Why Some Ethnic Groups Wont Want The Vaccine

[mbpm]

... About that...

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2018-04-20/why-women-struggle-to-get-doctors-to-believe-them

When Doctors Downplay Women’s Health Concerns (Published 2018)

Bias can lead doctors to dismiss women’s health problems. Here’s how to get the care you need.

www.nytimes.com

Doctors also ignore women. So basically all of these demographics that are hesitant about the vaccine have a history of being abused by the medical community.

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It really does seem to be a perfect storm. 2020 is a referendum on the US of A.

 

[Deleted member 12224]

That's because strawmen were proffered disingenuously very early in the thread, and had to be correctly curtailed so that the actual subject of the thread can be properly highlighted. Letitia Wright, Kanye West, conspiracy theorists and the "ankh-right" in general are all tangential to this core concern. And absolutely none of that was established in the original post, yet it is where the discussion was yanked. And here we rest at a place where folks are uneasy with the tone of a thread, still talking around this central problem.

This window dressing is all well and good because it's easier to engage with - "it" being the optics of discussing broken faith in a medical and governmental system that has historically and contemporaneously maligned minority communities. But the meat of the discussion rests in the substance of this entire affair, and centering that is the only way to actually address the issue at hand. The possible optics of normalization will just have to be what they are if indeed people can look at that OP, and walk away thinking it's arguing for further distrust in the medical field or vaccines. At that point, I would consider that an indictment on their ability to receive information rather than a failure to construct the argument.

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Unease with the tone of thread pertains to the underlined. What you believe are concerns about possible optics of normalization about distrust of medicine and vaccines, is for me concerns about possible normalization thereof, not mere optics. The central problem, for me, is getting people to take the vaccine. If I believe a particular discussion can exacerbate that problem, I will take issue with that discussion.

I think we should also be mindful of audience.

Clearly (and has been evidenced by this thread) there is an audience of people who need to be educated on why minorities' distrust and skepticism about a COVID vaccine and medicine in general are entirely rational and founded on centuries of still-ongoing medical racism.

At the same time, if you're a minority who was leaning towards not taking the vaccine (be that because of general skepticism or because you were already intellectually aware of this country's history of medical racism), then I would argue that this sort of PSA probably had the effect of pushing you further toward not taking the vaccine. And nobody benefits from that.

In my opinion, we are all better served if this sort of messaging and educating is pushed through public health circles and to the policy makers who have the power to act on it, rather than blasted through social media for laypeople to read and interpret as they will.

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Or this.

 

[mbpm]

In my opinion, we are all better served if this sort of messaging and educating is pushed through public health circles and to the policy makers who have the power to act on it, rather than blasted through social media for laypeople to read and interpret as they will.

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Probably, but at the same time ignoring it on social media just means the worst actors are the only ones who will speak on it. And that sort of thing just seems to fester if the conversation can't be grabbed hold of.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

As white people I don't know what we can do about this besides keep advocating against racial disparity in medicine and treatment, the skepticism is there because at best we're apathetic to it and at worst we've actively engaged in experimentation some real sick shit on minorities. Anything we say is going to be looked at with skepticism, I don't see a solution that doesn't come from within minority communities, as far as I can tell we just need to be supportive of and platform minorities who are working towards solving this.

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One of the major things that can be done is advocating for stronger public health awareness and trying to promote and fund community outreach.

This discussion is nuanced in the sense that the core of the mistrust is based on fsilure of institutions to serve poor and racialized communities. But in the same notion, this still needs to be taken seriously because it still is just another portion of the anti-vax spectrum that has to be addressed.

Public health is so important and the only real way you are going to reach people who have been disenfranchised by the system is both through outreach, information campaigns and actually providing access to health care.

 

[Deleted member 56803]

I'm Black and I am very hesitant about this vaccine due to how rushed out the process is. I understand that we need a vaccine as soon as possible, mind you, but I can't help but be a little worried by how quick our leaders are saying "we have the cure!"

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If it helps any, the vaccine really isn't being rushed. I've seen that statement a few times in the thread and it doesn't quite match what is going on. Also, Moderna made the right choice in actively seeking out minority and at risk trial participants (37 and 25 percent for the US trial), which I hope will help assuage fears.

 

[lenovox1]

I've been trying to stay away from these vaccine threads since I was banned in expressing this (just not this cohesive I will say). It was called trolling when I pleaded that I wasn't against the vaccine in itself at all. Like you OP, I am a black women and I didn't want to cry up and down the thread talking about how "I'm Black, I'm Black". And I know I could of did a better job of expressing this very same OP in the thread that it happened in, but this is all I was trying to say and that the jump to label people anti-vaxx (even when you have taken multiple different vaccines in your life with no issue) being completely nasty and harsh, and actually having the decency to explain how we benefit considering our trama without the name calling, rather than listening to why some people....especially POC have a hesitancy, is fucked up.

I'm getting the vaccine myself but these threads, the handling of these conversations, the jump to accusations, the name calling...all of that just makes it toxic af to have a voice as a POC. So thanks OP for saying what I couldn't and I'm stepping out.

