Youth violence at San Francisco's Stonestown mall prompts increased police presence (Crazy ass videos)

[Captjohnboyd]

The fucking Wire addressed this shit over a decade ago. I grew up in poverty and was myself a party to some violence that to this day haunts me, and those saying we need support systems are right. I've done time in juvenile and that shit didn't fix a thing. No doubt, there needs to be consequences for their actions but it's never as simple as "this teenager is an animal".

Post my first stint in juvi I was sent to an adult prison to spend time in a single cell with a first degree murderer. This man knew right out the gate where I was coming from, he didn't try to scare me straight (which was the intent of the program) he was just like fuck these dudes. The thing that finally removed me from the violent street life was empathy, education, and patience.

Videos Ike this only serve one purpose And that's to demonize minorities and the poor. If you think these kids need to do hard time you have no understanding of the macro level issues at play here in America with minorities and the poor

 

[NetMapel]

This is a great post honestly. It's so tiring repeatedly seeing people either not care about issues like this or want to jump to really authoritarian "solutions". Or the refusal of non perfect solutions that are possible right now allowing conditions to slide even further. Really hope people get a clue and work together to improve things soon.

An imperfect solution is better than no solution.

Click to shrink...

In another way, incremental improvement is more preferable than no improvement at all. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

 

[bionic77]

The fucking Wire addressed this shit over a decade ago. I grew up in poverty and was myself a party to some violence that to this day haunts me, and those saying we need support systems are right. I've done time in juvenile and that shit didn't fix a thing. No doubt, there needs to be consequences for their actions but it's never as simple as "this teenager is an animal".

Post my first stint in juvi I was sent to an adult prison to spend time in a single cell with a first degree murderer. This man knew right out the gate where I was coming from, he didn't try to scare me straight (which was the intent of the program) he was just like fuck these dudes. The thing that finally removed me from the violent street life was empathy, education, and patience.

Videos Ike this only serve one purpose And that's to demonize minorities and the poor. If you think these kids need to do hard time you have no understanding of the macro level issues at play here in America with minorities and the poor

Click to shrink...

Why do you think Americans tend towards violence more so than many others countries?

Poverty and many of our problems are not unique to the US. But we incarcerate far more people than any other country.

Is it a lack of basic community and family support systems or do you think it is something else?

 

[junk]

I grew up near this mall. I remember when it was opened. It's never been like this in the sunset district and ingleside. Im sorry but fuck these fkn kids and I don't give a fk what broken environment they come from - that is no excuse. Elders & young ones in my extended family still frequent this place, but besides that, that whole surrounding community is a peaceful place and they don't deserve these fkn demons ruining it.

 

[Captjohnboyd]

Why do you think Americans tend towards violence more so than many others countries?

Poverty and many of our problems are not unique to the US. But we incarcerate far more people than any other country.

Is it a lack of basic community and family support systems or do you think it is something else?

Click to shrink...

I'm not qualified to answer that question outside of my personal experience. I'm sure it varies from family to family and person to person but for me it was a distinct lack of support for my single mother, causing her to often struggle to take care of me financially, and a poorly run education system. I was a "gifted" student but often faced issues getting into the good schools even though they recruited me. I needed to take a number of tests but wouldn't get the notice to take them until after they'd passed, or my mother couldn't afford the off season individual tests for me. That's not even getting into the fact that I rarely had food enough to eat. It's no wonder young people resort to crime when they can't even depend on a decent meal at home.

Ultimately it's not a singular problem, unfortunately. I can only attest, anecdotally, that had I been provided more opportunities to move ahead, I might not have floundered in violence in addiction for most of my early years

Edit: I'd like to add, that my mother worked her ass off. Two jobs usually, but making minimum wage most of the time, and because it was two jobs I was a latch key kid that didn't have parental guidance when I was at home post school. She couldn't afford to not work so I was left to my own devices which is never good for keeping people out of trouble

 

[LegendofJoe]

I grew up near this mall. I remember when it was opened. It's never been like this in the sunset district and ingleside. Im sorry but fuck these fkn kids and I don't give a fk what broken environment they come from - that is no excuse. Elders & young ones in my extended family still frequent this place, but besides that, that whole surrounding community is a peaceful place and they don't deserve these fkn demons ruining it.

