because the media and government pegged him as a bad guy, therefor most of the US views him that way. Its a load of crap though like you said OP
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Why isnt Snowden viewed as a hero
- Thread starter fireflame
- Start date
He risked his butt to release info on spying, great.
But let's say hypothetically that the U.S. "system" gets destroyed. It's not like this place just becomes a magical spying-free paradise after that. Other governments will swoop in and take over the infrastructure and it will be back to square one, same shit different day. Maybe even worse. And nobody has recommended a better place to stay, that's also easy to immigrate to.
But let's say hypothetically that the U.S. "system" gets destroyed. It's not like this place just becomes a magical spying-free paradise after that. Other governments will swoop in and take over the infrastructure and it will be back to square one, same shit different day. Maybe even worse. And nobody has recommended a better place to stay, that's also easy to immigrate to.
This is saddening. Half the people in this thread have preconceived notions of what went down and not-a-one cares enough to do even the smallest amount of fact-checking. Thanks for trying tho, Pixel.
I know you already know the answer to this, lol... but yep, the latter.
Jesus Christ...
Right?
Self-preservation is cowardice, apparently.
All of the above is pure conjecture (at best) with zero evidence. Literally none.
Believing that strongly in things that have not a shred of evidence is basically like believing in religion or conspiracy theories.
Are you confusing him with Assange, because that's sheer nonsense.
I thought it was because the majority of documents he stole and leaked had nothing to do with what people want to think of him as a hero for.
Snowden's Twitter was doing strait agitprop shit during the election that pretty much perfectly lined up with what the Russian troll farms were doing. I think it is probably more of a case of him being a dupe than a mastermind but it's not a great look in hindsight.
This thread is one of the most alarming things I've ever seen on this forum.
It really alarms me that people are so angry at Snowden for what he has done, but god forbid being angry at the US government spying on every citizen and its allies in the most appalling and illegal manner. It demonstrates a completely unprincipled stance when it comes to human rights, liberty, and freedom.
The US government and media propaganda train immediately shifted the conversation to Snowden himself, when in fact his actions are what really matter, see below:
This is exactly correct. Whatever sensitive data Snowden released is temporary collateral damage compared to the macro, long terms, and lasting effects of illegal and unconstitutional actions by the US government which should, in my view, appal any critical or logically thinking individual. But the US government and media has shifted the conversation to the individual himself.
It really alarms me that people are so angry at Snowden for what he has done, but god forbid being angry at the US government spying on every citizen and its allies in the most appalling and illegal manner. It demonstrates a completely unprincipled stance when it comes to human rights, liberty, and freedom.
Tell you what, unless Putin hands him over to the USA, then I will believe he isnt an agent of the FSB and Russia. For now it is what it is.
You getting mad about it is Putin reaching his objective in regards to Snowden.
So it was just a big coincidence that Snowden just happened to be staying at the Russian consulate in China before then getting stuck in Russia soon after?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e107edf9897_story.html?utm_term=.d70482d7c34c
Last edited:
Snowden's whole "A Choice Between Donald Trump and Goldman Sachs" thing.
A whole bunch of people including some liberals were arguing the same shit at the time. This is pure hindsight.
This. I'm still uncomfortable to this day about her corporate ties.
Well, as I said, pure hindsight. That view was way more accepted back then too. It was "here's my hot take, but Hillary is going to win anyways so it doesnt matter."
It's not pure hindsight!! It was blatant crap then, and it's the type of stuff that was deliberately being played up and amplified at the time because it would encourage people to see it as a "both sides are just as bad" situation.
The man was chased out of the country for exposing the encumbent party's illegal spying on the American people. You gotta be shitting me.
It does this fall under the same "ignore bad stuff when Dems do it" umbrella that Obama's war crimes do?
He was a Ron Paul stan who had no problem with the program under Bush and defended government surveillance programs at the time, but freaked out after Obama was elected. And he ran to Russia listening to advice from people like Greenwald/Assange.
What exactly are you responding to in my post? It seems like you are just proving the point I just made that the US propaganda machine has shifted the conversation to one man's 'criminal' actions. Russian connections are just conjecture and irrelevant when discussing the absolutely positive effects of what Snowden revealed and the completely disgusting and illegal actions of the US government.
Again, people are so caught up in his personal opinions that they cannot see any good in what Snowden has done. Why don't we discuss what Snowden did (prove the US' heinous crimes) versus what the US government did (heinous crimes) instead of just attacking Snowden for what he's said or where he happens to be situated (I don't get how being in Russia somehow completely makes him a Russian stooge and makes right the actions of the US govenrment).
Why aren't people mad that he was forced to flee or of the governments crimes? No, just be mad at someone who was trying to protect the liberty and freedoms of US citizens (and allies).
He's not wrong. She's had a disturbing amount of connections with Wall Street.
We just found out
Goldman Sachs control moderate democrat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Donald trump.
A lot of people will never like him because he exposed the fact that even Obama was a piece of shit. And a lot of people will like him for exactly that reason. The act of exposing what the government was doing was definitely heroic.
He wasn't wrong.
If he had only released information on direct spying on American civilians and then stood for it, he would have been viewed in a much more positive light.
But he didn't just do that. He data dumped a huge amount of operational knowledge that is perfectly legal and normal tradecraft. Then he ran. It should not be surprising (or the work of some propaganda campaign) that he would not be viewed positively in America.
But he didn't just do that. He data dumped a huge amount of operational knowledge that is perfectly legal and normal tradecraft. Then he ran. It should not be surprising (or the work of some propaganda campaign) that he would not be viewed positively in America.
