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Stellar Blade X NieR: Automata: Yoko Taro and Hyung-Tae Kim on How Their Blockbusters Inspire One Another

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
Kinthey said:
He says that but I'm honestly a bit confused about how Automata is supposed to be a retelling of Neon Genesis Evangelion lol
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I think calling it a retelling is going too far, as there are a ton of key differences in plot structure, characters, and themes. And it's not something that I really considered before. But I can see the parallels thinking about them now.

While broadly Nier Automata's existential philosophical themes swing much more broadly than Eva, the core it comes down to with 9S and 2B bears a lot of resemblance to the last episodes/movie of Evangelion. As 9S starts to emotionally fall to pieces in the C/D route, he faces questions that are similar to Shinji, trying to understand what he's fighting for and how he can continue to live in a world where he hurts and is hurt by the people he cares for. His rage at his inability to connect with 2B comes out when he destroys the fake models while climbing the tower in a manner not dissimilar from Shinji choking Asuka during Instrumentality in End of Eva.

2B also exists in a sort of "Hedgehog's Dilemma", forced to kill 9S even though she cares for him. And, much like Eva, Automata's ending posits that belief in the power of change, and the power to build connections with others, can make it possible to break out of cycles of emotional hurt and find happiness even as we make mistakes. Like Eva, 2B and 9S are given a second chance after their failures.

Again, the differences between the works overwhelm the similarities, but it's possible to work your way between the two and see the influence.
 
NediarPT88

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,170
TheDkmariolink

TheDkmariolink

Member
Nov 12, 2017
721
JasperMyst said:
Ikr…

Guess guys can't find girls cute or otherworldly.

It's like people think differently towards things compared to other people. What a shock.
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I guess people took issue with that because Yoko is a well known pervert (at least in his works, I have no idea how it reflects irl), so that cute comes with different connotations.

It's just Yoko being Yoko though and that quote is taken from a much larger interview. It seemed to have worked in diverting the conversation, though...
 
Gestault

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,399
HStallion said:
Eh I fee like someone can say that about their work all they want. Taro isn't shitting on his team by making some self deprecating comments and he often compliments the work of those alongside him. Some of you really read way too into these comments especially for a dude who is basically a walking shit post.
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Half of what I'm talking about there is just that I think it's bunk when one person is credited for such obviously big efforts, and using that as part of a feigned modesty bit (yes, even when the original comment is joking around) comes across crummy in some contexts. When I wrote "read what I'm replying to," that should signal to you that I'm reacting to the other person's way of characterizing it/explaining it, basically that I thought was crummy too. It's fine if you disagree or think it's an overreaction to basically an implication, but you don't get to play talk-cop to me. You can chill out and just read the comments more closely if you're so worried about other people talking to each other about this stuff.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Gestault said:
Half of what I'm talking about there is just that I think it's bunk when it's one person is credited for such obviously big efforts, and using that as part of a feigned modesty bit (yes, even when the original comment is joking around) comes across crummy in some contexts. When I wrote "read what I'm replying to," that should signal to you that I'm reacting to the other person's way of characterizing it/explaining it, basically that I thought was crummy too. It's fine if you disagree or think it's an overreaction to basically an implication, but you don't get to play talk-cop to me. You can chill out and just read the comments more closely if you're so worried about other people talking to each other about this stuff.
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I did read what you were replying to and it wasn't a complex or confusing conversation. I got it. I still feel that it feels like you're reading really hard into a throw away comment from a guy whose not exactly very serious at the best of times and has already praised the efforts and skills of his team when he's not downplaying his own talents and work many times before.

Edit: I'll just add that there are certainly things to call out or criticize Taro on from this interview and elsewhere but him being playfully humble is not it especially when acting like its some kind of affront to his team.
 
NediarPT88

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,170
Angst

Angst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,431
combat will be better in stellar blade, graphics will be better.

Everything else will probably be worse.
 
Ashes of Dreams

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,529
Gestault said:
When I wrote "read what I'm replying to," that should signal to you that I'm reacting to the other person's way of characterizing it/explaining it, basically that I thought was crummy too. It's fine if you disagree or think it's an overreaction to basically an implication, but you don't get to play talk-cop to me. You can chill out and just read the comments more closely if you're so worried about other people talking to each other about this stuff.
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I mean you say this but given that I was "what you were replying to", you didn't actually respond to what I said after that, so I'm not sure how much this was other people "talking to each other".

