Which 2D platformer has better boss battles overall? Mario or Sonic?
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Each has one good entry (YI and Mania respectively) and the rest ranges from mediocrity to filth so I put that they are even. To be honest I'd prefer if both dispense with boss fights altogether from now on.
Additional hot take but I didn't think Tropical Freeze had good boss fights either. "Dodge constant, basic patterns to hit a weak point that shows up in an extremely small window of opportunity three times" is just insanely tedious and it is like the standard Retro boss design, ugh.
Additional hot take but I didn't think Tropical Freeze had good boss fights either. "Dodge constant, basic patterns to hit a weak point that shows up in an extremely small window of opportunity three times" is just insanely tedious and it is like the standard Retro boss design, ugh.
Haha, talk about two extremes.
I will still say tho that it would be Sonic. Yeah the quality is all over the fucking place (and sometimes more bad than good). But I'll say I at least will always remember doomsday zone/death egg robot or even the weird sonic 4 ones more than most mario bosses. As for "better", well I guess it depends on what quality you're measuring (if it's purely function or how memorable they are as bosses)
The mario bosses are functional but to a fault I think. In recent days they've started to add a lot more spectacle but it's still very by the books and I don't always feel they have a huge pay off.
Granted tho, I would love if Sonic bosses could finally manage to have both spectacle and not also be massive janky messes (be it in 2d or 3d)
I will still say tho that it would be Sonic. Yeah the quality is all over the fucking place (and sometimes more bad than good). But I'll say I at least will always remember doomsday zone/death egg robot or even the weird sonic 4 ones more than most mario bosses. As for "better", well I guess it depends on what quality you're measuring (if it's purely function or how memorable they are as bosses)
The mario bosses are functional but to a fault I think. In recent days they've started to add a lot more spectacle but it's still very by the books and I don't always feel they have a huge pay off.
Granted tho, I would love if Sonic bosses could finally manage to have both spectacle and not also be massive janky messes (be it in 2d or 3d)
Rayman Origins
Rayman Legends
Donkey Country Returns
Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
Celeste
Yoshi's Island
Kirby Planet Robobot
Voted for both are equal, but after reading the comments I gotta say Sonic has better bosses due to being more imaginative and creative overally.
Neither are too hard or very memorable though, except for few cases in Sonic games.
Neither are too hard or very memorable though, except for few cases in Sonic games.
I mean.. besides maybe Super Mario Bros. 2 where you had variety on bosses (Mouser, Birdo, Clawgrip, etc), and different strategies of how to beat them, I don't think I could ever compliment 2D Mario bosses... not even Final Bosses.
New Super Mario Bros. DS had some interesting ones... but that's about it.
Super Mario Bros. and The Lost Levels there are barely fights. Super Mario Land 1 shakes things up a bit with a space shooter, which is nice.. Super Mario Land 2 is probably the best one in terms of freshness.
Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, 2 and U and as well Super Mario Bros. Wonder are all underwhelming on that regard.
-- Sonic gets this one by default, but just the ones that actually let you score hits whenever; and not the ones that you have to wait a long animation to play out to hit the boss once (Sonic 4, Superstars, Rush, etc). Especially with 8 hits to finish them off...
New Super Mario Bros. DS had some interesting ones... but that's about it.
Super Mario Bros. and The Lost Levels there are barely fights. Super Mario Land 1 shakes things up a bit with a space shooter, which is nice.. Super Mario Land 2 is probably the best one in terms of freshness.
Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, 2 and U and as well Super Mario Bros. Wonder are all underwhelming on that regard.
-- Sonic gets this one by default, but just the ones that actually let you score hits whenever; and not the ones that you have to wait a long animation to play out to hit the boss once (Sonic 4, Superstars, Rush, etc). Especially with 8 hits to finish them off...
