Punchline

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,151
photo mode has gotta be a big one i hope they add back, but ill echo the coins are lives thing (even though mario stole this from wario) and the music design

also it kind of bums me out we're not likely to get cappy back because he extends mario's moveset so well
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Mario 64 design is still the best. It's miraculous that it appeared fully formed over 20 years ago. That was sort of my takeaway.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,398
Making money mean something again is nice, but it's not that new. The star bits basically functioned in the same way in the Galaxy games, although with a smaller number, but more significant, set of things to buy.

I liked the outfits and photo mode

One thing that I don't want to see come back is the capture mechanic, at least if all the captures are going to be so one note and extraneous to the core platforming gameplay. I'd much rather see a set of strong powerups that build upon the main run and jump action rather than asking you to stop and do something totally unrelated for a moment. The only captures that felt interesting as a platformer power up were Pokio, Yoshi, and maybe Glydon. It makes for great trailer material and makes for a fun moment of discovery, but very little meaningful gameplay
 

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,638
Implementing the way Galaxy handles multiple stars in each world in a far more appealing way. For Galaxy, the world and your path through it would change to varying degrees for each star. This made the stars feel more unique and dynamic to get, but at the expense of freedom as your path through the world is pretty much set.

In Odyssey, you get a Moon and then it is onto the next one immediately. The world changes and transforms as you collect story-related moons, but rarely in a way that railroads you for the sake of keeping you on a clear path. No jumping back to the ship. No returning to the same world that now has launch stars and pipes leading different places. Just a new recommended direction in the same open world you were already exploring.
 
Nov 8, 2017
845
The controls, it just feels so good to move around - the hat jump and the way you can change your direction and momentum is incredible. A close second is the focus on exploration and discovery. I know some people like straightforward Mario games but I enjoy this kind more.
 

azeke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,220
Astana, Kazakhstan
It's clearly not..... I'm not sure how the roll in Odyssey is worse when it's faster, lasts as long as you want, and links into a long jump just the same as in past games.
Jump out of a roll is the same in length as "long jump" out of a run. While in 3D Land where rolls were introduced rolling jumps were notably longer than traditional "long jumps out of running" we had since Mario 64.
It has proper momentum in this game as well.
Rolling jump in 3D Land has momentum. It was nerfed in both 3D World and Odyssey to make the game slower.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,626
Jump out of a roll is the same in length as "long jump" out of a run. While in 3D Land where rolls were introduced rolling jumps were notably longer than traditional "long jumps out of running" we had since Mario 64.

Rolling jump in 3D Land has momentum. It was nerfed in both 3D World and Odyssey to make the game slower.

Making the long jump out of a roll longer doesn't make the roll itself better. The roll itself is slower, and stops after one, doesn't continue down hills, etc. Making the long jump have one set distance doesn't make Odyssey's roll worse than 3D Land's when it functions completely differently (aka as an actual, continous roll). And I don't know what you mean when you say the roll jump in 3D Land has momentum. You can repeat it over and over, yes. But it doesn't get faster or slower based on momentum or inclines or other stuff like the roll in Odyssey is able to (again, one of the things that makes the roll in Odyssey a more interesting move on its own than the one in 3D Land). And sometimes it's faster as well. Not sure where this nonsense idea that it's slower came from.

You just seem upset that Odyssey has one set distance for the long jump instead of two and are then choosing to ignore all the other things the game does to make that a non-issue. Odyssey is neither faster nor slower than 3D Land overall, but it does have a larger variety of options for the player to use. Regardless of whether one specific moves isn't as strong, the moves are still there, and other moves are brought in to make for a better and more diverse moveset overall.

So back to the original point... No. The roll in Odyssey is not worse than the one in 3D Land. It is, in fact, significantly more interesting. Since it actually lets you, ya know, roll.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Lots of examples in this thread of the things that Odyssey does great (money use, Mario controls and options, variety, good audio..) and why I think is a really good template to do a sequel ala Galaxy 2.

More focused levels, less repetition, more platforming challenges... I see lots of talk about how a new Zelda can use BotW as a base and be even better (which I agree, but I think that BotW is a far better game than Odyssey and it's almost perfect for me) but I think that Odyssey is the really good base to evolve into something really special.