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I didn't see that initial post, but your view is greater than valid. You should not have been banned for expressing that point-of-view.

 

[Trey]

if you're a minority who was leaning towards not taking the vaccine (be that because of general skepticism or because you were already intellectually aware of this country's history of medical racism), then I would argue that this sort of PSA probably had the effect of pushing you further toward not taking the vaccine. And nobody benefits from that.

In my opinion, we are all better served if this sort of messaging and educating is pushed through public health circles and to the policy makers who have the power to act on it, rather than blasted through social media for laypeople to read and interpret as they will.

Click to shrink...

Show your work. What about the OP is specifically prone to further misinforming people, or normalizing anti-vax sentiment?

The thread in the OP starts off by labelling the messenger (herself) as both a medical healthcare professional, and someone who is taking the vaccine, which sets the tone for all the information that follows. It then goes on to explain that the medical field is disproportionately harmful to minorities, which is a statement borne out by every statistical fact corrected for racial demographics. There are also historical facts which has bred this distrust across generations. All this is true. The effect is stated, and the cause is outlined.

The thread creator then makes the case for why minorities should get vaccinated anyway, and provides a way to best reach these entrenched demographics to ameliorate their concerns.

What about any of that is untoward? Of course people can misinterpret anything - accidentally or on purpose - as evidenced in this very thread. People don't think pragmatically a lot of the time, instead assuming their world view is correct and that their logic is sound. But the thread in the OP wasn't sensationalizing the situation, or taking anything out of context. If a concise, factual, practical analysis of the situation elicits such a disproportionate reaction, the people reacting to it are the ones being disingenuous; and the information probably wouldn't fare much better if it were to come exclusively through "official channels," given that that is the issue in the first place.

 

[JigglesBunny]

Maybe white people (like myself) should take the advice and stop trying to convince black people to ignore a deep-rooted distrust in a system that has historically failed them for decades and we should use our voices to signal-boost messaging and voices that will help to reassure black communities about these vaccines. So many people in this very thread are specifically committing the sort of ignorant chastising that she's pleading for white people to stop doing, maybe take the hint.

 

[Jeremy]

Doctors also ignore women. So basically all of these demographics that are hesitant about the vaccine have a history of being abused by the medical community.

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Yeah, like pregnancy effects being understudied, I think it's probably part of it, but even though I described the poll results as "shocking" there are a lot of complex factors at play which are manifesting here.

Flu shot uptake in the USA has hovered around 40%. Intended COVID uptake doesn't seem to be much more significant, but the various disinformation campaigns at play are actively reducing the number of people who are willing to take the vaccine in real time, if polling is to be believed.

Covid-19 vaccines face a varied and powerful misinformation movement online (nbcnews.com)
"A poll from the Pew Research Center published in September found a significant decline from May to September in people who said they would get the vaccine if it were immediately available."

Johnson and a team of researchers published a paper in Nature in May that suggested the anti-vaccination movement bore a big responsibility for such hesitancy. It showed that although membership in online anti-vaccination groups was smaller than in pro-vaccination groups, there were more of them, their messages were more diverse, emotive and often persuading, and they were better at spreading those messages outside their groups, meaning they were able to reach more people.

Research from a forthcoming paper from Johnson and his team, currently in review for publication, shows members of communities previously considered unrelated or "undecided" on vaccines — groups for pet lovers, parent school groups, yoga fans and foodies, for instance — are increasingly connecting with the anti-vaccination movement.

The politicization of the virus, social media, the historical factors that you describe, a lack of good messaging, etc... all of this plays into this.

Also, from what I 've seen in the last ~15 years or so the anti-vaccine movement actually grew out of predominantly white women as an outcropping of the autism awareness movement... largely from white, educated women who were acting not out of their own mistreatment at the hands of doctors, but instead out of frustration from how doctors were treating their children.

 

[Boondocks]

If anyone needs some info, this page is an update on the Pfizer/BionNTech vaccine study.

Coronavirus COVID-19 Vaccine Update: Latest Developments | Pfizer

See how Pfizer and BioNTech are leveraging decades of scientific expertise together to develop, test and manufacture a mRNA vaccine to help prevent COVID-19.

www.pfizer.com

Hopefully the FDA will release their findings after approval and we can see a more balanced report.

 

[Jeremy]

Biden addressed prioritizing racial access to the vaccine in his joint interview yesterday, fwiw. He didn't get into conspiracy theories and the like, but his team is working on the issue specifically.

 

[julian]

I'm Black and I am very hesitant about this vaccine due to how rushed out the process is. I understand that we need a vaccine as soon as possible, mind you, but I can't help but be a little worried by how quick our leaders are saying "we have the cure!"

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It wasn't really rushed. It's that the vaccines themselves were made very quickly (a few days), but then testing takes as long as it has always taken (several months). This is because everybody got access to the full makeup of the virus at the same time, which isn't really something that has happened before. It's also why all the vaccines seemed to have gotten results around the same time. I'm explaining this horribly. Lol. basically, it seems rushed but testing actually took as long as it always has.