Click to shrink...

These kids need consequences for their actions, but that isn't going to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, that's always been the case and that isn't going to ever change.

 

[Tendo]

The fucking Wire addressed this shit over a decade ago. I grew up in poverty and was myself a party to some violence that to this day haunts me, and those saying we need support systems are right. I've done time in juvenile and that shit didn't fix a thing. No doubt, there needs to be consequences for their actions but it's never as simple as "this teenager is an animal".

Post my first stint in juvi I was sent to an adult prison to spend time in a single cell with a first degree murderer. This man knew right out the gate where I was coming from, he didn't try to scare me straight (which was the intent of the program) he was just like fuck these dudes. The thing that finally removed me from the violent street life was empathy, education, and patience.

Videos Ike this only serve one purpose And that's to demonize minorities and the poor. If you think these kids need to do hard time you have no understanding of the macro level issues at play here in America with minorities and the poor

Click to shrink...

Thank you for sharing this. There is a lot of powerful truth here that I wish the average dipshit MORE COPS American could see and empathize with.

 

[bionic77]

I'm not qualified to answer that question outside of my personal experience. I'm sure it varies from family to family and person to person but for me it was a distinct lack of support for my single mother, causing her to often struggle to take care of me financially, and a poorly run education system. I was a "gifted" student but often faced issues getting into the good schools even though they recruited me. I needed to take a number of tests but wouldn't get the notice to take them until after they'd passed, or my mother couldn't afford the off season individual tests for me. That's not even getting into the fact that I rarely had food enough to eat. It's no wonder young people resort to crime when they can't even depend on a decent meal at home.

Ultimately it's not a singular problem, unfortunately. I can only attest, anecdotally, that had I been provided more opportunities to move ahead, I might not have floundered in violence in addiction for most of my early years

Edit: I'd like to add, that my mother worked her ass off. Two jobs usually, but making minimum wage most of the time, and because it was two jobs I was a latch key kid that didn't have parental guidance when I was at home post school. She couldn't afford to not work so I was left to my own devices which is never good for keeping people out of trouble

Click to shrink...

Thanks for replying. Very sorry about your own circumstances. I hope you are in a better place now.

It's only anecdotal but I have traveled a decent amount and that has included visiting several developing countries.

Totally unfounded but I personally feel many of these issues come from the fact that many of our kids don't have a family or community to watch over them. In a lot of places even when you only have one parent you will still have uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc that still live with you.

But my guess is unfounded. I am just curious as why we are often so violent in the US. It probably doesn't help that it's glorified but that same media is seen by most of the world so I don't think that's the main problem.

 

[Kaah]

This thread about multiple racially motivated attacks sure is something.

 

[JaY P.]

Why do you think Americans tend towards violence more so than many others countries?

Poverty and many of our problems are not unique to the US. But we incarcerate far more people than any other country.

Is it a lack of basic community and family support systems or do you think it is something else?

Click to shrink...

I feel that kids these days do idiotic things for social media likes. Yes, family support systems are failing and this void is being filled by other things. Sadly, many teens are looking for acknowledgement on social media and will do pretty much anything for it.

 

[Davilmar]

I feel that kids these days do idiotic things for social media likes. Yes, family support systems are failing and this void is being filled by other things. Sadly, many teens are looking for acknowledgement on social media and will do pretty much anything for it.

Click to shrink...

Definitely a part of it, and another example of the harms of social media. However, what do we do about the punishment phase? If my nephew or son was violently beaten by a group of kids, I'd want prosecutions as would any decent parent. It fucking sucks since I know asking for prosecutions throws more minorities in the legal system, but we also can't have these types of behaviors continue without a response. We lack so many social and familial support structures that would prevent this shit from happening.

 

[TheodoreXGolbez]

Yup. More police are not the solution, and this thread will quickly turn into an excuse to shit on California homelessness, and the boogeyman of 'increased crime'.

Click to shrink...

Let's be honest.

 

[THE210]

At a minimum these kids need a juvenile probation officer looking over them. We can't just excuse these behaviors away without acting at the individual level. Each youth should be evaluated and treated accordingly based on their needs and history.
This reminds me of the early 90's when huge fights would go on wherever teens congregated. The fights would escalate to shootings and stabbings. I remember they took the bus stops out of one local mall after a string of shootings but it was to late and the mall ended up getting closed down.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Why do you think Americans tend towards violence more so than many others countries?