I don't rate Odyssey quite as warmly as Galaxy 2 or 3D World, but that's precisely why I'd like to see it receive its own Galaxy 2. Odyssey underuses its incredible mechanical foundation and doesn't do much to test even fairly accessible parts of the player's toolkit like the cap jump, leaving it instead to user-generated content like the leaderboards on the Koopa races and the post-launch balloons. (We can argue, perhaps, that this space for community-generated challenges is one of Odyssey's original contributions in its own right.) You see the occasional pile of coins in a hard-to-reach spot as a tip of the hat to players who make it there, but the skill ceiling on the challenge content is fairly low and there aren't many "designed" incentives for the stylish expert play that the player's toolkit permits. As a result, it's a glorious sandbox for self-expression through movement (producing all manner of player-concocted results from balloon placement to photo mode creations to alternative methods for pursuing easy tasks with self-imposed difficulty), but leaves an impression of missing something when it comes to a shared, notorious, designer-imposed achievement we can all commiserate about together. Its foundations leave so much room for further iteration.
 

azeke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,220
Astana, Kazakhstan
Making the long jump out of a roll longer doesn't make the roll itself better. The roll itself is slower, and stops after one
You roll, do rolling jump into rolling further, then do rolling jump and so on.

You just seem upset that Odyssey has one set distance for the long jump instead of two
Long jump and rolling jump are not the same move. You just think they are because rolling jump was nerfed to become identical to long jump post 3D Land.
 

Deleted member 8784

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,502
The controls are so good, and I think the characters (minus the rabbits) are super expressive and a lot more fun. The statues with the sunglasses are one of my favourites.

I wasn't a fan of how easy it was (no fall damage?), and the fact that so many moons are completely unobtainable until after the end of the game felt a bit like padding. I hope they improve those in the next one.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,030
You take costumes as the big takeaway from a game that invents CAPPY? Really?
The costumes and the fact that they're bought with coins were more of a highlight to me than Cappy was. The ability to throw and bounce on your hat was great and should become a mainstay, but the capture mechanic wasn't all that satisfying to me and weird thematically.
 

The BLJ

Member
Feb 2, 2019
698
France
Good momentum physics, including rolling physics. They basically noticed that Sonic dropped it on the ground 15 years ago and they took it up for themselves.
 

AnilP228

Member
Mar 14, 2018
1,360
Mario's moveset and the general physics engine is just heaven.

Galaxy is one of my favourite games ever but I tried to replay it a few weeks ago and found the movement really disappointing.
 

Baby Bird

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,475
- Coins as currency
- Contextualizingthe world of Mario, with different kingdoms and races of characters
- Mario with more personality than ever
- More interactions with NPCs
- Costumes
- The experimental nature of the world and the new characters created
- Mario's moveset
- A playable postgame with cleared main story
 

Dark_Castle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,147
marionipples.w700.h700.jpg

The lack of chest hair is puzzling.
 

Dr. Mario

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,042
Netherlands
The great variety of worlds, clashing art styles and all. After the incredibly derivative New Super Mario 3D World I almost thought they didn't have it in them anymore.
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,789
CT
they designed all of the level goals to happen without leaving the level.

so instead of going in to a level to get a single main star, when you get those key stars the level will change in place

i kind of wish they had differentiated stars that made a change to the level, but i still like the change
 
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Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK
they designed all of the level goals to happen without leaving the level.

so instead of going in to a level to get a single main star, when you get those key stars the level will change in place

i kind of wish they had differentiated stars that made a change to the level, but i still like the change
This.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Don't forget the dog.

Better friend than Yoshi.

i kind of wish they had differentiated stars that made a change to the level, but i still like the change

That would be a very useful change for first time runs. It would be even better if you could trigger theses special stars to change the world in multiple different ways. They could build a whole storyline around this mechanic and give games like Fez and The Witness a run for their world manipulation money.
 
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Dr. Mario

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,042
Netherlands
That time when Mario suddenly went full Dark Souls was also amazing. Actually my wife is playing it right now with the kids and they're pooping their pants lol.

(I laugh now, but I fear I'm going to be beside their bedside a lot this night)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,626
You roll, do rolling jump into rolling further, then do rolling jump and so on.


