Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
i think the issue is whether he threatened to withhold funding from ukraine which did not happen (in this transcript)
(I know you edited I just want to address this)

Saying it needed to be an explicit quid pro quo (or extortion to be more accurate) is pushing the goalposts into more favorable territory for the Republicans.

A sitting president blatantly asking a foreign head of state to investigate into his political rivals as a "favor" is still highly inappropriate and impeachable.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Ok, now you are just lying. Biden had absolutely no chance at winning either of those primaries, give me a break. Pretending like he gaffe'd himself to a loss is just a joke.
I'm not saying he gaffed himself to death (I don't know why you got that impression from what I said), I was saying that he had no chance of winning either of those primaries because he was a bad candidate then (in terms of voter appeal and campaign management) and is still a bad candidate now who's only in the position he's in now because he's drafting off Obama.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,709


JDoVMGw.gif
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
There are too many dimensions to this chess.

Why the hell would Trump release this? I get that he's an idiot, but surely people on his team looked at it first?
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,944
National Review dudes:





Jay Nordlinger @jaynordlinger

Evidently, the White House thought the transcript would not be damning. This says a lot about the numbness in our politics today -- the rock-bottom standards. The transcript is damning as hell. "I would like you to do us a favor, though." The thing reeks of the Mob. Disgusting.

10:55 AM - Sep 25, 2019



David French @DavidAFrench

So, this is the key statement near the start of the transcript. Note the Trump says Ukraine hasn't been "reciprocal" -- which is fine for presidents to say -- yet then the rest of the transcript lays out Trump's requests. /1

10:40 AM - Sep 25, 2019





Alex Seitz-Wald @aseitzwald

How man Ds of chess are we at now with decision to release transcript?

11:34 AM - Sep 25, 2019
 

Ominym

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
I absolutely hate that we have to deal with the legal equivalent of "im not touching you"-esque rules when the intent is 100% clear.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
This is how mobs operate. Things are "technically" legal while showing clear and blatant illegality.

I don't expect change to come down from on high. The law's designed to help fuckers like this. Get mad and organize.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Ok, now you are just lying. Biden had absolutely no chance at winning either of those primaries, give me a break. Pretending like he gaffe'd himself to a loss is just a joke.
The bigger issue I have with his line of reasoning is that we need to be concerned about the political consequences of this hurting his campaign rather than the actual illicit behavior itself (if and when it gets looked at during the investigation, which it will). I'm also not sure I at all understand why its ok for the investigation to look at Barr or anyone else mentioned but Biden should be off limits for some reason.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,829
Guys he's just asking for a favor before he sends aid, and reminding him how much we do for Ukraine and how that relationship is non-reciprocal. There is no ((direct)) quid pro quo here, it's just a nothing burger smear campaign. Like George Costanza once said, " it's not a lie if you believe it". Pelosi is probably writing a sincere apology as we speak. Witch hunt!!!
 

Saoshyant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,026
Portugal
This is the sanitized version. The man incriminates himself, his Attorney General, his lawyer, scoffs at Mueller, mocks international leaders... This is the version they don't mind the world to see. God knows what else has not been made available.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,580
No quid pro quo, but LITERALLY SAYS "do me a favor" after Ukraine says it is hoping to buy more Javelins. This is probably even more clearly illegal than Watergate
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,537
Does the Biden thing have any merit? That Biden pushed Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was leading an investigation on his son's company or did whatever. There's apparently video of Biden bragging about getting him fired. However, the WaPo article says this:

"The investigation was dormant"... meaning it wasn't even being looked into by the prosecutor, or am I reading that wrong? Because if it wasn't being investigated then Trump is fuckkkkked.

It has the merit of distracting knuckleheads from a sitting president using his position to get another country to open an investigation on a political opponent, that's for sure.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
Trump could hold a gun to Moscow Mitch head, yell do what Putin told you to, all while being livestreamed and Republicans would be like 'but was the gun loaded?'.

Including Moscow Mitch himself.
 

Vyrak

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
663
I'm not saying he gaffed himself to death (I don't know why you got that impression from what I said), I was saying that he had no chance of winning either of those primaries because he was a bad candidate then (in terms of voter appeal and campaign management) and is still a bad candidate now who's only in the position he's in now because he's drafting off Obama.

Except you didn't say he had no chance of winning those primaries, unless you are implying that he has no chance of winning this one? Which makes zero sense since he is still most likely to win this one, unlike the others where he had basically no chance.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
Guys he's just asking for a favor before he sends aid, and reminding him how much we do for Ukraine and how that relationship is non-reciprocal. There is no ((direct)) quid pro quo here, it's just a nothing burger smear campaign. Like George Costanza once said, " it's not a lie if you believe it". Pelosi is probably writing a sincere apology as we speak. Witch hunt!!!
It's a colossal load of garbage, but more than enough for the true believers. It's not about facts, but about creating a narrative that makes you feel good with your political choices.

