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Why women criticise sexualised character designs | OT3 | "make her look more...corpulent, more stuffed where the eyes can't escape."

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Sesha

Sesha

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Oct 25, 2017
9,907
DMC6 and FFXVII better overcorrect and have women and people of color playable and do important shit. Would be nice with some trans chars too, but I might as well ask for the moon at that point. I'd say RE9 too, but I'm pretty sure it'll star a returning male char.

Are there any big or long-running franchises that will or might pivot and star a woman or person of color for their next entry? Gears already has with Gears 5, so I'm looking forward to 6 as I enjoyed 5 a fair bit. Then there's TLOU2 and Uncharted: The Lost Legacy. Bonus points to TLL for having two women of color. Would be nice to have Freya or Angrboda playable in whatever the next God of War thing is. I'm bummed that Merrin isn't playable in Jedi Survivor. I'd rather have that than 5 underdeveloped combat stances.
 
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Paroni

Paroni

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Dec 17, 2020
3,549
Sesha said:
Are there any big or long-running franchises that will or might pivot and star a woman or person of color for their next entry?
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In 2021 Hugo Martin of Id Software talked about possibility of playable woman Slayer in new Doom games and claims they had already discussed it internally, but he thinks that her being a woman should "meaningfully impact the gameplay" in form of her weapons, glory kills and fighting style whatever it actually means.
www.videogameschronicle.com

Doom Eternal director says he’s put ‘a lot of thought’ into adding a female Slayer | VGC

Hugo Martin wants potential new protagonist to have a new fighting style…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
26,278
Tbilisi, Georgia
Paroni said:
In 2021 Hugo Martin of Id Software talked about possibility of playable woman Slayer in new Doom games and claims they had already discussed it internally, but he thinks that her being a woman should "meaningfully impact the gameplay" in form of her weapons, glory kills and fighting style whatever it actually means.
www.videogameschronicle.com

Doom Eternal director says he’s put ‘a lot of thought’ into adding a female Slayer | VGC

Hugo Martin wants potential new protagonist to have a new fighting style…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com
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Oh sweet Jesus Christ that is gonna cause a chud apocalypse

Like, near-TLOUII levels.
 
Jamesac68

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,467
Paroni said:
In 2021 Hugo Martin of Id Software talked about possibility of playable woman Slayer in new Doom games and claims they had already discussed it internally, but he thinks that her being a woman should "meaningfully impact the gameplay" in form of her weapons, glory kills and fighting style whatever it actually means.
www.videogameschronicle.com

Doom Eternal director says he’s put ‘a lot of thought’ into adding a female Slayer | VGC

Hugo Martin wants potential new protagonist to have a new fighting style…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com
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Skin-tight armor that, just like the illustration, leaves her midriff exposed and her melee weapon is a thorn whip, duh.
 
Sesha

Sesha

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sander VF said:
Oh sweet Jesus Christ that is gonna cause a chud apocalypse

Like, near-TLOUII levels.
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I looked for the source of that fanart and managed to stumble upon a video from two years ago about some chudmuffin crying about that comment.

Also has a video complaining about a review, and I think I know exactly which one. I discovered it a couple months ago and there were hundreds of comments, mostly chuds being chuds.

So yeah, they'd definitely go apeshit if we got a female Doom Slayer.
 
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
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Oct 28, 2017
21,700
São Paulo - Brazil
We already have a female slayer!

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Roliq

Roliq

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Sep 23, 2018
6,289
ClickyCal' said:
Her as well

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One of the things that i notice and pisses me off is that the same people who bitch about "wokeness" when newer female characters do something cool or are protagonists don't bitch when legacy female characters do the same exact thing, is like if existing before they began to spout culture war bullshit makes them "one of the good ones"
 
QisTopTier

QisTopTier

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Oct 25, 2017
13,743
Sander VF said:
Oh sweet Jesus Christ that is gonna cause a chud apocalypse

Like, near-TLOUII levels.
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Not even lol TLOU2 had a very obvious reason for its shit storm on top of standard issues and your standard assholes making it worse, now if the doom slayer died and was replaced out of no where then yeah, if she was an alternative move set with different weapon mods and traits people would eat it up, doom 2016 and eternal are all about flexing creativity and giving a whole extra box of creative fun would be a positive to fans not a negative.

it's looked on more fondly these days but MGS2 caused a pretty big stink back in the day for the switcheroo
 

pigeonsteeltoes

Member
Aug 29, 2020
15
crienne said:
I haven't gotten to Endwalker yet so maybe there's a retcon or something, but (Shadowbringers spoiler) I'm still mad about Minfilia's death.
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I tend to associate that one with ARR/HW since she was gone for such a long time, but now that you mention it, they definitely could have ended that differently. Maybe I should adjust my original point: "they no longer permanently kill of prominent male characters, even when it would make sense in the narrative".
 
yap

yap

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,033
Sesha said:
DMC6 and FFXVII better overcorrect and have women and people of color playable and do important shit. Would be nice with some trans chars too, but I might as well as for the moon at that point. I'd say RE9 too, but I'm pretty sure it'll star a returning char.

