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Forge continues to be incredible.
View: https://twitter.com/Frenchyssss/status/1623418641638363137
View: https://twitter.com/storyboardben/status/1624113684535738369
View: https://twitter.com/Infiniteforges/status/1623148625290199042
View: https://twitter.com/Stephen_Flaco/status/1624051327234965512
awesome!
Why the regret? What do you think is the worst that could happen?
Xbox is the one successful consumer product that has endured all the mismanagement of the company over the last 20 years. They're not going to bury it overnight just because they were stupid enough to hire 40,000 people in two years because everyone else around them was doing it, chasing the dream of endless growth during the height of the pandemic, when people were forced to use their shit, and then coming to the realisation that life out there doesn't work like that, and oops, things are back to "normal" now. It's time for the human sacrifice to appease the Gods of Wall Street by needlessly firing 10,000 people instead of doing literally anything else, because that's also something everyone else around them is doing. At least they were super nice and generous about it. Anyway! Forget about the people who were responsible for these decisions, time to go back to trying to spend 69 billion dollars on a shitass one-note publisher, which people now have to pretend they like because of the potential brand association.
So, no need to worry about the doom and gloom. Xbox is going to be fine. Yes, they fired a lot of people and made their lives miserable for a while, but it's important to remember that they also hired way more people than they fired and most studios weren't affected, as far as we know, because there's still a shortage of workers in those fields. Games are still coming, money is still being spent, and some budgets may or may not be cut because everyone, including the competition, is bracing for a recession that is or isn't already here. But rest assured, they're not going to Windows Media Center/Home Server/Windows Mobile/KIN/Windows Phone/Lumia/Zune/MSN Messenger/Microsoft Band/Kinect the Xbox brand, even if it sometimes looks like that from the outside. It's just normal, everyday business at a close to 2 trillion dollar company. 👍
Everyday business at a close to 2 trillion dollar company is shutting down underperforming subsidiaries without a second thought. We're lucky that Satya is CEO and he does seem to want gaming to succeed but what happens if Xbox continues on its current path of losing market share while expenses have only increased due to the number of the studios under their belt?
I think right now Xbox is in a tough spot and they might be a tougher spot than they were at the start of gen just because PS5's momentum only seems to be getting stronger. Especially with PS5's rumored standard digital console which will likely have the standard PS5 $50-$100 cheaper than the Xbox Series X.
Maybe it is indeed blown out of proportion and the real story is just that consumers don't care for Series S and they want Series X consoles but there is a supply shortage. Maybe it is the case that casuals haven't upgraded to next gen yet which is when we'd see the Series S boom. Those would be ideal.
I doubt they'll cut off Xbox this generation but if they're not able to turn it around before next gen, I'm honestly not sure if there'll be a next gen.
Weirdly negative of you! You are normally telling me off for being the negative one :P
Xbox will be fine. Every console manufacturer goes through periods of uncertainty. It wasn't that long ago when a bunch of well liked people left playstation and Japan Studios closed down. And then there was the whole stuff with Nintendo and the Wii-U. It happens to everyone at various points.
having said that, that is why I have embraced PC now :P It doesn't matter to me if one of the consoles has a quiet/tough year!
This is where I'm at. A new CEO could change everything. If Steve Ballmer was still CEO after Xbox One I think we'd be done. If the shareholders have had enough were done. Sony and Nintendo live and die by their gaming branches. Microsoft doesn't. You can't treat Microsoft like the other two. I don't think Xbox is going anywhere but out of the 3 it's the only one that reasonably could.
To be fair, I've said it before but I also don't think they'd ever fully leave gaming. I think they'd just shift to being a multi-platform publisher like the software company Microsoft is. Jez was talking yesterday about how different Microsoft approaches hardware compared to more experienced hardware manufacturers like Sony, and the difference is indeed stark.
View: https://twitter.com/Odah_SFA/status/1624440080797511682
ladders are superior to escalators its not even a debate
no vrr better mean no vrr mode that unlocks fps. would hate to think it doesnt actually work with vrr the way its suppose to cus i got a feeling that game wont be running 60 fps so smoothly
VRR isnt really controlled by the game. So yeah they mean some special VRR mode.
I agree with you! I've made similar points in the past, that they're in a rough spot this generation and that it's going to take them this entire console generation to rebuild what the previous leadership destroyed in a year or two.
