itfiend

Member
Dec 31, 2019
410
Internal storage is the big fat elephant in the room no one is really talking about, but we all have silently agreed is what will be 'ok' at the start of next gen. You are not getting decent storage space this time imo, just what they could cram in plus OS and hit that price point. Both XSX and PS5 stack up on power and speed, but storage is the weakest point especially on PS5. Juggling space and how fucking big these games are going to be like next COD game lol, is going to ruin your day.

If the console managed it for you - IE you want to launch something that's on the external, it moves your least frequently used games across and swaps them for the game you want to play, this could be no big deal, but it's actually going to be a huge PITA.
 

KTroopA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,967
London, UK
If the console managed it for you - IE you want to launch something that's on the external, it moves your least frequently used games across and swaps them for the game you want to play, this could be no big deal, but it's actually going to be a huge PITA.

Smart Delivery 2.0 perhaps lol. Now imagine patches and DLC on top. You will be needing more storage faster than you think. Not looking forward as I like to hoard my games on my drive and gawp at the majesty of my backlog. Maybe next gen is doing me a favour in some ways..
 

KodiakGTS

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,155
You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. I've never suggested that it's a strange concept or a massive problem, it's just something that prospective buyers need to be aware of. Having to buy an extra piece of hardware and then manage data between the HDD and SSD (potentially quite frequently if games end up growing as I expect them to) diminishes the Series S as a product. The console has plenty of plus points, but this is an undeniable minus point.

Ultimately a lot of my feelings on this are based on my expectation that games will get substantialy bigger over the course of the generation. I don't think it's unimaginable that in a few years time fitting GTAVI and the newest CoD simultaneously within 364GB might be a squeeze. At that point moving games between the SSD and external drive will become a frequent thing rather than an occasional one, and at that point it's not a great experience.

If games get substantially bigger over the course of the generation console storage space could still be the least of our concerns, at least in the US, where the majority of consumers are under ~1 TB monthly data caps and more than half of the population has internet slower than 25 Mbps down. How are people supposed to download these much larger games?
 

AppleBlade

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,719
Connecticut
Series S is a good buy if you use Gamepass and only play a handful of titles at a time. I don't think it's a good fit as a primary console for Resetera's user base, nor is it intended to be.
Exactly! I get the feeling that so many of the posters who think the Series S is a huge mistake are a demographic that this device is not even targeting. They're like add more space! Improve Performance! Yeah, that's why the Series X exists for people who want more space and more performance. For those of you that keep talking about the Series X being a better value, yeah, it's a better value to you because you are an enthusiast.

If my sister (who is a single mom with a tight budget) asked me which one to buy her son, I'd tell her to get the Series S. My nephew plays Minecraft, Fortnite and RocketLeague and they have a cheap 1080 HDTV. There are many people like him and the Series X doesn't provide the same value proposition to them as it does to typical Resetera poster. That extra $200 can buy them 3 years of Gamepass which would be a much better use of that price differential.
 

HeRinger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,339
So, apparently the official FAQ claims the available space is actually 379GB. Not a big difference, but there you go.

Xbox Series S includes a 512GB PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD, with 379GB of user storage. As is typical with consoles, we've reserved space for system files and dedicated a portion for Quick Resume, a new technology made possible by our Xbox Velocity Architecture.

Also:

Will Xbox Series S games take up less room on the SSD than Xbox Series X games?

A significant portion of the overall size of a game is comprised of texture data. As Xbox Series S was designed with a performance target of 1440p at 60 FPS with support for up to 120 FPS, many games won't require their highest level of 4K textures. This results in smaller game sizes overall, often up to 30% smaller on average. Ultimately, developers make the call on how to package their games.

Xbox Support

 

T0kenAussie

Banned
Jan 15, 2020
5,284
this is a storm in a teacup imo. its a 299 console. no one was out here blasting the switch for its internal storage
 

wolfshirt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,169
Los Angeles
So what exactly happens when games EXCEED the 364 footprint?

Does Microsoft have a maximum installation size? Will games arrive on separate launchers (Campaign and Versus)?
 

KanameYuuki

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,703
Colombia
this is a storm in a teacup imo. its a 299 console. no one was out here blasting the switch for its internal storage

You can get more than enough extra space for 20usd, on series S it's extra 200usd, and games on Switch are pretty small. It seems rather annoying specially with the value of gamepass and having the chance to try a lot of games but yeah not like it is being shipped broken or something like that.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,303
So what exactly happens when games EXCEED the 364 footprint?

Does Microsoft have a maximum installation size? Will games arrive on separate launchers (Campaign and Versus)?

It's highly unlikely we'll ever get a game that big but the developer would likely allow you to choose what to install or if it's a third party, would definitely not push 4K assets.
 

