Should there be a new OT?

  • Yes

    Votes: 496 54.3%
  • No

    Votes: 417 45.7%

  • Total voters
    913
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DidactBRHU3

Member
Oct 17, 2019
3,237
Fortaleza - Ceará
I think apart from the studio closures, pretty much we are still on same roadmap that Phil had in mind back in 2020, he was wrong about the timelines though, the ABK deal was about "accelerating" his plans regarding mobile.

2022 screwed hardware sales too much and Game Pass subs tanked, so to keep up the games studios afloat, the plan to be multiplataform was created.
 

DeoGame

Member
Dec 11, 2018
5,118
Let me say this much - if you bought into the Xbox ecosystem on the promise of great exclusive games, how does this benefit you? All I keep seeing is how it benefits Sony and Nintendo players.

I've invested thousands of dollars in this platform on a vision that is being pivoted away from, and honestly, it's pretty sad. Being stuck in an ecosystem isn't a feature of the market, it's a consequence.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,930
Let me say this much - if you bought into the Xbox ecosystem on the promise of great exclusive games, how does this benefit you? All I keep seeing is how it benefits Sony and Nintendo players.

I've invested thousands of dollars in this platform on a vision that is being pivoted away from, and honestly, it's pretty sad. Being stuck in an ecosystem isn't a feature of the market, it's a consequence.
I can totally see that.

Way back when I switched to Xbox it was for the exclusives as well. Then at some point (probably around the time I had kids) it morphed into the convenience of gamepass + switching between all my devices (gaming PC, ROG Ally, Series X, and Series S). For me, nothing changes in terms of what get from this ecosystem now. In fact, I think the parts I like are going to start improving.

If I were in the same place I was back then though, I'd be bummed as well.
 

DeoGame

Member
Dec 11, 2018
5,118
I can totally see that.

Way back when I switched to Xbox it was for the exclusives as well. Then at some point (probably around the time I had kids) it morphed into the convenience of gamepass + switching between all my devices (gaming PC, ROG Ally, Series X, and Series S). For me, nothing changes in terms of what get from this ecosystem now. In fact, I think the parts I like are going to start improving.

If I were in the same place I was back then though, I'd be bummed as well.
That's quite fair. And yeah, GP is a big part of what will keep me engaged in the ecosystem, at least through to the end of the gen.
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,965
That's quite fair. And yeah, GP is a big part of what will keep me engaged in the ecosystem, at least through to the end of the gen.
What's funny is that because of the multiplatform shift, Game Pass turns from this alure into the console to instead being the only leverage Microsoft has to keep the user base from leaving said console.

Or sad. Funny and sad.
 

Check it out

Member
Oct 25, 2017
601
Microsoft would put GP on other consoles if they allowed it. Thats the reality. Microsoft is implementing their PC mindset into a sector that will not adapt this mindset quickly if ever.
 

Check it out

Member
Oct 25, 2017
601
Let me say this much - if you bought into the Xbox ecosystem on the promise of great exclusive games, how does this benefit you? All I keep seeing is how it benefits Sony and Nintendo players.

I've invested thousands of dollars in this platform on a vision that is being pivoted away from, and honestly, it's pretty sad. Being stuck in an ecosystem isn't a feature of the market, it's a consequence.
Anyone who dismisses this is closed minded or completely accepting of anything Microsoft throws at them. This is a short sighted, reactionary move being disguised as a reality we must accept. I'm not even affected personally by this. I have all major consoles and if I really wanted to I could build a high end pc tomorrow (no thanks). I just don't like the noncommittal strategy and haven't since the initial podcast announcement. I really don't trust Satya at all. I think he's a legacy obsessed megalomaniac.
 
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KodiakGTS

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,155
What's funny is that because of the multiplatform shift, Game Pass turns from this alure into the console to instead being the only leverage Microsoft has to keep the user base from leaving said console.

Or sad. Funny and sad.