Poverty and many of our problems are not unique to the US. But we incarcerate far more people than any other country.

Is it a lack of basic community and family support systems or do you think it is something else?

Click to shrink...

We are so hyper individualistic we attribute our social and community failures as personal failures, and if its their failure as person they are punished as a person, not as result of some other problem.

 

[RedMercury]

The jumping on people's heads stuff is wild, feel like I've been seeing more and more of that. Obviously not saying punching or kicking someone isn't dangerous too but jumping on their head is such a huge disregard for life

 

[entremet]

We are so hyper individualistic we attribute our social and community failures as personal failures, and if its their failure as person they are punished as a person, not as result of some other problem.

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correct.

 

[NinjaScooter]

I mean Black people been lynched and jumped for most of last century, they didn't use that as an excuse to vote for white supremacists, segregationists and fascists.

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Not only is it not seem as a legitimate excuse to vote Right, but "progressives" especially here continually count on (expect?) the black vote to save their liberal asses in places like Georgia and Virginia. Save a democracy that not only hasn't worked for them, but that largely despises and shits all over them and has since it's inception.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

It's not really tenable to say "prosecuting crime will cause more crime." It doesn't add up logically, and the evidence doesn't support it.

 

[entremet]

It's not really tenable to say "prosecuting crime will cause more crime." It doesn't add up logically, and the evidence doesn't support it.

Click to shrink...

You're right.

But jailing youth does make them more likely to keep committing crimes.

Point Park University Online

online.pointpark.edu

We're not saying they should not see any punishment. But our current system breeds criminality. It's not data-driven. It's fear driven. Politics driven.

Restorative justice has been growing.

 

[Royalan]

Who is even saying that these kids shouldn't receive some sort of punishment?

Who is even saying that?

This is such a distraction and it pops up every time we as a public try to have act productive conversations and seek long-term solutions.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

Who is even saying that these kids shouldn't receive some sort of punishment?

Who is even saying that?

This is such a distraction and it pops up every time we as a public try to have act productive conversations and seek long-term solutions.

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Arguing that systemic issues are caused by prosecution in this thread in good faith requires acknowledging that ongoing public violence in SF is a systemic issue.

Sometimes an imperfect response can be much better than doing nothing. Frankly ResetEra has enough people who think these videos don't reflect reality in SF. Which is especially annoying when people who live there tell them it's real.

 

[krazen]

Let's be honest.

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Lol. I mean arguably cops are probably as likely to commit the crimes, just hide it better.

Gang Members Hold Positions at 'Highest Levels' of LA Sheriff's Department, Investigation Reveals

The former sheriff “tolerated, if not rewarded” deputy gangs, according to the report

www.rollingstone.com

Definitely a part of it, and another example of the harms of social media. However, what do we do about the punishment phase? If my nephew or son was violently beaten by a group of kids, I'd want prosecutions as would any decent parent. It fucking sucks since I know asking for prosecutions throws more minorities in the legal system, but we also can't have these types of behaviors continue without a response. We lack so many social and familial support structures that would prevent this shit from happening.

Click to shrink...

I mean, that's the problem. We can objectively talk about these issues but it's tough when its our family members or our homes (where many of us have all our wealth) that suffer. But it's one we need to make; we are generations on generations of kicking this can down the road and as a society we do have some nerve freaking out at an uptick during still historic lows.

At a minimum these kids need a juvenile probation officer looking over them. We can't just excuse these behaviors away without acting at the individual level. Each youth should be evaluated and treated accordingly based on their needs and history.
This reminds me of the early 90's when huge fights would go on wherever teens congregated. The fights would escalate to shootings and stabbings. I remember they took the bus stops out of one local mall after a string of shootings but it was to late and the mall ended up getting closed down.

Click to shrink...

We've always acted at the individual level though. Yeah, the media wants to paint every blue state as 'anarchist jurisdictions' with pro-crime prosecutors (lol) but many places are still the same shitholes they've been all these decades: Stockton. Brownsville. Gary, Camden, etc. It's just San Fran is the fun story because it's supposed to be this big monied Dem city not realizing the liberals in it vote just like the GOP when it comes to these issues. (possibly worse, there are studies that right leaning voters are less NIMBY).

