Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

[Ferrs]

The new chapter is peak this! Poor Nami ;_;

I'm really salty today with One Piece, sorry for the spam.

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Oh, I dropped it around the DoFlamingo arc and that bikini armor gladiator (mind you, I didn't only dropped it about the designs,overall it wasn't grabbing me as much anymore, but still...).

It was the only manga I religiously followed since Dragon Ball :/

 

[Xaszatm]

The new chapter is peak this! Poor Nami ;_;

I'm really salty today with One Piece, sorry for the spam.

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Jeez what happened? I usually wait till the end of arcs than read them as a whole so what happened this week?

 

[Korigama]

As an old fan of the franchise, I've been following the review thread for Soulcalibur VI and I've seen it receive some pretty glowing praise.

So I started watching some videos and, uhm, I don't think I've seen such aggressive sexualization in a fighting game in... well, ever since DOA? Possibly ever?
Am I having a puritan moment here or it's actually bad? I'm kind of surprises there was no backlash.

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Street Fighter V isn't really much different from Soul Calibur or DoA in that regard.

Which is kind of ironic considering DOA seems to be toning down it's sexualization for DOA 6.

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It's on track to be a repeat of what they tried and failed with for DoA5 before backpedaling on that idea throughout that game's lifespan, down to even bringing back the "I'm a Fighter" slogan from that game's marketing campaign.

 

[Visanideth]

Street Fighter V isn't really much different from Soul Calibur or DoA in that regard at this point.

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Eh, what I've seen in VI struck me as remarkably worse thant SFV. It's weird, neither my wife nor my sister are bothered by the sexualization in V. I guess it's the cartoony graphics.

 

[Biestmann]

Street Fighter V isn't really much different from Soul Calibur or DoA in that regard.

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I'd definitely put SFV on the same level as SCVI. Might even be worse.

 

[The Johnstruct]

The title of thread is literally a reference to Cammy right?

 

[Syril]

Eh, what I've seen in VI struck me as remarkably worse thant SFV. It's weird, neither my wife nor my sister are bothered by the sexualization in V. I guess it's the cartoony graphics.

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Yeah, SFV has issues, but some of the Soul Calibur stuff is outright gross, like having Talim who is explicitly underage designed like this.

 

[majek]

Jeez what happened? I usually wait till the end of arcs than read them as a whole so what happened this week?

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kunoichi outfit that fits the title of this thread. And Sanji's behavior is even worse than that in this chapter.

 

[CaptainKashup]

Since RDR 2 is coming in a week, I can do nothing but hope that Saddie will break the mold in term of Rockstar female character.
As much as I like their writing, I can't think of a single one female character who actually plays a significant role. Plus, most of them usueally fall in the "damsel in distress" trope.
She's by far the coolest looking newcomer and I'll be really sad if they don't use her well.

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[Xaszatm]

kunoichi outfit that fits the title of this thread. And Sanji's behavior is even worse than that in this chapter.

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So, basically the minuscule character growth Sanji experienced in Whole Cake Arc went out the window? Of course.

 

[Mesoian]

Since RDR 2 is coming in a week, I can do nothing but hope that Saddie will break the mold in term of Rockstar female character.
As much as I like their writing, I can't think of a single one female character who actually plays a significant role. Plus, most of them usueally fall in the "damsel in distress" trope.
She's by far the coolest looking newcomer and I'll be really sad if they don't use her well.

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Expect her to not be used well. Rockstar has a long history of creating great female characters and then throwing them under the bus, usually for laughs.

So, basically the minuscule character growth Sanji experienced in Whole Cake Arc went out the window? Of course.

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IIRC, he doesn't remember most of cake island.

I'm more than a few chapters behind though.

 

[Dary]

So, basically the minuscule character growth Sanji experienced in Whole Cake Arc went out the window? Of course.

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Isn't that standard in this sort of thing? Who cares about character development and continuity when there's a comedy cliche to tick off the list!

 

[majek]

So, basically the minuscule character growth Sanji experienced in Whole Cake Arc went out the window? Of course.

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In this chapter? Definitely.

 

[Xaszatm]

Expect her to not be used well. Rockstar has a long history of creating great female characters and then throwing them under the bus, usually for laughs.



IIRC, he doesn't remember most of cake island.

I'm more than a few chapters behind though.

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...I'm sorry I stopped after the side chapters featuring Vivi so I haven't kept up but what.

 

[Deleted member 20850]

I am also not very happy with Soul Calibur. It seems Ivy doesn't even have a halfway decent alternative costume?

