Xbox is shutting down Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, and Alpha Dog Games. Roundhouse Studios absorbed by ZeniMax Online Studios.

[Clippy]

Days later and I'm still sad about this. All this artistry (that would have paid dividend for you as a corporation down the road) burned down callously for short term gains. So depressing.

 

[Budi]

Man, if I'm any of the people that are (or were pre-acquisition) in charge of a studio at Microsoft I'm absolutely done at this point and planning an exit strategy.

Straight up I would start talking to potential investors now about what I've got on my team and what we are capable of and proficient at. One of those people I would be talking to is Sony.

What's the worst that could happen, Microsoft folks find out and fire everyone? They're doing that anyway.

Tango team should band together and try to get bought by Sony. Double Fine should go shop themselves to everyone. Someone bites, call a meeting and say "hey I have a deal that has us bought by Sony or X and all of us go there. Just have to quit and come with us. What do you think?"

Someone out there will be wanting to make a great game for a franchise and see the opportunity to buy a great team in one shot. Strength in numbers in that sense.

After this, everyone at Microsoft working on games has to 100% believe they could get fired at any time for any reason. Provide an alternative to your team and they'll jump at it.

Click to shrink...

Playstation and Xbox both, laid off 8% of their workforce this year. And you suggest Sony acquiring more gaming studios?

 

[JODOROWSKY51]

Started reading Naomi Klein's No Logo yesterday and came across this quote. It's… well yeah.

"And so the wave of mergers in the corporate world over the last few years is a deceptive phenomenon: it only looks as if the giants, by joining forces, are getting bigger and bigger. The true key to understanding these shifts is to realize that in several crucial ways — not their profits, of course — these merged companies are actually shrinking. Their apparent bigness is simply the most effective route toward their real goal: divestment of the world of things."

 

[Outtrigger888]

The fact that Phil hasn't posted on social media or spoken about this is pretty fucked up. Dude cares more about his image than to comment and take the heat for shutting these studios.

Bethesda has been the only arm of the division that has been putting out games consistently and they got hit the hardest. Hi-fi was literally the most creative thing to come out of Xbox in a long ass time. I guess it's back to Halo,CoD,Gears and Forza for the seeable future. Can't wait…….

 

[shintoki]

Click to shrink...

That's colder than ice lol

 

[CosmicCrouton]

Might as well rename the console to Activision.

 

[Praedyth]

Keep thinking about this. Imagine having access to both Harvey Smith and John Johanas and not even hearing a new pitch from either.

Someone replied to me yesterday with a clip of Steve Jobs saying that Microsoft's problem is that they have no taste. I think they just don't understand what's considered quality in the gaming space and haven't for some time.

Click to shrink...

They and Sony are so out of touch with workplace culture. What kind of message does that send?

Sony laid off a bunch of people from their most productive studio, the message is clear: not even making successful AAAs back to back carrying the first half of PS5 generation is enough to keep you safe.

Microsoft's message was also clear, it doesn't matter if your game is a critical darling and a comercial success, we don't care if it's not a big IP.

Culture is very connected to work. It's how we know not to reinvent the wheel over each human generation. It's also how game studios become more efficient and gain their pedigree. The only company that seems to understand that is Nintendo.

 

[Clippy]

The fact that Phil hasn't posted on social media or spoken about this is pretty fucked up. Dude cares more about his image than to comment and take the heat for shutting these studios.

Bethesda has been the only arm of the division that has been putting out games consistently and they got hit the hardest. Hi-fi was literally the most creative thing to come out of Xbox in a long ass time. I guess it's back to Halo,CoD,Gears and Forza for the seeable future. Can't wait…….

Click to shrink...

I don't really want to hear from him tbh. If he says everything I want to hear, I won't believe a word of it. Talking matters if people have a reason to trust what you say, and I just don't.

 

[Gunny T Highway]

I don't really want to hear from him tbh. If he says everything I want to hear, I won't believe a word of it. Talking matters if people have a reason to trust what you say, and I just don't.

Click to shrink...

Same. Kind of like Sarah Bond yesterday, Phil will just talk around the issue or feign some sort of sympathy for those laid off. With a promise that Xbox will do better, but they won't.