Long jump and rolling jump are not the same move. You just think they are because rolling jump was nerfed to become identical to long jump post 3D Land.

Ok. So yeah. You are obsessed with one move and ignoring everything else. Ok. Thanks. I don't really know what else to say. I've clearly explained myself and you've just ignored it to repeat "Bu-bu-but! Rolling long jump gone!"

The roll in Odyssey is better than 3D Land due to giving it a separate function and being an actual, purposeful move beyond just powering up the long jump.

Goodbye.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,030
That time when Mario suddenly went full Dark Souls was also amazing. Actually my wife is playing it right now with the kids and they're pooping their pants lol.

(I laugh now, but I fear I'm going to be beside their bedside a lot this night)
Yeah, that was without a doubt the most unexpected moment in the entire game. Came out of nowhere.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,685
For me it was a rare example of freedom without sacrificing density. Ever corner of each level had something interesting to do. When you contrast with the empty, barren Breath of the Wild or other open ended games, it was absolutely a breath of fresh air.

In terms of what it did to evolve Mario specifically, I love that you could just run around the world and discover interesting things on your own, for as long as you liked without being taken out of the world once you completed an objective.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,734
Massachusetts
Moveset/agility. Mario has NEVER been more satisfying to control. I'd love another 3D Mario game that gives him even more moves and designs levels that are actually challenging and take advantage of Mario's athleticism.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,030
Moveset/agility. Mario has NEVER been more satisfying to control. I'd love another 3D Mario game that gives him even more moves and designs levels that are actually challenging and take advantage of Mario's athleticism.
Never has this been more evident than in WR-setting speedruns like this one:



I never thought a 3D Mario would match or exceed M64 in terms of movement options, but I think Odyssey may have finally done it. My only small critique is how rigid the midair dive feels compared to 64. Otherwise it's near-perfect.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,626
Yeah, Odyssey speedruns are definitely top tier stuff. So are most Mario games, but Odyssey's structure makes it my favorite to watch. The bigger speedruns like Darker Side speedruns are so impressive with so many interesting tricks, and the routing via warping through paintings in the post game is very fun to watch.

 

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
The movement is godly.

It also invites the player to get creative and try to parkour to certain spots. And you know the developers did it intentionally because suddenly you'll find a moon or a bunch of coins there.

I loved that
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,766
I wish they take the movement, controls overall gameplay and create a massive open world version with seamless levels and areas. Imagine running from the Mushroom Kingdom to the beach, desert, snowy mountains, caves, underground's etc.
 

azeke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,220
Astana, Kazakhstan
The roll in Odyssey is better than 3D Land due to giving it a separate function and being an actual, purposeful move...
Rolling and roll leap in 3D Land are actual moves that are inarguably the most useful moves in entire game.

Half of the speedrunning footage in 3D Land is literally just rolling, then roll leaping into rolling.

...beyond just powering up the long jump.
Once again, "roll leap" you get out of a roll is not the same as long jump.

It does not "power-up" long jump.

It's a separate move.
 

Nevermeltice

One Winged Slayer
Member
Feb 10, 2019
1,656
I gotta agree with those who said Picture Mode and coins playing a bigger role.

As great as the game might be, the tight controls or movement aren't the best contributions I don't think. Mario's always been a fluid platformer.
 

eseqko

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
I was left wanting more. By the time the mainline game was done I kinda felt like "Damn, that's it?"

I don't see that as a complaint, I see it as I am in for a sequel and will probably spend all my spare time on the next one.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
I think the engine and assets could be used as the base of a much better 3D Mario game, one that's consistently challenging and not overflowing with filler "content".
 

Ayirek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,299
For me the best advancement was the elimination of kicking the player out of the world on death or completion of an objective. Being able to collect a moon and keep going right away was phenomenal, and is a change I hope is made permanent. Also, Mario's moveset has never been so diverse, and that's something I feel absolutely must continue.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,396
North Carolina
Cappy adds a whole new layer to platforming. Other than that coins actually mattering is great with buying things and losing some when you die. Plenty of moons to progress through the game with so people of all skill levels can get through the game. Also a big one is the world not reseting when you get a moon or die. Every mainline Mario pulls you out of the world because each star had its own instance with slight changes to the level sometimes. It cut downtime a ton and just allowed for a more seamless experience.
 

