Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,332
Currently taking the Wuthering Waves plunge and... the character designs have the same issues the rest of the game has when it comes to trying to compete with Genshin versus what that actually means and how they succeed.

There's always room for improvement and Genshin's character designs certainly have that. WuWa's character models are definitely more detailed, but what would have been great to see is more diversity with body shapes, outfit silhouettes and styles the characters represent. Instead, the characters are even more blatantly color-coded in accordance with their personality, not just their elements and the female characters especially have the same general silhouette for all of their outfits.

I get very little personality from their designs as any uniqueness is held back by the developers' decisions to pander to a specific audience the same way and this also extends to your interactions with them in unfortunate ways. Do they really think the way to beat Genshin is by having every single female character be thoroughly invested in the male character and more jiggle physics?

It's just been a really unfortunate experience so far. I won't say I don't welcome appealing character designs, but I feel like the character designs show so much disdain for what there is to like about female characters in general.
I think it's really difficult to stray from the typical female designs in gacha games because the primary spending audience has so much sway. I watched a Moon Channel video about it and unless you hit critical mass popularity like Genshin, it's safer to capitulate to their demands else the impact to profit is too extreme.

Semi-related, Wuthering Heights silly physics:
 

ventuno

Member
Nov 11, 2019
2,358
I think it's really difficult to stray from the typical female designs in gacha games because the primary spending audience has so much sway. I watched a Moon Channel video about it and unless you hit critical mass popularity like Genshin, it's safer to capitulate to their demands else the impact to profit is too extreme.

Semi-related, Wuthering Heights silly physics:

Limbus Company as an example is an interesting choice as it has lost a sizeable chunk of its fanbase because they prioritized incels through Vellmori's firing, hurting the game's reputation in the process as well. The game isn't at risk of closure now, but there have been increased monetizations tactics built into the game and their revenue estimates have generally plateau'd beneath what it used to be prior to the Vellmori incident.

If we're talking about buying power, there are plenty of games that do pretty well because they either cater to a wider audience or do not cater to incels at all. I'll use the Sensor Tower results from last month here as an example. Love and Deepspace has been one of the top revenue owners since its launch - it is a sci-fi dating sim with combat elements. Ensemble Stars is an extremely popular game that caters to joseimuke audiences. Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail have done so well because its most popular characters are liked across the board. While not on the list here, it's been years of Sandalphon's enduring popularity and he's since received mulltiple alternate units in a game with literal hundreds of characters, a telltale sign of popularity.

I take issue to Wuthering Waves narrowing the scope of who they want to appeal to not just because it's off-putting to me, not just because it's not in line with evidence that all kinds of players will support your game if you embrace more of them, but because I feel that in their attempts to compete with Genshin, they've taken several steps back in how Genshin caters to its audience, as weak as their efforts may be.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,927
Yea. It's pretty generic gacha in regards to that.

Kuro does add some more sexualized men then most, but still too few and far between for it to even remotely be considered "equality", e.g.:

1rfspt6.png

GOYwfu7bgAAY9v0

I think the worst in WuWa is when you ride elevators though...the breasts go so insane it's not possible to NOT laugh.
The tiny progress of equality ~

At least gacha devs (outside of otome games) are finally understanding people besides straight men have money to burn and want sexy male characters. For example, Boothill has consistently haunted my FYP since the leak, mainly because women/people-who-love-fictional-men have been feral for him. If Boothill wasn't a cyborg he would be the sluttiest man in the game.
Look at him
Honkai-Star-Rail-Boothill-splash-art-1.jpg

image0.jpg

The man even has the underboob crop top
Honkai-Star-Rail-Boothill-1.jpg
 

Lengualo

Member
May 14, 2022
552
UK/Mexico
Is this game basically just another, dystopian tech sci fi. Where we can panty shot the character? I've always been put off playing Nier because of the extreme creepiness of people being so into 2B. Stellar blade gives me the same vibe. I get so many video recommendations all the time cluttering up my YouTube feed and I've never watched any of them.

Tbh, its a real shame because its actually a decent game which is sullied by the cringe outfits and Eves lack of development.

Further frustrating is that they invested resources into those outfits, which are polished as fuck, and the jiggle physics which are utterly shite anyway, when I have a bucket list of things I would like for them to have done better. Like the AI-like NPC dialogues in Xion (some of them say absolute shite), more gameplay loop variety, deeper build customisation, better dodging, better movement mechanics for the parkour gameplay.

