That's the rub. They don't believe they have to be emotionally equipped or have maturity of any kind for a relationship. They simply believe a woman is something they're owed as men.
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Why incels are a 'real and present threat' for Canadians
- Thread starter UnpopularBlargh
- Start date
Yep. Plenty of sexually frustrated guys who don't literally commit mass murder as a result.
Plenty of people with guns don't commit mass murder either. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce it.
Incels don't believe in improving themselves. They reinforce the idea that it's all down to looks and they're too ugly for women, who are too superficial, as the determining factor. They refuse to accept personality and social skills as a factor because then they'd have some responsibility for their anger and bitterness. As a result some of their communities won't even let you talk about trying to improve those things.
The goalpost constantly moves though. Sex with sex workers doesn't count. Sex with women who aren't virgins doesn't count. The only thing that really counts is sex with a woman they can completely control. The root is misogyny, not an unfulfilled sex drive or a lack of being wanted.
Nah man pretty sure they've got stuff like statusmaxxing/looksmaxxing/gymmaxxing and it's pretty much in the name where you hit the gym, try to get plastic surgery and ish like that. Although the core message is that looks is the most important yeah
These incels are basically western ISIS supporters . Rabidly misogynistic guys who were promised the world on a silver platter, and when that doesn't happen they lash out and try to find a scapegoat. Whether it's jews or black people or women or muslims. No matter the society or religion, these kinds of people always seem to pop up.
I mean there should definitely be a reduction in sexually frustrated guys as well. Education about sex ed, relationships, etc. would go a long long way.
Well put. There's a reason why incel communities overlap with pedophiles so often. These are people who want objects they can abuse without being questioned or challenged at any level. The women they want are ones they can categorize as dumber or weaker than themselves so they can always have authority or just straight up children who they can manipulate to their own fucked up ideal. They act like they're pathetic and put upon but they want absolute control over humans they see as objects. Hell, that same mentality is what makes them convinced they have the right to kill people for their own sense of comfort as well.
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I can personally attest to this line of thinking. While it would still count (to me) as losing virginity, it would speak to the core issue of seeing sex as a monetary transaction implying that I am not good enough to charm another person's pants off. Furthermore, the societal norms have established that the first time has to be "special" and despite knowing it has very little bearing on who someone eventually ends up with in the long run, it is so deeply etched to some people's psyche (like myself) that it reinforces the idea of lack of self worth and pity (paid) sex. This unfortunately paints sex workers in a very demeaning light.
Thankfully most sane individuals who are not surrounded by toxic people and/or circumstance eventually either acknowledge it as a state of existence that through self improvement, time, actually going out and meeting people and managing expectations, one day may overcome or simply acknowledge it and move on with their lives (and some of them may post memes about loneliness from time to time) learning to judge themselves against more positive aspirations.
Meanwhile, the conservative voter base is convinced that Syrian refugees are the cause of all violent crime in, and are the greatest threat to Canada.
That said, I do think that sexual frustration can be the seed from which such a mindset initially sprouts from... or at the very least can make someone susceptible to being indoctrinated by others into such an incel mindset.
A bit of a chicken/egg problem as to which one comes first, but I don't think there's a universal right answer... it probably varies from individual to individual. Ultimately though, misogyny is definitely learned... so I personally lean towards sexual frustration as probably being the egg more often than not.
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You're not wrong. The reason young men become incels and why young Muslim men join ISIS does have a huge crossover.
Feel of belonging. Easy answer to why their life isn't what they wanted/expected. Women and feminism are seen as the enemy to destroy and control.
That article tries to paint these as opposites, but let's be real. How many radical Islamic terrorists aren't incels? Nobody's blowing themselves up when they have a fulfilling relationship to come home to. Sexual frustration is a hell of a drug.
The goalpost hasn't moved. Virginity is lost once you've had sexual relations with another human being with no strings attached. It's not just about the act of having sex and has never been.
The same way you can't claim having a friendship if you pay him/her to hang out with you.
26 and a virgin in everyway. so same here. Don't see why they get so much anger. I'm a virgin because I'm too lazy to go out and look, I'd rather play video games after work.
even your definition is rife with issues and vagueness. this whole idea of playing the virgin game and cheating at the virgin game is based on the idea that sex is not sex unless it's idealized under some kind of preset conditions. you can't claim to have a friendship if you pay for it ok, but you can't claim to have lost your virginity if you've paid for sex? Again, all these rules and conditions, just to prove to some other man that you're also a man. No wonder incels are toxic, it's toxicity all the way down.
We challenge the concepts of masculinity, virginity and the "need" to get laid.
If MGTOWs are supposed to be men who don't pursue relationships, how dangerous are they in comparison? How hostile are they to womens rights? Like, with evidence?
Migtows would rather espouse the belief of "going their own way" but still preoccupy their time by bitching about the same thing they said they've disavowed. In the end, it's all rooted from the same rotten tree.
Unlike the term incel, MGTOW originated from actual misogynistic turdburglars, fun fact.
There's a guy in my math class, wears his MAGA hat and sits right in the front. Fits the standard bill for an incel at face value. And I won't lie, it scares me that there is someone like that on my campus with an already easy supply of firearms. I want to ask the school to at least ban MAGA merchandise on campus at least, it's very distracting and distressing.