It's not bad leverage though, I like saving money. I've figured my average GamePass cost so far this gen has been $9.40/month with deals, meaning $4.40/month for the games portion (since online play is $5/month anyways for Xbox/PS5). There were 25 day one games that I played significant amounts of and would have likely bought anyways, totaling $925.

So, I spent $184 dollars (or $394.80 if you want count online play costs, which is debatable since I'd have to pay those anyways, regardless of console) to play $925 worth of games this gen. My XSX has basically paid for itself.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,430
New York City
The culture of Xbox being rejected or just not enough to support a platform is a bummer. Just because there are other places to game doesn't mean that everyone would want to go to them. If you got what you wanted from Xbox, it is understandable being down about the direction things seem to be going.
 

cgpartlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
Seattle, WA
The problem though is that without a hardware platform those services will die too. Game Pass will be dead if the console is dead. Features like play anywhere only have value to me if there's a console angle. Etc.

Did I say anything about hardware? Xbox still seems pretty dedicated to making hardware. It's just probably going to be niche, but outside of the US Xbox is already niche sadly. I'll always buy an Xbox as long as they make em though
 

pg2g

Member
Dec 18, 2018
5,284
Anyone who dismisses this is closed minded or completely accepting of anything Microsoft throws at them. This is a short sighted, reactionary move being disguised as a reality we must accept. I'm not even affected personally by this. I have all major consoles and if I really wanted to I could build a high end pc tomorrow (no thanks). I just don't like the noncommittal strategy and haven't since the initial podcast announcement. I really don't trust Satya at all. I think he's a legacy obsessed megalomaniac.

Short sighted is not a term id typically use for Microsoft's decisions. Historically they make a lot of the right decisions... but with the wrong timing.

Also think Satya has been a great CEO for Microsoft.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
108,047
What's funny is that because of the multiplatform shift, Game Pass turns from this alure into the console to instead being the only leverage Microsoft has to keep the user base from leaving said console.

Or sad. Funny and sad.

Yup, once this multiplatform strategy starts bringing porting out the big hitters, all it's realistically going to be good for is keeping Xbox users in the ecosystem. If the service was already not enticing enough to get people to go to Xbox (at least not in the numbers they wanted) back when everything was still perceived as exclusive, it's certainly not going to do any better once people realize they can stick with/buy a Playstation and eventually get whatever they're missing out on.

And that's just for the exclusives that ended up coming months/a year later. If we really are going day and date in the future, then yea, even worse.

It is what it is, I'm covered for the next 3+ years, I'll enjoy the savings I get it from it for sure. But yea, certainly would've went in a direction if I knew things would turn out like this

Same, and I got the edition with the dlc. I'll get back to it eventually.

I can't wait to finally join the debate between which is better, DOOM or Eternal lol
 

Check it out

Member
Oct 25, 2017
601
Short sighted is not a term id typically use for Microsoft's decisions. Historically they make a lot of the right decisions... but with the wrong timing.
Maybe the move is the correct one in the long run ( I don't think so). The roll out is objectively bad. They let stuff leak and then lie publicly about their plans. Not having clear messaging is what is short sighted from my view. They change their plans on a dime and make it hard for a consumer to buy into a vision when it seems there isn't one. I don't trust the leadership to make good choices.
Also think Satya has been a great CEO for Microsoft.

To each their own. He's been great for investors and shareholders for sure. He is the equivalent to sentient AI in my eyes. Cannot stand listening to him. I also think he's flying too close to the sun with AI.
 
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Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
24,090
I just finished Huldufolk and now I won't be able to sleep tonight. Thanks Xbox.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
6,882
United States
Did I say anything about hardware? Xbox still seems pretty dedicated to making hardware. It's just probably going to be niche, but outside of the US Xbox is already niche sadly. I'll always buy an Xbox as long as they make em though

No, but you said they'll continue to have great services. My point was that the services will only be supported as long as there's a customer base, and once hardware is gone, most of the customer base for things like GP and Play Anywhere will be gone.
 