In general female characters there seem more sexualized than I expected to the point I would probably play with Siegfried or Raphael if I got it. But since it makes me feel like that it's hard to justify for me to buy the game.

 

[Latpri]

They're great. Shame you can't change the character's outfit without having to equip specific equpment. I'd have kept Jade in the uniform considering the state of her other outifts.

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They should always be wearing this armor no matter what because it boosts item drop rates!!!

Jeez what happened? I usually wait till the end of arcs than read them as a whole so what happened this week?

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Kinemon made everyone outfits using his Devil Fruit ability and Nami wanted to be a ninja, but he gave her Sexy Ninja instead. Then Sanji said "Thats a Sexy Ninja outfit" <- paraphrased

 

[Morrigan]

Also since we are talking about Soul Caliber, I am contractually obligated to pull the Morrigan symbol in the air.

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Wat

 

[Xaszatm]

Wat

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Earlier we were talking about Soul Caliber and someone asked if the designs were always this bad.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Btw if you guys want a game that actually does pretty good representation.

Give The missing, that new game by swery65, a look.

 

[Deleted member 30569]

Since RDR 2 is coming in a week, I can do nothing but hope that Saddie will break the mold in term of Rockstar female character.
As much as I like their writing, I can't think of a single one female character who actually plays a significant role. Plus, most of them usueally fall in the "damsel in distress" trope.
She's by far the coolest looking newcomer and I'll be really sad if they don't use her well.

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Define "significant." In the first game, Bonnie McFarlane was great. Greatly written, strong and independent.

 

[Mesoian]

...I'm sorry I stopped after the side chapters featuring Vivi so I haven't kept up but what.

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IIRC, the last thing pudding did was erase Sanji's memory of her and him. So everything he learned through her is lost, but he still remembers all the vinsmoke stuff and beating Big Mom.

Because the manga scene is SCARED TO DEATH of anything resembling growth. Everyone must be the same at all times, the only thing allowed to be gained being physical strength.

 

[Korigama]

I am also not very happy with Soul Calibur. It seems Ivy doesn't even have a halfway decent alternative costume?

In general female characters there seem more sexualized than I expected to the point I would probably play with Siegfried or Raphael if I got it. But since it makes me feel like that it's hard to justify for me to buy the game.

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No one has alternate costumes in SCVI. One outfit, two different colors. Create-a-Soul allows for changing what everyone wears, though.

 

[Xaszatm]

IIRC, the last thing pudding did was erase Sanji's memory of her and him. So everything he learned through her is lost, but he still remembers all the vinsmoke stuff and beating Big Mom.

Because the manga scene is SCARED TO DEATH of anything resembling growth. Everyone must be the same at all times, the only thing allowed to be gained being physical strength.

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Oh I remember that. I think she only removed the kiss though and nothing else.

 

[Biestmann]

No one has alternate costumes in SCVI.

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Well, some (read: female) characters needed them more than others.

 

[Hermii]

What's the concensus on dead or alive extreme beach volleyball? I have no problem with it because it's so honest about being what it is: soft porn. Objectification is the whole point. I respect those who despise it, but then you should be against porn as well.

 

[Joe2187]

What's the concensus on dead or alive extreme beach volleyball? I have no problem with it because it's so honest about being what it is: soft porn. Objectification is the whole point. I respect those who despise it, but then you should be against porn as well.

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Even without the sex, the game is legit trash...

only the first one had a semi-decent volleyball game, the latest one was utter garbage and one of the worst imports I have ever played. A literal grind for anything with really awful minigames, terrible loading and UI....just a fucking mess. It was more a chore to boot up the game and load one of it's 30 second mini games and spend whatever amount of time micromanaging stupid shit.

 

[Korigama]

Well, some (read: female) characters needed them more than others.

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As it stands, the sensibilities of VI are a reversal of what they were going for with V, which was largely toned down compared to IV.

What's the concensus on dead or alive extreme beach volleyball? I have no problem with it because it's so honest about being what it is: soft porn. Objectification is the whole point. I respect those who despise it, but then you should be against porn as well.

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I like mainline DoA, but I have no use for DoAX. A premise with a focus on nothing but swimwear is boring to me, and the consensus is that they stopped being worth anything as actual games after the first one (which was the only one regarded as a decent volleyball game), whereas mainline DoA is producing worthwhile fighting games with 5 and on track to continue with 6. And even as someone who doesn't object to fan service on principle (my tolerance varies, as with anyone else), I always thought adding the pole dancing crap to that sub-series starting with DoAX2 was dumb as hell.