But Gaming is still a multi-billion dollar business within the company, contributing almost 10% of the yearly revenue to the company, iirc, right behind Windows. Of course, I'd rather talk profit per division, but I don't think they report those numbers. How investors haven't brought out the pitchforks about this is beyond me.
Anyway, it's not going to be killed, just because they went into a FOMO induced hiring frenzy and are correcting this mistake now. Growth is slowing (but still growing) because they simply didn't give consumers a reason to spend money. They haven't made a compelling argument for that, other than Game Pass. It's an issue, for sure, but not one that's being ignored.
But with all that said, I'm not going to pretend that I'm a financial expert. Xbox could go tits up tomorrow, for all I know. I see some things and try to understand them, I repeat some other things more knowledgeable people say, and that's it, really. From all of that I'd say, sure, things could be better and should be better. If we're still having the same discussion 18 months from now, then I'd say that things are gonna get dire long-term, sure. But right now, I really don't know where more revenue and growth is supposed to come from. Unless we hear that they've cancelled half their projects like Ubisoft did, I really don't see a reason to care right now.
You are correct that gaming is a huge business and Microsoft is well positioned to take advantage of that, but I just think they'd approach it as a third party publisher rather than a platform holder if console sales continue as they are. I don't think they'd cancel half of their projects even if it ever did get that dire because they could just make PlayStation and/or Nintendo versions and get their return on investment.
I have to imagine that, that's the contingency plan for Xbox if they're unable to recover from the whole hardware business thing, because pouring the amount of money they are into studios and games and limiting them to a console that is struggling and PC isn't sustainable at all. I think we're close to an infliction point where it'll give us a good idea of where Xbox is heading. If they come out swinging and have a ton of big games closer than we think, I think there is a real shot at Xbox skyrocketing again. If they continue having big gaps between blockbuster titles that are only covered by smaller, niche games than PS5 just gets stronger.
Good points! My main worry is they do a Xbox 360 maneuver where they invest a lot in the beggining and then stop having budget because of higher ups. Gaming is much bigger inside the company now, so who knows, and they are still growing (especially Game Pass, which is their main focus). Would suck to see so much potential being wasted too.
I have all consoles and a good PC, but since i work all day on front of a PC i am liking more and more to play on consoles (even though PC is still my main gaming machine) and i have been spending most of my ~third party budget on Xbox since Series X is my favorite console (ecosystem, controller, Game Pass, etc). Would suck to have to spend some of that again lol
I do have a PC, but since i work in front of it all day too i do like playing in my Xbox more and more these days.
Think i have been on this thread a bit too much, some of y'all negativity must have rubbed off on me :P
Before the recent Holiday performance of the Series S, it was being billed as a brilliant device in the face or shortages for the more expensive options.
Then this holiday rolled around, and Sony's device was pared with the release of a a highly anticipated sequel to a massively popular series, and Xbox had no real counter to that. But that won't likely be a long term issue- games will be coming in rapid succession.
While Xbox's expenses have increased- their revenues will be following suit. They have to be very pleased with Obsidians output so far- and they haven't even gotten to the heavy hitters yet. The same with Bethesda. They also have to be pleased with the performance of the games they've released on PC.
Nah, I'm pretty sure Microsoft is very much all or nothing when it comes to gaming/Xbox. They aren't going to stick around unless they're a platform holder, because that's really where the money is for them.
But really I don't see them changing their stance on being all in any time soon. They aren't able to supply enough systems right now but that'll change before to long and soon things will start to be better for the division in terms of sentiment and staying power too
View: https://youtu.be/DKKboxwKIYU
View: https://twitter.com/GrimorioG/status/1624393477487198209?t=mON-LYqjTUaV6ijkJrl8xA&s=19
Coming to Xbox too.
On another note, I'm surprised this is still a thing with physical:
View: https://twitter.com/GrimorioG/status/1624392908408340481?t=j4Zgf_J-WVw5vrQ14TbPig&s=19
Dunno why MS still got this requirement. I say that as someone who owns zero physical on Xbox since X1.
Don't let that sometimes pervasive vibe in here get you down. Big picture, Xbox prospects look pretty great.
I'm inclined to agree. I don't see any reason for Xbox to be investing in 1st party games if there's no 1st party to support. It's a sketchy business and one that doesn't really align at all with the rest of Microsoft. They're trying to EXPAND their platform not contract it, and if they lose their one fairly successful beachhead, I'm not sure why that would inspire them to invest even more heavily into the part of the business that is riskier with less margins. If Xbox is about to Sega, then Xbox is actually about to Atari.
