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Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
- OT
That's the ending of Sly 3, which was supposed to be the ultimate end of the series.
Basically the whole gist of the plot is that he's realized he's been an idiot playing cops and robbers because he's too scared to sit down and interact with Carmelita as an adult and wants to give up thievery to be with her. Then he gets conked on the head so Carmelita tells him he's actually her cop partner, and then in the final scene it's revealed he's faking it.
This is obviously super effed up in any realistic circumstance.
I was a teen when the 1st Sly came out...guess I'm getting old.=p
I got the collection and Sly 4 this year but I will be on the look out for it when I play them.
Just wanted to say in this thread that I know Morrigan is stepping down as a mod but I always thought you did a great job representing this community and I've always appreciated your posts, especially in this thread. Just wanted to say that as I know there's a lot of shit being flung at the moment.
Wasn't aware of this.. I'd like to echo that sentiment as well.
I hadn't heard about that until this post (though I have now looked into it). Morrigan is such an important member of this community. Hopefully she doesn't peace out completely. I don't think the mods handle everything brilliantly, but I do think they keep this place running better than nearly every other video game forum online. I think the mods have earned some level of understanding for that. It doesn't surprise me when mods step down, it is clearly a pretty thankless job.
From what I'm seeing in the Media Create thread, someone important in SalesEra got permanently banned for criticizing a mod off site(not gaf). When it was revealed 2 mods do that too to regular members with impunity , the thread just exploded. It's just a shame it came to this and that it was Morrigan. Hopefully things get mended.
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He pretends to have amnesia, then Carmelita uses the opportunity to tell him he's her cop partner.
It's a pretty terrible look for both characters, since it's mutual deceiving (although only one is getting truly deceived) At least the sequel undoes that among all the other questionable shit it introduces.
I can't help but feel people are reading way too much into this. I always saw it as two characters who wanted to have a relationship but couldn't because Sly was on the wrong side of the law and when the opportunity arose to start over fresh. they both took it. The sequel by the different studio was awful on a multitude of levels.
Haha well I am feeling that way as well. Dark Souls is now 10 years old... snakegettingold.gif
The Sly games are still fun though problematic these days. Sly 4 makes things much worse though. It goes even further than one would expect.
I have hopes that the next game is toning it down as Sony's games these days are much better at handling characters.
Well put.
Please keep bugging us Morrigan, you're always a great read!
That is awesome, I just looked up some mod attempts at voicing her as well, certainly not the best but maybe one day.Was planning on replaying Fallen Order soon and decided to look up mods and uh...
realitycanbewhateveriwant.gif
I love the actor, story, and all that but there's a timeline out there where we hypothetically got this instead and that would've been really great to see because looking back on SW games there's a really discernible lack of women leads especially outside of the obscure titles.
I was wondering if this would make its way in here. Cage deserves to get dragged for his portrayal of women just like Kojima.
Oof, yeah it's all coming back to me now. I thought it was creepy even back in the day. Seems like Sucker Punch have matured past that kind of shit for the most part.
[Kotaku] Uncovering The Real History Of The Women Who Pioneered Video Games
https://kotaku.com/uncovering-the-real-history-of-the-women-who-pioneered-1847718451 This is a great profile of games writer Mary Kenney, who has recently worked on games like Spider-Man: Miles Morales, The Walking Dead: The Final Season, and a bunch of other Restera favourites, and her...
www.resetera.com
Surprised that the 'controlling the monster' dance part of the trailer she still had her clothes.
I'm actually curious if this even is Bayonetta?
I thought Dragon-demon was on her shit list after 2?
Have you watched the new Bayonetta 3 trailer?
I think she didn't get naked this time! And the camera didn't zoom on her ass! I can't believe it!
I think she didn't get naked this time! And the camera didn't zoom on her ass! I can't believe it!
Other than the one ass shot there was a distinct lack of extreme close ups on t and a in this trailer. She also appears to have a skirt?
Wondering if it's a prequel, with Bayo having Cereza-esue hair. Not sure what to make of her new design, it's so beautiful in some areas, but makes her look a bit childish in others.
And no Hellena Taylor! whyyyyyyy They've tried to voice match her anyway, why not just cast her?
Positives with new trailer: not getting naked to summon and no objectifying camera pans. Sigh. Monkey's paw!
I don't want to get my hopes up because it was barely a teaser, but... I think I'm actually hyped for Bayonetta 3 now!
I love the fact that she seems to be as charming and confident as ever even though she didn't get naked this time, which proves that fanservice is completely unnecessary because her ass isn't part of her character.