Even without the sex, the game is legit trash...

only the first one had a semi-decent volleyball game, the latest one was utter garbage and one of the worst imports I have ever played. A literal grind for anything with really awful minigames, terrible loading and UI....just a fucking mess. It was more a chore to boot up the game and load one of it's 30 second mini games and spend whatever amount of time micromanaging stupid shit.

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I had heard about how they also turned playing it into grind by DoAX3, yeah. Truly nothing of value was lost in the decision not to localize it.

 

[Joe2187]

I had heard about how they also turned playing it into grind by DoAX3, yeah. Truly nothing of value was lost in the decision not to localize it.

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The grind was atrocious yeah and literally only there to make you pad out the games length....but....you could bypass most of it....with DLC!!.....

what a goddamn piece of shit game.

 

[Village]

What's the concensus on dead or alive extreme beach volleyball? I have no problem with it because it's so honest about being what it is: soft porn. Objectification is the whole point. I respect those who despise it, but then you should be against porn as well.

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• The games are legit bad, well legit bad when I played them. I don't go out and find those games, but I have a very specific friend that does. And I've played his copies for goofs, if you don't feel like I don't have an accurate enough picture because I do not actually own the games and my playtime with them has been...limited to say the least, please let me know. My knowledge of the beach volleyball series is quite limited and I may have missed some things but from what I played those games are not good games. 2nd game has the Fire early 2000 country pop theme though, so it got that going for it.
  
• Along with that, multiple under age characters and one character who is supposedly of age but looks fucking 12 is not a good look my dude, especially in in the vollyball games, Yikes from me dog. That isn't to say people who don't look their age don't exist, but that character seemed designed for a very specific reason.
  
• Along with just being not good, I find them increasingly useless in the modern climate? These types of games seem like a weird middle man that doesn't need to exist, in age where people have animation programs. But from my understanding people buy them, so they are working for someone.

This is on top of

The entire premise of these games being the only black dude in the DOA cast inviting a bunch of women ( Some of them underage ) to a private island so he can spy on them with hidden cameras and sexually harass them. Which a lot of unfortunate problematic things, wrapped into a single problematic package. And also the plot of the SNK heroines game.

Now let me be clear, if you wanna make a sexy beach vollyball game. Aright. I have no interest in it, but the premise isn't abhorrent, but if you can't even make the game good at that point, its a glorified model viewer? Along with that ( and the other problematic shit I mentioned above ) they don't give the doa guys the same treatement? They do in the fighting games, not in these spin offs, why can't there be dead or alive dude island or something, maybe they have data that says the audience for that sort of fanservice wouldn't buy games like that, but I kind of doubt that and I think its more them not caring.

So I guess my opinion in short is: Its a product I find largely worthless in the modern day filled with problematic shit sold to audience who still buys it.

Edit: Also not a woman, so some women may feel differently.

 

[Korigama]

No one in DoA is underage as of DoA5/DoAX3 (they aged everyone up two years so that they could drop that ridiculous "Age: N/A" sidestepping they had been doing with Kasumi and Ayane before that).

Along with that ( and the other problematic shit I mentioned above ) they don't give the doa guys the same treatement? They do in the fighting games, not in these spin offs, why can't there be dead or alive dude island or something, maybe they have data that says the audience for that sort of fanservice wouldn't buy games like that, but I kind of doubt that and I think its more them not caring.

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A little from Column A, a little from Column B may be possible, but that's ultimately conjecture. They deliberately created much less costume DLC to buy for the men in DoA5, and supposedly decided against adding male DLC characters for 5:U and 5:LR because they thought people wouldn't buy them. Realistically, I don't see any chance of them ever making any game focused only on the DoA men (the JP-only collector's edition for DoA6 makes it abundantly clear where their priorities lie).

 

[Village]

I did not know that, again my time again with the games were limited so I guess I was wrong on that front. Though at a time, they did indulge in that. I mean, I guess they still kinda do because there is a school girl(s) ( I do not keep up with the doa roster they may have added more . So they playing the line real hard

 

[OhSatan]

Jeez what happened? I usually wait till the end of arcs than read them as a whole so what happened this week?

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kunoichi outfit that fits the title of this thread. And Sanji's behavior is even worse than that in this chapter.

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And to put the cherry on top Nami wanted a classic ninja oufit but no the samurai is a pervert, you even see her mad at the sexy outfit and triying to cover her cleavage, all is done with the Samurai magic clothes if you remember them from Dressrosa.