Vico

Member
Jan 3, 2018
6,835
I'm trying not to participate in those discussions because it doesn't matter anymore. I don't need to hope they'll still have exclusives because they won't (just 3 months ago people argued that they still would), I just kind of accepted it and I'm now just wondering what the future will look like, and where I'll go in 2026 or so, whether I go full PC, or an Xbox, or just wait for a PlayStation.
 

Shoot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,751
I will always argue that leadership was not thinking in the ways it needed to back in 2020 and that this multiplatform move is reactionary.

Back in 2018, the goal was easily to move consoles and Game Pass for the next generation. Xbox had just built One X, were in the plans to deliver not only the most powerful console next gen, but also the cheapest. They were starting an acquisition spree of multiple developers to fill out Game Pass, which everyone knew would take years to realize.

Then, Xbox goes a step further to make sure the next gen was a true global launch, releasing in nearly every territory XB1 was in, Day 1. They even built up the All Access plan to further push Game Pass with the console and getting the barrier to entry theoretically lower by going with monthly installments as opposed to upfront charges.

All of the above screams "we want to sell more consoles"

Then in late 2020, Phil Spencer does the most bonkers play imaginable. He pivots away from console to cloud. Per his own words in a leaked email:



In the pursuit of hypothetical potential in cloud, the console segment they were spending 2+ years on growing was shafted. Phil's own thought process was they could sell millions more if they had the supply, but that it wasn't the "right thing".

I say this is bonkers because this one single move cost Xbox millions of new users during the pandemic that would either give up on buying a console due to lack of availability or bought a PS5 because that was more available. Then in 2023, we find out xcloud was a failure in attracting new users, its primary use being to play games on Xbox consoles. Instead of the hypothetical millions of users they might have gotten from the cloud over a 3 year span, they instead got none? And instead of millions of near guaranteed pandemic console sales in late 2020/2021, they got none. That one single play by Phil lost out on both fronts, an absolute fail. I'd even argue it's worse than the 2013 debacle because it was such an unforced error. Imagine 2017 Xbox saying no to an immediate +10M console sales. How many game sales, sub sales, accessory sales, MTX sales were lost because of that blunder. At least 2013 Xbox had an excuse, they were arrogant on Xbox 360 ego. 2020 Phil Spencer was on one.

Then you have Starfield. A single game that did actually move consoles and Game Pass subs at launch. This ONE GAME they released didn't help reverse momentum 3 years into the generation, a generation Xbox had more or less sat out of, and because of that release, leadership panics into multiplatform releases? The idea that the low point Xbox was in back in 2022/2023 would be reversed immediately because of Starfield was never realistic. They screwed up 2 years, they would need at least that many to recover within the same generation.

But I guess that's the problem at the end of the day. The speed of recovery. Microsoft are not going to let Xbox take big financial hits for years like in the XB1 days, with drastic price cuts, insane bundles, insane third party deals with the biggest IP, and do not want to wait even more years for software exclusives to make a return on investment. Instead, they are taking the easiest route possible to make more money in the short term, which is releasing games on competing platforms. And once they've rationalized that move, the next is obvious. Long term, every game needs to be multiplatform. Maximize the money.

It's a transition because of another unforced error by leadership that needs to responded to in the most "we give up" way possible. Why spend resources on fixing issues with your platform/brand when you can offload them onto other platforms. Just had to vent a bit about Xbox.

Shinobi, thanks for giving your opinion/read of Xbox today, it's appreciated.
Peter Moore: First to 10 million units wins

Phil Spencer: Selling more consoles at launch isn't the right thing for our business.

🤦‍♂️
 

Ash_Greytree

Member
Oct 31, 2023
531
Some good news: The marketing blitz for Hellblade 2 seems to be on. Every ad break I'm getting on Twitch tonight, one of the ads has always been one for Hellblade 2.
 

