Thanks for that, not sure how you're supposed to fix that with the time scales we're working with. And it's got to be very easy for bad actors to come in and make things even worse.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Why Some Ethnic Groups Wont Want The Vaccine
- Thread starter Deleted member 9306
- Start date
Thanks for that, not sure how you're supposed to fix that with the time scales we're working with. And it's got to be very easy for bad actors to come in and make things even worse.
I understand and fully sympathize with the implicit racism in medical science, and how it leads to mass skepticism among the Black community. At the same time, this skepticism has led to a rise of harmful movements, like Hoteps, that need to be addressed wherever possible. The more we allow pseudoscience and conspiracy theories to take hold in the USA, ultimately the more everyone ends up suffering.
Megan Thee Fury et al.
Unequal treatment (Published 2007)
Harriet Washington investigates the exploitation of African-Americans in medical research.www.nytimes.com
You all can do well to spend some time in this book. It should be considered required reading for those who want to know more about what has happened to people of color in the past AND present. This will provide the requisite context for the real, on-going fears in the community regarding healthcare and unequal care for people of color. Tweets are nice, but it doesn't compare with 522 pages of straight, researched talk. Unequal treatment from healthcare professionals is not imagined; it ls real, demonstrable, measurable, and has result in the deaths and injuries of countless people of color.
Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present: Washington, Harriet A.: 9780767915472: Amazon.com: Books
Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present [Washington, Harriet A.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times...www.amazon.com
You can also find it in your local library.
Absolutely agree. I read this in undergrad for a race and medicine course. It's an emotionally hard read but essential to understanding the apprehension.
Is there a reason to believe that poor neighborhoods will be getting the same exact treatment when the vaccines roll out? So not exactly a conspiracy theory, lol. You're acting as if this is some imaginary shit people made up because they are bored, a opposed to *rimshot* medical aparthied(c)
If Gary, Indiana gets the same vaccine rollout as Beverly Hills, CA I will gladly eat crow.
Of course that poster did. There's no more long-standing a tradition than calling black people as a collective group "dumb".
And please save the eventual "I'm black/a POC" excuse. It's a trash fucking statement regardless of your race.
OP
OP
Definitely, it's going to be tough. The twitter person I quoted in the OP had a good idea though; if you have Black leaders, academics, elites, etc. taking the vaccine then other Black people would be less hesitant. Like, if the Carters (Beyonce and Jay Z), the Obamas (maybe not so much Barrack anymore, but definately Michelle lol) and other prominent people took it others might not be scared of doing so anymore.
Unfortunately, as we saw in the Lelita Wright thread, some of these people are already too far gone...
After Tuskegee I can't blame any black person that doesn't trust doctors especially for early/experimental treatment.
Outreach is definitely essential and as the tweets mentioned if the medical system doesn't work to improve then it could be even worse next pandemic.
Outreach is definitely essential and as the tweets mentioned if the medical system doesn't work to improve then it could be even worse next pandemic.
Where's the conspiracy in the OP? The "doctors are going to do the ole' vaccine switcheroo!" is some shit you made up in your own post; I'm not talking about that. The OP is about the feelings of Black Americans that could lead to conspiratorial thinking, and how it's imperative that folks begin breaking through that mentality ASAP it so it doesn't negatively impact Black folks actually going and getting their vaccines. I'm not sure what's dumb about that like you said; it sounds extremely proactive, important, and smart??
Threadmark 2! He's dropping facts!
Stories like this are where the mistrust comes from. Just one example of so very many.
www.npr.org
www.npr.org
My father is an ER physician. He could go on all day with stories about how he saw his white counterparts treating black patients differently in real fuckin time.
The point isn't that the vaccine here is unsafe; it's that a long-established and deep-seeded mistrust for the healthcare system due to decades of abuse and poorly delivered care may impact people's decision-making with regard to getting said vaccine. To their detriment.
Hell, quite a few surgical techniques were perfected on slaves because they couldn't say no. Including the hysterectomy, as I recall. Perfected by white doctors on black bodies who were awake and alive for the procedures. And again, pain medications were unnecessary because lol slaves.
N.C. Considers Paying Forced Sterilization Victims
Barely 40 years ago, more than half of U.S. states had eugenics laws that made it legal for states to sterilize people against their will. North Carolina is now considering compensating those victims. On Wednesday, a state panel heard from some who were mostly poor, uneducated — and often just...
www.npr.org
A Brutal Chapter In North Carolina's Eugenics Past
One county sterilized more people than any other, partially because the head of welfare believed it was a good option for women at a time when abortion was illegal and the birth control pill didn't yet exist. But in the context of an ugly eugenics campaign, serious questions remain over whether...
www.npr.org
My father is an ER physician. He could go on all day with stories about how he saw his white counterparts treating black patients differently in real fuckin time.
The point isn't that the vaccine here is unsafe; it's that a long-established and deep-seeded mistrust for the healthcare system due to decades of abuse and poorly delivered care may impact people's decision-making with regard to getting said vaccine. To their detriment.
If you can make time for any portion of the book I linked (threadmarked), you'll see just how deep the rabbit hole of experimentation on people of color goes. That was just one of thousands of instances. Think how researchers treat lab rats; but with...you know...actual humans instead of lab rats. Surgeries where pain medications were purposefully left out, risky medical trials testing being offered in poor communities, intentionally poor care from birth to death.
Hell, quite a few surgical techniques were perfected on slaves because they couldn't say no. Including the hysterectomy, as I recall. Perfected by white doctors on black bodies who were awake and alive for the procedures. And again, pain medications were unnecessary because lol slaves.
Last edited:
There are mountains of documented evidence that black people are given greatly inferior treatment by all sorts of medical professionals in all sorts of scenarios.
You realise basically the main reason we haven't globally eradicated polio is because the CIA set up a fake vaccination drive in Pakistan and now there is great mistrust of doctors and vaccines?
There are a lot of people with extremely valid reasons for not trusting doctors.
Do you not realize that black people literally get lesser medications/treatments for the same conditions?
None of the vaccines are from the US government actually.
I completely understand that people have trust issues and have had bad experiences with doctors and nurses before.
But if you don't get the vaccine, your likelihood of catching or dying from covid is exponentially higher. So people need to get the vaccine.
Distrust in government and medical institutions goes beyond the black community, but for all disenfranchised minorities. This isn't surprising to people that has lived and grown up in these situations.
Any denial of this phenomenon is rooted in an extremely privileged worldview.
Any denial of this phenomenon is rooted in an extremely privileged worldview.
So the medical system is racist but non white people don't have any reason to be paranoid?
Neither the MD nor anyone here said anything about fake vaccines. The issue here is some communities' (justifiable) lack of trust in the medical community delaying uptake of the vaccine. And if you think it's, "the dumbest thing (you've) heard this week" or don't even understand the crux of the matter, I don't know what you believe you're adding to the thread.
The lady in the OP is literally saying that she is hearing some people say they are concerned about the vaccine harming them, because white people made it and white people 'don't care about us'.
That concept literally only works if either..
1. Walgreens workers are secretly giving black people different injections.
2. The vaccine has some secret scifi ingredient to detect when it is in black people.
or
3. The white scientists hate black people so much that they made a vaccine that hurts everyone including white people, if it means some black people will get hurt.
None of these scenarios are rational and I'm not going to tolerate any sort of anti-vax theories.
you say this as though it's ridiculous instead of historical
(not that I distrust the covid vaccine in any way or endorse distrust of it)
It's not so much disinformation but actual lived experience and history. People of color are treated worse in our healthcare system all the time. It's easy to see why they would be skeptical.
You're not going to be able to fix 300 years of distrust, medical or otherwise, with 6 months of PR campaigns. This is really just American racism coming home to roost. Actions have consequences, and we constantly live in the shadow of actions performed centuries ago. There was progress made on that distrust, from time to time, but never a full accounting.
Which is why I would like to see universal economic aid, on top of vax. People might say no to the vax but they'll say yes to money in their pocket and we've seen that COVID hits the poor harder than it does the rich due to financial instability, lack of healthcare, etc.
Which is why I would like to see universal economic aid, on top of vax. People might say no to the vax but they'll say yes to money in their pocket and we've seen that COVID hits the poor harder than it does the rich due to financial instability, lack of healthcare, etc.
You forgot a scenario:
They didn't actually make sure it was safe on black people.
Confidence coming from people that look like them. Vaccinations provided by people that look like them (or otherwise that they can trust implicitly). Low cost or free.
And with Donald Trump's name and likeness as far away from any of this as possible. His contant attempt to try to associate vaccines with his efforts as President will hurt everyone. Though I'm pretty confident that the drug makers will shut that shit down. By the time a vaccine is available to the masses, I expect that most of these communities will be reasonably confident and comfortable with the vaccine.
Last edited:
First of all, I'm not well informed on this topic and the history behind it, and I apologize if anything I say is insensitive, but I'm not understanding. And I did read all the tweets in the OP.
If black people have historically been denied equal access to healthcare, why does that translate to mistrust of a universal vaccine? And why would anyone assume it's a "white" vaccine?
Personally, I feel the issue is that misinformation and lack of understanding leads to skepticism of vaccines, and misinformation and lack of understanding is more prevalent in minority groups like lower-income black communities due to unequal access to education, etc., but if the tweets are trying to say that then they aren't getting that across very well.
Edit: ok, I see a couple of posts talking about the fear of black people being used as guinea pigs essentially. I can understand that fear, definitely, and can see how it's born out of historical data, but I think lack of understanding is still the issue. And that's of course entirely on the systems built by white people denying black communities equality in education.
If black people have historically been denied equal access to healthcare, why does that translate to mistrust of a universal vaccine? And why would anyone assume it's a "white" vaccine?
Personally, I feel the issue is that misinformation and lack of understanding leads to skepticism of vaccines, and misinformation and lack of understanding is more prevalent in minority groups like lower-income black communities due to unequal access to education, etc., but if the tweets are trying to say that then they aren't getting that across very well.
Edit: ok, I see a couple of posts talking about the fear of black people being used as guinea pigs essentially. I can understand that fear, definitely, and can see how it's born out of historical data, but I think lack of understanding is still the issue. And that's of course entirely on the systems built by white people denying black communities equality in education.
It's not "anti-vax" sentiments, nothing in this discussion or the original post is trying to justify not taking the vaccine.
This is about explaining why entire communities mistrust any potential vaccine, and why it's a rational fear based on generations of past and current medical abuse that must be addressed in order to properly deploy a vaccine.
You have to convince people abused systemically by the medical field why they should trust it this time, now, pinky swear.
Last edited:
in the 50s, i'm sure i'd see them giving black people saline instead of vaccines.
In 2020, it's absurd to think that there will be separate syringes for black people at least in a 1st world country.
Either the vaccine is going to harm all races or no races. There is no magical ingredient to detect race or separate 'black people only' syringes.
I can't believe I am having to defend against anti-vax stuff on this site.
Instill trust. Most of these people aren't anti-vaxxers just folks that don't trust the system. Like others said, outreach and examples of other POC getting vaccinated will go a long way to mending that trust.
I get that, for sure, sad though it is.
I just worry that a bunch of people will be missing out because of this, so I hope something can be done to work toward breaking down the mistrust and people can get the help they need. Hopefully your new administration will start doing this shortly.
yeah, but historically grounded distrust is the point of this thread. calling people's fears ridiculous won't work because of the wealth of past abuse
Currently have a family member battling covid alone in the hospital. There is literally no room for skepticism. Like there is nothing even to talk about. Like consider yourself lucky and privileged to even be able to consider it.
Last edited:
That takes a long time though. It's worth doing, but there's no way to make big strides during COVID today when generations have suffered. You can't flip that on a dime (or 12 months.) People will die, and... that's it, they'll die because we've fucked up for hundreds of years. Exactly the kind of long term consequences that short term selfishness in power can never see, and if it did it wouldn't care.
The first world country is America, lol. Its not about a secret batch with a mustache twirling nazi, just the fact the rollout will not be unequal.
Opinion | We Need to Recruit More Black Americans in Vaccine Trials (Published 2020)
Pharmaceutical companies and the government must step up their efforts to enroll a diverse group of volunteers.
Hell yea. I'm glad to hear that not only am I not the only one who has spent time in thiss book, but to hear that it was actually required reading for a college course.
I can't think of a better endorsement. It's a heavy read, but it's an important read. People don't know how bad it was and how exploitative and manipulative things can be. Though continuing disproportionate death rates of black women in labor and similar statistics should make it clear that something is wrong for even your average uninformed person.
They have good reason to be paranoid about not getting equal rollout of the vaccine in their communities. In fact, I totally expect that to be a thing. However, doubting that the administered vaccine is the same given to everyone else, is harmful to no one but yourself. It sucks, because at that point you decide to miss out on your own accord, not because your asshole white doctor didn't want to give you proper treatment.
Perhaps this line of thinking is a natural consequence of being treated as medical guinea pigs for decades, but right in this moment, it will only lead minorities to suffer more on top.
To bring in an example of this from north of the border, entire Indigenous communities in Canada avoid the hospital because of how they face systematic abuse from nurses and doctors. It's more than just mistrust, but also receiving actual malice from the system.
In Canada, the federal government is trying to increase vaccine availability to our reserves for the first roll-out and there are already provincial leaders that are decrying this move. It's frustrating and frightening.
I'm speaking of people's thought process not reality.The first world country is America, lol. Its not about a secret batch with a mustache twirling nazi, just the fact the rollout will not be unequal.
Opinion | We Need to Recruit More Black Americans in Vaccine Trials (Published 2020)
Pharmaceutical companies and the government must step up their efforts to enroll a diverse group of volunteers.
Best of luck to you and your family member.
There's a tremendous privilege in discussing anything about this pandemic (edit:) short of "do everything fucking possible to end the pandemic" when you've been fortunate enough to not watch loved ones pass away from the disease.
I can only see valid skepticism in the rate of the vaccines availability personally. Once it's in your community you're good to go. I'm a black man and get being skeptical of other medical care issues but this particular vaccine is not one where I can share in that level of suspicion
It's very clear many on this forum are unaware of all of this whenever I see anti-vax rhetoric. It's one thing to shit on a white celebrity spreading misinformation about vaccines and autism, but a whole other to make blanket statements about how stupid anybody who doesn't believe in vaccines are. It basically screams, "I don't know how shitty my government has been". It's not wrong to not blindly trust the government.
Sounds a lot like anti-vaxxers not getting shots for their kids because they know some kid that developed autism.
Obviously there is an abhorrent history 40-50 years ago and beyond but you're wilfully ignoring science if this is your reasoning to avoid it in the modern age. Statistically speaking, you're a demographic facing the most risk due to socio-economic factors at some point you need to take ownership and weigh the risk v reward. These are peer-reviewed, globally created vaccines, not a US government agenda.
Obviously there is an abhorrent history 40-50 years ago and beyond but you're wilfully ignoring science if this is your reasoning to avoid it in the modern age. Statistically speaking, you're a demographic facing the most risk due to socio-economic factors at some point you need to take ownership and weigh the risk v reward. These are peer-reviewed, globally created vaccines, not a US government agenda.
Yeah it's not like the government or healthcare providers were sterilizing women without their knowledge and consent. I know what you're thinking "that's old stuff Dali. You're talking about the 60s" Nah buddy. I'm talking about this year. What's old is new again especially with the dipshit of a president we currently have. This country (the US) has a history of doing whatever the fuck want to minorities and making excuses for it like he's a criminal or they were an unwed mother or they're black. That's what the doctor is trying to say. It's not a conspiracy if it's been demonstrably proven.
Those are good steps. Then we should signal boost ethnic scientists and medical professionals at the very least.
No one should blindly trust the government. But the government did not create the vaccine, scientists did. Scientists who are having their work verified by independent regulators.
I don't care if I get banned for hostility. Real talk Fuck you. Did you even read a lick of what was presented in the OP?
science did hela and the tuskegee experiment, among countless others
imo it's perfectly understandable for people to "willfully ignore science," and it's the rest of society's duty to convince them it's safe
More proof!!!
50 years ago huh?
Black children are more likely to die after surgery than white counterparts, new study finds
Even among apparently healthy children, Black patients are almost 3.5 times more likely to die within a month after surgery than white patients, according to a new study.
www.statnews.com
Honestly, I bet a full-throated, government-wide capitulation to the demands of BLM would help instill vaccine trust.
I think trying to only think about this in terms of pro-vax/skeptic-vax is limiting. The problem is much broader than that, and by making headway on macro issues you can make headway on micro issues.
I think trying to only think about this in terms of pro-vax/skeptic-vax is limiting. The problem is much broader than that, and by making headway on macro issues you can make headway on micro issues.
Setting aside the issue of the effectiveness of the vaccine for a sec, "I don't trust the vaccine is real/will work" and "I don't trust the nurses/doctors/pharmacists administering this medicine to my community" are two different concerns but they lead to the same result, lower rates of vaccination and therefore society-wide effectiveness, and are both collapsed into the moniker of "anti-vax" in cultural vernacular.