Oda literally had his cake and eat it too.

Spoiler: Nami

I also remembered another thing, this chapter confirms Robin is a red light geisha... Oda pls.

 

[CaptainKashup]

Define "significant." In the first game, Bonnie McFarlane was great. Greatly written, strong and independent.

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Bonnie MacFarlane was great. The only problem is that after her typical "damsel in distress" mission, she just disappear until the end of the game, where she's seen once.
She could've been much more.

 

[majek]

Define "significant." In the first game, Bonnie McFarlane was great. Greatly written, strong and independent.

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And as a reward for all these good things she was kidnapped, assaulted and almost hanged to death. Also i don't think they even gave her a happy ending in the newspaper articles in the end. She certainly earned something good for everything.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Lost in that Vulture interview with Dan, he did comment on the portrayal of women in RDR2

Rockstar has been criticized for the lack of empowered women in its games. Dan believes that won't be an issue in RDR2, which features, among others, "this old intellectual called Lillian Powell, who's come back to the South from New York, who's almost like a Dorothy Parker character. There are also ones who are weak and ones who are weak and become strong and ones who think they're strong but are not. And that goes for men, too." The burgeoning women's suffrage movement also figures in the story. "It was a time when women were beginning to question [their roles], and the Wild West was an area where people could invent themselves for the first time; many of the people who were inventing themselves were women," says Dan. "They were no longer constrained by society, because there was no society."

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[Deleted member 30569]

Bonnie MacFarlane was great. The only problem is that after her typical "damsel in distress" mission, she just disappear until the end of the game, where she's seen once.
She could've been much more.

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I certainly agree with the bolded.

And as a reward for all these good things she was kidnapped, assaulted and almost hanged to death. Also i don't think they even gave her a happy ending in the newspaper articles in the end. She certainly earned something good for everything.

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Didn't she

Spoiler: Bonnie McFarlane spoiler in RDR

end up getting married, actually? She actually had one of the better endings out of the list of people that were given endings...

 

[majek]

Hmm i don't really remember. Could be.

 

[Xaszatm]

And to put the cherry on top Nami wanted a classic ninja oufit but no the samurai is a pervert, you even see her mad at the sexy outfit and triying to cover her cleavage, all is done with the Samurai magic clothes if you remember them from Dressrosa.

Oda literally had his cake and eat it too.

Spoiler: Nami

I also remembered another thing, this chapter confirms Robin is a red light geisha... Oda pls.

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...wat. Really? A red light geisha? Goddamn it.

 

[Mesoian]

Eh, what I've seen in VI struck me as remarkably worse thant SFV. It's weird, neither my wife nor my sister are bothered by the sexualization in V. I guess it's the cartoony graphics.

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From what little I've seen on twitter thus far, it looks like the create a character will be the oasis for anyone bothered by the WANTON oversexualization of the female characters.

That being said, the defaults this time around are pretty shameful.

 

[OhSatan]

...wat. Really? A red light geisha? Goddamn it.

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Yeah all the strawhats are undercover and She is a Geisha and all the fandom was, no no it's not that bad she totally is a wandering Geisha, its cool.

Then today's chapter spell it out.

 

[Xaszatm]

Yeah all the strawhats are undercover and She is a Geisha and all the fandom was, no no it's not that bad she totally is a wandering Geisha, its cool.

Then today's chapter spell it out.

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Hey, remember when Nico Robin was one of the most powerful member of the crew and the most ruthless? Yeah, that's not as important as reducing her to fanservice. This sucks. Nico is my favorite straw hat and the journal after the timeskip hasn't been fun.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Post time skip OP has made me hate Sanuk but my sister (she got me into OP) tends to jokingly defend his nonsense because she loves all strawhats, but just now she asked me if I read the new chapter, to which I replied "no but I hear Sanji is terrible in it" and she immediately said "he is" lol, I wonder what's waiting for me.

 

[timedesk]

I can't really describe how sad some of the character designs in Soul Calibur 6 make me. Soul Calibur 2 and 3 were the first fighting games that got me really interested in the game's universe and story. Every time I see Siegfried and Nightmare I am reminded of how I felt as a kid playing the game at a demo station in Best Buy. I remember how when SC4 came out I thought Hilde was the single coolest design for a female knight ever. Part of me is kind of glad she isn't in this game, they probably would give her massive boob armor or something equally dumb.

It is so strange to me how bad some fighting game franchises have gotten with the character designs for women. I have to think it is related to the rise of microtransactions and the whole "sex sells" mindset. I will have to say though, I think there is still hope for this genre.

