Probably not. I don't think anyone's trying to play the lawyer here and argue whether or not it breaks the site's rules.
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Whitewashing mods (rant thread) [MOD EDIT: READ OP]
- Thread starter Persephone
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Probably not. I don't think anyone's trying to play the lawyer here and argue whether or not it breaks the site's rules.
I am completely new to the modding scene. I didn't know if there was community imposed rules or guidelines. :)
But...there's a clear picture of Clem's family (Parents I mean) in game though?
The entire point of this thread is that the mod, itself, is the racist message.
Yes, and nude mods are sexist, sex mods that change the sexuality of a character is sexist, etc. etc. etc.
I know what you're arguing, I just don't think it's realistic to put any sort of social effort to expunge it. Preferences will always exist, and if you want to attack someone for what they prefer in private use, good luck man. That's thought crime territory.
Attack someone for what they do to you. Not what they do in their room. If they keep it to themselves, who gives a crap. The public availability of a simple texture swap mod like this is not problematic enough to start some sort of campaign. If you feel otherwise go ahead and start up the twitter hashtag. Let's see where that effort goes.
Man, I wish you really could customize Link like that.Meh, let people make what they want, there's even black Link mods for BotW.
Yeah most those mods are weird but not all of them are downloaded for bad intentions. Maybe someone thinks the character looks better modded. Happens a lot with Elder Scrolls games.
For better or worse, mods offer this type of freedom, and I know people here aren't asking them to be banned, but it's just something that you'll always have to expect in the future.
There's a clear difference. Attraction to different skin types? Sure fine whatever
Saying you can't stand looking at different skin types? Racist.
No, different attraction to different skin types is not racism. We can't go down that hole.
For better or worse, mods offer this type of freedom, and I know people here aren't asking them to be banned, but it's just something that you'll always have to expect in the future.
There's a clear difference. Attraction to different skin types? Sure fine whatever
Saying you can't stand looking at different skin types? Racist.
No, different attraction to different skin types is not racism. We can't go down that hole.
What effort is being advocated beyond it being called out in this thread?
Read my post again because you clearly didn't the first time. Like I said, the vast majority of people ITT have not asked for this stuff to be banned. It's just pointing attention to an issue.
Can't say I'm surprised about this kind of thing existing. At least they aren't giving the dark skinned characters bulging eyes and big red lips.
Actually, mods like that probably exist too.
Actually, mods like that probably exist too.
Everything you said is stupid. That's how racism grows. When you don't point out racism, it slowly becomes normalized. You fight it by pointing it out because it causes people to think about their actions.
Let me preface this by stating that I only read the first and most recent pages of this thread, so if a similar question has been asked, I apologize....
So my first reaction to the OP was: "Wow, that's disgusting." However, as someone who writes a decent amount of gay fanfiction and smut, I'm kind of questioning if I'm any better. Like, I take straight characters and play God with their orientations and sexuality all the time. Yes, the reason I do it is because there's almost zero queer characters in the fandoms I like to write about, and maybe that excuses it, but I'm still manipulating core elements that define who a character is to fit my selfish tastes.
I know it's not quite the same as changing a character's skin color, but I feel like it falls under a similar umbrella. I also understand that changing a character that provides diversity and representation to underrepresented people so that they fall more in line with 'white, heteronormative ideals' is kind of the other side of the coin concerning what I do. But is it really all that different?
I'd love to get some thoughts on this. I'm more so interested in hearing the opinions of people who had the same disgusted reaction to the OP as I did because I think I understand the rationale of people who don't find it objectionable well enough. Still, anyone who wants to take a shot at my question is more than welcome.
So my first reaction to the OP was: "Wow, that's disgusting." However, as someone who writes a decent amount of gay fanfiction and smut, I'm kind of questioning if I'm any better. Like, I take straight characters and play God with their orientations and sexuality all the time. Yes, the reason I do it is because there's almost zero queer characters in the fandoms I like to write about, and maybe that excuses it, but I'm still manipulating core elements that define who a character is to fit my selfish tastes.