 

[shoal]

Click to shrink...

amazing

 

[Kusagari]

Phil has some truly crazy hour counts in various games. Dude seems to get paid to just play video games because he's sure not managing Xbox.

 

[CannonFodder52]

I know I'm not the target consumer, but Tango and Arkane were some of the specific reasons that I was interested in the Microsoft ecosystem. There's a couple other companies like Double Fine and Obsidian too. But overall, these smaller studio's output could be a system seller for me, so it's shocking to see them just close the studios.

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

Click to shrink...

Lmao

 

[orangebalt]

Segasammy will never sell Sega after the gaming side saved Sammy's ass during the pandemic. They invested hard into resorts, gambling, etc for tourism for the Tokyo Olympics that never materialized.

Click to shrink...

God, I hope you're right.

 

[tokenflipguy]

All I have is Spiderman for Sony.
All I have is Gears,Forza, and Halo (Ok OD for me) for MS?
I am still reeling over this boneheaded decision.

 

[RexNovis]

We tried telling y'all this was unsustainable and that MS was subsidizing the losses of GamePass with the profits of other divisions. Eventually the bill would come due. It has come due and as usual it's not the people in charge who made the utterly incompetent decisions who will pay the price.

All I can say is thank heavens MS was so utterly incompetent they were unable to capitalize on their mass subsidization to capture more of the market before the walls started crumbling down on their heads.

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

My biggest conecern on the sustainability of these streaming and subscription services is how heavily they are subsidized. Eventually these companies will want to trim these into profit drivers and that will end up most likely with a severe tightening of budgets spent on games or an influx of other money making systems like MTX basically making them an absolute must especially for the smallest of projects with shorter playtimes to garner any sort of profit.

The whole model incentivizes a lot of the modern trends I dislike the most in modern gaming and I'm afraid with how heavily subsidized these subscriptions are that they will take off and eventually further erode the choice and control we have over the software we choose to play or support.

Click to shrink...

You are conflating revenue with profit. They are not the same thing. If games pass were profitable MS would be screaming it from the rooftops for their investors. The way they talk about it is absolute proof it is not profitable and of course it isn't. You can't look at what they are paying out for and then look at what people are paying them in subscription fees and think they are equivalent. They are dishing out massive amounts of money to secure content for the service as well as to buy studios and fund tons of games to put out on the service.

It's seems absolutely obvious that the current GP is a gamble that they can hopefully get a large enough audience to subscribe and then hopefully rely less on buying third party content down the road and more on just finding internally developed projects. People expecting that the value they have now will remain the same going into the future will be disappointed. This is the life phase. Once they've hooked a big enough audience they will be revising the costs they incur to ensure profitability as that is ALWAYS the end goal.

some are (rightfully imo) concerned that this will mean a shift in design that priorities supplementary revenue streams in their in house developed games. I think this is a natural shift that we will begin to see more of once the company starts to prioritize profit over increasing market share. It's a way to ensure that gaining admittance to software at low costs will not diminish the income potential of that software and imo it's a natural evolution of this sort of subscriber model.Alternatively profit could be maximized by limiting cost of software meaning projects across the board see a lower investment or slower roll outs. I'd argue we are already starting to see this with stuff like Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2 and even Halo Infinite. Either way Something will have to give to ensure profit is maximized.

Click to shrink...

Yea in my experience massive companies hate inefficiency and redundancies and seem to stamp anything resembling either out with gleeful quickness which is why this situation as described seems so bizarre to me.

Then again perhaps it's just the sign of these mergers and acquisitions happening so fast and rampantly that they seek to preserve as much of the existing structure to minimize friction and effort in their part to actually consolidate them into their management/development pipeline.

Either way, it does seem pretty realistic to expect them to trim the fat eventually. Just no way of knowing how far out that is.



You don't? I thought Disney had a splash screen ahead of Pixar films. I guess Marvel is a good example though. I don't believe there's a Disney splash ahead of marvel productions just the marvel one.

To me though that's just like a perfect representation of why all these mergers and acquisitions are getting out of hand. These big companies want to gobble up all these other brands and then can't even be bothered to fully merge them with their own company instead just assuming ownership and essentially passively absorbing all the perks therein. Sorta like a landlord buying up property. Yea they may be called into fix a problem or pay for a repair or something but for the most part they just let the cash roll in and pay off their debts for them. I guess this is just how these massive mergers are handled now though.