My argument on virginity has as much to do with incels as my friendship comment. I don't know where exactly you're seeing "all these rules and conditions" when there's just one, which you can't seem to be able to accept. That's on you, sadly.
Virginity has never been simply about the act of having sex, as I said, so I'm really not sure why you keep trying to boil it down to that.
I mean, this is how normal people see it, it's not an incel thing at all.
I'm thinking of an improvement to the situation, not stating the status quo, to deal with this new InCel issue. And actually virginity when I was growing up was all about the act of having sex, so I dunno what you're talking about, like you're the only generation that ever lived, lol. Maybe you have your own personal definitions, but realize yours isn't the only point of view.
CBC's Fifth Estate had a piece about incels last night. The Lone Wolf
They talked with one of them who made a music video that praised Alek Minassian, the Toronto van mass murderer. The reporter apparently talked with the guy for 3 hours and got him to change his views about the toxic social media he was frequenting. He deleted his music video and is no longer part of that incel scene.
Just talking to these guys and getting them away from that toxic atmosphere makes a difference. Shutting down these terrible social media sites should be a priority.
They talked with one of them who made a music video that praised Alek Minassian, the Toronto van mass murderer. The reporter apparently talked with the guy for 3 hours and got him to change his views about the toxic social media he was frequenting. He deleted his music video and is no longer part of that incel scene.
Just talking to these guys and getting them away from that toxic atmosphere makes a difference. Shutting down these terrible social media sites should be a priority.
My point is that incels aren't actually concerned with virginity in this sense, and instead are motivated by a hatred of women. Hence my comment about why sex with women who have had multiple partners doesn't count. Sex with women who are too independent or "westernized" doesn't count either. They don't want a romantic and sexual partner. They want a sexual object they can control.
Nope once you have sex with a human that's it you lost your virginity byeeee. Saying it doesn't count because it was a prostitute is dumb as saying that you're still a virgin because you're a born again Christian. Google I lost my virginity to a prostitute and see alll the hits will come up haha. So like you always see those stories when girls sell their virginity for millions. Guess they can keep doing because they still a virgin
It´s basically a mishmash of two core problems, a lot of lonely people and a lot of toxic garbage online that leads to radicalization.
First step should be deplatforming. Crack down on these incel sites and forums. There is no reason why any of those should exist. If there is less exposure to this kind of ideology there will be less people affected.
Second step is to help people that have problems and mental health issues. There needs to be a far bigger focus on metal health in general.
First step should be deplatforming. Crack down on these incel sites and forums. There is no reason why any of those should exist. If there is less exposure to this kind of ideology there will be less people affected.
Second step is to help people that have problems and mental health issues. There needs to be a far bigger focus on metal health in general.
There is a pretty big difference between dangerous incels who have been radicalized and intend harm towards innocents vs socially inept males who are lonely, depressed and feel let down by society. The latter can be very productive citizens if they can find someone to accept them or get the therapy they need.
Of course its sarcasm. Yea, I bet the woman whos been posting on this website for 1000 posts thinks the government should be handing out brides. Get a grip my dog.
And yet looking at the state of the US government currently, I can totally see them trying to pull off something this stupid.
Incels are weird because they are like they are like "Hey, wanna see a perfect example of why toxic masculinity is bad " not to say the other myriad of examples and problems caused by toxic masculinity and misogyny aren't bad, but they are just so " This, everything about this, everything about this is why things are bad this is the result of those bad things given form " . And ontop of all of that there are a bunch of them who are basically an organized terrorist group fueled by those previous problems. Its scary, and its really scary and somewhat fascinating that we might be literally looking at the end result of misogyny and toxic masculinity .
And there are times where normal people complain about relationship issues, or our society in regards to that, but its usually left at that. But with incels, it becomes very clear its kind of not about any of that, or all of that is used as an excuse for the super misogyny.
Like Pau said, like it just seems like they want this weird ideal woman they could control rather than trying to find companionship. And as a guy who grew up in a house whole with a controlling abusive father... I dunno I find it hard to feel sorry for these guys. They just seem like gigantic assholes, who are unfortunately...are now terrorists
And there are times where normal people complain about relationship issues, or our society in regards to that, but its usually left at that. But with incels, it becomes very clear its kind of not about any of that, or all of that is used as an excuse for the super misogyny.
Like Pau said, like it just seems like they want this weird ideal woman they could control rather than trying to find companionship. And as a guy who grew up in a house whole with a controlling abusive father... I dunno I find it hard to feel sorry for these guys. They just seem like gigantic assholes, who are unfortunately...are now terrorists
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Incel forums do need to be purged. There have been sexually frustrated men through out the ages, and I'm sure some lashed out before, but there has never been a movement like this. You have incels actively telling other incels to kill themselves and others, berating people with low self worth to begin with. That should be the first step.
I also think media and advertising is causing some issues. I'm no fan of Bill Maher, but broken clock and all that. He had a good comment where if you are an incel, not getting sex and thinking that's part of the world you don't understand, and you look around, everywhere you see is sex. You'd be thinking everyone is fucking everyone but you constantly looking at media and advertising.
Been saying this for ages. These fuckers are far more active and dangerous to Western society than any number of Islamic extremists. They need to be declared terrorists and hunted down by security services.