I know it's not quite the same as changing a character's skin color, but I feel like it falls under a similar umbrella. I also understand that changing a character that provides diversity and representation to underrepresented people so that they fall more in line with 'white, heteronormative ideals' is kind of the other side of the coin concerning what I do. But is it really all that different?
I'd love to get some thoughts on this. I'm more so interested in hearing the opinions of people who had the same disgusted reaction to the OP as I did because I think I understand the rationale of people who don't find it objectionable well enough. Still, anyone who wants to take a shot at my question is more than welcome.
So disheartening that there seem to be so many people in this thread more effected by the ''effort" put into calling mods like these out than they are by the mod itself.
Boots there is a difference in the same way that there's a reason straight pride parades or a white history month don't exist.
Boots there is a difference in the same way that there's a reason straight pride parades or a white history month don't exist.
Dont see the issue. People will change what they want. It would be diff if the devs had a option to turn all char white or spmething but to me this is not a problem
IIRC Isabella isn't "black" as in traditionally black like in she's a POC. She's a pirate, as in someone who have spent so much time under the sun that her skin tanned like that.
I mean, honestly you could make a separate thread about this. Many are going to share different mindsets about it for sure though.
As for what I think of the fanfiction part you mentioned about changing things...well, maybe it's best if I didn't go there at all.
But at the end of the day you have the right to do whatever you want as a fanfiction author. It's part of why fanfiction exists in the first place. It lets people create their own headcanons and share it with others.
Let people be attracted to who they want to be attracted to. I'm fine with people not being attracted to whites, blacks, Asians, aliens, etc. It can seem a little odd, but people just have their preferences, like people prefer others with a certain hair color, eye color, and others. However, if you're not attracted to a person of the same race and refuse to even speak or interact with people of that race or make rude comments about them, then you are racist.
...I gotta admit though, changing the color of an already established character is pretty darn weird.
...I gotta admit though, changing the color of an already established character is pretty darn weird.
There's nothing inherently wrong with changing a character or anything else about a game in the abstract, and I'd say the same goes for creating fan fiction based on other works. It's the author's motives for doing so that are being questioned here.
Meh, let people make what they want, there's even black Link mods for BotW.
Okay, What? Wii u games?
Seriously, I need to know this... are there mods for XcX?
I seriously need to be Jim Kelly, Full burns, full stash, leather pants leather jacket galactic fucking samurai in XcX.
I think a big thing being conflated in this thread is "attraction" vs "sexual attraction". Having preferences for a certain shade of skin is the same as hair colour or height or any other physical trait. Saying "I'm not attracted to [race]" is very distinct from "I'm not sexually attracted to x coloured skin".
You can't control what jollies your rogers. I can see a beautiful black woman and go "boy she is attractive. but I'm not sexually attracted to her". Correct me if I'm wrong but according to some people in this thread, that's racist. (note: I am a male attracted to men, the above is simply an example)
As for the thread itself I personally think it's uncool to change the race or sexuality of an established character using mods. But at the same time I don't think you can start censoring that kind of thing either
You can't control what jollies your rogers. I can see a beautiful black woman and go "boy she is attractive. but I'm not sexually attracted to her". Correct me if I'm wrong but according to some people in this thread, that's racist. (note: I am a male attracted to men, the above is simply an example)
As for the thread itself I personally think it's uncool to change the race or sexuality of an established character using mods. But at the same time I don't think you can start censoring that kind of thing either
Nothing at the moment. Just discussing. I posted a short message explaining my thoughts when I entered the thread but i guess people wanted more replies to explain more about what i felt so i did. that post you just quoted was explaining the 'don't see the point in social policing' stance that people were inquiring and quoting me to elaborate upon. So, hope I clarified that enough.
The "issue" is the fact that racial preference still exists, and is manifesting in this way.
Let's not sugarcoat it. That is the issue. That much is clear, in the 10 pages of this thread.
Is a modder allowed to make a mod that caters to people with racial preferences? That is the big question mark in this thread.
As a frequent modder myself, it's true, especially in Dragon Age games where you can edit a character to start with. I've modded all the cast multiple times to make them look different. Liliana the most to try to get her to look like the Sacred Ashes trailer (I was so disappointed to find out that character was Liliana the whole time). When I got the PC version it was high on my things to do with mods. It's a change of scenery, I also modded the Aveline to look more rugged, and again less rugged.
I never touched the characters DA: Inquisition much though. I used a Sara and Cassandra mod just because. Viv stayed, though I think there was some mod for her that tweaked her shaders or look. She still look the same, just texture stuff, I couldn't tell the difference.
Probably this. Makeup and mask for an person from Orlesian high classed person.
I think this might take the cake for most outrageous OP in a really long time. Like, calm down OP xD.
Here's the thing: if we're totally cool with mods of fair-skinned characters into dark-skinned characters, technically speaking (and I cannot stress this enough: as long as the intentions aren't from a position of malice or hatred), there isn't really anything that wrong with doing the opposite. Same goes with making chars from gay to bi or straight.
It's the modder's choice, and you can choose to support it by getting the mod, or not support it by ignoring the mod. But the choice being there to begin with just means more options for the community and while the topic at hand CAN be a touchy one, you have to at least not automatically assume that people making fairer-skinned mods are doing it because they hate the original characters. Yeah, a handful of modders may lean that way, but you can't assume every mod who does it, actually has that mentality.
If you're somehow thinking fair-skinned mods of dark-skinned characters is going to mean no one chooses the original characters, I don't know what to call that other than sheer paranoia. Seeing stuff like the fair-skin Menat for example kind of caught my eye for a minute, but that hasn't stopped the majority from defaulting to the original skin, and yes you may have people who *do* pick the fair-skinned version but there's nothing wrong with that as long as they aren't against playing with the original darker-skin version, as just one example. And I'm in the camp of guys who definitely prefers the original Menat skin, without question.
The whole changing sexual preferences from gay to bi/straight, maybe it's a bit trickier. In a lot of those cases the modder may be of the gender that character wouldn't get with, and since this is their opportunity to have some artistic license, they're well within their right to change the character's sexual gender preference if they want to entertain that fantasy. Again, as long as the modder doesn't have malice or spite for gay/lesbian chars etc., there shouldn't be an issue.
All of that said, modders can't 100% help how the community receiving the goods are gonna perceive them, and you can't hold bigotry that results from a handful of assholes in that regard on the shoulders of the modders. That isn't fair and it doesn't point attention at the problem within those instances.
Here's the thing: if we're totally cool with mods of fair-skinned characters into dark-skinned characters, technically speaking (and I cannot stress this enough: as long as the intentions aren't from a position of malice or hatred), there isn't really anything that wrong with doing the opposite. Same goes with making chars from gay to bi or straight.
It's the modder's choice, and you can choose to support it by getting the mod, or not support it by ignoring the mod. But the choice being there to begin with just means more options for the community and while the topic at hand CAN be a touchy one, you have to at least not automatically assume that people making fairer-skinned mods are doing it because they hate the original characters. Yeah, a handful of modders may lean that way, but you can't assume every mod who does it, actually has that mentality.
If you're somehow thinking fair-skinned mods of dark-skinned characters is going to mean no one chooses the original characters, I don't know what to call that other than sheer paranoia. Seeing stuff like the fair-skin Menat for example kind of caught my eye for a minute, but that hasn't stopped the majority from defaulting to the original skin, and yes you may have people who *do* pick the fair-skinned version but there's nothing wrong with that as long as they aren't against playing with the original darker-skin version, as just one example. And I'm in the camp of guys who definitely prefers the original Menat skin, without question.
The whole changing sexual preferences from gay to bi/straight, maybe it's a bit trickier. In a lot of those cases the modder may be of the gender that character wouldn't get with, and since this is their opportunity to have some artistic license, they're well within their right to change the character's sexual gender preference if they want to entertain that fantasy. Again, as long as the modder doesn't have malice or spite for gay/lesbian chars etc., there shouldn't be an issue.
All of that said, modders can't 100% help how the community receiving the goods are gonna perceive them, and you can't hold bigotry that results from a handful of assholes in that regard on the shoulders of the modders. That isn't fair and it doesn't point attention at the problem within those instances.