I remember back in 2011 when MK 9 came out. The designs for every single woman was laughable. Balloon boobs, ridiculously flimsy costumes, and Jade pole danced with her staff as a victory pose. I really enjoyed the story mode, but the women were underserved even there. Hell, they had the gall to make an almost 200 floor challenge tower in that game, and the reward was a slightly more naked Mileena... ugh.

But amazingly, the studio has really started to turn around. In MKX not only did they make better designs for their female cast, they actually retroactively tried to fix the costumes for MK9. Sonya and Kitana both have alternate costumes that look like their MK9 costumes, but you know designed for humans and not sex dolls. Even Injustice 2 which had to adapt some comic book characters known for their fanservicy costumes, managed to be not too exploitative.

I guess my point is that if a studio most known for immature excess like Mortal Kombat can pull themselves back from pointless fanservice, maybe their is hope that franchises like Soul Calibur and Street Fighter can come back from this, that they don't have to cater to the otaku culture, and that there is value in developing and respecting their female cast.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I just found out a manga that have a interesting premise reversing how genres are viewed and how each side see and it's the first time that I see a piece of media doing something like that with how it is in our world. The manga is called The World of Moral Reversal and the synopsis (not official, it's by Mangaupdates) is this:

"In our current society, most porn consumers are males, we are the ones who think with our d***** many times, we worship the female body and our society, products, advertisements and many other things are centered around that. But, what if it wasn't that way? What if, instead of men being the ones controlled by their sexual urges, women were the ones who bought porn magazines and had the most interest in sex? What if the moral standards between men and women were reversed?"

There's only 10 chapters translated but I found it interesting in how it portrays men in that society and I thought that this could be interesting for this thread considering that I remember seeing arguments around it in the past.

Just two parts to show a bit of it:

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I checked this out bracing for worst because that synopsis honestly sounds like a throwaway premise for porn or something. I am surprised that it seems that the author put some thought into the world and didn't just reverse everything willy-nilly, and it also touches upon some relevant subjects like the reverse versions of toxic masculinity and female purity.

However, I am disappointed that it still blatantly caters to men. I was kinda hoping that it would be bolder in demonstrating how uncomfortable it feels to constantly be the object of casual sexualization in media, but apart for the moments when it is making social commentaries, the comic is very much still male-gazey. It also exclusively showcases the female characters while the male ones are pretty much reduced to nameless, generic background characters.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

I checked this out bracing for worst because that synopsis honestly sounds like a throwaway premise for porn or something. I am surprised that it seems that the author put some thought into the world and didn't just reverse everything willy-nilly, and it also touches upon some relevant subjects like the reverse versions of toxic masculinity and female purity.

However, I am disappointed that it still blatantly caters to men. I was kinda hoping that it would be bolder in demonstrating how uncomfortable it feels to constantly be the object of casual sexualization in media, but apart for the moments when it is making social commentaries, the comic is very much still male-gazey. It also exclusively showcases the female characters while the male ones are pretty much reduced to nameless, generic background characters.

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Yeah, I can understand why you felt like that. Still, I thought that those moments here and there where the manga presents the reverse of each gender with it's social commentaries were interesting enough to make me continue with this.

 

[Dragmire]

I don't care for Soul Caliber anymore but it's funny that the exclusion of Hilde in this game feels like scamco made some no full-armored female character quota.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

I also remembered another thing, this chapter confirms Robin is a red light geisha... Oda pls.

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Oh for gods sake. Sigh, one piece. Some parts are so nice for what it is, but whenever female characters exist in it, Oda just... doesn't know what to do if it's not service.

Lost in that Vulture interview with Dan, he did comment on the portrayal of women in RDR2

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That actually sounds pretty good. Definitely gotta give credit to them for that if that turns out nicely.

 

[Skittles]

Yeah, her default outfit looks great. But, like you said, minus points because of the heels. Even in her home outfit she uses heels :(

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Yeap, don't know why they didn't give her some stylized boots. Woulda been goat

 

[Redcrayon]

Anyone up for a game of bingo? Here's Aversa's artwork, the latest addition to Fire Emblem Heroes (character originally from FE Awakening).

I've got outfits painted onto breasts with no nipples, weird anatomy, zetta-ryoki, arrow pointing to crotch, focus on thighs and breasts as the key parts of the art, battlefield stilettos and combat suspenders on my board so far.

 

[Deleted member 41271]

And of course garter straps. Bingo shattered D: