Why Don't We Get More Games Like Fallout: New Vegas?

[AYZON]

IMO it makes a lot of sense for them to not let anyone else make a game with their cash cow IPs, regardless of if the game would be better.
For them as a company its not such a big factor if the game is actually considered good, as long as it sells like hot cakes and I dont think that has been an issue for Bethesda Fallout/Elder Scrolls games.

If they let other companies make games that increases the likelyhood of franchise fatigue, reduces their profits vs creating a game themselves and inevitable comparions between the main games and the other games will start, possibly holding them to higher standards than necessary to keep on making the big bucks with their IPs or lowering the perceived quality of these games even further.
Also there is this whole organisational issue where you have to support the other company properly in creating those games.

So yea it would be nice for fans of those IPs, but I dont see a good reason for them to invest in those games.

 

[Lil Bee]

Because game writing that good is hard and few Devs are capable of it. Game writing that good is also hard to get funding for, seemingly.

 

[EvaUnit787]

Some mix of greed and pride?

Like there is zero reason why Bethesda wouldn't do this when Obsidian who has already done a great job is there with them. Or that if they do it they would pick a good studio not just some random one that could mess it up.

 

[Ernest]

Even back then, games like New Vegas were very rare.

 

[Garulon]

The last 3 BGS games are widely known to be worse than NV. What are you going on about.

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They aren't' "widely known" to be worse outside the BGS "True Fans" people. I loved the shit out of NV but it's an inaccessible buggy train wreck to most

 

[Moose]

Not only full fledged games but I'd take expansions too. I'd still be buying Dawnguard/Dragonborn sized DLC in Skyrim if they kept making them.

 

[nonoriri]

Big IPs are too valuable and they don't to risk another studio creating a subpar game and damaging the reputation.

Like Sony took the TLOU P. I remake away from another internal studio because they felt like their work wasn't up to snuff compared to Naughty Dog and they didn't want to take that risk.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

They aren't' "widely known" to be worse outside the BGS "True Fans" people. I loved the shit out of NV but it's an inaccessible buggy train wreck to most

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Uh, no it's not lol. It's been like over a decade since that's been even remotely true.

 

[Grove]

Imagine what could've been if Obsidian had been given 24-36 months on FONV instead of 18 months. I know they rushed it because Skyrim and everything but most of the reasons cited why New Vegas sold less than mainline are a result of an 18 month development cycle.

Not only do I want Obsidian to get another crack at Fallout, I want other studios to get their hands on The Elder Scrolls too.

 

[kamineko]

I seriously doubt it was pride. Look, Fallout 3 could have had good writing. Writing is a relatively inexpensive aspect of a lot of projects. BGS had the money, they either didn't care about the story or didn't know the difference. If they really cared, the story in the next installment (Fallout 4) would have been better. I just don't think BGS (Todd?) cares about that.

The answer is probably boring and business-related.

 

[EraLurker24]

IIRC at the time of its release New Vegas was seen as a low effort worse version of Fallout 3, then when the public sentiment changed over the years after deep steam sales I think Bethesda got a bit jealous of the cult fascination with New Vegas over 3

Also Obsidian HAS been trying to replicate their New Vegas success, seems you can't force a great game

 

[Garulon]

Uh, no it's not lol. It's been like over a decade since that's been even remotely true.

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You're right, most people check every five years or so to see if the game they bought crashes less

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

I wish OP would've used some other example lol, most of the posts are talking about New Vegas' unique qualities instead of what OP meant to discuss; a game made by another team/studio, largely based on the most recent main entry in terms of engine and assets, as an interim title between main entries.

Even if it's not as rushed and buggy as New Vegas was, I wish more franchise would do this. Especially now since dev time for major entries in big series are getting longer and longer.

 

[FakePlasticTree]

They aren't' "widely known" to be worse outside the BGS "True Fans" people. I loved the shit out of NV but it's an inaccessible buggy train wreck to most

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This is not the year 2011, but the year 2024 where that aint true.

 

[FakePlasticTree]

Also, Atlus does this all the time

 

[Garulon]

This is not the year 2011, but the year 2024 where that aint true.

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So if I, a filthy casual hopped up on Falloutium fired up Fallout NV on my games console I'm not going to encounter any game-breaking bugs or crashes? Or insane difficulty spikes? Or missions where I can break them to the point they can't be completed?

 

[FakePlasticTree]

So if I, a filthy casual hopped up on Falloutium fired up Fallout NV on my games console I'm not going to encounter any game-breaking bugs or crashes?

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I played that shit on Xbox 360 half a decade ago and did not encounter any of those bugs, no. I encountered some bugs, sure, it's inevitable with a big RPG with as many systems that communicate with each other like New Vegas.

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

Also, Atlus does this all the time

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Any examples? I actually thought Persona 3 > Persona 4 is the closest example of this happening(though it was the same team working on both games), but they haven't seem to be doing that for a while.

RGG used to do this a lot too, though they've kinda slowed down in recent years. We still got LaD Gaiden just last year though.