The problem with your post is that you are adding things that wasn't said in order to comment on something that nobody thinks. It's especially ironic because the thing you're trying to call out is something I call out ALL the time on here. People are constantly misattributing who did what on a game because they tend to only know one name. Do a search on here for "Nomura" and you'll probably find me eventually popping up to tell people that, no in fact Nomura is not the sole writer/director/artist on every single Square Enix game. And I'll also say that while I absolutely love Nier Automata's story, the writing talents of Sawako Natori were deeply missed.

But nobody, myself or Yoko Taro, were saying that he was the sole creative in his games. What I said was that he downplays HIS talent and puts down HIS work. As in he never will say "PlatinumGames made bad combat" or "the music wasn't good". He says those things are the reasons the games have any popularity, because his work was bad. Everyone is better than him. That's the stuff he says. It's a bit. Everyone knows it. It's one of many bits, another one is the comments he makes towards his producer (who seems to be his friend) and various things about Square Enix. People go into Yoko Taro interviews knowing these things are part of the way he talks. You filled in the blanks with your own idea about how this is disrespectful to the others who worked on those games, then attributed that to me because I didn't bring them up.

But Yoko Taro is the major creative influence on his games. He's the director and the writer and he talks even in this interview about some of the freedom that allows him. So yeah it's easy to call Nier "a Yoko Taro game" in the same way we call Metal Gear "a Hideo Kojima game". We're not ignoring the giant credits list when we say that and suggesting we are is just getting caught up in semantics.
 
Patapuf

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,426
Mesoian said:
I mean, while you're correct on the connective tissue aspect of the game, is say the rest of that tissue is.. Pretty weak. The submission system is just bad, people are very vocal and aggressive about the shump sections essentially being half of the game, the environments are clunky, the shop systems really have no purpose other than being their because other RPGs before it has then and it's a funny joke.

All of those things have charm when put together. But a game can't thrive on charm alone, the real deal holyfield is that, much like nier gestalt and the drakengard series, actually playing most of nier a is miserable. Everything off the critical path feels like a genuine waste of time that results in little more than a slight chuckle from the player. Again, that's charming, and I never want to do it again.

It will be very interesting to see if stellar blade has the same issues, sacrificing good game play and a solid structure in the name of charm, because they think charm is more interesting.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on nier:a being "miserable" to play. It's a bit repetitive during the second playthrough but it plays and controls just fine, especially taking into account all the different kind of things it does. As you say, a game can't succeed on charm alone and Nier:A wouldn't have had the wide appeal it did (critically and commercially) if it didn't also play well.

Unlike, as you point out gestalt and drakengard, which are examples of games that are very "clunky" and at times actively unfun if you want to reach the final conclusion.

I don't expect much of Stellar Blade on the Charm front though. It might end up being a decent action game. But none of what makes Nier great seem present in the trailers.
 
Kudo

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,893
I can already say I will enjoy playing Stellar Blade more: combat, visuals and soundtrack are all top tier.
Whether story leaves same kind of impression as Nier remains to be seen but there isn't many games that manage to do that.
 
Secret Bambino

Secret Bambino

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Member
Mar 21, 2021
2,933
I know that Taro is a very self-deprecating man, and saying his games are not that great is his whole shtick. But I imagine it kinda sucks for the rest of the people who also worked on those games, like Platinum.
 
Loud Wrong

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,179
Kudo said:
I can already say I will enjoy playing Stellar Blade more: combat, visuals and soundtrack are all top tier.
Whether story leaves same kind of impression as Nier remains to be seen but there isn't many games that manage to do that.
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Moment to moment gameplay is the most important part of a video game to me, and the demo has already shown it's better than NA in that regard. Visuals and music are also both incredible. Story so far just seems OK, which is fine.
 
The Omega Man

The Omega Man

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,939
It's a 2B in Stellar Blade stealth announcement, it's been like 2 days since 2B has been featured in other game, so this is overdue
 
Kudo

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,893
Loud Wrong said:
Moment to moment gameplay is the most important part of a video game to me, and the demo has already shown it's better than NA in that regard. Visuals and music are also both incredible. Story so far just seems OK, which is fine.
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Agreed.
Early to say anything about the story but there definitely is potential in the setting. Story would have to be very bad to make me put down a game with this combat.
 
MrY2K

MrY2K

Member
Aug 30, 2023
70
Unfortunately we'll be hearing about this game made by weirdo misogynist porn addicts for years.
 