Yup, this thread is a sobering reminder that once Trump Republicanism is purged, we still have the long term problem of irrational nationalism and military industrial complex. This might be the issues that millennials and Gen X cling on too as incoming generations are like wtf you old mills stop voting.
So don't ever try to change something because nothing will change and hey this not literally the worst place in the world right now anyway.
That's dark.
Gen z is looking more conservative, so I somewhat doubt it.
Nationalism is built into the foundations of most extant states in the West. It's not going away anytime soon because states find it incredibly useful.
I'm a need a source for that Gen Z statement. If you're talking about Incels and 4Chan edgelords than yeah there are a ton but there are a ton of liberal minority groups too.
Even IF you accept the idea that he had to flee to Russia (he would've had a much better plan were this not the case.), are you so naive as to think he hasn't told Russian intelligence some useful information to remain alive? So he either betrayed the country with the leaks, or betrayed the country afterwards. He's willing to risk his freedom as you say, but won't die rather than give up vital US intelligence, therefore martyring him further?
This is a pretty well noticed phenomenon I think. Here's the first example I found.
https://www.marketingweek.com/2016/...m-millennial-is-useless/#.V9kYPw2SASg.twitter
Anyway, let's flip this on its head. Why do you assume they would be better? Blind Whiggishness?
Are you confusing him with manong and wikileak?
He hamded his information to i.ternational reapected news service that is still shifting and release stiff to this day
He didn't flee to Russia. Doing something the state doesn't like shouldn't be considered a bad thing in itself. Also you're acting like it's so strange someone isn't up for dying. Give me a break.
If you want to die for the American state, that's your perogative I guess. I'm not expecting anyone else to or seeing anyone who does as a martyr.
This is ignoring the fact it's not even naive to think they would leave him alive. Similar situations happened a million times in history.
Julian Assange and WikiLeaks was his travel agency. They arranged travel. Even bought a bunch of fake tickets to throw the US off. That alone stinks considering WL is Russian Intelligence. Then the stay at the consulate and other stuff. Hardly farfetched that he was never meant to leave Moscow.
He did the right thing for the wrong reasons is the nicest way I can put it.
Okay so first off your own source (Which has also been sourced by a Forbes fuckin' contributer lol) lists 2000 UK adult responders... In an article which defines Gen Z as post 2001 and was written in 2016.
And my information comes from stuff like this:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59ea34f7e4b034105edd4e32
So socially liberal and 'fiscally conservative' which lines up with my anecdotal experience too.
Edit: Heres another source that packages some of the diversity/gender questions into more digestible graphs which was also sourced in the HP article: https://www.jwtintelligence.com/201...gender-binaries-in-new-innovation-group-data/
Yo Cocaloch your source is actually pretty fucking garbage after researching into what 'The Gild' actually is, mate.
http://afterthemillennials.com/why-generation-z-is-not-more-conservative/
http://afterthemillennials.com/why-generation-z-is-not-more-conservative/
He should have waited for a Republican President to expose illegal, un-transparent spying systems in the United States.
Like Ellsberg, he exposed how both parties were the creators and proponents of this undemocratic, secret spying apparatus.
I'm not super interested in looking into this, as I said I used the first source that came up.
Ironically your own source in that first post also cites it.
Edit: This doesn't seem to have a positive claim either. Maybe that source sucks, I haven't looked into the methodology because I'm not really that interested. But do you have any positive sources for your thoughts that Gen Z is more left leaning? As it is, all you've done is torpedo any sort of claim other than it seems to be around the same position, slightly better, as millennials on gendered issues and significantly to their right on fiscal matters.
I'm certainly not seeing anything on gen z being broadly to the left of millennials based on your sources (even though you've discounted one of your own). As far as I can tell that's still just Whiggery from you. It'd be particularly interesting if we corrected for demographic differences, but there seems to be a pretty poor data set at the moment.
Last edited:
There more media propaganda trains than just American government's. Also Snowden's actions are still what is germane here, it's just the totality of his actions that we need to consider.
Hindsight is allowing new information to change your pre-existing stance.
Right... So still waiting on that that source that Gen Z is more conservative/socially regressive.
And yeah because both are unsourced contributer articles. One key difference would be that there are actually sources in the HP link I referenced, ones that lead to actual surveys or results. For example, click on the gay marriage statistic and you get a PDF of the survey conducted on Generation Z (16 - 19) with a +/- 3.08 margin or error in a sample of 1,015. Their methodology is also included. That one concluded that this generation is "highly progressive" in social issues.
Edit: Should mention 2014 BTW.
The HP article also includes at least one source you dislike and one slide room page. Again, I'm not super interested in this topic past having a general interest in challenging whiggery.
Seems that the data is poor. I'm willing to accept they might not be significantly to Millennial's right. Certainly I don't have data off the top of my head to demonstrate that. Are you willing to accept that you don't seem to have much of a source basis for asserting they are to the left? Especially enough to reject things like Nationalism?
Just read through that one, the methodology was not included so I don't know why you said it was, and it wasn't comparative so that's not super useful. It needs to be comparative to get at the point.
Edit: Gave all this another read
The ones under "are they liberal" don't lead to actual studies. Seems like we're on the same basis here because the data isn't very good.
Last edited:
Snowden was a mouthpiece for Russia's disinformation campaign during the 2016 election. He was constantly pushing the "but her emails!" talking point.
The dude's a troll who's hiding behind Putin.
The dude's a troll who's hiding behind Putin.
"Only a coward would flee the wrath of his state". Do you hear what you are saying? Jesus christ.
Because the positive effects don't really seem so positive when it's actually being done for nefarious reasons. Stealing the dirty laundry of democratic nation to turn around and help push propaganda and hide with the support of an even worse autocratic, corrupt, and human rights stifling nation isn't winning him many brownie points.