These aren't new social media driven problems ("The knockout game!") but part of the American cycle: 70's heroin and gangs, 80's street wars over cocaine that bled into the 90's, the beginning of 'cheap' less risky street drugs thanks to big pharm like Purdue going into the 00's. Stealing a Kia with a USB stick is just a remix of the epidemic of car theft and jacking in the 90's, etc.

NYC jail deaths at highest rate since 2000; hundreds have died at Rikers and other lockups over two decades

Even as the population of New York City jails declined over the past half decade, the death rate among detainees surged, according to fatality statistics provided to the Daily News. Death rates at …

www.nydailynews.com

It's not really tenable to say "prosecuting crime will cause more crime." It doesn't add up logically, and the evidence doesn't support it.

Click to shrink...

The problem is the nebulous term 'crime'. Ultimately we've thrown an army of cops at these issues over decades and these issues are still prevalent. You had rape kit backlogs in the hundreds of thousands, prosecutorial and police misconduct lawsuits hitting the bottom line of many municipalities, etc. Everyone wants to say its a 'new' problem but it's the same fucking problem for lots of communities.

Despite 'defunding' claims, police funding has increased in many U.S. cities

Politicians, pundits and police leaders across the country have blamed the rise in crime on the "defund the police" movement. But in most places, it never happened.

abc7ny.com

The American solution has been to treat extreme disenfranchised high poverty and crime areas as mini-police states where as long as the suburbs were 'safe' no one cares how to stop crime rolling down the conveyor belt down to our city planning regarding public transportation and highways.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

You're right.

But jailing youth does make them more likely to keep committing crimes.

Point Park University Online

online.pointpark.edu

We're not saying they should not see any punishment. But our current system breeds criminality. It's not data-driven. It's fear driven. Politics driven.

Restorative justice has been growing.

Click to shrink...

I'm for evidence based approaches that prioritize reducing harm to non violent people in the long term. It's fairly clear no matter how you slice it San Francisco is failing here.

 

[Kenai]

It's honestly a good idea, so long as it's not going to be another one of those things that gets pushed off on the teachers.

And as for the other issue, look at any thread about the effect of the pandemic on kids and you'd be shocked at how little people actually care about them.

Click to shrink...

I've been thinking about that for a long time. From those who effectively had their graduation ceremony and networking opportunities cancelled, to those who started in person education years after everyone else at their age, and everything in between. Before the pandemic wasn't good either and the hottest debates among certain circles is how to ban books calling out prejudice and bigotry.

Our public school systems are so important it should literally be criminal to treat them how they are being treated, but not enough people care. It can't be coincidence that primary school teachers are so underpaid (to get them to look elsewhere for a career) and institutions so underfunded that they will never be able to give kids the attention and care they need even when they want to. It's genuinely depressing.

 

[Swiggins]

Man what the fuck is happening in San Francisco?

 

[Booshka]

Thanks for replying. Very sorry about your own circumstances. I hope you are in a better place now.

It's only anecdotal but I have traveled a decent amount and that has included visiting several developing countries.

Totally unfounded but I personally feel many of these issues come from the fact that many of our kids don't have a family or community to watch over them. In a lot of places even when you only have one parent you will still have uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc that still live with you.

But my guess is unfounded. I am just curious as why we are often so violent in the US. It probably doesn't help that it's glorified but that same media is seen by most of the world so I don't think that's the main problem.

Click to shrink...

I read about how low social status and income inequality can have a greater impact on rates of violence rather than absolute poverty. The hyper inequality in America is quite unique. Here is a quick abstract I found after some googling, but I read a bit more in a Health Disparities class I took a few semesters ago.