First off I have to say "Katamari of doom" is absolutely brilliant. Will be adding that to my lexicon.

So what I'm getting is that the desire to preserve and exploit powerful brand names is changing the way mergers are handled nowadays.

I feel like that sorta proves that these companies are buying up other sizable companies at such a pace that they basically just let them continue as a separate entities instead of properly merging them into the existing business structure is just that much more of testament to this consolidation being incredibly rushed and unsustainable.

As another mentioned above I can't see this split management structure lasting past a big downturn in spending or revenue where management will understandably look to trim out inefficiency and redundancies.

Click to shrink...

Now that subscriber counts are plateauing across all gaming subscriptions we are going to start transitioning from the growth phase to the profit maximizing phase. Expect costs to increase and spending belts to be tightened going forward across the board.

Thank heavens these services didn't grow to the point of having a stranglehold on the market at large.

Click to shrink...

The re is a major difference between these acquisitions and other major Tech acquisitions. While most tech acquisitions are focused around platforms, services or technology the recent MS acquisitions revolve around entertainment and an inherently creative driven process.

Creative driven products have to be managed in a completely different way than other tech related concerns. It's more akin to managing movie productions or book publishing. They're entirely different skill sets. Thus purchasing existing studios with existing successful products doesn't guarantee those studios will continue to release successful products. Issues with management and creative talent retention become the determining factors.

When you look at the MS has managed studios in the past it just does not seem like they understand how to properly manage that creative process well. Their answer to this with their recent acquisitions has been to essentially cede all management and control of production over to the staff that already exists at these studios/publishers. Theoretically this should work but it is also heavily dependent on keeping those key leads in play. Already we are starting to see major parties in these acquired companies leave (for example Pete Hines, various leads and heads of studios at places like Blizzard, Arkane and Tango Gameworks etc). What's more this talent retention has historically been an issue for them as well such as losing key figures like Rod Ferguson at the Coalition who, ironically enough, left to go work at Blizzard and helped them to deliver Diablo 4. Point being, if they can't retain that vital talent then that strategy just ends up collapsing.

In my opinion, the key thing to watch to give a better indication of how all these acquisitions will pan out for them will be talent retention and given their history in the industry I'm just not convinced they will be able to retain the talent they desperately need to retain to make it all work long term.

Click to shrink...

People were consistently pointing out that the revenue model would need to change or the general structure of GamePass would need to change because it didn't add up. The only way to make a service like that feasible is an extremely broad subscriber base. It's clear that was what their management was pushing for but their goals for subscribers were absurd for a service tied to a platform so they tried to broaden it with streaming to other devices but the market for a subscription service like this just isn't large enough to support the ongoing costs involved with producing, acquiring and publicizing the content for it. You can only subsidize losses for so long when the necessary subscriber base isn't manifesting

Click to shrink...

Just because they've kept it running for however many years by funding it with outside revenue does not make it sustainable. That's not what sustainable means.

You had MS PR coming out and saying it was "profitable" with no indication of what sort of costs they were factoring into that profitability calculation. For all we knew they were just saying it made more than it cost in the over head to run it and not factoring in development costs or acquisition costs.

You're right none of us are entitled to that financial info but it's pretty telling how tight lipped MS is about all the financial information surrounding their gaming division. Their disclosures are a joke. When you have that sort of vague disclosure it's natural to assume there's data that they want to obfuscate or hide.

So absent that data we can go off the things we do know: the cost of game development, the number of games they are developing and putting in their service, the numbers of games they are paying third parties to out on their service and a general estimate of the total subscriber base. That basic math has never added up and it won't add up unless their subscriber count grows multiple times over. That's precisely why their subscriber growth goals were what they were because that growth was needed to make the model a stable sustainable model for them going forward. That did not happen. Growth has been anemic compared to the numbers that would've been necessary.

There were lots of people pointing out the difficulties of this model and why the idea of subsidizing it with external revenue in hopes of promoting mass growth on scale that would make the costs involved profitable was just not realistic and that the model was unsustainable. The community response to that analysis was to literally make a meme out of "it's not sustainable" and laugh at everyone talking about it. Shouting them down whenever a post was made pointing out the glaringly obvious reality. The only thing that's changed now is that the growth has finally stagnated long enough that corporate no longer wants to subsidize the cost of the project and is demanding a return on investment which is exactly what people were saying was going to occur it was just a matter of how high of a tolerance corporate would have.

Click to shrink...

Why should we care? Because when you have a company willing to subsidize a subscription model to the degree that MS has been it devalues the games themselves and creates a negative value proposition for more sustainable modes of creating and publishing games. Hell even the more traditional models are verging on unsustainable levels at this point. The answer here isn't to dump money into something that makes things even more tenuous. Nobody can afford to subsidize a service like the most valuable company in the world can. It's a move to capture the market. So pointing out how the only reason it is happening is because the company doing it is throwing external funds at it regardless of actual profitability is pretty damn important.

You clearly have no interest in listening to or considering the realities of this model and its lack of profitability. Nor do you seem to care to consider the impact of that model on the broader market. The fact that you're bringing up Netflix as a comparison point given the major issues it led to with talent compensation and media valuation for which we just had the longest SAG strike ever proves my point more than you realize.

But yea you're free to keep subscribing. Nobody is saying otherwise. Just don't say we didn't warn you or anyone else here about the realities in store.

Click to shrink...

It is saying that after a title has debuted on games pass sales for that title over the course of the following 12 months are notably lower (redacted%) and that has given even Microsoft executives themselves pause and driven exchanges between them about whether it is worth the loss in direct sales.

The fact that this was a concern for them internally and also a concern for third parties but the public messaging was either "game pass users buy more games" or "don't worry about it" is at the very least incredibly misleading.

And no, the fact that this might be obvious to you does not mean that everyone knew or understood this. We still have people in this very thread trying to find ways to discredit the CMA report and uphold previous PR from MS on this.


The irony is that this stance is exactly the sort of devaluing of games folks are saying these subscription services lead to. Thanks to the presence of these subscriptions you are not buying the games that you otherwise likely would have because they now seem too expensive to you. Of course, you are free to feel that way it's not a crime but it very much is a byproduct of these subscription platforms.

There is a reason Nintendo games sell for so long at full price with such long tails. Because Nintendo have established a reputation for maintaining the value of their software over the long term. That means people are less likely to wait for a price drop or hold out for inclusion of titles in some subscription because they know these are not an option. People misconstrue IP protection and valuation as "anti consumer" now because of the presence of these cheaper options on other platforms that are subsidizing the cost of titles and lowering the cost of entry to a point where it's not feasible for other competitors to be sufficiently profitable.

Click to shrink...

Source

Acquisitions and consolidation lead to the loss in the effectiveness of labor to organize and advocate for themselves regardless of the lip service paid towards honoring union contracts. It further exacerbates the mass imbalance of power and influence between labor and capital and inevitably leads to the loss of jobs. People losing their livelihoods because they are either deemed redundant or an acceptable loss in an effort for a major conglomerate behemoth to cut costs and pad their profit margins.

Click to shrink...

Source

 

[Gavalanche]

Almost a week later, I still can't believe they closed Tango. It's just baffling to me. Delivered their best game in years with probably the exception of Forza Horizon and is also Japanese. It is probably one of the most baffling things I have seen in a long time.

If someone had said two weeks ago studio closures were coming, I would have thought Tango was one of the safe ones. What the hell.

 

[Paquete_PT]

We tried telling y'all this was unsustainable and that MS was subsidizing the losses of GamePass with the profits of other divisions. Eventually the bill would come due. It has come due and as usual it's not the people in charge who made the utterly incompetent decisions who will pay the price.

All I can say is thank heavens MS was so utterly incompetent they were unable to capitalize on their mass subsidization to capture more of the market before the walls started crumbling down on their heads.

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something


















Source


Source

Click to shrink...

Right on the money! A lot of people on Era were on denial about gamepass and xbox position all these years. Even just a few months ago when they started talking about going multiplatform. And you made some solid points throughout the years, good insight!

 

[Bastables]

Redfall started development before MS bought Bethesda. It was Bethesda's idea.