As long as it's not put out as an actual verbal contract, they can claim that they were just two buddies engaging in a casual, inexact conversation.

The real question is what will happen if nothing substantial comes out from this mess.
 

Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,406
It was intially frustrating at first when I realized why Trumpists think this exonerates him, but then it became hilarious when I realized how Trump has the same logic. Honestly Trump is so clueless it's hilarious.
 

Maquiladora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
5,190
There are too many dimensions to this chess.

Why the hell would Trump release this? I get that he's an idiot, but surely people on his team looked at it first?

Because not releasing it makes it look they they are trying to hide something. So they released a transcript that probably tones down just how bad the actual language used on the call was. But even this version still looks really bad.

Still, as we are seeing, it's not likely to change anyone's minds on the GOP side apart from possible edge cases like Romney.
 

pirata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,426
I truly think that this is the regime trying to prove without a doubt that they are completely immune from the law and from all consequences so that they can truly establish a totalitarian state. The right has already sacrificed all dignity and decency for power over us. They will not submit to the law. Be ready for anything going forward, especially if they feel the slightest bit threatened by us.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Does the Biden thing have any merit? That Biden pushed Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was leading an investigation on his son's company or did whatever. There's apparently video of Biden bragging about getting him fired. However, the WaPo article says this:

"The investigation was dormant"... meaning it wasn't even being looked into by the prosecutor, or am I reading that wrong? Because if it wasn't being investigated then Trump is fuckkkkked.

The entire Western world wanted the prosecutor gone, because he was either inept or on the take.

They were supposedly investigating the CEO of the gas company Hunter was on the board of, but didn't follow through with it, which was a large reason that US/ EU wanted him gone in the first place. It's FUD to cover up low-rent mobster bullshit
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
National Review dudes:





Jay Nordlinger @jaynordlinger

Evidently, the White House thought the transcript would not be damning. This says a lot about the numbness in our politics today -- the rock-bottom standards. The transcript is damning as hell. "I would like you to do us a favor, though." The thing reeks of the Mob. Disgusting.

10:55 AM - Sep 25, 2019



David French @DavidAFrench

So, this is the key statement near the start of the transcript. Note the Trump says Ukraine hasn't been "reciprocal" -- which is fine for presidents to say -- yet then the rest of the transcript lays out Trump's requests. /1

10:40 AM - Sep 25, 2019





Alex Seitz-Wald @aseitzwald

How man Ds of chess are we at now with decision to release transcript?

11:34 AM - Sep 25, 2019


Also remember the timing of the call. Trump is talking about how much they give them in aid and how good their economy will be shortly after he had frozen the aid bound to them. He is literally saying, it's a shame your country will go to shit without this aid, now I need something from you.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Does the Biden thing have any merit? That Biden pushed Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was leading an investigation on his son's company or did whatever. There's apparently video of Biden bragging about getting him fired. However, the WaPo article says this:

"The investigation was dormant"... meaning it wasn't even being looked into by the prosecutor, or am I reading that wrong? Because if it wasn't being investigated then Trump is fuckkkkked.
There is legitimately a gigantic corruption problem in Ukraine. The new President is planning on culling around a third of the current prosecutors (15K->10K) in an attempt at cleaning it up with higher standards, as "find guilt, pay off prosecutor" is apparently a standard norm there right now.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,829
I truly think that this is the regime trying to prove without a doubt that they are completely immune from the law and from all consequences so that they can truly establish a totalitarian state. The right has already sacrificed all dignity and decency for power over us. They will not submit to the law. Be ready for anything going forward, especially if they feel the slightest bit threatened by us.
Hate to say it but I agree
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,648
lmao does he really think this makes him look good.

He is fucked.

He knows his supporters will praise "transparency " and ignore or forgive the infraction. Fox News will sell it as a nothing burger for as long as that's what republicans and conservatives want to here. He knows it ultimately doesn't look good. He's just trying to keep his base.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
He's not clean here and figuring out how deeply he's involved is going to be critical.

You could legit end up seeing President Pelosi or Romney or something at the end of this.
I don't think Pence goes anywhere. Any official action would require buy-in from the GOP, and they're sure as hell not going to let Pelosi ascend to the presidency.

The only way Pence steps down is if some plan is enacted where Trump leaves, Pence gets to install a new Republican VP before he leaves, and then that guy becomes President. Sort of convoluted, raises all sorts of questions, the Democrats would need to agree to it (VP appointments need to be approved by the House and Senate), it'd be some crazy West Wing shit.

Personally I think the best-case scenario is Pence stays on as an incredibly damaged and compromised president, appoints someone relatively noncontroversial like Colin Powell as VP, and gets buried in the next election.