Just remembered how the first boss of sonic 2 game gear gatekeeps you from the entire game with screen crunching one hit kills
Granted that might be a mercy
Granted that might be a mercy
2D Sonic bosses usually have that fine balance of being a threat if you don't know how to fight them, and a mere speed bump if you do. Which is exactly how it should be for a speed-based platformer. The bosses you can't just blitz are the story bosses, Death Egg Robot, Knuckles, various kinds of robot Sonics. And that's fine, they get to be a problem.
Mario just hasn't really been able to find a good niche for its boss fights. I mean, sure, the final boss of Wonder is pretty good, but Mario's strengths in 2D Marios just don't lead to great boss fights. He's a jumper, not a fighter.
Mario just hasn't really been able to find a good niche for its boss fights. I mean, sure, the final boss of Wonder is pretty good, but Mario's strengths in 2D Marios just don't lead to great boss fights. He's a jumper, not a fighter.
I would like TF bosses more if they didn't overstay their welcome, especially that owl boss with 49 phases. The baboon boss was awful though.
DKC 2 bosses are all excellent.
Neither are amazing but i would at least say Classic Sonic wins out due to music and wackiness of some of its fights. The dirty secret here is that platformers lacking a dedicated attack mechanic like say, Yoshi's Island, have a hard time making truly interesting boss fights. In Sonic's favor, he can at least attack bosses unconventionally compared to many platforming characters because he can attack on the ascent of his jumps rather than having to jump up and then land on top of the boss. While many Classic Sonic fights aren't super interesting, there's something entertaining about it throwing Sonic into the boss over and over to beat the shit out of them, and they wind up being so short that they don't really impact the game one way or another imo.
Just when I think I have this memory repressed it always comes back
Just when I think I have this memory repressed it always comes back
Yeah this boss fight alone puts it miles ahead anything the 2D Mario games have done. That shit was cinema as a kid.
I want to add that one of the Sonic Boss Fights is a game of Puyo Pop, so it just automatically wins by default for that alone.
I mean the best bosses in 2D Mario games are from Mario Maker 2.
Outside of user generated content, it would be Yoshi's Island.
I don't think anything in any Sonic reaches these 2 highs.
After that pretty much every Mario boss is trash and I feel like even the OG Sonic 1-3 are better than anything the other 2D Mario threw at us....
Maybe the final NSMBW Bowser fight which was pretty creative.
Outside of user generated content, it would be Yoshi's Island.
I don't think anything in any Sonic reaches these 2 highs.
After that pretty much every Mario boss is trash and I feel like even the OG Sonic 1-3 are better than anything the other 2D Mario threw at us....
Maybe the final NSMBW Bowser fight which was pretty creative.
2D Mario boss fights are kind of awful. New Super Mario Bros. (DS) might actually have the best boss lineup overall, which is really saying something.
Its Sonic unless I can count Yoshi's Island as "2D Mario" (it is Super Mario World 2 in the US).
If we are strictly talking about 2D Mario and Sonic, Sonic gets the win.
Mario 2D has mostly meh boss fights outside the final boss. Sonic 2D has a greater variety of bosses, while can result in bosses that are worse than any Mario 2D boss, the good Sonic 2D bosses outnumber the good Mario 2D bosses by a wide margin.
Mario 2D has mostly meh boss fights outside the final boss. Sonic 2D has a greater variety of bosses, while can result in bosses that are worse than any Mario 2D boss, the good Sonic 2D bosses outnumber the good Mario 2D bosses by a wide margin.
Yoshi's Island would be my pick for having the best out of any of them, but as a whole I think 2D Sonic has better bosses than 2D Mario.
For reference, here's all the Boss Battles in mainline 2D Mario games \/
- Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
- Super Mario Bros. 2 (and Super Mario Advance)
- Super Mario Bros. 3
- Super Mario Land
- Super Mario World
- Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins
- New Super Mario Bros.