Sr Kitsune

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,043
Baja California, Mexico

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
2,393
I think there's a baseline that'll always be there - 20, 30, 40'ish million users. I know some are scared wondering 'what's going to happen to my digital library?' and all the money they've invested into Xbox. I've invested a lot into the platform myself. Been on there since the first Xbox. But I don't see any path that Microsoft takes that will just erase all of that. Just not going to happen.
This is just pure fantasy. We see the collapse happening in real time, current Xbox One owners who didn't suckered in already will overwhelmingly go elsewhere. Next gen that happens with everyone.

I don't understand the desire for "realism" when it comes to Xbox going full multi-platform but when it comes to consequences we might as well be reading CS Lewis.
 

Shoot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,751
Stab him in the heart!

He has no heart!

Hellblade 2 is much better than the first game. The graphics are CGI.
 

happy2501

Member
Jan 12, 2024
584
It's crazy, I don't know what did they change on the POI generation side. I started a new game after the patch and I think I got more hooked than last year. I think it helps a lot that I know exactly what kind of game Starfield is now. So I can just have fun

The game is so fun, even now exploration feels 10x better from launch (and i loved the game in launch) and if land vehicles deliver good as well as creation kit, it will fight with Avowed for GOTY for me as well (hopefully)
 

Mr Evil 37

Member
Mar 7, 2022
12,748
Some good news: The marketing blitz for Hellblade 2 seems to be on. Every ad break I'm getting on Twitch tonight, one of the ads has always been one for Hellblade 2.
I posted about it in here already but I saw an ad for Hellblade in front of Furiosa at the cinema yesterday and I continue to see ads daily on all my social media.

The no marketing narrative is a complete myth.
 

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
2,393
Stab him in the heart!

He has no heart!

Hellblade 2 is much better than the first game. The graphics are CGI.
I think I have a whole album of just hand photos. The faces are obviously next level, but the hands truly blew my mind. I've never seen anything close to that level of detail in a video game before.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,870
May be naive but I think NT is safe. They created maybe the best looking game of all time with very advanced tech. MS probably cares about that more than the critical darling HFR.

I don't think NT is safe. Hellblade 2 completely bombed on Steam (even worse than Redfall and Forza Motorsport. And 5 day later, it already collapsed at the #63 spot in the Top Sellers charts). In the Most Played Charts on console, it's debuting at the same spot (#30) as Hi-Fi RUSH despite the latter being shadowdropped and an unknown IP. Hellblade probably cost more to develop too considering it was released at $50. Bleeding Edge also was a huge failure.

And Bloomberg said that more cuts were planned. They let go Toys for Bob at Activision (after massive layoffs), fired one third of Sledgehammer staff (layoffs at Infinity Ward too), fired hundreds of people on Blizzard side, closed almost half of Bethesda studios, laid off people at BGS but so far XGS seem to have been spared outside of 343 Industries 1.5 year ago.

Since they closed Tango Gameworks, we know Xbox doesn't care the slightest if the studio made a GOTY-caliber game or a bad game. Even the reasons they gave don't make any sense (not having a team big enough to manage 9 studios at the same time or whatever). So everything is possible with these clowns.
 
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jungius

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Sep 5, 2021
2,738
I didn't really mean it like that, just that I was approaching it in a non-biased way. But maybe 'objective' wasn't quite right so I'll fix that.


The sentiment was that it feels like GP has kind of gotten a lot of the userbase used to not buying games. To be clear it's from some people I've talked to at a couple publishers, so not an all-encompassing study or anything. But that's the way it was framed to me.

everytime I want to buy AAA games from EA and UBI Im reclutant those will come on gamepass sooner or later so I wait. It happened with dead space, jedi survivor and wild hearts. I bought soul hackers 2 too and it appeared on gamepass 4 month later when it still in my backlogs 😂

so yeah im used to not being game

I don't think NT is safe. Hellblade 2 completely bombed on Steam (even worse than Redfall and Forza Motorsport. And 5 day later, it already collapsed at the #63 spot in the Top Sellers charts). In the Most Played Charts on console, it's debuting at the same spot (#30) as Hi-Fi RUSH despite the latter being shadowdropped and an unknown IP. Hellblade probably cost more to develop too considering it was released at $50. Bleeding Edge also was a huge failure.