T0kenAussie

Banned
Jan 15, 2020
5,284
You can get more than enough extra space for 20usd, on series S it's extra 200usd, and games on Switch are pretty small. It seems rather annoying specially with the value of gamepass and having the chance to try a lot of games but yeah not like it is being shipped broken or something like that.
You just buy a regular hard drive in an enclosure and move the games across that you want to quick resume or play the most.
If you want the extra storage to be the super fast CFExpress interface and widen your quick resume library then you buy the expensive card.

hell mostof the BC games will be fine to play on a regular external like they are now

again it's a storm in a teacup
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,061
You just buy a regular hard drive in an enclosure and move the games across that you want to quick resume or play the most.
If you want the extra storage to be the super fast CFExpress interface and widen your quick resume library then you buy the expensive card.

hell mostof the BC games will be fine to play on a regular external like they are now

again it's a storm in a teacup
ehhh... it's not the end of the world or anything, but if your suggestion to price-conscious consumers is "just spend more money," I'm not sure it's a great pitch...

367 is really low, especially for a digital console with GamePass which encourages downloading and trying more games than the average consumer does. It can be remedied, just kind of a bummer to be thinking about that right out of the gate if you're a COD fan.
 

KC-Slater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,358
Toronto
Lol what...Im not 'manufacturing' anything, Ive seen countless posts here and elsewhere with potential Series S buyers turned off by the price of upgrading the SSD fast storage and considering XSX instead because of the objective value, and I 100% agree. You're right the Series S isn't for me and I'm expressing my opinion why that is, not demanding no one buy it lol. There's no need to get upset about that.

I'm not 'upset' by it, I just think it's a strange take is all, and I'm calling it out on a thread where people are discussing it. Personally I'm happy that there are multiple SKUs.

More importantly...

Equating the short term cost savings of essential items like FOOD to luxury items like a next gen videogame console might not be the best basis for your argument here.

Wait—do you think ketchup is a necessity? You can't sustain yourself on ketchup. I think we're done here.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,066
I'm not 'upset' by it, I just think it's a strange take is all, and I'm calling it out on a thread where people are discussing it. Personally I'm happy that there are multiple SKUs.
My 'strange' take seems to be fairly common, but ok.

Wait—do you think ketchup is a necessity? You can't sustain yourself on ketchup. I think we're done here.
Not quite.

Buying food (that can sustain you) is a constant necessity regardless of how much money you have. Youre at the mercy of the best deals available (buying in bulk, buying on sale, etc) at any given time. You can however choose to wait for a videogame console (or memory card) to drop in price as these are optional luxury items. Your comparison here makes no sense.
 

DJtal

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,516
Capetown / South Africa
If my sister (who is a single mom with a tight budget) asked me which one to buy her son, I'd tell her to get the Series S. My nephew plays Minecraft, Fortnite and RocketLeague and they have a cheap 1080 HDTV. There are many people like him and the Series X doesn't provide the same value proposition to them as it does to typical Resetera poster. That extra $200 can buy them 3 years of Gamepass which would be a much better use of that price differential.
I can add to this that I share my account with my nephew, so he have access to all game pass, Games with Gold (so 100+ games). Guess what, he only cares about the games you named. The majority are actually perfectly fine with two or three games per year and don't collect. When they finish a game they sell it or delete it for good.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
It's pretty sad when you could buy a PS3 with a 500GB drive.
The Series S comes with a 500GB drive too. This is after the OS and reserved space for game saved states, something the PS3 had to have allocated for as well (though not as much of course, it didn't have room for more than one saved-state nor did it use 4K graphics in the OS). And that 500GB drive in the PS3 wasn't solid state nor particularly fast, definitely not a best-in-class device like the one in the Series S. I mean, it costs $230 for a 1TB drive at this speed, but this entire console is $300.

So the comparison doesn't make any sense.

It can be remedied, just kind of a bummer to be thinking about that right out of the gate if you're a COD fan.
Why would anyone need to think about it right out of the gate? COD is only 50GB for the mode everyone gets the game for, multiplayer. And even if they want to play through the campaign, it's still going to be less than 200GB for everything on the Series S version, that they can uninstall when they finish with the campaign (how much less than 200GB will have to be seen)
 
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FusionNY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,723
You can get more than enough extra space for 20usd, on series S it's extra 200usd, and games on Switch are pretty small. It seems rather annoying specially with the value of gamepass and having the chance to try a lot of games but yeah not like it is being shipped broken or something like that.
You can get 1 tb of cold storage for 20 bucks. Anyone who's interested in a budget console isn't going to buy the most expensive storage option.
 

Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,994
The Series S comes with a 500GB drive too. This is after the OS and reserved space for game saved states, something the PS3 had to have allocated for as well (though not as much of course, it didn't have room for more than one saved-state nor did it use 4K graphics in the OS). And that 500GB drive in the PS3 wasn't solid state nor particularly fast, definitely not a best-in-class device like the one in the Series S. I mean, it costs $230 for a 1TB drive at this speed, but this entire console is $300.

So the comparison doesn't make any sense.
I know it's the same capacity. But the PS3 had more available space, and that's a two generation old system. That's pretty sad in my book. Especially when PS3 games were often less than half what they are today.

The SSD in Xbox Series is not best in class, it doesn't even top out the last gen PCiE 3 standard.

Outputting OS at 4K doesn't mean shit. That's on memory, not storage.

And if you want more storage on Series S, you gotta buy a proprietary disk that cost almost as much as the system itself.
 

FusionNY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,723
You can't run any native software off of that though, so not much point in it, might as well just download the software as needed.
For people who have shitty internet, this would be far more reasonable purchase than buying 220$ storage expansion. 20$ bucks and transferring to and from an hdd seems like reasonable compromise for anyone who's gaming on a budget.
 

rainz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
396
This could be the console that actually helps me stick with games and get through my backlog without installing 200+! At least on the internal anyway, hah..
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I know it's the same capacity. But the PS3 had more available space, and that's a two generation old system. That's pretty sad in my book. Especially when PS3 games were often less than half what they are today.
But what's sad about it? Yes, old devices could get vastly inferior slow drives. I just don't see your point. Storage space hasn't been a bullet point of the consoles this generation, speed has been, and speed is expensive. And if you look at the PS3 *launch*, it had two available sizes: 20GB and 60GB, for $500 and $600 respectively. The 500GB PS3 Super Slim came out just one year before the PS4, it was the second console refresh of its generation..

Outputting OS at 4K doesn't mean shit. That's on memory, not storage.
They have to store the OS textures and animations on storage, and cache those textures and animations from the store and from installed games, and 4K assets are 4 times the size of 1080p assets. But it's more about the space allocated for state saving (Quick Resume), hopefully you can tell it to use less for that since I personally don't ever use it on my current consoles even for one game (I only ever play one major game at a time personally).
 
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Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,994
But what's sad about it? Yes, old devices could get vastly inferior slow drives. I just don't see your point. Storage space hasn't been a bullet point of the consoles this generation, speed has been, and speed is expensive. And if you look at the PS3 *launch*, it had two available sizes: 20GB and 60GB, for $500 and $600 respectively. The 500GB PS3 Super Slim came out just one year before the PS4, it was the second console refresh of its generation..
With new console generations, I expect large leaps forward in all aspects. And storage capacity is so important from a user point of view. Considering how little the amount of storage has changed over not one, but two generations... I'm somewhat disappointed. Especially since it's also a step back from launch Xbox One, and One S. The 500GB PS3 was a late model yes, but still an old ass console at this point. Hopefully there'll be a 1TB model of Series S not too far off.

They have to store the OS textures and animations on storage, and cache those textures and animations from the store and from installed games, and 4K assets are 4 times the size of 1080p assets. But it's more about the space allocated for state saving (Quick Resume), hopefully you can tell it to use less for that since I personally don't ever use it on my current consoles even for one game (I only ever play one major game at a time personally).
Yeah, I think Quick Resume and possibly video recording (?) is eating up a lot.
A lot of OS "textures" are likely just a few lines of code, just like on a website, so it's mostly images and video on the storefront that takes up cache.

Has the Series S been confirmed to output OS at 4K? Considering One X with more RAM doesn't, I wouldn't expect it to.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
I don't know why any avid gamer would prefer it anyway. Seems more like a Fifa/CoD/Fortnite machine.
 

KC-Slater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,358
Toronto
Buying food (that can sustain you) is a constant necessity regardless of how much money you have. Youre at the mercy of the best deals available (buying in bulk, buying on sale, etc) at any given time. You can however choose to wait for a videogame console (or memory card) to drop in price as these are optional luxury items. Your comparison here makes no sense.

But I said ketchup. Something that is also frivolous. You said food. You're trying to tear down a straw man argument that I didn't make.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,066
But I said ketchup. Something that is also frivolous. You said food. You're trying to tear down a straw man argument that I didn't make.
Err..
This is like arguing that it doesn't make sense to buy groceries in smaller denominations than what you would find at Costco, because eventually you'll need more and it will cost you more in the long run. Sometimes you only want a little bit of ketchup right now.
Again..youre comparing shopping for an Xbox to shopping for essential items like groceries....last I checked 'groceries' predominantly implies FOOD. You can't just isolate ketchup, 'because it can't sustain you', out of all the food people buy in a Costco to justify the comparison to a videogame console.
 

