentum when you go down a slope... is this a Sonic game? Lol.
 

JayBee

Alt-account
Banned
Dec 6, 2018
1,332
I can think of very few ways to improve on how Mario controls in odyssey. Most of the other games controlled excellently but had an obvious flaw or accessibility issue. Odyssey is air-tight.
I can think of one. The slight delay before mario goes from jump to dive. It doesn't feel as fluid as mario 64. It stops for a slight second before it goes into dive. That's kind of all they could improve imo
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
-Speeding up star/moon/sunshine progress by a significant amount by removing "resets".

As far as the 3D line (and particularly the 64/Sunshine line) goes, this is the big one. Previously, the openness and non-linearity of the 64 format were somewhat illusory because objectives were only accessible within a set number of world-states that essentially functioned as separate but recycled stages with a small number of adjustments. Kicking you out with every star or shine only made it obvious. One of Sunshine's problems was that it didn't even bother to disguise this, and some of its worlds were locked into a linear progression, state by state, without much flexibility for chasing an objective of your choosing. SMG1's few "open" galaxies were similar, and only got away with it because the bulk of the game moved towards an explicit multi-stage structure with little environmental repetition. The artificiality of the openness was one reason I never thought that highly of the 64/Sunshine format, and I don't think their conceptual promise was really fulfilled until Odyssey stepped in and made collection seamless. There is a reason that the hub worlds are what hold up best about the earlier games.

There are a few major state changes in Odyssey—an introductory act when you arrive in certain worlds and a second, main act when you settle in—but they don't detract from the overall sense of freeform continuity and player choice from one collected moon to the next.

Personally, however, the most impactful addition was the photo mode. I like to describe Odyssey as a photography game that happens to have a 3D Mario adventure inside it, as that was more or less the main thing I got out of the experience.
 
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Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
Lots of examples in this thread of the things that Odyssey does great (money use, Mario controls and options, variety, good audio..) and why I think is a really good template to do a sequel ala Galaxy 2.

More focused levels, less repetition, more platforming challenges... I see lots of talk about how a new Zelda can use BotW as a base and be even better (which I agree, but I think that BotW is a far better game than Odyssey and it's almost perfect for me) but I think that Odyssey is the really good base to evolve into something really special.