LazyLain

Member
Jan 17, 2019
6,592
Yeah. This is what I appreciated Odyssey most for: the return to sandbox exploration. I do think we could strike more of a balance between obstacle course gameplay and exploration though. This would hopefully make everyone happy.

I personally thought the game did strike a nice balance, there was a healthy amount of obstacle course areas.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,001
Really don't want to look up more info on the 'hard stuff in the post-game' bit but might have to, the odd way power moons are strewn about in the game after the credits doesn't seem very engaging to me when I thought it absolutely would.

I liked the controls enough (SM64 and Galaxy were a better feel for me than Sunshine, 3D World) but outside of Balloon World I can't find a nice place or whole level to do my endurance runs - ala the Bowser levels from SM64. The closest one is probably Bowser's Kingdom.

That's on me, not the game - I like the mini-dungeons but most of the time they require a Cappy capture so Mario's graceful movement is traded in for something else.

I'm missing something aren't I?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,626
Really don't want to look up more info on the 'hard stuff in the post-game' bit but might have to, the odd way power moons are strewn about in the game after the credits doesn't seem very engaging to me when I thought it absolutely would.

I liked the controls enough (SM64 and Galaxy were a better feel for me than Sunshine, 3D World) but outside of Balloon World I can't find a nice place or whole level to do my endurance runs - ala the Bowser levels from SM64. The closest one is probably Bowser's Kingdom.

That's on me, not the game - I like the mini-dungeons but most of the time they require a Cappy capture so Mario's graceful movement is traded in for something else.

I'm missing something aren't I?

Actually most of the game is built so that Cappy isn't completely required. It's just that not using him makes those areas more challenging. Platforms are often placed juuuuuust so that Mario can reach them with just his base moveset. The game is incredibly thoughtful and well designed when it comes to this kind of stuff. Outside of gimmick moons that specifically don't appear without the use of something like, say, jump-roping, or moving the letters around to spell Mario. And even then, jump roping doesn't lock you into a specific, controlled mini-game. It's just out there in the world and you can use different abilities or or items to make it easier. But a moon is just hanging out somewhere, and the goal is just "Get there" (as in the case in most gauntlet rooms), it's very rare that a capture is required to do so. There are exceptions, of course, but with some thoughtful and skillful play without captures in several areas that you wouldn't think you could.




The game is just brilliant in its design this way. Mario is at point A. Your goal is at point B. And as long as getting there doesn't exceed Mario's abilities you can just do it. And the levels are clearly designed to allow and encourage creative solutions, or risky plays. There's no invisible walls that are gonna get in your way. Your sidekick isn't going to yell at you for going the wrong way (the opposite, in fact. Cappy will often praise you for sequence breaking). You're not gonna get "Mission failed" for not following an arbitrary rule you didn't even know existed. You're not going to try to land on a surface and slide off it while your character floats in the air in their falling animation. Other Mario games like 3D Land/World are the same (speedruns of the games are amazing, by the way), but it's just very impressive to see it applied in such large and dense spaces. To see the way an area like Steam Gardens gets bigger and bigger as you explore it and find new areas, and then smaller and smaller as you learn how the areas connect and the shortcuts between them. It's impressive to see a game like this that just bends and bends but never breaks.

I understand some people want more direction, or more fanfare, or more mandatory challenge (actually that one I don't understand as much because the only challenging 3D Mario is Sunshine and it's challenging for all the wrong reasons......), but this style of game is just so fascinating to me. It's so simple on the surface, but so satisfying and clearly took a lot of effort and years of learning from past games to create. To me, this is next level stuff.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Cappy's capture was wondrous since the very first time it was revealed, and remained an amazing design choice throughout. Good times
 

Fuchsia

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,730
I personally thought the game did strike a nice balance, there was a healthy amount of obstacle course areas.

I felt that way also! Don't get me wrong. I just know there are people who want even more of that focused, obstacle course feel. Which I'm ultimately fine with as long as there is still the sandbox/exploration feel to wrap it all together.