Sony closed down their own Japan Studio. Nobody's building new studio in current financial climate.

Click to shrink...

Sony made team asobi a part of Studio Japan its own standalone team/developer after closing Studio Japan down. I don't see Microsoft actually doing the same to enable a "Sony too" situation here.

Team Asobi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Celestial Descend]

Sony made team asobi a part of Studio Japan its own standalone team/developer after closing Studio Japan down. I don't see Microsoft actually doing the same to enable a "Sony too" situation here.

Team Asobi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Click to shrink...

Did you read what I quoted? The post was asking could Sony rebuild Tango, and the answer is no. If Sony is interested in establishing new studio in Japan, they wouldn't shut down Japan Studio.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Almost a week later, I still can't believe they closed Tango. It's just baffling to me. Delivered their best game in years with probably the exception of Forza Horizon and is also Japanese. It is probably one of the most baffling things I have seen in a long time.

If someone had said two weeks ago studio closures were coming, I would have thought Tango was one of the safe ones. What the hell.

Click to shrink...

It's still shocking to me.

 

[Unknownlight]

We tried telling y'all this was unsustainable and that MS was subsidizing the losses of GamePass with the profits of other divisions. Eventually the bill would come due. It has come due and as usual it's not the people in charge who made the utterly incompetent decisions who will pay the price.

All I can say is thank heavens MS was so utterly incompetent they were unable to capitalize on their mass subsidization to capture more of the market before the walls started crumbling down on their heads.

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

Click to shrink...

Thank you for speaking the truth for 5+ years!

 

[Dave.]

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

Click to shrink...

Very well said / deserved I told you so. I don't need to click on any of those quotes to know that every time you were met with absolute derision, a dogpile of the faithful evangelists with what they're hopefully now realizing was shameful behaviour (lol probably not).

 

[Bastables]

Did you read what I quoted? The post was asking could Sony rebuild Tango, and the answer is no. If Sony is interested in establishing new studio in Japan, they wouldn't shut down Japan Studio.

Click to shrink...

I think your reply misidentifies Japan studio as single developer, considering two of the Japanese studio development teams still exist in polyphony studio and team Asobi.

of course two other teams were shuttered in team ico and team siren. Tango is not comparable to Japan studios structure of multiple internal development teams. Microsoft axing Tango is not comparable at all as there are no survivors like a team hifi or evil studio still working away.

 

[Celestial Descend]

I think your reply misidentifies Japan studio as single developer, considering two of the Japanese studio development teams still exist in polyphony studio and team Asobi.

of course two other teams were shuttered in team ico and team siren. Tango is not comparable to Japan studios structure of multiple internal development teams. Microsoft axing Tango is not comparable at all as there are no survivors like a team hifi or evil studio still working away.

Click to shrink...

I was not making a comparison of any sort. Someone asked could Sony rebuild Tango. I replied Sony is not interested in establishing new studio in Japan as they just canned one.

 

[Rurunaki]

I was not making a comparison of any sort. Someone asked could Sony rebuild Tango. I replied Sony is not interested in establishing new studio in Japan as they just canned one.

Click to shrink...

I think Sony is done with Japan. I see them looking to invest more in South Korea and China.

 

[spaim]

lol, Sony will rebuild Tango after rebuilding Japan Studio

 

[Lamptramp]

We tried telling y'all this was unsustainable and that MS was subsidizing the losses of GamePass with the profits of other divisions. Eventually the bill would come due. It has come due and as usual it's not the people in charge who made the utterly incompetent decisions who will pay the price.

All I can say is thank heavens MS was so utterly incompetent they were unable to capitalize on their mass subsidization to capture more of the market before the walls started crumbling down on their heads.

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

Click to shrink...

It was so clear from just how cagey they were on actual figures that it was the case.

I'm pretty glad its seemingly started to come falling down before becoming the status quo. The devaluation of developers work to where some are harassed that their game is "worthless unless its on gamepass" is pretty sickening to see. As is the constant "gamepass?" port begging.

The ABK merger thread was an absolute omnishambles in particular, I have never felt less safe talking about my own experiences of being in a company undergoing such a massive takeover.