Seriously, this brief trailer was a huge improvement IMO. If the final product remains like this, I may finally stop considering Bayonetta a problematic female character.
I find hilarious how Project Eve tries so hard to be "the new Bayonetta" even though it doesn't get why people love her. This trailer just proved that Bayonetta doesn't need to be naked to be cool!
Bayonetta is confident about herself while the character in Project Eve is lacking that.
I was watching the Direct with my friends and when it became clear that it was Bayonetta 3 (the f*cking Astral Chain fakeout fooled everyone) we all exploded.
We were flying over the moon for at least half an hour rewatching the trailer, commenting stuff about the train segment, the spider and generally joking around about the presentation being redeemed and that the reason they didn't show the final Smash character was that Bayonetta 3 would have overshadowed that announcement.
We were disappointed by the recasting, someone pointed out how appropriate it was for Bayonetta to return on bi visibility day, we discussed the new hairstyle and the magical girl outfit, we laughed at the Snake-like "kept you waiting" self aware memetic line and reenacted some iconic lines from the games. It's been a really long time since a trailer excited all of us in such a way, maybe the Everyone is Here Smash trailer was at that level.
Needless to say we are big fans of the character, with a friend of mine going so far as to call her "one of my three role models".
And you know what a group of fans like us, going over a trailer multiple times and gushing over Bayonetta for half an hour failed to notice?
What only other posters on Era made me realize?
That she didn't get naked when summoning. I didn't even realize that was a thing. I was too busy being euphoric with my friends and thinking about how much I love the games.
So from today onwards if some sequel tones down the sexualization of a character, or some remastered, or whatever, and some chud complains that they are "alienating the TRUE FANS, to pander to people who won't even buy the games" you have direct evidence that the TRUE FANS don't give a flying f*ck. You can call me as a witness if needed.
As for myself, this change can only make me happy. I can't deny that Bayonetta games are and will always be sexual, but it doesn't mean that she has to be sexualized. Okay Nintendo, you have proved that you are no longer a company just for kids, so will you instead be a company for adults and not for horny teenagers? Thank you.
And to be honest if this trailer is reflective of the entire game we can point out to Bayo 3 vs Bayo 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses vs Fates and conclude that they are getting better about this. Now fingers crossed for Xenoblade 3, that's the big one that can make or break this positive change of direction.
We were flying over the moon for at least half an hour rewatching the trailer, commenting stuff about the train segment, the spider and generally joking around about the presentation being redeemed and that the reason they didn't show the final Smash character was that Bayonetta 3 would have overshadowed that announcement.
We were disappointed by the recasting, someone pointed out how appropriate it was for Bayonetta to return on bi visibility day, we discussed the new hairstyle and the magical girl outfit, we laughed at the Snake-like "kept you waiting" self aware memetic line and reenacted some iconic lines from the games. It's been a really long time since a trailer excited all of us in such a way, maybe the Everyone is Here Smash trailer was at that level.
Needless to say we are big fans of the character, with a friend of mine going so far as to call her "one of my three role models".
And you know what a group of fans like us, going over a trailer multiple times and gushing over Bayonetta for half an hour failed to notice?
What only other posters on Era made me realize?
That she didn't get naked when summoning. I didn't even realize that was a thing. I was too busy being euphoric with my friends and thinking about how much I love the games.
So from today onwards if some sequel tones down the sexualization of a character, or some remastered, or whatever, and some chud complains that they are "alienating the TRUE FANS, to pander to people who won't even buy the games" you have direct evidence that the TRUE FANS don't give a flying f*ck. You can call me as a witness if needed.
As for myself, this change can only make me happy. I can't deny that Bayonetta games are and will always be sexual, but it doesn't mean that she has to be sexualized. Okay Nintendo, you have proved that you are no longer a company just for kids, so will you instead be a company for adults and not for horny teenagers? Thank you.
And to be honest if this trailer is reflective of the entire game we can point out to Bayo 3 vs Bayo 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses vs Fates and conclude that they are getting better about this. Now fingers crossed for Xenoblade 3, that's the big one that can make or break this positive change of direction.
Did you and your friends have any observations about her dancing, particularly in the foreground during the kaiju fights? I knew Bayo had the moves before, but to my not too familiar eyes it seemed like this iteration takes inspiration from different concepts of fashion and style than before.
Oh yes, definitely new dances which doesn't come at a surprise to be honest. They are part of the reason why I call this iteration the magical girl Bayonetta.
The magical girl costume flourishes with the wings and skirt, not to mention that hair, definitely give the impression of an alt/younger Bayo.