Income inequality has been associated with both homicides and births to adolescents in the United States and with homicides internationally. We found that adolescent birth rates and general homicide rates were closely correlated with each other internationally (r= 0.95) and within the United States (r = 0.74) and with inequality internationally and within the United States. These results, coupled with no association with absolute income, suggested that violence and births to adolescents may reflect gender-differentiated responses to low social status and could be reduced by reducing income inequality.
Violence and births to adolescents seem to stand out as gender-differentiated markers of the corrosive effects of poverty among young people.1–3 Although adolescent births and levels of violence are strongly associated with poverty within developed countries, national rates of both violence and adolescent births are nevertheless higher in several wealthy countries compared with poor countries. In other words, homicides and adolescent pregnancies appear to be associated with relative rather than absolute poverty. Indeed, the degree of income distribution within a society has been linked to homicide rates within and outside the United States (see, for example, Hsieh and Pugh,4 Wilkinson et al.,5 Daly et al.,6 and Fajnzylber et al.7), but only within the United States for adolescent births.8,9 We decided to investigate how much these 2 social problems were related to each other and, if they have common roots, whether these roots might lie in relative or in absolute deprivation.

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https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2004.056721

 

[AaronMT]

Read the title and thought of Westfield SF Center. Visited SF twice and stayed near Powell Station and twice I thought that mall was sketchy as fuck.

 

[JaY P.]

Definitely a part of it, and another example of the harms of social media. However, what do we do about the punishment phase? If my nephew or son was violently beaten by a group of kids, I'd want prosecutions as would any decent parent. It fucking sucks since I know asking for prosecutions throws more minorities in the legal system, but we also can't have these types of behaviors continue without a response. We lack so many social and familial support structures that would prevent this shit from happening.

Click to shrink...

To be honest there is no silver bullet for this. I know that I take moments to teach my kids the importance of human decency and empathy. I put my kids in boxing to learn how to defend themselves and the to discipline to only use it for defending yourself. Their coach also instills respect for others. While I know many parents that try or of some great programs in my area, sometimes it really is the kid that just can't help themselves for one reason or another.

More often I am seeing ridiculous trends on social media that promote stupid actions. As parents my wife and I want our kids to know how to use social media because it is a powerful tool if used properly. We are always coaching our oldest to think critically when viewing social media. Good thing is our child keeps us up to date on the latest dumb trends and discuss them.

 

[CamberGreber]

Its gonna be extra tragic that after the dystopian apocalypse has fully taken hold that most of the future wars will be over what caused it and whos to blame. Humans never fail this.

Thats whats really sad.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Biggie wrote this in the early '90s and it's only gotten worse, fueled by social media along with ever-worsening economic conditions leaving parents even less time to parent their kids.

Back in the days our parents used to take care of us
Look at 'em now, they even fuckin' scared of us
Calling the city for help because they can't maintain
Damn, shit done changed

 

[collige]

I'm not qualified to answer that question outside of my personal experience. I'm sure it varies from family to family and person to person but for me it was a distinct lack of support for my single mother, causing her to often struggle to take care of me financially, and a poorly run education system. I was a "gifted" student but often faced issues getting into the good schools even though they recruited me. I needed to take a number of tests but wouldn't get the notice to take them until after they'd passed, or my mother couldn't afford the off season individual tests for me. That's not even getting into the fact that I rarely had food enough to eat. It's no wonder young people resort to crime when they can't even depend on a decent meal at home.

Click to shrink...

It's fucked up you had to go through all of this. The part about your family situation reminds me of how virtually every part of the pandemic has been harder on single parent households than it already was

https://www.washingtonpost.com/parenting/2022/01/29/single-parents-omicron/

Hayes-Birchler has read many news stories about the trials of parenting in the pandemic, she says, "and almost always there is one line somewhere that says, 'and this is what it's like for dual-parent households — for single parent households, it's even worse!' but then it rarely delves into what 'even worse' looks like."

Click to shrink...

She didn't see her reality represented in the support group, she says: "No one was talking about kids with major mental health issues. No one was like: 'I'm a single parent struggling, how do I handle this?' And every time I asked that, they'd be like, 'go to therapy —?'" She laughs wryly. "Okay. Thanks for the suggestion."

Click to shrink...

It's rough. And that's not to mention all the hundreds of thousands of kids who are now living in a single parent household because one of them was lost to Covid.

 

[loco]

I've been going to that mall for over 20 years and it's definitely a popular hangout for teens from all over the city since it's also a major train and bus transfer Hub.