Almost a week later, I still can't believe they closed Tango. It's just baffling to me. Delivered their best game in years with probably the exception of Forza Horizon and is also Japanese. It is probably one of the most baffling things I have seen in a long time.

If someone had said two weeks ago studio closures were coming, I would have thought Tango was one of the safe ones. What the hell.

Click to shrink...

It so stunning for me in that it so clearly and loudly goes against the conceit of Gamepass and how it was "sold" to me by MS and by their more zealous fans.

I'm paraphrasing here ofc...

Its not just "free games" its that it will benefit developers, protect and shield those smaller wonderful niche titles. Its a buffer, it will allow these kids of studios to thrive while being "paid for" by the big behemoth games.

Click to shrink...

Tango was the poster child for such a studio and games. Loved, well regarded, and critically lauded and recognised. If Gamepass doesn't serve this studio (and fans of the games it makes) then its a total and utter failure, and by extension since Xbox have been spending so much of this gen making Xbox *be* Gamepass, then for me the whole of xbox is a failure.

 

[5olid_5nake]

So sad. It reminded me of this video about big corporations.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_CBF318nBY&pp=ygUSZGV1cyBleCB3YXMgcmlnaHQg

 

[dbcyber]

I think the worst thing about Tango and Arcane is that they were pretty much set up for failure. Hifi Rush sort of proved no matter how many milestones you hit and millions of players you reach through Gamepass, it's not actual sales so who cares. Oh and those awards and prestige that came with it? Yeah doesn't matter either it's all lip service.

Arcane was even worse because they didn't even want to make Redfall and it was in development before the Bathesda purchase. They were not even given the chance to flex under MS war chest.

I really hope we get some good news this week to counter all the negativity for months, not that it will make up for people losing their jobs.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

I think Sony is done with Japan. I see them looking to invest more in South Korea and China.

Click to shrink...

As well as India and South Africa. They have been expanding Team Asobi as well as Polyphony and have supported indies coming from Japan, so we will have to see if those efforts bear fruit.

 

[Argentil]

As well as India and South Africa. They have been expanding Team Asobi as well as Polyphony and have supported indies coming from Japan, so we will have to see if those efforts bear fruit.

Click to shrink...

Oh? Out of interest what are those investments into India and South Africa? It's good to see some third world support.

 

[Izanagi89]

Oh? Out of interest what are those investments into India and South Africa? It's good to see some third world support.

Click to shrink...

They started a Hero Project like in China

Revealing 5 India Hero Project games coming to PlayStation

First details on a selection of new games from an India-based developer cohort.

blog.playstation.com

As for South Africa, it's still early days but they're investing into a local company

Sony is making a bold bet on an African gaming startup to boost PlayStation’s reach in the continent

Sony is hoping to expand PlayStation’s reach in the continent.

www.cnbc.com

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Oh? Out of interest what are those investments into India and South Africa? It's good to see some third world support.

Click to shrink...

In addition to what Izanagi89 said, the second round of India Hero Project games are being submitted:

Sony Interactive Entertainment opens submissions for second cohort of India Hero Project

Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) has announced the second cohort of India Hero Project (IHP) - its India-centric incubator program.

www.animationxpress.com

 

[MadMod]

We tried telling y'all this was unsustainable and that MS was subsidizing the losses of GamePass with the profits of other divisions. Eventually the bill would come due. It has come due and as usual it's not the people in charge who made the utterly incompetent decisions who will pay the price.

All I can say is thank heavens MS was so utterly incompetent they were unable to capitalize on their mass subsidization to capture more of the market before the walls started crumbling down on their heads.

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

Click to shrink...

Yeah I'm finding it hard to resist the "I told you so" without coming off as irritating haha. Solid receipts.

 

[GhostTrick]

We tried telling y'all this was unsustainable and that MS was subsidizing the losses of GamePass with the profits of other divisions. Eventually the bill would come due. It has come due and as usual it's not the people in charge who made the utterly incompetent decisions who will pay the price.

All I can say is thank heavens MS was so utterly incompetent they were unable to capitalize on their mass subsidization to capture more of the market before the walls started crumbling down on their heads.

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

Click to shrink...

I remember people saying "sustainability isn't your concern".