And Bloomberg said that more cuts were planned. They let go Toys for Bob at Activision (after massive layoffs), fired one third of Sledgehammer staff (layoffs at Infinity Ward too), fired hundreds of people on Blizzard side, closed almost half of Bethesda studios, laid off people at BGS but so far XGS seem to have been spared outside of 343 Industries 1.5 year ago.

Since they closed Tango Gameworks, we know Xbox doesn't care the slightest if the studio made a GOTY-caliber game or a bad game. Even the reasons they gave don't make any sense (not having a team big enough to manage 9 studios at the same time or whatever). So everything is possible with these clowns.

yeah theoritical ninja at this point is most potential candidate if they need another cut
 

Mr Evil 37

Member
Mar 7, 2022
12,748
I just don't care, im new to the system but Xbox is dying for like past 15 yrs so we'll see. I believe my library will be secured and there is 35 studios that make day one free AAA titles for me.
I'm not new to the system but I agree completely. Xbox has been "dying" for at least the last decade if not more and it didn't happen. Them going third party has been talked about since Xbox One and it didn't happen. People were calling it dead before it even came out and throughout the nascent OG generation and it's still here 20+ years later.

People in here or wherever else can share their (perfectly valid) predictions with as much confidence and assurance as they like, but that's all they are, predictions. Not guarantees, not certainties, not inevitabilities. No one ACTUALLY knows what's going to happen, least of all people on the outside who are not in the room where these decisions are being made, and least of all people who express their opinions as if they are indisputable fact.

No one can predict the future. So let's just wait and see what happens and in the meantime enjoy the many great video games we have to look forward to, and if people hate Xbox now or have lost confidence, they are free to leave the ecosystem at any time they wish.
 

Mr Evil 37

Member
Mar 7, 2022
12,748
everytime I want to buy AAA games from EA and UBI Im reclutant those will come on gamepass sooner or later so I wait. It happened with dead space, jedi survivor and wild hearts. I bought soul hackers 2 too and it appeared on gamepass 4 month later when it still in my backlogs 😂

so yeah im used to not being game



yeah theoritical ninja at this point is most potential candidate if they need another cut
I mean EA are a special case because we KNOW those games will come to Game Pass 6-12 months after launch. So one should always make purchases with that in mind. There's no way in hell I wasn't going to play Jedi or Dead Space (or Dragon Age soon) at launch so I'm perfectly happy preordering these on Xbox even though I know they'll be on Game Pass (and also I want to support big singleplayer games).
 

Fortinbras

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,673
I don't think NT is safe. Hellblade 2 completely bombed on Steam (even worse than Redfall and Forza Motorsport. And 5 day later, it already collapsed at the #63 spot in the Top Sellers charts). In the Most Played Charts on console, it's debuting at the same spot (#30) as Hi-Fi RUSH despite the latter being shadowdropped and an unknown IP. Hellblade probably cost more to develop too considering it was released at $50. Bleeding Edge also was a huge failure.

And Bloomberg said that more cuts were planned. They let go Toys for Bob at Activision (after massive layoffs), fired one third of Sledgehammer staff (layoffs at Infinity Ward too), fired hundreds of people on Blizzard side, closed almost half of Bethesda studios, laid off people at BGS but so far XGS seem to have been spared outside of 343 Industries 1.5 year ago.

Since they closed Tango Gameworks, we know Xbox doesn't care the slightest if the studio made a GOTY-caliber game or a bad game. Even the reasons they gave don't make any sense (not having a team big enough to manage 9 studios at the same time or whatever). So everything is possible with these clowns.
Ninja Theory should be kept around for their technical expertise. They can always improve existing and develop new technologies and share those with other Xbox studios.