That teaser and the drama with the VA just scream MGS5 recast story spoilers
That teaser and the drama with the VA just scream MGS5 recast story spoilers
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Aside from the game looking like a late gen PS3/360 game at a decent resolution, I don't have much of a take on Bayonetta 3. I cannot get into character action games for the life of me.
Meanwhile, Yoko Taro being Yoko Taro as usual:
Taken from that new card game.
while I played and loved the demo and will enjoy the game, i will say i didn't notice her boobs were out until seeing this picture on its own. I. Wow. thats uh. thats something alright.
Just started Persona 5 Strikers and I'm just so incredibly disappointed in Sophia's design.
I haven't played all that much yet, but I love her character so far (I've always enjoyed the "A.I. trying to become more human" types). But this look is just ridiculous. Thigh-high socks, skirt that covers nothing, (and as a "bonus" it flares up in the back, making it so that you get a 2B style flashing every time you play as her), and she just so happens to have a typically "sassy" battle stance despite literally being an artificial intelligence that knows nothing about humanity.
Somebody please save us from horny character designers.
I haven't played all that much yet, but I love her character so far (I've always enjoyed the "A.I. trying to become more human" types). But this look is just ridiculous. Thigh-high socks, skirt that covers nothing, (and as a "bonus" it flares up in the back, making it so that you get a 2B style flashing every time you play as her), and she just so happens to have a typically "sassy" battle stance despite literally being an artificial intelligence that knows nothing about humanity.
Somebody please save us from horny character designers.
So is this confirmation that Bayonetta is still gonna get naked for certain attacks?
It's still the same thing though, both fictional sexualized women, said sexualization being spearheaded by men. Also Bayonetta has already shoved her crotch in the camera's face in previous games just like Project Eve girl. Confidence or not, it's embarrassing.
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Ugh, well there goes my confidence in this game again. That tweet sounds like Bayonetta *will* get naked after all. I hope I'm wrong, but... they have yet to earn my trust.
I guess it was too good to be true. Of course they will end up sexualizing Bayonetta because God forbids game devs not being horny teenagers. And they still fail to realize why it is a problem, seeing how they joke about it.
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I wouldn't take Kamiya's twitter post to mean much because he's nothing but a troll online. His post likely means nothing even if it does happen anyway
I think the bigger concern is that Nintendo demanded the trailer be decent for the Direct and the actual game will revert to the same old
I think the bigger concern is that Nintendo demanded the trailer be decent for the Direct and the actual game will revert to the same old
Was my first thought as well. BUT, the glowing tattoo stuff has me conflicted, maybe that's replaced the hair summoning? Or was that always there?
Like, we all know that the reason this Bayonetta is less sexualized in not only look but also how she moves and dances is pretty clearly because that is not the same Bayonetta from the previous games right? That dress and that hairstyle, plus the fact the summons are not made out of her hair, and a different voice actress, it just screams this is the Cereza girl from the first game, probably as an adult now (but still keeping the same child-like look).
Without commenting on the story itself, I think the same logic should apply to the link between story and sexualisation.
What I mean is that if "story" (or lore or whatever) is not a valid excuse for sexualised design, then it's not an excuse either for toned down sexualisation.
If they had wanted to keep a similarly sexualised design for Bayo, they'd have done so.
I... don't know what you mean with that. I don't think it's an excuse to change how a design it's approached when it's heavily implied this is a different character.
Maybe I'm not clear sorry
That this is a different character or not doesn't change the fact that the protagonist/face of the marketing for this new game has a design that's less sexualised.
A sexualised design is a sexualised design, whether there is a lore justification for it or not doesn't change that.
And the same is true for the opposite. A toned down design is toned down design. The story justification behind it doesn't matter.
Right. It doesn't change the critique but it can change the context, that being that if this is a different character, it's very possible the Bayonetta from previous games could show up and have a design more in line with what we saw before, which would make this new design philosophy less of a new direction overall for the game.
I'll admit I will be a bit salty if this isn't the case because this new Bayonetta really lacks the mature charm that was the whole point of her character. She looks like an idol, and I don't dislike the aesthetic, but it doesn't fit with what we've seen of Bayonetta before. That wouldn't be a problem if it's a different character though.
Ah, ok, I see what you mean.
Yeah I'm not familiar enough with the IP to know how this will go
They are telling you design comes first and story justification comes second (the Thermian argument). If they wanted to have a sexualized design, they would, regardless of who she actually is; and the opposite is also true.
I think it deserves to be dragged far more if you take cultural context and trajectory into account. I can't think of many Western devs that are nearly as continuously and unrepentantly sleazy in the treatment of women as he is, whereas Kojima seems to at least be dialing it down from what I know of Death Stranding (without having played it, at least).
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