 

[Keldroc]

I grew up near this mall. I remember when it was opened. It's never been like this in the sunset district and ingleside. Im sorry but fuck these fkn kids and I don't give a fk what broken environment they come from - that is no excuse. Elders & young ones in my extended family still frequent this place, but besides that, that whole surrounding community is a peaceful place and they don't deserve these fkn demons ruining it.

Click to shrink...

Oh get a grip. This is a result of essentially forced bussing yet again. I grew up there and while Stonestown didn't have much violence, Tanforan had tons of it regularly. The risk of being caught up in some shit was the price you paid for going to the dollar theater there when I was a teenager. None of the issues that caused it 30 years ago have been addressed, just shuffled around, so now you see it in a different gathering place. People aren't "demons."

 

[Blader]

Homelessness exacerbated by rising housing unaffordability, the lingering impacts of covid on kids' education and social development, fentanyl, anti-Asian violence — none of these factors are exclusive to San Francisco yet seem particularly acute there. Is there a reason for that or is it just self-selecting media/anecdotal bias? I have friends and family in a bunch of cities like New York, LA, Miami, and I live in Boston, but the anecdotes I hear and have seen of the direction SF has gone in the last couple years seem egregious compared to most other major cities here?

 

[diakyu]

It was so demoralizing working at a school where fights would break out a lot. Every time you think you get through to one of the kids they go home and are subject to just the worst shit imaginable delivered directly to their brain by their surroundings or phone then it's like you never even talked to them. It's already hard enough being a teenager as is but I really feel for these kids

 

[Scottoest]

That head stomp with both feet was brutal, even before you get to the part where it was like 5 v 1 and the 1 was on the ground trying to protect their head. Cowards. Hope the people just standing around gawking couldn't look themselves in the mirror the next day.

I have no idea what the catalyst is for these particular incidents (and the amount of out-of-ass conjecture is astonishing), but man alive does San Francisco have some real epidemic social problems it needs to fix either way. Should be ashamed to have an area of the country with so much concentrated wealth and technology, yet simultaneously horrible problems with homelessness, drug abuse, and whatever the hell this is.

 

[SchrodingersDog]

Not going to lie, I'm very much in camp jailtime for stuff like that.

Yes, I know a harsh sentence in itself is unlikely to rehabilitate violent offenders. But it's not about that whatsoever.
It's about justice for the victim too. If someone kills your partner, your child, or your parents, but you knew they'd never do it again if they were to walk free - would you really support that? I sure as hell wouldn't, I wouldn't really care if they had a major revelation and are guaranteed to be the best person ever immediately afterwards. A violent offence needs punishment. That punishment isn't necessarily some vehicle for rehabilitation.

Needless to say, that punishment needs to be followed by rehabilitation. And way more important, we need to try preventing such crimes altogether. But those things are imho not substitutes for the actual punishment - they're imho very different things, all of which are absolutely legitimate and important.

 

[squeakywheel]

I just filled out a government of Canada sponsored survey today that was asking for opinions on youth sentenced as adults and rehabilitative sentencing. I still don't know how I feel. If I were the victim's parents, I sure as hell would be demanding justice. At the same time these are kids and they are acting out in the worst way possible. In a mob like this, it's easy to get swept up and not think. I sure hope as hell they are remorseful the day after. If not, throw the book at 'em until they serve time and apologize to the victim's family. I grew up poor and my parents both worked two jobs so we were latchkey kids but holy were we ever afraid of my Dad. We knew not to do stupid shit and got home way before he finished his first shift and got our schoolwork done.

 

[StrangeADT]

Yup. More police are not the solution, and this thread will quickly turn into an excuse to shit on SF, homelessness, and the boogeyman of 'increased crime'.

Click to shrink...

Nobody should shit on SF. It already smells like piss and shit all the time. No need to add to the misery.

 

[Addie]

The problem is nobody cares about these kids.