Unfortunately Microsoft does not seem to care about any of that (or any other artistic element in general when it comes to their gaming ambitions).
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,498
I'm not new to the system but I agree completely. Xbox has been "dying" for at least the last decade if not more and it didn't happen. Them going third party has been talked about since Xbox One and it didn't happen. People were calling it dead before it even came out and throughout the nascent OG generation and it's still here 20+ years later.

People in here or wherever else can share their (perfectly valid) predictions with as much confidence and assurance as they like, but that's all they are, predictions. Not guarantees, not certainties, not inevitabilities. No one ACTUALLY knows what's going to happen, least of all people on the outside who are not in the room where these decisions are being made, and least of all people who express their opinions as if they are indisputable fact.

No one can predict the future. So let's just wait and see what happens and in the meantime enjoy the many great video games we have to look forward to, and if people hate Xbox now or have lost confidence, they are free to leave the ecosystem at any time they wish.

This is another thing that bothers me, this whole mantra that Xbox is a dying brand on every other damn article and thread since Xbox One, hell even the red ring days of 360.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,425
Let me say this much - if you bought into the Xbox ecosystem on the promise of great exclusive games, how does this benefit you? All I keep seeing is how it benefits Sony and Nintendo players.

I've invested thousands of dollars in this platform on a vision that is being pivoted away from, and honestly, it's pretty sad. Being stuck in an ecosystem isn't a feature of the market, it's a consequence.

Yes, and this is the promise they made to Xbox players since 2018, and it absolutely meant exclusive games. They have hardly delivered on that with the kind of games that people expected. I think my main takeaway is that starting acquisitions in 2018 was too late for a comeback. It needed to happen in 2014-15 or even in the late 360 era. Saying the multiplat stuff is a "strategy shift" is really understating reality. And let's recap their first party to say they've tried everything. Halo Infinite? Launches a year late and not with the new console, with a still non-existing multiplayer pipeline. Starfield? Launches a year late, is hyped up to the extreme, but is just a good game, not another BGS classic. Forza Horizon is great and so is Game Pass. Most other projects were fun but they're simply not what would make people buy an Xbox. Their hardware strategy with cloud was terrible, they even raised prices of their hardware and they delivered an absolute stinker with Redfall. Most other big projects are yet to be seen in 2024, while Hellblade II is a graphical stunner, but ultimately the same limited scope as the first game. If this all they tried to convince new users to come to Xbox, then they didn't do good enough. They have good hardware and services, but the games pipeline still just isn't there, and now it's too late, apparently.
 
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DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,619
This is another thing that bothers me, this whole mantra that Xbox is a dying brand on every other damn article and thread since Xbox One, hell even the red ring days of 360.
it definitely has been insanely overplayed for years lmao
and for sites that are supposed to be about journalism you would think that like idk...they would contribute to the conversation and not just regurgitate what dog shit they see on twitter lmao
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,217
"Coming in due time" leads me to believe Clockwork Revolution is still a while away. Maybe 2026.
 

Sipahi

Member
Jan 30, 2021
584
Dont think we see clockwork. We already got a gameplay reveal and if its late 2025/26 there would be not much else to show. I see this show as more focusing on updates for the games announced in 2020 and 2021.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,461
"Coming in due time" leads me to believe Clockwork Revolution is still a while away. Maybe 2026.

Just mathing out the schedules, 2024 marks 4 years since Wasteland 3 shipped as well as Frostpoint VR, which were the last two projects inxile worked on. August and November, respectively.

They did DLC work on Wasteland 3, with 2 expansions coming out in 2021.

So they would be doing early work in 2020, and probably moved the bulk of the team onto it in late 2021 when Wasteland 3 DLC finished up. Some time in 2025 would be around 4.5-5.5 years of total development, depending on when in the year it theoretically released.

2026 or beyond would say to me that the development might have been a bit rocky or that they had maybe some competing pitches for a while. Not unprecedented at Xbox studios, certainly.
 
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