 

[FakePlasticTree]

Any examples? I actually thought Persona 3 > Persona 4 is the closest example of this happening(though it was the same team working on both games), but they haven't seem to be doing that for a while.

RGG used to do this a lot too, though they've kinda slowed down in recent years. We still got LaD Gaiden just last year though.

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Persona 5 Scramble is a recent example

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

Persona 5 Scramble is a recent example

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Fair point, though I wonder if that one really counts as I think Scramble was developed in a different engine by Koei Tecmo/Omega Force. I guess it half counts? lol

 

[FakePlasticTree]

Fair point, though I wonder if that one really counts as I think Scramble was developed in a different engine by Koei Tecmo/Omega Force. I guess it half counts? lol

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Yes there is this Koei Tecmo thing about the game same as Three Houses where there are visible outlines on all the characters that make them look very low quality compared to Persona 5. But I imagine they reused a lot of assets from 5 to make it.

 

[Phendrana]

Fingers crossed this becomes more of a thing again. I'd love some faster turnaround iterative sequels. Although that's what I thought the Spider-Man games kinda were given so much stays the same between releases, and somehow Spidey 2 was ridiculously expensive. So who knows wtf it going on.

Also Obsidian should take over Fallout tbh. We shouldn't be waiting for Bethesda to be finished with Elder Scrolls to even start development of a new one, that's absurd. And Obsidian would do a better job.

 

[Henrar]

So if I, a filthy casual hopped up on Falloutium fired up Fallout NV on my games console I'm not going to encounter any game-breaking bugs or crashes? Or insane difficulty spikes? Or missions where I can break them to the point they can't be completed?

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TBH, that's every single Fallout game lol

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

Yes there is this Koei Tecmo thing about the game same as Three Houses where there are visible outlines on all the characters that make them look very low quality compared to Persona 5. But I imagine they reused a lot of assets from 5 to make it.

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Starting to get off topic, but do you mean the thing that's causing jagged lines on the character outlines? That bugs me so much on console but they're not a problem on PC, so I guess it was just an optimization issue/decision. Off off topic, I found the visual improvements from P5/P5R character models to P3R looked really good. What they've shown from SMTVV looks even better, though I have no idea if they reworked the models from the original SMTV release or if it had always looked that good.

 

[Kill3r7]

So if I, a filthy casual hopped up on Falloutium fired up Fallout NV on my games console I'm not going to encounter any game-breaking bugs or crashes? Or insane difficulty spikes? Or missions where I can break them to the point they can't be completed?

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It runs fairly well now on Xbox BC the only issue being that it's 720p. I have not had any major issues playing it on my Steam Deck but to your point Fallout 4 and 76 have way more concurrent players right now on Steam. People like the Bethesda games plenty. They might not jive with the hardcore crowd as much but they are popular with the masses.

 

[WackoWambo]

Most game studios have bad writers compared to the other prestige media we consume.

 

[Garulon]

People like the Bethesda games plenty. They might not jive with the hardcore crowd as much but they are popular with the masses.

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I've played hundreds and hundreds of hours of Bethesda titles but I don't consider myself a "hardcore fan" because I actually enjoyed all of them

 

[OneTrueJack]

Because it's expensive and time consuming. AAA development is on such dire states that even safe, iterative sequels are taking too long and are too costly. You can't just 'crank them out' anymore.

But also:

Instead of waiting potentially a decade for a new mainline Fallout game, why not open up the tech supporting Fallout 4 for other studios to tell different stories in the universe, especially if they are doing some work to modernize it for this generation of consoles?

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They already did this. That's what Fallout 76 and the TV show are for.

 

[Patapuf]

I wish OP would've used some other example lol, most of the posts are talking about New Vegas' unique qualities instead of what OP meant to discuss; a game made by another team/studio, largely based on the most recent main entry in terms of engine and assets, as an interim title between main entries.

Even if it's not as rushed and buggy as New Vegas was, I wish more franchise would do this. Especially now since dev time for major entries in big series are getting longer and longer.

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The obvious answer to this, especially at AAA scale, is that it's massively disadvantageous for the developper. They geht most of the risk and 0 benefit if the game hits.

New Vegas and Obsidian is one of the most prominent examples of that. The success didn't even get them more work

 

[Neutron]

It's basically what From Software do... Elden Ring's sheer breadth aside.

 

[7thFloor]

It's not a common thing in general is it

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

The obvious answer to this, especially at AAA scale, is that it's massively disadvantageous for the developper. They geht most of the risk and 0 benefit if the game hits.

New Vegas and Obsidian is one of the most prominent examples of that. The success didn't even get them more work

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But that's the case with licensed/outsourced work, big studios have multiple dev teams. For example Assassin's Creed was basically doing this for a while, hence why they could do annual releases. Something like that on a more manageable scale, because fuck Ubisoft.

 

[Patapuf]

But that's the case with licensed/outsourced work, big studios have multiple dev teams. For example Assassin's Creed was basically doing this for a while, hence why they could do annual releases. Something like that on a more manageable scale, because fuck Ubisoft.