KC-Slater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,358
Toronto
Err..

Again..youre comparing shopping for an Xbox to shopping for essential items like groceries....last I checked 'groceries' predominantly implies FOOD. You can't just isolate ketchup, 'because it can't sustain you', out of all the food people buy in a Costco to justify the comparison to a videogame console.

You quoted my post where I specifically called out ketchup. I don't know what else there is to say? Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. It's fine.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
this is a storm in a teacup imo. its a 299 console. no one was out here blasting the switch for its internal storage
It is. Again, Sony had the balls to sell a PS3 with 12GB of storage which automatically meant certain games were not able to be played on the console *at all*. People will be fine and find a way, external storage is known by many customers I think.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,066
You quoted my post where I specifically called out ketchup. I don't know what else there is to say? Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. It's fine.
The irony is staggering.

You've continued to miss my very simple point that situations arise where people need to buy food immediately regardless of its current price in order to survive, this is obviously NOT the case for a fucking Xbox. The content of my first post that YOU felt the need to call out was about the favorable comparison of value in Series X versus Series S..which clearly hit a nerve.

Youre entire argument is fundamentally flawed as I've painstakingly laid out, you've yet to refute anything I've said or perhaps you're reading comprehension is just..well you know..
 

MysticGon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,285
That has to be wrong. How much os System OS stuff hogging up?

If true it's a good way to try and push people to Xcloud or the SSD expansion.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,165
Alberta
Series S is a good buy if you use Gamepass and only play a handful of titles at a time. I don't think it's a good fit as a primary console for Resetera's user base, nor is it intended to be.
That's what I thought, but apparently, based on that Quick Resume thread, nearly everyone here only plays one game at a time so who knows.

This is a console for more casual gamers who only want to play two, maybe three games at a time, who don't have and don't plan to get a 4K TV (or don't care about the resolution) and who might not even see the value in GamePass. Those people who literally just buy the new Madden/NBA/NHL/CoD or whatever game their 'must have' is every year...

It works for that. I don't think it works as a primary console for hardcore gamers, but it's not intended to.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,579
That has to be wrong. How much os System OS stuff hogging up?

If true it's a good way to try and push people to Xcloud or the SSD expansion.

This is fairly typical for a 500GB device.

For comparison with other 500GB devices, Xbox One had 362GB usable at launch (so 2GB less than Series S) and PS4 had just 38GB more at 402GB usable.

You never get as much usable space as you think you will.
 

infinityBCRT

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,137
this is a storm in a teacup imo. its a 299 console. no one was out here blasting the switch for its internal storage
Jeff Grubb had a good take in his review-- it's a console with compromises.

I think it's not meant for hardcore gamers, but for gamers who only play a few games a year. And if a heavier gamer is using it, they'll have to pair it with a cheap external HDD to be able to use it to play a lot of games and deal with shuttling storage. If there's any intention to buy the 1TB storage expansion eventually, might as well just save up and get the X.
 

KC-Slater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,358
Toronto
The irony is staggering.

You've continued to miss my very simple point that situations arise where people need to buy food immediately regardless of its current price in order to survive, this is obviously NOT the case for a fucking Xbox. The content of my first post that YOU felt the need to call out was about the favorable comparison of value in Series X versus Series S..which clearly hit a nerve.

Youre entire argument is fundamentally flawed as I've painstakingly laid out, you've yet to refute anything I've said or perhaps you're reading comprehension is just..well you know..

I read your point. People need food. People need food, people don't need video games. I was never disputing that. You fixated on a narrative that I didn't make, and are trying to insinuate this was a point that I was trying to argue. You are fixated on semantics.

Costco sells lots of stuff including but not limited to grocery items. I flippantly pointed out ketchup (a grocery related item) because it is an unnecessary item that is sold in a number of different SKUs (from packets to bulk jars, to multi-packs, etc) and in a number of different retail environments. People don't need ketchup and don't need video games. Ketchup is consumable and technically food (it's digestible and eaten with food as a condiment) but it's not food in the same sense as something that's part of a sustainable diet for a human being like a raw vegetible. You could buy a 'regular' sized container of ketchup, and have it last however long it would last, or you could spend more money and get a disproportionately larger container of ketchup, and have it last longer. Some would argue this make more sense, because this might help you meet your hypothetical ketchup-needs in the future. Others might argue that extra money you might spend on more ketchup right now -- that you don't know when or if you will need -- might have more utility addressing another want or desire. Both are correct.

I broke down my argument in my initial post, but I suppose it's just easier for you to argue against something I didn't say, rather than address what I did. That's your prerogative.

Can we please bring ketchup-gate to a close?