 

[Thordinson]

Hell yea. I'm glad to hear that not only am I not the only one who has spent time in thiss book, but to hear that it was actually required reading for a college course.

I can't think of a better endorsement. It's a heavy read, but it's an important read. People don't know how bad it was and how exploitative and manipulative things can be. Though continuing disproportionate death rates of black women in labor and similar statistics should make it clear that something is wrong for even your average uninformed person.

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I'm glad the professor assigned it. Her class changed my entire worldview. I wouldn't be the activist and advocate I am today without that class and book.

It is a huge problem that I didn't know existed. It's easy to not see it when these things don't affect you. And once you see how bad the disparities really are...It's heartbreaking. But I'm glad my eyes were opened. It gives perspective on why so many Black people are hesitant about medical care.

 

[prophetvx]

It wasn't really rushed. It's that the vaccines themselves were made very quickly (a few days), but then testing takes as long as it has always taken (several months). This is because everybody got access to the full makeup of the virus at the same time, which isn't really something that has happened before. It's also why all the vaccines seemed to have gotten results around the same time. I'm explaining this horribly. Lol. basically, it seems rushed but testing actually took as long as it always has.

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Not to mention financial motivation was a non-factor, every government in the world is throwing their weight behind, nor was there a shortage of infected people to test efficacy, or bureaucratic road blocks like queues for analysis. Vaccines in general aren't that profitable, pharma prefers rare conditions that they can charge through the roof for. Obviously the conditions here meant that funding was not an issue and goals were aligned globally.

In short, testing here wasn't any shorter or less thorough than it normally is, just conditions ensured that the results could be delivered faster.

 

[Sensei]

america's awful practices throughout its history are setting america up for failure in the present and the future. its scary to think about how much more we still need to come to terms with, for the good of the country and the world

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

To be honest, considering the USA has at least 70 million crazies and they are mostly white, I'd be more concerned about white people not wanting to vaccinate than black people 🤷

 

[GYODX]

Show your work. What about the OP is specifically prone to further misinforming people, or normalizing anti-vax sentiment?

The thread in the OP starts off by labelling the messenger (herself) as both a medical healthcare professional, and someone who is taking the vaccine, which sets the tone for all the information that follows. It then goes on to explain that the medical field is disproportionately harmful to minorities, which is a statement borne out by every statistical fact corrected for racial demographics. There are also historical facts which has bred this distrust across generations. All this is true. The effect is stated, and the cause is outlined.

The thread creator then makes the case for why minorities should get vaccinated anyway, and provides a way to best reach these entrenched demographics to ameliorate their concerns.

What about any of that is untoward? Of course people can misinterpret anything - accidentally or on purpose - as evidenced in this very thread. People don't think pragmatically a lot of the time, instead assuming their world view is correct and that their logic is sound. But the thread in the OP wasn't sensationalizing the situation, or taking anything out of context. If a concise, factual, practical analysis of the situation elicits such a disproportionate reaction, the people reacting to it are the ones being disingenuous; and the information probably wouldn't fare much better if it were to come exclusively through "official channels," given that that is the issue in the first place.

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I acknowledged that everything in the OP is factual and the very well-documented history of medical racism. My own people were used as guinea pigs for birth control pills by the US.

I'm not talking about intent, only the effect. In my opinion (and this is only conjecture, of course), when minorities who were already leaning toward not taking the vaccine see this comprehensive and well laid-out case for why their skepticism is justified (and it is!), their reaction won't be "well gee, maybe this time it'll be different"; it'll just push them further toward not taking the vaccine. And no one benefits from that public health outcome.

Also, I didn't really have Era's userbase in mind, but rather the broader public. I think that anyone who wasn't a disingenuous actor in the first place is capable of nuance and understanding the actual intent behind the tweets and the OP's post. I don't think that's true of the broader public, though. There is little room for nuance in public health messaging.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm glad the professor assigned it. Her class changed my entire worldview. I wouldn't be the activist and advocate I am today without that class and book.

It is a huge problem that I didn't know existed. It's easy to not see it when these things don't affect you. And once you see how bad the disparities really are...It's heartbreaking. But I'm glad my eyes were opened. It gives perspective on why so many Black people are hesitant about medical care.

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cheers.

 

[LegendofJoe]

There are whole fields of medicine that are shut out to black folks. Dermatology in particular might as well not exist for black people.

If I was super rich I'd start a medical research school that was wholly focused on addressing the racial gap in medical science/knowledge.

 

[KillLaCam]

While I do understand why some people feel that way, it's definitely not "completely" rational. There's no shortage of infected ppl in this situation. Most ppl should be fine

 

[KingK]

Yeah I saw a Jon Oliver episode all about racism in the medical field a while ago and it was utterly shocking to me.

In light of all that info, I certainly get the skepticism. I just hope that trusted figures and explanations will be enough to bridge that initial skepticism.

 

[Aske]

Holy fuck are things bad for POC. I had no idea fucking doctors believed they experienced pain "less acutely" than whites.