 

[Argentil]

They started a Hero Project like in China

Revealing 5 India Hero Project games coming to PlayStation

First details on a selection of new games from an India-based developer cohort.

blog.playstation.com

As for South Africa, it's still early days but they're investing into a local company

Sony is making a bold bet on an African gaming startup to boost PlayStation’s reach in the continent

Sony is hoping to expand PlayStation’s reach in the continent.

www.cnbc.com

Click to shrink...

In addition to what Izanagi89 said, the second round of India Hero Project games are being submitted:

Sony Interactive Entertainment opens submissions for second cohort of India Hero Project

Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) has announced the second cohort of India Hero Project (IHP) - its India-centric incubator program.

www.animationxpress.com

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the info! This is a good direction and I hope these endeavors bare fruit instead of fizzling out.

 

[Silver9]

Click to shrink...

 

[bitcloudrzr]

I remember people saying "sustainability isn't your concern".

Click to shrink...

"Let them worry about the business details," to shut down discussion.

Thanks for the info! This is a good direction and I hope these endeavors bare fruit instead of fizzling out.

Click to shrink...

Trying to expand your hardware market, especially for something luxury like gaming, is going to take at least 5-10 years of investment. Had they not messed up during the PS3 gen, these expansions may have been started earlier, but at least the groundwork is being laid now.

 

[CheapJi]

lol, Sony will rebuild Tango after rebuilding Japan Studio

Click to shrink...

"You know chai, we really are the hi-fi Rush.

 

[Garulon]

Here's a sampling of some of the posts I personally have made over the last 6 years talking about this subject and warning of the sustainability concerns for this model and the incentives it creates. Going back and looking at these and seeing the replies is really something

Click to shrink...

You really committed to your baseless opinion and I appreciate that

 

[Lamptramp]

Oh? Out of interest what are those investments into India and South Africa? It's good to see some third world support.

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I was going to post what bitcloudrzr and Izanagi89 did..

By chance I downloaded the demo for Fishbowl last night https://store.playstation.com/de-de/concept/10009812 but it was my kids bath time so we only had the chance to play for a few minutes. It seemed utterly charming.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

You really committed to your baseless opinion and I appreciate that

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Which part?

 

[Gavalanche]

It just feels mean to rub it in. People had a lot of hope and now I imagine a lot of them are feeling a bad as anyone else.

 

[Garulon]

Which part?

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All of it? I've never been one to be swayed by "proof by vigorous assertion"

 

[momottolo]

Gamepass is the least of their problems. Xbox lineup is just weak, i really like what they were (and still are) doing but financially it never made any sense. Pentiment, Grounded, Hellblade 2, Hifi Rush, South of Midnight, Avowed, Clockwork Revolution; i can't see these games being produced by any other big publisher like Sony, Ubisoft, EA, Take2 etc.
They need games to sell consoles to sell subscriptions (and to sell these games also on PC) but in a world where Alan Wake 2 can't recoup its cost in 6 months how can you expect these games to do that. Yes marketing is bad but can only get you so far, you can't outsell Hellblade like it's the next God of War

 

[jungius]

Might as well rename the console to Activision.

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actibox

 

[GhostTrick]

"Let them worry about the business details," to shut down discussion.


Trying to expand your hardware market, especially for something luxury like gaming, is going to take at least 5-10 years of investment. Had they not messed up during the PS3 gen, these expansions may have been started earlier, but at least the groundwork is being laid now.

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Turns out the viability of a model has an impact on the business.

 

[GhostTrick]

All of it? I've never been one to be swayed by "proof by vigorous assertion"

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I mean, the viability of gamepass was a fair question, especially considering how most models like this work, where a company throw money at it in the hope to gain users and then there's the inevitable moment when they need to profit, how does it work ?
Turns out giving away months and signing up big games to farm users wasn't sustainable and that the solution was either to massively raise the price, if you wanted to keep the same content output and make up for sales... or change the content output.

 

[Garulon]

I mean, the viability of gamepass was a fair question, especially considering how most models like this work, where a company throw money at it in the hope to gain users and then there's the inevitable moment when they need to profit, how does it work ?

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It's a fair question sure, screaming UNSUSTAINABLE when you have 0 access to any financial information to make that claim doesn't seem a fair answer