These are all the reasons I'll never be able to love it, and just have to admit it's another game with potential for Atlus marred by its own adherence to the things it says it's against.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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So, they're something a bit baffling happening right now on another thread.
Raf Agressetti, Art Director of the last God of War, is doing fan art of Smash Bros characters with his own style. People are pretty divisive about it but that's not why I'm here for.
Quite a few people there don't like his take on Samus because it's too "masculine" and asking if he knows it's girl under the armor.
Personally, I think it's a really good realistic and not sexualised take on the character.
Raf Agressetti, Art Director of the last God of War, is doing fan art of Smash Bros characters with his own style. People are pretty divisive about it but that's not why I'm here for.
Quite a few people there don't like his take on Samus because it's too "masculine" and asking if he knows it's girl under the armor.
Personally, I think it's a really good realistic and not sexualised take on the character.
The Varia suit having a hyper-masculine form (extremely broad shoulders, to the point of absurdity, etc) i think is very much part of its appeal. Proportionally its such a brutish thing, but its balanced super well by its colour scheme and the general delicate nature of its details. It kind of ends up looking like a super-hench space crustacean, and suitably alien. Even the fusion suit incorporates those broad, inhuman shoulders. For better or for worse (better imo) Samus' various suits always look like they can't be physically accurate not just to a traditional "feminine" form, but to any human being.
On a separate note, I hate this particular take on it. For a Varia suit, it just doesn't have a strong enough silhouette IMO. Not a fan.
It's strange. I see fans on here trashtalk the writing of P5 all the time, all while saying they love its message and that it is their favorite game of the year. What is the point of a message then if the writing constantly betrays it? These people always strike me as spouting contradictions.
She looks great! I should not be able to tell if there is a man or a woman hiding underneath a suit such as this.
She looks great! I should not be able to tell if there is a man or a woman hiding underneath a suit such as this.
The suit looks masculine but I see nothing that would make it for some reason unbelievable that it's a woman inside.
So basically perfect for the "Oh she is a woman?" reveal of the first game. I see no problems with the design.
Before I talk about P5
You ever see a youtube thumbnail that made you roll your eyes so hard they almost fall out of your head " How nintendo gets female representation right " The thumbnail consists of Link in the gerudo outfit , zeda a girl who should have been playable in zelda years ago and has never been playable and is litterally missing for most of the game. And then in the corner a picture of the new battlefield I am assuming is some sort of comparison? Unless i'm wrong the women in battlefield were playable, unlike the damnsel in distress that you never see and link having to cross dress to get into a city. Now The video could be on the up and up , but that thumbnail made me not want to click the shit at all
As for Persona 5,
Persona 5 , on a technical level , is a good video game. However I feel like it learned every wrong lesson it could from the success of person 3 and more so persona 5. Choosing not to evovle anr grow in the aspects people praised them and sometimes criticized them for. But double down on general waifu and problematic shit. Persona 5 makes me scared, that eventually outside of the music persona is gonna evovle into this generic anime waifu thing that's no different than the plethora of other RPG's that are exist that are that. I know persona had problems, but P5 made me see the potential downfall of the franchise... at least in my eyes anyway
You ever see a youtube thumbnail that made you roll your eyes so hard they almost fall out of your head " How nintendo gets female representation right " The thumbnail consists of Link in the gerudo outfit , zeda a girl who should have been playable in zelda years ago and has never been playable and is litterally missing for most of the game. And then in the corner a picture of the new battlefield I am assuming is some sort of comparison? Unless i'm wrong the women in battlefield were playable, unlike the damnsel in distress that you never see and link having to cross dress to get into a city. Now The video could be on the up and up , but that thumbnail made me not want to click the shit at all
As for Persona 5,
Persona 5 , on a technical level , is a good video game. However I feel like it learned every wrong lesson it could from the success of person 3 and more so persona 5. Choosing not to evovle anr grow in the aspects people praised them and sometimes criticized them for. But double down on general waifu and problematic shit. Persona 5 makes me scared, that eventually outside of the music persona is gonna evovle into this generic anime waifu thing that's no different than the plethora of other RPG's that are exist that are that. I know persona had problems, but P5 made me see the potential downfall of the franchise... at least in my eyes anyway
I'm playing through Battletech on PC and just have to say how much I love Kamea Arano. Not only is she a well-written character, but her design is a breath of fresh air. I can't stop looking for slits in her clothes that reveal skin on her torso, thighs....but there's nothing!
I was waiting for Atlus to release P5Crimson or whatever to finally play P5, but my desire to play it gets lowered every time I'm reminded of the issues this game has.
Even the anime had to be so authentic to the game:
see it's funny cuz they're gay!
I saw the first "too masculine" comment and closed the thread, but was left wondering what particularly makes the design "too masculine". I guess the helmet is missing lipstick.
First, I have seen the exact thumbnail you've described and I also thought the video looked suspect AF. Yes it might not another anti-SJW video, but these days I'm not giving clicks to any video on YouTube. Not everyone deserves ad revenue.