Meh, let people make what they want, there's even black Link mods for BotW.
I...kinda like the hair....
It's stupid, but I just can't get that worked up over unofficial content. If they're truly that popular, that's of course disheartening for other reasons, but people can ultimately edit games however they want to make it more palatable to them, even if that entails them being racist fucks.
I think so, yes. Just doing a quick search, there's a bunch of mods that are the exact reverse, making previously white characters dark-skinned.
Geralt in Witcher 3: https://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/2404
Niko in GTAIV: https://www.gta-modding.com/area/index.php?act=view&id=330
That's the great thing about active PC modding communities. You can really play the games however you want and essentially get a character creation toolkit in many games that don't normally have them.
Oh look at that, I've fallen down the rabbit hole of Dragon Age youtube videos. That "This is War" theme makes the fan videos seem so professional. Looks like it's time for me to play through Origins again and just go through all 3. It's been so long since I modded DA Origins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHzOHp9_kPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHzOHp9_kPw
There's a difference between "I want to play as someone who looks more like me" vs. "I only fuck the white ladies."
I can see the smirk on your face coming through the text lol
Someone missed the thread about Link's BotW design yesterday.
I'm aware. Notice the only part I quoted of the other user is the part asking if it's ok to mod skin color. I never made any commentary about peoples' sexual attractions.
Wow, what a constructive contribution. You're a shining example, that you are....
....I'll leave it at that.
I did. You could cut at least 5% of that edge snark out of your comment and it might end up tasting good ;0
Seems like I may've; if there's some kind of link between the two, it's probably casual at best.
This is Isabela. She is a beautiful black lady. Of course, people did this:
Then there's Vivienne, an amazing black woman who fought her way into a position of power. So of course, this happened:
I just. I'm so angry. It's like, seriously? People are so fucking fragile that they can't handle even a HINT of non-whiteness in their games? This goes for mods that make gay characters bi. Fuck off with that shit. Friendly reminder that if you use any of these kinds of mods you're garbage bye.
I haven't played any of the Dragon Age games, but from these posted examples, I actually prefer the modded versions in both cases. For Isabela, because they got rid of that piercing; and for Vivienne, because they made her lips a bit smaller. Would I go out of my way to download these mods? No, they're just NPCs and I generally only care how my player character looks, but others may not feel the same. My point is, I don't think it's fair of you to indiscriminately label every single person who downloaded these mods as "garbage" or assume they're racist, because you cannot possibly know what everybody's reasons were for using them.
It's pretty clear from the chain of events the mods in this case had racist motivation, the only question is whether you care or not
I like the one that gives her wrinkles and makes her look older. Certain characters do digs at her age and she looks really young in vanilla. Which yeah I know magic but even the older mages still look their age for the most part. The ones that don't aren't fully human.
Eh there's a mod that gets rid of the piercing (and gives her some goddamn pants) and keep her skin color.
Real poor example. Look at reported trends in online dating sites, or dating in general. Black women, especially darker skinned black women, get overlooked all the time or are outright told they're less attractive for their skin color.
These trends aren't "just preferences," they speak to ingrained societal attitudes towards race and attraction.
Ah good point, I never thought of trying that. The beauty of mods.
Yeah it's super coincidental that all these completely independent and random "preferences" tend to run in very specific directions.
If you find an entire race unattractive? There is almost no way anyone can unequivocally say there is no member of a race they can find attractive. There are a near infinite number of physical permutations for any given race.
That's unrelated to my example. I'm saying that having that preference isn't inherently racist like people in this thread are claiming. It's a sad truth that there is a lot of bias, and change will come over time with any luck, but I think it's disingenuous to say "there's this problem, therefore these people are racist"
It's not about race, it's about skin tone. Like hair colour or height you can have a preference or not find x thing sexually arousing. Conflating skin colour with race is another thing people are constantly doing in this thread which needs to be curbed.
I can't think of someone who isn't racist that's ever said "I'm not attracted to X race" or "I will never date someone of X race".
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