Lyriell

Lyriell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
437
I once thanked Yokon Taro for making Drakengard 3 so crazy, especially the last boss.

He replied to me with "I'm sorry, I will try and make a good game next time!"

I think he is very self deprecating.
 
Ashes of Dreams

Ashes of Dreams

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May 22, 2020
14,529
Lyriell said:
I once thanked Yokon Taro for making Drakengard 3 so crazy, especially the last boss.

He replied to me with "I'm sorry, I will try and make a good game next time!"

I think he is very self deprecating.
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I mean... to be fair... he's actually right about Drakengard 3. That one is actually bad. lmao
I also love the final boss

Humanity said:
I mean misogynists for sure, it's South Korea, but we don't know that they're weirdo porn addicts c'mon!
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Criticize the developers of Stellar Blade all you want (I certainly do) but is generalizing every South Korean as a misogynist really the best way to do that?
 
Bish_Bosch

Bish_Bosch

Member
Apr 30, 2018
1,036
MrY2K said:
Unfortunately we'll be hearing about this game made by weirdo misogynist porn addicts for years.
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Idk the Harry Potter game was also a rallying cry for chuds and when was the last time you heard people talking about that game? Plus that game will sell conservatively 5 times the amount as Stellar Blade and is completely memory-holed.
 

Melody

Member
Oct 28, 2017
805
Wouldn't be surprised if Stellar Blade had more overall depth and better combat than Nier, but that demo had pretty weak dialogue, especially Adam and his distractingly bad VA, and while the premise could be cool it didn't feel all that interesting or well done so far.
 
Ashes of Dreams

Ashes of Dreams

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Member
May 22, 2020
14,529
Atom said:
TIL that people consider NierA's gameplay bad. Huh.
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Anyone calling it "bad" is being a bit ridiculous imo but I do know that a lot of people who are more passionate about the particulars of their action games found it lacking. Even in this very interview Yoko Taro talks about how they intentionally made it to focus more on the player feeling cool than being challenged because they know Square Enix's base is more RPG players than action players. Same philosophy behind FFXVI. I think Automata pulls it off much better but that's irrelevant. I just remember when the game came out there were definitely a lot of "this game is amazing, the story is fantastic, the combat is fun but it does lack the depth of a Bayonetta or Devil May Cry".
 
Gunny T Highway

Gunny T Highway

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Oct 27, 2017
17,039
Canada
Even if the story ends up being trash and nowhere near Automata's level, the demo has shown at least the gameplay, music and graphics are going to be great.
 
lvl 99 Pixel

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,739
Flashback to Taro playing Fuga and immediately asking the director if this was his fetish...
the guy runs his mouth in a way that will weird people out "when you're on my level you see these things"
 
NightShift

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,043
Australia
I really wish Yoko Taro didn't have this weird self depreciation bit when doing interviews or whatever. It makes him come off far more immature than his work suggests.

Also do people really think Stellar Blade looks better than Automata? Maybe the environments but all of the character and mechanical designs are ugly as fuck to me. While Automata's are top tier.
 
brawndolicious

brawndolicious

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,934
NightShift said:
I really wish Yoko Taro didn't have this weird self depreciation bit when doing interviews or whatever. It makes him come off far more immature than his work suggests.

Also do people really think Stellar Blade looks better than Automata? Maybe the environments but all of the character and mechanical designs are ugly as fuck to me. While Automata's are top tier.
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It does sort of feel like Yoko Taro is a 4chan nerd supported by a great team. Hence why you get really cool art design mixed with booty skirts.

But yeah, it has much better character design than SB.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,571
That was a lovely interview.

I don't know what the thread title originally was but I imagine this thread would have benefited from starting off with the current one.
 
The Ethereal One

The Ethereal One

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,979
Yep, looking at the responses to Suzi's tweets I can already see Stellar Blade discourse is going to be annoying for the next month or so.
 
Striferser

Striferser

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,601
Impression based on demo
Graphic: SB > NA
Cutscene presentation: NA > SB
Control: NA > SB (i'm sorry, i just can't with SB input delay)
Music: NA=SB
Story and dialogue: NA>SB (this is just based on demo for both game)
Costume: SB>NA

at the moment, i like NA better and i'm not expecting much from SB combat since it feel so sluggish.
Combat wise, NA is much more responsive, dodge actually useful outside of perfect dodge, animation looks great.
 
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