Second, I just want another Persona game similar to 2, but it seems the waifu bait portion of the games are more popular these days. I don't have the greatest hope for that aspect of eventual P6.
Look, it I can't get a boner looking at it, then how am I supposed to know it's a woman????????
/s
The suit design is fine but I personally don't like the artwork itself. I don't know why either.
I'm not a massive fan of the artwork either. That's not me saying it's no good, because it is - I just find the style rather generic.
...Okay, now I'm intrigued. Maybe not for the right reasons, but I'm intrigued.
It's the helmet, I think. I like it overall, but the helmet silhouette somehow doesn't really call back to her previous designs.
The helmet looks too narrow, should be wider (that's the only thing that seemed off about it to me).
KOS-MOS is a combat android serving as a vessel for the soul of Mary Magdalene, with the latter awakening being the reason why her eye color occasionally changed from red to blue. A similar, dark-skinned android called T-elos serving as one of the antagonists was made with the body of Mary Magdalene. And a party member named chaos was the one behind Jesus' miracles.
...It's all every bit as stupid as it sounds, and for the life of me I will never understand why some continue to revere Xenosaga as they do (I say this as someone who loves Xenogears and enjoyed the original Xenoblade, had no interest in bothering with X and setting expectations low for 2).
Basically, one of the Xenosaga villains exhumed the body of Mary Magdalene and turns it into an Evil Robot Waifu, while Mary's soul is reincarnated into the Good Robot Waifu.
I'm not joking. This is a game series that includes Jesus in a flashback. Actual Real Jesus.
This is every bit as wonderful as I had hoped.
I was pretty disappointed when Gita Jackson of Kotaku was sounding off on twitter about people criticising the more reprehensible elements of P5 as looking to get offended because "it gets so much right" (in its writing? like what?) it should essentially get a free pass. She quietly deleted that tweet after I responded that gay panic is still a legal murder defence in many places, so passing those predatory NPCs off as harmless is pretty damn weird. I do wonder if the cultural barrier has some people reluctant to critique Japanese games in the same way they do western products on their themes and messaging for fear of backlash or accusations of cultural insensitivity etc
I can only speak for myself here, and I don't know if it was my game of the year, but I do like it. There are parts of the game that feel like they were written by people who "got it" and I appreciated those moments. Parts of Kamoshida's Palace, Sae (ie a better-done version of a previous Persona character), talented female characters getting screwed over by jealous men in power, etc. I mean, how often is sexism focused on in video games beyond "You can't fight, you're just a gir- OH MY GOD!" or "You were a girl this whole time?!" In P5, it isn't just pointed out and dropped as part of one character's arc, it's very much a running theme of the game.
That being said, I don't want to give it any sort of pass or expect others to ignore glaring issues in the interest of enjoying it. There is an obvious intent to pander in P5 that is noticeably worse than previous entries and despite them telling us every other minute "Wow, it kinda sucks for women, doesn't it?", they don't follow their own advice. As said earlier, it feels like completely different people writing who were not even close to being on the same page.
Are you me? Lol. I got the same recommendation and, like, immediately I rolled my eyes and could come up with a gazillion examples of how much Nintendo suuuuuuuucks ass when it comes to their female characters.
Nintendo has made some strides with newer franchises with POC's and Women.
All their old legacy franchises, not so much.
I have finally had a forreal legit playtrhough of zelda i'm almost finished with, and I think i'm gonna make a thread... maybe even a video later about how link kind of sucks. And despite him being a named character is largely kind of nothing in the game, and would have much rather played as.... anyone else. And he's still there because he's " Link " but how much meaning does that hold really , when he can reincarnate into anything... like a woman for example
Well, yeah of course Jesus is gonna show up because the game is heavily based on Gnosticism. It's kind of like a conspiracy theory version of Christianity.
Oh yeah, she's a charismatic and well-written character, fitting for a central part of the story around rebellion and politics. Though I'm kinda disappointed when I noticed that her in-game model doesn't match the concept art.I'm playing through Battletech on PC and just have to say how much I love Kamea Arano. Not only is she a well-written character, but her design is a breath of fresh air. I can't stop looking for slits in her clothes that reveal skin on her torso, thighs....but there's nothing!
You can use Gnosticism as a story base without resorting to Robot Waifu Mary Magdalene or "Bishounen Space Jesus here is the Real Jesus" cheese.
The same people that cry that Link can't be a woman cause he is an established character with his own personality are the same people that will turn around and scream that you can't give him voice acting and dialogue cause hes supposed to be a stand in for the player. It's such disingenuous crap.
My short time in BotW just left me wondering why Link is even a thing anymore. Either give him an actual character I can care about or give me customization and let me be the character I want to be.
This is exactly how I feel, but the reason I want to make a thread/ Video on it is because a character points out how valueless link is, and he's right. He's 100% right, how valueless link is as a premise, and i'm with you let me make my own link.
Or anyone who might be reading this thread who may or may not work at a company, The first one of you all to make BOTW with a character creator. Infnite money , that's free
Nah the gameplay loop is mad different
It would be like 1 player monster hunter with dungeons and an anime art style.