But I guess thats usually the case when the director is more interested in sating their hornyness than the quality of the finished product.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,550
See Matt McMuscles posted today a video called the "The weird/gross world of fighting game magazine ads!", much of it is him being pervy and say how good ads that are just sex jokes or images of sexualized fighting game character's breasts like Mai from KOF, Sofia from Battle Arena Toshinden etc (which he always zooms in on)... God I really wish the fighting game scene had more personalities that weren't pervy weird like that. Really makes that how part of the fandom very unwelcoming when it becomes clear they don't really respect women.
 

Edalyn

Member
Jan 15, 2023
117
Washington
See Matt McMuscles posted today a video called the "The weird/gross world of fighting game magazine ads!", much of it is him being pervy and say how good ads that are just sex jokes or images of sexualized fighting game character's breasts like Mai from KOF, Sofia from Battle Arena Toshinden etc (which he always zooms in on)... God I really wish the fighting game scene had more personalities that weren't pervy weird like that. Really makes that how part of the fandom very unwelcoming when it becomes clear they don't really respect women.
I'm sorry, I used to watch Matt with my partner but after he said man hands in one of his videos I had enough and haven't watched him since :/

But you're right, we need way more diversity of voices in the fighting game space.
Hell just fighting games that don't objectify and sexualize us while you beat the shit out of us would be a great start.

Or hey gender parity.
Anywhere? Anyone?
Nobody wants to try 50/50 gender split, they are all fucking cowards.

We are just now getting pants for some girls in the genre, the bar is so incredibly low. 😮‍💨
 

Saito Hikari

Member
Jul 3, 2021
2,989
The tiny progress of equality ~

At least gacha devs (outside of otome games) are finally understanding people besides straight men have money to burn and want sexy male characters. For example, Boothill has consistently haunted my FYP since the leak, mainly because women/people-who-love-fictional-men have been feral for him. If Boothill wasn't a cyborg he would be the sluttiest man in the game.
Look at him
It also helps that Boothill is genuinely funny. A lot of the Penacony characters speak in riddles with hidden agendas behind them, while Boothill is VERY straightforward. He even has a universal translator device that had been tampered with, changing swear words like 'Son of a bitch' to 'Son of a nice lady'. I think HSR does a great job at selling characters based on their personality on top of their designs, I'd argue it's a huge reason why they hit it big compared to most other turn based gacha.

When footage of his (unfinished) ultimate leaked, I had considered pulling him for that alone. So much personality behind it, not to mention the sheer meme potential.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5T7z4vBiY

Also, HSR has done a lot to be more universally appealing compared to most other gacha. The male : female character ratio is about equal, and it seems like the game is staying on that course for the foreseeable future, even having the confidence to run two new male characters back to back while most other gacha have like 1 or 2 per year.
 
Last edited:

ImaPlayThis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,334
See Matt McMuscles posted today a video called the "The weird/gross world of fighting game magazine ads!", much of it is him being pervy and say how good ads that are just sex jokes or images of sexualized fighting game character's breasts like Mai from KOF, Sofia from Battle Arena Toshinden etc (which he always zooms in on)... God I really wish the fighting game scene had more personalities that weren't pervy weird like that. Really makes that how part of the fandom very unwelcoming when it becomes clear they don't really respect women.

Oh my god, don't get me started on Matt McMuscles, I hate him so much and so much of his content is low quality garbage AND he's very frequently wrong in his videos, especially about basic stuff that could be corrected with a 5 second google search. I can't stand his videos and even interesting ones are a chore to sit through, like I even tried to watch that podcast max and justin started with him but couldn't stand it primarily because of him... (he's also completely unfunny)

I've not heard of nor seen that particular video but based on your description it very much feels like the low tier, unfunny garbage he produces and the fact the video is titled that and that's the contents of the video it is giving me that jack whitehall you people disgust me meme vibes.