Are there any big or long-running franchises that will or might pivot and star a woman or person of color for their next entry? Gears already has with Gears 5, so I'm looking forward to 6 as I enjoyed 5 a fair bit. Then there's TLOU2 and Uncharted: The Lost Legacy. Bonus points to TLL for having two women of color. Would be nice to have Freya or Angrboda playable in whatever the next God of War thing is. I'm bummed that Merrin isn't playable in Jedi Survivor. I'd rather have that than 5 underdeveloped combat stances.
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I haven't played it so hopefully someone can answer more accurately, but I was under the impression Rivet from the newest Ratchet and Clank played a huge role in the story and might be the star in a future game(?) Again, I don't know but it's currently only the big, long-running series I can think of, aside from the ones you listed, that might do that.
 
Sesha

Sesha

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Oct 25, 2017
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Oh yeah, Rivet. Definitely.

I just thought of another one. We already know GTA6 will have a female lead. Tho that series has already done multiple leads, so it's not much of a pivot. So it doesn't make me feel like throwing a parade, but it's still nice.
 
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SofNascimento

SofNascimento

cursed
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Oct 28, 2017
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Thinking of GTA and female leads made me wonder about companies/devs/IPs that been around for a while but never made a game with a female lead. Id for example, all their shooters had male leads? FPS is probably the genre with the least women on the role of protagonists. Rockstar? GTA6 would be the first? Kojima?

Not to say anyone is forced to make a game with any particular lead, but it's just something I think about. Remedy for example took a long time, but Jesse Faden is GOAT-tier.
 
Messofanego

Messofanego

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Oct 25, 2017
26,624
UK
Paroni said:
GTA1 actually had a selectable protagonist, out of which half were women. Since then it has been sausage fest though, and I don't think GTA1 had any protagonist dialogue so it didn't really make much difference except seeing the portrait in menus.
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Also, there was Annie Stoakes in Red Dead Revolver.
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A lot of long established developers didn't have female protagonists until recently. Ubisoft, for example (lol).
 
Metalsnakezero

Metalsnakezero

Member
Apr 13, 2018
2,049
From the wild lands of Brooklyn
Been playing Honkai Star rails

Same level of Genshin, interesting characters, double standard with designs.

Main female is pretty good. Plain normal clothing. I do roll my eyes on the heels

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March 7th (Name came from the day she was found in a block of ice)

Typical cute character who is endearing due to her funny lines and always looking for something cheerful to say.
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Himeko, mentor of the group.
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crienne

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,322
Skirts and slits, slits and skirts. That's all I ever see when looking at these games (yes I'm being a bit hyperbolic).

I'd be more okay with the first one's skirt if it didn't have that slit and blue garter or thighband or whatever it is. Actually more okay with the heels than I am the skirt.

The second character's thighband is ridiculous and I don't like the blue shirt (?) tied under chest in a way that seems to accentuate her bust.

The third is whatever. At this point I feel like I've seen this type of design way too many times, even though I can't speak to a specific instance of it. The coat/cloak also seems to defy logic in its construction.

They do all seem perfectly designed for maximum gacha goodness though, as shitty as that sounds.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
118,010
crienne said:
I'd be more okay with the first one's skirt if it didn't have that slit and blue garter or thighband or whatever it is. Actually more okay with the heels than I am the skirt.
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I didn't even notice the skirt slit until you pointed it out. Why is it even designed like that (I mean I KNOW WHY), but why would someone willingly wear a skirt with a bite taken out of it like that?
 
Alek

Alek

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Oct 28, 2017
8,531
How do people feel about Merin in Fallen Survivor? I think she's cool.

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RecLib

RecLib

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Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Is Honkai the kind of cheap game where every single woman is going to have identical run animations, therefor if one is in heels they all have to be in heels?
 
ConVito

ConVito

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Oct 16, 2018
3,115
Alek said:
How do people feel about Merin in Fallen Survivor? I think she's cool.

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I like her new design, and Survivor has a lot of others I like too among those you can recruit to your little settlement/pub.

Toa the scholar/explorer (maybe archeologist?)
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Mosey the stable wrangler
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Not a female character, but there's also the nonbinary Ashe, which I appreciate
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Alek

Alek

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Oct 28, 2017
8,531
I actually skipped the first game so she's mostly new to me. Can't really comment on her old design.

BossAttack said:
I maintain that the game would be better with her as the protagonist. But Cal has improved a bit. Merrin is just cool.
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I mentioned in the OT a moment ago that I'd love a standalone expansion with her as the lead character. I like Cal too but she's a great character and I'd love to play as her.
 