And I want that, Give me
What a shitshow that is indeed. -_- I tried talking some sense into them, might as well talk to a wall.
I think it's the head / helmet, it's way too small to house a person's head.
I quite like the Silent from Slay the Spire. The least sexualized bandage trope I've seen. She's also dark skinned and badass looking.
Slay the Spire has been in my wishlist forever (waiting for the Switch version and probably a sale). This is the only character I knew about, and I never knew it's a woman, that's super cool and indeed indicative of a character devoid of sexualization or many other sexist tropes (a playable female "dark" character that isn't a succubus, seductress or titninja? You can probably count them on of one hand's fingers).
*cough* sorry, I mean "NOT FEMININE ENOUGH! Does the artist know she's a woman?!" etc. *rolleyes*
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I was a big fan of Xenosaga back in the day, and I always liked the first one better because, while the 3rd one is widely regarded as the best entry mechanically, the sequels took the narrative established by the first entry in a weird direction. Like, I'm fine with having religious themes in video games, but to the point where one of your party members was secretly Jesus Christ all along? Whaaat.
Also, look what they did to Shion.
First game:
Third game:
EDIT: fixed image
Also, look what they did to Shion.
First game:
Third game:
EDIT: fixed image
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All this talk about P5 and Xenosaga has made me realize that I have (and haven't for a long time) no interest in Japanese made games because of all the blatant objectification of women in these game.
I'm not going to act like Western made game are a paragon in this regard but at least it seems like they're trying to do better (or at the very least they know how to hide it better). With every major Japanese game release they might as well put a big neon sign around every female character that says "Please jerk off to this!".
It really sucks seeing this side of the industry go completely off the deep end and knowing that they may never come back. Oh well.
I'm not going to act like Western made game are a paragon in this regard but at least it seems like they're trying to do better (or at the very least they know how to hide it better). With every major Japanese game release they might as well put a big neon sign around every female character that says "Please jerk off to this!".
It really sucks seeing this side of the industry go completely off the deep end and knowing that they may never come back. Oh well.
Thankfully, the third game gave you her original outfit if you had a save file from the second (I think?).
Sadly, that didn't help Kosmos.
Sadly, that didn't help Kosmos.
I think a lot of that is because Japanese devs are focused on the otaku market, since that's where the money is (hence why gacha games are so infested with waifus).
It looks like for one game, she was cured of anime disease before relapsing...Her design from the second game was the best:
They designed the second game to try and appeal to a Western audience, hilariously enough - and it failed so hard they went scarpering back into the Anime Zone for the last one.
Yeah. Wouldn't say any of the designs are good, the second is the least offensive, while the yellow/purple outfit is the most distinctive but that's mostly because of the eye-searing color palette.
Good thing Monolith Soft learned their lesson from their crappy designs!
(If learning one's lessons means to regress to the mind of a horny teenager.)
For as much as I want to like asian video game character design, so much of it is just exasperating and exhausting. In a word, it's lazy, and it's actively getting worse.
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Watching movies with the girlfriend and a trailer for a low budget CG movie came up. I thought it was funny that all the characters are drawn in a rather cartoony exggarated style, expect the female lead who's drawn closer to a more realism and comventially attractive.
The price to pay for pants.
Even KOS-MOS looked slightly better in 2:
Still has issues of course, but she looks more like an android and no chest laser. (from what I remember)
Yep, we got one good design for a woman character in XC2...and like 20 really really bad ones.
This was always awful, even with the question of, "Why design a combat android to look this way?" normally associated with the character not really applying here. First time I've ever seen anyone say anything positive about that look. Xenosaga had been full of misfires design-wise, Shion's Ep. II look being decent.The price to pay for pants.
Even KOS-MOS looked slightly better in 2:
Still has issues of course, but she looks more like an android and no chest laser. (from what I remember)
And even she is undermined throughout the game.
I know there's a lot of talk about how video games aren't for people who are getting older, but I think it's that video games with bigger budgets are now being targeted with a laser focus at a single audience - male teenagers. And it's clear that's being exploited, for reasons I'm not sure about. I don't think the video game playing audience is shrinking. If anything it's getting larger. But the problem is that the industry isn't looking anywhere else and they're now lamenting how competitive it is when most markets are still not being served, even now. Cutting out all demographics that aren't 13-18 CIS males is of course going to make selling something more difficult.
The game industry made this hole and instead of trying to escape they just continue to double down. -_-
Yar, I honestly really like the first and even the second games. They have this dry, subtler approach to character arc that I rarely find in JRPGs, and I think they build up mystery and set up plot really well. I feel that the third game, despite its bombasticism, resolves a lot of things in very unexciting ways.
Regardless of its missteps, though, the series actually dared to give Shion a lover and even showed them sleeping together. I appreciate them for that.
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While I consider this preferable to her Ep. I look and the one she got in the latter portion of Ep. III, at the same time I can't deny that there's a level of exposure intended to make her more desirable for consumers to ogle rather than falling in line with something that would make sense for a weapon.
Pretty much the consequence of developer infighting leading to lots of things being changed and rearranged even before that game, along with the intended series length being cut in half.
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