What's most disappointing about this is that there is a real need to be having this conversation in the FGC, the sexualisation of women in fighting games is just way too OTT and their is an issue with how marketing and adverts have depicted this for decades but people in the community only give a shit about it if it's DOA (an easy punching bag I know) but it's a far more prevalent issue which in itself could have made for an interesting an insightful video but nope if your description is accurate he just decided to show breasts and go "hehehe breasts". It's not just magazine ads either we could go on about how many youtubers for instance (like top hat gaming man) who'll use sexualised images for fighting game characters in his thumbnails as clickbait to get people to watch his videos

Anyway enough of my mini-rant, this topic just really irks me, I even wrote my dissertation on it it bothers me so much
 

Sesha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,955
I'm sorry, I used to watch Matt with my partner but after he said man hands in one of his videos I had enough and haven't watched him since :/

But you're right, we need way more diversity of voices in the fighting game space.
Hell just fighting games that don't objectify and sexualize us while you beat the shit out of us would be a great start.

Or hey gender parity.
Anywhere? Anyone?
Nobody wants to try 50/50 gender split, they are all fucking cowards.

We are just now getting pants for some girls in the genre, the bar is so incredibly low. 😮‍💨

Even 60/40 or just improving somewhat on the previous game seems too much too ask. At best there's like, one or two more female chars in a sequel. Or in MK1's case, one or two less.
 

Love Machine

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,323
Tokyo, Japan
As a fighting game fan, I agree we need higher quality and more mature discourse to make these games and communities better. There's lots of potential for continual improvement, and we've already seen increased diversity in recent years, but it's going to be a long uphill struggle.

It's tough because even with the more mature and highly respected voices, they'll see something blatantly pandering and just sort of laugh it off, or turn a blind eye to it. Like, it's fine if they're above that, but it's still an issue that permeates these games that goes largely unchecked and underdeveloped.

I know it's a lot to ask content creators, etc. (the ones worth caring about), because a lot of the times their communities will be full of people who are...stubborn (to put it politely) about the portrayal of women in games in general, and they don't want to bleed subscribers or whatever. But it'd be amazing to have somebody with clout standing up for this stuff and making a case that could make people start questioning the way they think, and how they perceive women.

Even before the content creation/community stage, we need developers being more bold and standing up for progress. There are always going to be annoyingly loud voices that disagree or call you "woke" or whatever, but I feel these are dwindling in number and only getting weaker the more small steps we take.
 

Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,870
If we're talking about buying power, there are plenty of games that do pretty well because they either cater to a wider audience or do not cater to incels at all. I'll use the Sensor Tower results from last month here as an example. Love and Deepspace has been one of the top revenue owners since its launch - it is a sci-fi dating sim with combat elements. Ensemble Stars is an extremely popular game that caters to joseimuke audiences. Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail have done so well because its most popular characters are liked across the board. While not on the list here, it's been years of Sandalphon's enduring popularity and he's since received mulltiple alternate units in a game with literal hundreds of characters, a telltale sign of popularity.

I take issue to Wuthering Waves narrowing the scope of who they want to appeal to not just because it's off-putting to me, not just because it's not in line with evidence that all kinds of players will support your game if you embrace more of them, but because I feel that in their attempts to compete with Genshin, they've taken several steps back in how Genshin caters to its audience, as weak as their efforts may be.
There is a 36kr article about the phenomenon in China called "don't play if there are men". The site 36kr is a Chinese site for publishing market analysis and business insights, and this writer is a special invited guest, so it is a bit more reliable than the plethora of blogs floating on the web in China.

The article points out a few things:
1. There is a vocal but still significant contingent of men who boycott, review-bomb, and smear games for having male playable characters, or male characters in general, in 2-D games (essentially a shorthand for anime graphic style games).
2. The majority of men who play bishojo games do not really care, but they say nothing because they are there for the cute girls, and no male playable characters means more cute games.
3. Games and content in the 2-D space targeting women are not going away, because developers and publishers have already released games and content targeting women and found high business potential there.
4. Instead, the industry is likely going to see increasing fragmentation, with games for a general audience reserved for high budget games targeted toward an enormous audience (like Genshin).
5. Smaller games are likely going to be targeting men or women specifically.

The upside of this is that we are likely to see more games like Love and Deepspace and Infinity Nikki, targeted toward women specifically but with traditional gameplay instead of the more stereotypical "for women" gameplay. The downsides are that attempts to make general games like Genshin and Arknights are probably going to be rarer, and that games targeting men are probably going to be more hostile toward women. The latter phenomenon is likely going to be more subtle compared to 5+ years ago because of government crackdown on sexualized content, but developers get around it pretty easily. For example, skintight black silk is very common in Chinese gacha because of a soft ban on showing too much skin, so black silk is now shorthand for softcore in online slang.
 