Not to dig up old 2020 primary bullshit, but perhaps one of the more heartbreaking moments of the primary to me was the reaction on the left to Kamala Harris' proposal to expand funding to public schools on the condition the expand after school programs to 6PM:



The rising cost of living in the US, compounded by the decades long stagnation in wages has created an environment where parents are working longer and longer hours. The erosion of social programs in this country, compounded by the social shift away from religious institutions (that previously filled this role) and other forms of communal caregiving has created a situation where not only do these kids have nowhere to go when they're not in school, it's actually much worse: these kids have nowhere to go, and nobody wants them. This is a reality that we have known about since I was a child, and here we had a major candidate, a former successful progressive DA and prosecutor for the Bay Area (hmmm, I wonder if this informed her insight at all), proposing major legislation that was laser targeted at helping these kids and not just throwing more cops at them…and the reaction on the left was to laugh at her for it, criticize the legislation for not being an out-of-the-box perfect solution (when is it ever?), or twisted the intent of the legislation to claim it would put more burden on teachers (the legislation addressed this; it didn't).

Seriously, read the thread on this legislation that floated around on Era at the time. In hindsight, it's incredibly sad.

This isn't intended to be a gotcha or an 11th hour defense of Kamala Harris. The intent here is to point out that when it comes to these kids, the lack of supervision, the lack of care….we know what the problems are. We know what the solutions are. What can we do about this? is the wrong question, because we already know the answer: a lot. There's a lot we could do.

The right question to ask is what are we willing to do? And the answer to that is fucking tragic.

And it just really sucks to watch the cycle perpetuate over and fucking over again. Because when you operate in these communities, when you have a window into these kids' lives…for every horrific instance of violence and neglect that makes it to national news like what we see here, you see the dozen steps that could have been taken. The dozen ways we as a pubic could have intervened. The signs we could have paid attention to, the funding we could have voted for, the issues we could have prioritized.

And then you realize that nobody cares. Because people in this country do not care about kids until they can be scapegoated or used for tax credits. And until we deal with that? Won't none of this shit change. The consequences of our collective neglect will build up to these horrific tragedies. People will rightfully and understandably be made afraid. The "More Cops!" button will get pushed. The cycle will repeat.

And I'm just so fucking tired and sad.

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Just quoting you with a sad nod, remembering our conversation however long ago it was about the group of teens in Philly beating an old man to death.

Even if it's true (and it might not be true) that a few of these kids involved in that incident, this one, or whatever the inevitable next one will be are irrevocably trending towards being a "lost cause"... well, I don't understand why people push for solutions that aren't focused on ensuring the next cohort after them don't suffer the same fate. Because for every kid who's enjoyed kicking puppies since he could walk, there's countless more who never had a chance in the first place.

entremet 's comment about lack of Third Spaces is just completely correct.

And like you said, no one's arguing for no consequences. I'm probably on the "harder" side, because I think there should be a measured way to mentor, manage, and assist minors going through the juvenile court system that doesn't end when they turn 18. (Note that I mean mentoring and managing, not immediate shunting into the adult criminal justice system.)

But even if we did lock up these kids and throw away the key for a long while, that does literally nothing to prevent the cycle from continuing.

I simply don't see how it's logically consistent to expend tax dollars and resources on punishing the present cohort without also buying down the risk that the next age cohort will do the same thing. It's absurd.

 

[NetMapel]

I am still uncertain about what the average social economic situations are with those teens in the videos. Any particular reasons why people here are assuming homelessness and poor? Maybe I am wrong, but if they are children attending nearby schools, then their family must live have a place nearby as well, right? Isn't the general population of SF on the wealthier side? What if these kids are from middle to upper middle households?

 

[bangai-o]

In some of our prior threads, posts dislike using "mental disability" as an excuse for bad behavior because most people with mental disabilities do not engage in bad behaviors. It should be considered similar here. Most children who grow up in low income adverse situations do not engage in bad behaviors.

 

[freetacos]

Nobody should shit on SF. It already smells like piss and shit all the time. No need to add to the misery.

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Proud of you for that one. Really flexing your comedic chops. #gottem

 

[RedMercury]

That head stomp with both feet was brutal, even before you get to the part where it was like 5 v 1 and the 1 was on the ground trying to protect their head. Cowards. Hope the people just standing around gawking couldn't look themselves in the mirror the next day.

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The average person is not going to jump into a 1v5 or whatever it was situation

In some of our prior threads, posts dislike using "mental disability" as an excuse for bad behavior because most people with mental disabilities do not engage in bad behaviors. It should be considered similar here. Most children who grow up in low income adverse situations do not engage in bad behaviors.

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I dunno that anyone said anything about mental disabilities right, did they?