Not to say that I'm dooming or think this is about to happen, rather I think that the platform is more durable than people say - even though I have been warning that Xbox is not bulletproof. The barrier protecting Xbox is much higher than I think people are giving it credit for - but I also think that if the wall is breached, there's not much else behind it to back it up. If Xbox the platform goes away and MS hasn't established Gaming on PC nor on mobile, then I think it's more likely that Xbox makes no games and focuses instead on middleware and providing services to developers, than that they start making games for PlayStation and Nintendo. (They probably will for a while, just by the nature of the lead times and stuff. Maybe.
Optimistic doom, I suppose.
Same. I played Psy 1 a few months ago and absolutely loved it.
I mean... hahaha. No, I actually think this makes sense for Xbox. One, it's something else that they have to manage at least a little bit (they're involved in the printing process, no?). It's not like they really depend on physical, nor does it do a whole ton for their brand (they're not the default anyway and the ones that they need disks for are not the ones struggling to hit a 10k minimum). It really doesn't make sense on a console where market share is lower and digital is already king. It does suck for those who want it. And I get the idea of "what does Xbox lose from this?" I just have to assume there are costs involved with it that we don't see.
It sucks because you have absolute gems like Hi-fi Rush digital only. Or smaller games via Kickstarter that are basically funded by hardcore fans with no physical version on Xbox (which means most would pick higher tiers like physical on Switch etc).
I get it. I hate physicals but there should be a middle ground, like doing better for 1st party games + don't punish hardcore fan pubs like Limited Run Games or something when they wanna do physicals with this requirement.
View: https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/1624468417745911809?s=20&t=i9Wuz1DpVXoRcD1oHJ4AqA
Xbox Twitter knows ball
Battletoads by Dlala was heavily under appreciated, mostly because, uh, "it doesn't look like the original" or some nonsense along those lines. The game was really good and had more character than the originals ever had.
Fantastic team, only wishing them all the best for Illusion Island. I feel like the Nintendo audience will appreciate the studios' effort more.
'rivers in the desert' has been added to my gaming soundtrack playlist, so they right!
No online coop in a global pandemic. They missed hard imo.
I mean.. a lot of people were surprised that it wasn't a brawler the whole way through. Fundamental misunderstandings all around lol.
It was a fantastic game and a lot of fun. If Battletoads had come out this year, especially after HiFi Rush, I think people would be loving it. Maybe.. haha.
Online coop is hard. Xbox maybe should have given them the budget and support to do it, though. I mean, maybe Xbox should have a middleware layer that lives in Xbox to do it system layer for all games. As long as Xbox servers are up and you pay some cheaper cost, then Xbox can use their cloud tech to do some sort of Parsec implementation where the consoles think they're playing local coop. I'm still surprised that Xbox let Parsec get snatched up by Unity, even though it is PC-based.. Eh. Oh well. No signs that they want to bring Rainway in-house either. But this might even help more games that don't find the hugest audiences stay up for longer. If you don't have to do maintenance on the servers long-term, maybe you're willing to just pay for the service even if the population is smaller.
But I suppose the experience would tend to be less good than bespoke online coop implementation? Would it, though? Iono.
How Xbox doesn't have a solution similar to Parsec is beyond me. Steam, PlayStation, and I believe even Nintendo has it for their retro games (which is why GoldenEye had "multiplayer" for Switch but not for Xbox).
Share Play? Interesting. Here's the crazy part to me: MS already has all the tech to do this. This was in Mixer!
I see now that Mixer did seem to have a similar thing, but I guess it died alongside Mixer.
While I feel more confident from 2023 onwards, if you ask me if I would bet money on Xbox being around in 15 years I wouldn't do it. With a likely scenario where this gen we will repeat a 2:1 proportion (or even higher) I can't imagine how they could turn things around when people would have 10-15 years of brand loyalty, awareness, game saves, digital games, subscriptions, online friends, and more, all attached to another system instead of Xbox.
Maybe they already know it, but I do think that Game Pass already is, and will become even bigger than Xbox: through Xcloud, PC, Xbox itself (as a mere device to Game Pass), and probably more devices that Microsoft is willing to step in (like Steam, Playstation, Nintendo.. although not feasible in the foreseen future).
A behemoth of a AAA world-class publisher with its own game library subscription and streaming service? Yeah, I can see Microsoft on that with or without Xbox.