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii
- New Super Mario Bros. 2
- New Super Mario Bros. U
- Super Mario Run
- Super Mario Bros. Wonder
- Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
- Super Mario Bros. 2 (and Super Mario Advance)
- Super Mario Bros. 3
- Super Mario Land
- Super Mario World
- Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins
- New Super Mario Bros.
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii
- New Super Mario Bros. 2
- New Super Mario Bros. U
- Super Mario Run
- Super Mario Bros. Wonder
...Of all Sonic games, you'd say MANIA has good bosses? Come on
I think Sonic by a wide margin, especially in the early years of the franchises. One thing that separate Mario from Sonic in the 8/16-bit era was that Sonic had proper boss battles, some of them that were freakin epic and really difficult. SMB1 didn't really have boss battles, 2 did, 3 did but they were all the same mechanic, avoid the projectiles, jump on its head, until the final bowser introduced a different way to win.
I don't think that's particularly controversial, I feel like most people would say it has overall the best boss lineup in the 2D Sonic games even if some of them are duds.
Not as good as YI though so I probably shouldn't have lumped them together.
very funny cause they're both pretty damn bad but nobody seems to mind that much. The only offensive ones is when they drag, which is why everyone's bringing up Superstars, the draggiest bosses of them all. Even got a drag-on dragon final boss ffs.
Even if Sonic wins here and Mario's bosses are like 9/10 times boring (still has Yoshi's Island which are all good to great, best Mario btw), Sonic cursed itself by having such a good final boss in Doomsday Zone they kind of ruined all concepts of final bosses for Sonic going forward cause they all have to be Doomsday Zone now.
Even if Sonic wins here and Mario's bosses are like 9/10 times boring (still has Yoshi's Island which are all good to great, best Mario btw), Sonic cursed itself by having such a good final boss in Doomsday Zone they kind of ruined all concepts of final bosses for Sonic going forward cause they all have to be Doomsday Zone now.
This is an easy win for Sonic, maybe the easiest other than music. Boss fights have always been one of 2D Mario's weakest aspects. Superstars is the only 2D Sonic game I can think of that probably has worse boss fights on the whole than your typical 2D Mario game
Being a Sonic community regular, this strikes me as almost otherworldly, since Mania makes a point of dragging out its bosses (not like Superstars of course).
Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic Rush Adventure have good bosses too
2D Sonic boss battles are better on paper, but the skill ceiling is so much higher (as to be unfair) so I voted Mario.
I obviously won't list every 2D Sonic game bosses, because there are much more 2D Sonic games out there than there are 2D Mario games.. but, on that metric, they also have much worse designed bosses proportionally. All the Dimps made games and Superstars really don't do any favors for Sonic there... then there's stuff like the 8-Bit games (worse if you play them on Game Gear and not Master System)
This little fella from Sonic Chaos is particularly pathetic
Do 3D Blast and Labyrinth goes in the list? they are isometric, but still 2D games... what about SpinBall? These have some terrible bosses as well
And I don't know if I like the tradition of beating Sonic bosses in 8 Hits, honestly. Some of the Genesis games are actually rewarding if you learn how to beat them quickly before they even do anything, but when this tradition comes to the later games where bosses only let you score a hit once after a long animation, that's no fun.
This little fella from Sonic Chaos is particularly pathetic
Do 3D Blast and Labyrinth goes in the list? they are isometric, but still 2D games... what about SpinBall? These have some terrible bosses as well
And I don't know if I like the tradition of beating Sonic bosses in 8 Hits, honestly. Some of the Genesis games are actually rewarding if you learn how to beat them quickly before they even do anything, but when this tradition comes to the later games where bosses only let you score a hit once after a long animation, that's no fun.
I honestly think they are both pretty bad at that tbh. In mario they are basic to the point of dullness, and in sonic they usually dont go well with how he moves. But i think sonic is usually more inventive with them.
If you count yoshis island, then mario would win, but i dont think you should.
If you count yoshis island, then mario would win, but i dont think you should.