Amnixia

Amnixia

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The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,498
pigeonsteeltoes said:
I tend to associate that one with ARR/HW since she was gone for such a long time, but now that you mention it, they definitely could have ended that differently. Maybe I should adjust my original point: "they no longer permanently kill of prominent male characters, even when it would make sense in the narrative".
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on the good side sure, on the bad side the Emperor, Zenos, Lahabrea and Emet all died
 
Rae

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,039
One day gacha female characters will find a pair of pants that fit in the future.
 
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OP
Persephone

Persephone

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Oct 25, 2017
4,608
Been playing FF7 Remake lately and while I like it overall I could do without 1) the weird anime mannerisms for female characters that never match with what they're saying and 2) every single woman thirsting over Cloud.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
118,010
Persephone said:
Been playing FF7 Remake lately and while I like it overall I could do without 1) the weird anime mannerisms for female characters that never match with what they're saying and 2) every single woman thirsting over Cloud.
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I really wish Square's animation team would get over having all their women bob their heads around like pigeons when they talk. I've never seen a real person move their head the way Tifa, Jessie and Iris do. It's like a weird animation holdover from the days when games didn't have facial animation or voice acting that feels completely wrong on realistically-proportioned models with detailed facial meshes.
 
Raftina

Raftina

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Jun 27, 2020
3,801
RecLib said:
Is Honkai the kind of cheap game where every single woman is going to have identical run animations, therefor if one is in heels they all have to be in heels?
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No. Honkai Star Rail has 5 different heights for female characters. From tallest to shortest: Protagonist, tall, medium, short, child. The short category has 3 characters in heels and 2 who are not (but all 5 use the same jogging and running animations). The children, of course, use different animations altogether.
 
cheesekao

cheesekao

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,837
Raftina said:
No. Honkai Star Rail has 5 different heights for female characters. From tallest to shortest: Protagonist, tall, medium, short, child. The short category has 3 characters in heels and 2 who are not (but all 5 use the same jogging and running animations). The children, of course, use different animations altogether.
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Every single non child character in Star Rail has heels, which isn't exactly a good look.
 
Metalsnakezero

Metalsnakezero

Member
Apr 13, 2018
2,049
From the wild lands of Brooklyn
Rae said:
One day gacha female characters will find a pair of pants that fit in the future.
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With genshin/honkai star rail it dress, skirt, or shorts.

More on Star rail characters

Asta - Deep Space Observer. Head of Herta Space Station. The big sister type, specially to Arlan.

Character_Asta_Game.png

One aspect of her design is about the messy nature of being in a office job. The other is the typical female design.

Herta - master of the eponymous Herta Space Station and only physical appearance is a a doll

Character_Herta_Game.png
Fun character given her witty dialogue.
 
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crienne

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,322
More skirts, more heels, more pigeon toes, and more clothes with odd designs around the shoulders/upper arms. Definitely not my type of thing, but more power to you (the universal you) if you enjoy it. Clearly it works to get people to spend more money on rolls.
 
Metalsnakezero

Metalsnakezero

Member
Apr 13, 2018
2,049
From the wild lands of Brooklyn
crienne said:
More skirts, more heels, more pigeon toes, and more clothes with odd designs around the shoulders/upper arms. Definitely not my type of thing, but more power to you (the universal you) if you enjoy it. Clearly it works to get people to spend more money on rolls.
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The pigeon toes was a real huh moment when it was brough up with Genshin and how all the female characters had it.
 
grand

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,415
Mezentine said:
Its absolutely everywhere, and it's easily one of my most disliked modern design tropes
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That's because it's a recursive trope. Women are portrayed with pigeon toes in media to appear more docile, feminine & infantile. Which in turn influences women & girls in real life to mimic what they see in media to appear more feminine. Which then results in even more portrayals in media and ect, ect, ect. And scholarly commentary and articles on it go back to the 1980s.

Which certainly isn't to excuse the trope or anything. But rather that it's probably more akin to tropes such as "women must always smile" that are persevering in media & real life.
 
Rae

Rae

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Mar 7, 2019
1,039
grand said:
That's because it's a recursive trope. Women are portrayed with pigeon toes in media to appear more docile, feminine & infantile. Which in turn influences women & girls in real life to mimic what they see in media to appear more feminine. Which then results in even more portrayals in media and ect, ect, ect. And scholarly commentary and articles on it go back to the 1980s.

Which certainly isn't to excuse the trope or anything. But rather that it's probably more akin to tropes such as "women must always smile" that are persevering in media & real life.
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I used to think strange men asking women to smile was not a thing IRL until someone just demanded I smile because of reasons. I just wanted to eat my meal in peace too.
 
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