Maybe they already know it, but I do think that Game Pass already is, and will become even bigger than Xbox: through Xcloud, PC, Xbox itself (as a mere device to Game Pass), and probably more devices that Microsoft is willing to step in (like Steam, Playstation, Nintendo.. although not feasible in the foreseen future).
A behemoth of a AAA world-class publisher with its own game library subscription and streaming service? Yeah, I can see Microsoft on that with or without Xbox.
This will only happen if Xbox can expand the ecosystem to new platforms. That's not a given - and it's even harder without a spear to break the walls to get into those ecosystems, like ABK. Yes. How does Xbox fight back against dominant competitors with all of the advantages except cash - that MS isn't even being allowed to spend lol. If Xbox can only play in this smaller pond, where it has no chance of winning, then is it worthwhile to keep spending so much money just to not have a leading platform that isn't leading to gains elsewhere that isn't really aligned with the rest of the company? Game Pass can't grow unless it's growing on the platforms it's on and/or is on platforms that are growing. Is that going to happen? Not as much as I'd have expected a few years ago. Not as much as I'd like to see. And is there even a path to do it? Even if MS owned Bethesda launcher, a revamped and good Windows Store, Battle.Net, and hell even if we gave them EGS, GOG, and Humble - they STILL wouldn't be anywhere near challenging Steam in terms of relevance. Let's all laugh about MS's chances in mobile right now.
Iono. I really don't know.
Again, the thing to remember is that Xbox IS profitable. That's because the platform makes money. Game Pass works because it supports that ecosystem. Game Pass may be profitable, but it is NOT what is making all their money. I think the wall protecting Xbox is higher than people are giving it credit for. And I think the wall can stand the test of time better than we're painting it here. But, if that wall starts eroding, why maintain Game Pass AT ALL? Why keep making games?
And you know what? All that is fine and reasonable. I'm not even dooming. This is me being optimistic lol. I do believe that this means that Microsoft is actually way more committed to Xbox than we're giving them credit for. But success is never guaranteed, even despite persistence and investment and desire. All of this is tinged with just a bit of bitterness knowing that many people (including many, not all of course, who are very concerned about the ABK acquisition) would be perfectly happy to see Xbox die. It feels like people don't appreciate what a nightmare that would be.. Meh.
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I agree on that point. The benefit of being a platform holder is that getting people into your storefront with exclusives or something like Game Pass can result in way better returns than just making money on your games individually like a third-party publisher does. I personally think Xbox shouldn't have started releasing games on PC day and date, but they were in a very different position back then.
Sorry, I put so much focus on GamePass in my post, but I believe that Microsoft would be great by being a third-party publisher as well. I mean, Xbox sure is profitable, but a major company like Microsoft is willing to expend so much to just be profitable? That's what I wonder. What market share is enough to satisfy shareholders? We spent years wondering if Nintendo wouldn't be better by being a third-party but I guess this could be a better fit for Microsoft to be honest. But I'm just throwing out some thoughts, nothing serious and by any means I want to be disrespectful.
I just don't think that made that much of a difference, really. I continue to feel that was a console war talking point, than a real issue. I don't think it actually negatively affected Xbox's market share. And I personally think it was definitely the right thing to do when they did it. Expanding ecosystems, increasing alignment with the rest of the company, reaching new customers. I think Windows let Xbox down a little bit there. Plus, as you mention, would Xbox even have survived MS leadership if they hadn't played nice with Windows?
Again, I'm actually quite positive about the future of Xbox consoles as a platform into at least the next gen (easily 10 years), still. I think that if Xbox were threatened, then the entire business is threatened. So I think MS will be more protective than we might expect.
Well, this was my point to Sullivan. Why? What's the benefit of being a third party publisher if they lose their platform? They're ALREADY a multi-platform third party publisher!! They have 5 games in the top 50 best selling of Steam, 9 in the top 100 (sometimes more, depending on where Halo and AOE fall that week). 5 Microsoft games are on the top 100 most played games by time on PlayStation. As of right now, there are 5 Microsoft games on the bestselling list of the PS5. You might be surprised to hear that they're quite different from the 5 on the most played (Outer Worlds, Wasteland 3!). You already know Minecraft is Switch's biggest 3rd party game.
And yet... Are they making a ton of money from their games? Not as much as the platform. It just.. doesn't really make sense. Nintendo as 3rd party made sense because they were the ones supporting their own platform for so long. But nowadays? 3rd party support is great on Switch! It doesn't really make sense for them to abandon their platform. And it wouldn't make sense for Xbox to either, UNLESS they were getting out of the whole game.
LOLL
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