Mar 7, 2020
3,144
USA
There is a 36kr article about the phenomenon in China called "don't play if there are men". The site 36kr is a Chinese site for publishing market analysis and business insights, and this writer is a special invited guest, so it is a bit more reliable than the plethora of blogs floating on the web in China.

The article points out a few things:
1. There is a vocal but still significant contingent of men who boycott, review-bomb, and smear games for having male playable characters, or male characters in general, in 2-D games (essentially a shorthand for anime graphic style games).
2. The majority of men who play bishojo games do not really care, but they say nothing because they are there for the cute girls, and no male playable characters means more cute games.
3. Games and content in the 2-D space targeting women are not going away, because developers and publishers have already released games and content targeting women and found high business potential there.
4. Instead, the industry is likely going to see increasing fragmentation, with games for a general audience reserved for high budget games targeted toward an enormous audience (like Genshin).
5. Smaller games are likely going to be targeting men or women specifically.

The upside of this is that we are likely to see more games like Love and Deepspace and Infinity Nikki, targeted toward women specifically but with traditional gameplay instead of the more stereotypical "for women" gameplay. The downsides are that attempts to make general games like Genshin and Arknights are probably going to be rarer, and that games targeting men are probably going to be more hostile toward women. The latter phenomenon is likely going to be more subtle compared to 5+ years ago because of government crackdown on sexualized content, but developers get around it pretty easily. For example, skintight black silk is very common in Chinese gacha because of a soft ban on showing too much skin, so black silk is now shorthand for softcore in online slang.

so the incels will just be playing their harem games, while everyone else play the normal games with a mixed cast of male, female and ects?
 

Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,870
so the incels will just be playing their harem games, while everyone else play the normal games with a mixed cast of male, female and ects?
The article predicts fragmentation of 2-D games to cater to specific niches, so I assume it would different sets of games for men, women, incels, fujos, etc. It even mentions that games might cater to specific fetishes. In the short term, I suspect this is true, but the budget escalation in games will probably drive consolidation and more games toward general audiences. My guess (and hope) is that the new consolidate games arise more from developers targeting women, because Chinese women are more accepting of cute girls and yuri in games than the reverse for men, so games targeting women have a systematic advantage in being able to draw in a general audience without alienating their core audience.
 

ventuno

Member
Nov 11, 2019
2,358
There is a 36kr article about the phenomenon in China called "don't play if there are men". The site 36kr is a Chinese site for publishing market analysis and business insights, and this writer is a special invited guest, so it is a bit more reliable than the plethora of blogs floating on the web in China.

The article points out a few things:
1. There is a vocal but still significant contingent of men who boycott, review-bomb, and smear games for having male playable characters, or male characters in general, in 2-D games (essentially a shorthand for anime graphic style games).
2. The majority of men who play bishojo games do not really care, but they say nothing because they are there for the cute girls, and no male playable characters means more cute games.
3. Games and content in the 2-D space targeting women are not going away, because developers and publishers have already released games and content targeting women and found high business potential there.
4. Instead, the industry is likely going to see increasing fragmentation, with games for a general audience reserved for high budget games targeted toward an enormous audience (like Genshin).
5. Smaller games are likely going to be targeting men or women specifically.

The upside of this is that we are likely to see more games like Love and Deepspace and Infinity Nikki, targeted toward women specifically but with traditional gameplay instead of the more stereotypical "for women" gameplay. The downsides are that attempts to make general games like Genshin and Arknights are probably going to be rarer, and that games targeting men are probably going to be more hostile toward women. The latter phenomenon is likely going to be more subtle compared to 5+ years ago because of government crackdown on sexualized content, but developers get around it pretty easily. For example, skintight black silk is very common in Chinese gacha because of a soft ban on showing too much skin, so black silk is now shorthand for softcore in online slang.

Thanks for the insight and added context! My experiences with WuWa and evidence this article outlines is just added incentive to be a bit more picky about what games I support in the future, not just because of the hostility towards women (and interests that are assumed to be "female"), but quite simply because money talks.

I don't think that games catering to audiences that aren't specifically cishet men is a bad thing as it's fine to recognize other players, but joseimuke games have their own set of community infighting, like yume, or self-insert players, being at odd with fujoshi and fudanshi over a game that caters to everyone. Similar to Genshin, Arknights and HSR, the most popular joseimuke titles usually cater to a broader scope of players - Twisted Wonderland and Ensemble Stars are prime examples of this.
 

BearBobomb

Member
Jun 3, 2022
1,438
Earth
See Matt McMuscles posted today a video called the "The weird/gross world of fighting game magazine ads!", much of it is him being pervy and say how good ads that are just sex jokes or images of sexualized fighting game character's breasts like Mai from KOF, Sofia from Battle Arena Toshinden etc (which he always zooms in on)... God I really wish the fighting game scene had more personalities that weren't pervy weird like that. Really makes that how part of the fandom very unwelcoming when it becomes clear they don't really respect women.
I don't wanna be too defensive of someone i've never met but is it possible to call someone a respectful horndog? (that sounds worse typing out than in my head lol) Not saying that attitude makes it easier from someone getting into a community or that the FGC doesn't inherently has a problem with it, Matt just seems like a pretty good person
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
I don't wanna be too defensive of someone i've never met but is it possible to call someone a respectful horndog? Not saying that attitude makes it easier from someone getting into a community or that the FGC inherently has a problem with it, Matt just seems like a pretty good person
You can be someone that is seemingly a generally good person, and still also misogynistic.
 

Malakym

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2019
372
That's definitely true, just in his case I don't know if misogynistic is a fair read

I mean dude constantly professes his love for Poison, yet he's not above describing a female character as having "man hands" so maybe we shouldn't be ascribing virtue to people that - like you said - we don't personally know.
 

BearBobomb

Member
Jun 3, 2022
1,438
Earth
I mean dude constantly professes his love for Poison, yet he's not above describing a female character as having "man hands" so maybe we shouldn't be ascribing virtue to people that - like you said - we don't personally know.
I might be out of the loop on the context of the man hands thing and i'm not trying to ascribe virtue but I just need more receipts on someone's behavior before jumping to their a misogynist
 

Malakym

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2019
372
I might be out of the loop on the context of the man hands thing and i'm not trying to ascribe virtue but I just need more receipts on someone's behavior before jumping to their a misogynist

I'm not asking anyone to boycott the guy in protest or something, I'm relaying my experience. If me saying that I watched a video of his where he said that isn't good enough for you to believe me then that's it for us talking about this. I'm not about to go trawling through his videos from months ago just to find something that made me feel disgust for the benefit of some stranger on a forum.
 

BearBobomb

Member
Jun 3, 2022
1,438
Earth
I'm not asking anyone to boycott the guy in protest or something, I'm relaying my experience. If me saying that I watched a video of his where he said that isn't good enough for you to believe me then that's it for us talking about this. I'm not about to go trawling through his videos from months ago just to find something that made me feel disgust for the benefit of some stranger on a forum.
Didn't mean to come off as demanding or anything, sorry about that if so. I believe you I just hadn't come across anything like that so I just don't know the context
 

Malakym

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2019
372
Didn't mean to come off as demanding or anything, sorry about that if so. I believe you I just hadn't come across anything like that so I just don't know the context
The context is that a videogame lady was on the screen and he decided his audience would be amused by him describing her hands as mannish
 

Nyandeyanen

Member
Apr 16, 2024
103
I watched a Stellar Blade review from a youtuber I generally respect and while the gameplay seemed surprisingly good, they had *a lot* to say about how the story, writing and characters are just kind of a mess. They basically said that yes, the game is diet Nier with forgettable characters up until the very last act where it goes full anime. Left me with the impression that maybe the game would've been better off leaning more heavily on anime spectacle?

Was kind of disappointed that they didn't really address any of the madness surrounding the game and the character designs beyond a few quick jokes and allusions to 2B, Bayonetta and the Dead or Alive cast though. Even if you don't want to touch all the "GG 2.0" stuff surrounding that I think it's a very fair criticism towards the game to point out the weird, doll-like women and the disparity between the women and the men.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,550
Did Stellar Blade sell well? Doing a quick look say it sold a million on it's first day and sold out in Japan and then just nothing. It feels like that game suddenly just went quiet (though anything other than Helldivers 2 seems like this year it feels, even Peach Showtime :( ... PLAY IT!!!)
 
Aug 31, 2019
2,833
Did Stellar Blade sell well? Doing a quick look say it sold a million on it's first day and sold out in Japan and then just nothing. It feels like that game suddenly just went quiet (though anything other than Helldivers 2 seems like this year it feels, even Peach Showtime :( ... PLAY IT!!!)
I have read a headline that said it sold over expectations, but I didn't read any further than that
 

Keiriks

Omicron Persei 8 Logic
Member
Aug 19, 2021
6,691
Reykjavík, Iceland
They basically said that yes, the game is diet Nier with forgettable characters up until the very last act where it goes full anime. Left me with the impression that maybe the game would've been better off leaning more heavily on anime spectacle?
Absolutely. The endgame boss gauntlet is the game's tonal peak, with everything leading up to it being both derivative and toothless. Raven (spoiler character) carries the story on her back for the criminally short screentime she gets, like she's easily the single most entertaining character in the whole game and that's precisely because she embodies that campy over the top anime sensibility.
 

Nyandeyanen

Member
Apr 16, 2024
103
Absolutely. The endgame boss gauntlet is the game's tonal peak, with everything leading up to it being both derivative and toothless. Raven (spoiler character) carries the story on her back for the criminally short screentime she gets, like she's easily the single most entertaining character in the whole game and that's precisely because she embodies that campy over the top anime sensibility.
That's a shame, it sounds like it could've been pretty enjoyable if it had just leaned into the camp and spectacle like Bayonetta does. Let everyone dress skimpily and fill every fight and cutscenes with premium anime nonsense.The gameplay really looks very up my alley though (I love me some Bloodborne and Sekiro as well as Ghost of Tsushima more recently) but I'm really not sure how much of the story (and the uncanny valley/gender disparity) I could handle. At least in those three the story is very easy to ignore when I don't feel like engaging with it.

Maybe I should just finally give Nier a go? I've had a PS4 copy lying around for a while.
 

doops.

Member
Jun 3, 2020
2,827
Just posted a thread about it but DYKG (fantastic channel) just posted a new video filled with new PS2 game info that's been uncovered which includes info about some real creepy menstruation jokes that were cut from MGS2:

(SPOILERS FOR MGS2 AHEAD, FOR THOSE WHO CARE):
In the final game, there's a part where Raiden swims underwater with Emma. Nothing too unusual happens, but while they're underwater, Kojima originally wanted blood seeping out of Emma's crotch. When they surface, Raiden would ask: "Where are you hurt?" and Emma would blush and say: "Uhh, I'm fine." Later in the story, Emma's fatally stabbed by Vamp. Raiden's audibly concerned with how much blood she's losing, then she'd look up and say: "I'm fine... it's just my... period..." then let out her final breath. Those would've been her dying words. But Kojima's team all hated the idea, so all those menstrual gags got cut.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,974

Kordova

Member
Dec 10, 2023
319
Terra
Oct 25, 2017
27,042
Man...Snatcher era Kojima is still present in current Kojima. This is why his games got increasingly worse when people stopped telling him no. I can't stand that guy and his fan base for a reason.
 

coffeecat

Member
Jul 14, 2018
91
And there was a part of me that was thinking of one day maybe checking out Death Stranding to see what the fuss is all about. Oh hell no, not anymore. This misogynist jerk does not deserve a single cent.
 

Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,006
And there was a part of me that was thinking of one day maybe checking out Death Stranding to see what the fuss is all about. Oh hell no, not anymore. This misogynist jerk does not deserve a single cent.
I'm glad I got that game free. I still haven't played it yet and I'm not sure when(if ever).
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,974
It was evident with MGSIV. MGS 3 wasn't perfect, but 4 basically smacks you in the face with a baseball bat with just how off the game feels compared to the earlier games.

Right. My point was that 4 was early enough that he could squeak by on plausible deniability despite all those problems still existing in the script.

MGSV and now Death Stranding prove that this is just who he is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,042
Right. My point was that 4 was early enough that he could squeak by on plausible deniability despite all those problems still existing in the script.

MGSV and now Death Stranding prove that this is just who he is.
I think a person doesn't double look at 4 until they look into his Snatcher and Policenauts shenanigans. Once you know you look at MGS 1-3 as somebody inside Konami or his design team sneaks in hitting the delete button on some script choices when the man goes to the bathroom.