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Ubisoft is all inhouse devs.

Obsidian was a contracted external Studio.

Publishers, even big ones Like EA or Ubi, typically only the multiple internal Studio thing for huge properties Like COD or Fifa

 

[Fright Zone]

You mean like Miles Morales?

I really wish I'd played New Vegas, but I spent 130 hours on FO3 and was burnt out on it.
Not sure if it would be worth playing now, is there any way to play it on PS5?

 

[OneTrueJack]

The obvious answer to this, especially at AAA scale, is that it's massively disadvantageous for the developper. They geht most of the risk and 0 benefit if the game hits.

New Vegas and Obsidian is one of the most prominent examples of that. The success didn't even get them more work

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Outer Worlds really speaks to that. For years die-hard fans touted New Vegas as being secretly the best Fallout game. So you'd think that if they just made New Vegas again, but with their own IP and creative control, then it would be a big hit for them.

Except they did make that game and no one seemed to care.

 

[Patitoloco]

Outer Worlds really speaks to that. For years die-hard fans touted New Vegas as being secretly the best Fallout game. So you'd think that if they just made New Vegas again, but with their own IP and creative control, then it would be a big hit for them.

Except they did make that game and no one seemed to care.

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I mean, it sold more than 5M copies (which for a new IP is quite good) and a sequel was greenlighted pretty much as soon as it released, so saying no one cared about The Outer Worlds is quite crazy.

Could have been better, no doubt about that though.

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

Ubisoft is all inhouse devs.

Obsidian was a contracted external Studio.

Publishers, even big ones Like EA or Ubi, typically only the multiple internal Studio thing for huge properties Like COD or Fifa

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I know, that's what I meant though. I agree with your previous point in cases like New Vegas. But it doesn't have to be contract/licensed work, it can be done the way Ubisoft does it.

 

[Kill3r7]

Outer Worlds really speaks to that. For years die-hard fans touted New Vegas as being secretly the best Fallout game. So you'd think that if they just made New Vegas again, but with their own IP and creative control, then it would be a big hit for them.

Except they did make that game and no one seemed to care.

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I think folks expected a FONV game on a shoestring budget ignoring all of the assets and help BGS gave Obsidian in FONV. Maybe the sequel will deliver on that promise.

 

[OneTrueJack]

I mean, it sold more than 5M copies (which for a new IP is quite good) and a sequel was greenlighted pretty much as soon as it released, so saying no one cared about The Outer Worlds is quite crazy.

Could have been better, no doubt about that though.

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That's crazy to me because I feel like no one has talked about it since release.

 

[Leancarp900]

The reason is because most publishers like having full control of their franchises.

 

[Leancarp900]

I'm not suggesting hatred at all. I'm suggesting ego.

Again, it's been documented that BGS outrighted denied a pitch for a NV style game in the Elder Scrolls universe by Obsidian.

Imagine that. Elder Scrolls fans wouldn't have to wait over FIFTEEN years for a new single player title. It's all self inflicted. BGS wants to maintain absolute control over the main fallout and elder scrolls games. And because of this, everyone loses, except BGS.

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The idea that New Vegas was better received at the time than FO3 or Skyrim (the Bethesda games released around the same time) is revisionism. In 2010 NV barely received any GOTY nominations, let alone awards.

 

[Patapuf]

Outer Worlds really speaks to that. For years die-hard fans touted New Vegas as being secretly the best Fallout game. So you'd think that if they just made New Vegas again, but with their own IP and creative control, then it would be a big hit for them.

Except they did make that game and no one seemed to care.

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I'd bet a lot of money that Obsidian earned a lot more money from outer worlds than new Vegas despite the latter selling way more

 

[OneTrueJack]

I'd bet a lot of money that Obsidian earned a lot more money from outer worlds than new Vegas despite the latter selling way more

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Oh, probably. I've already been informed that the game apparently sold well despite seeming to leave no cultural impression.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

You're right, most people check every five years or so to see if the game they bought crashes less

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Look, it's been a literal decade since the game has been patched. It's been relatively stable (for a Fallout game) for far longer than it hasn't been. I don't think that warrants sarcasm, lol.

 

[Garulon]

Idk why you're being so sarcastic about it, it's literally been a decade. It's fine to just acknowledge that you had the wrong impression about something.

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Where's the sarcasm? If it's fine to pretend that a game being old stops it being inaccessible and buggy somehow then it's also fine to pretend the people turned off by it back then still give a shit right?

 

[Kongroo]

Even back then, games like New Vegas were very rare.

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The idea that New Vegas was better received at the time than FO3 or Skyrim (the Bethesda games released around the same time) is revisionism. In 2010 NV barely received any GOTY nominations, let alone awards.

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I agree. It was a game made under extreme duress and crunch. And yet it was still seen as contemporary to skyrim and fo3. That's the real context.

Yes, the NV love didn't come till a few years later but that doesn't change the fact that it was an extraordinary effort. Obsidian did not have all the luxuries in the world that BGS have.