I agree. We all just didn't realize it because numbers don't pop up every time you hit an enemy.
Ahoy voiceovers are always great, very clear and considered.
I do like how this video brings up DOOM Clones, Roguelikes etc. through the lens of "Is DOOM a DOOM Clone? If not then what is it?"
It can't be like the thing because it is the thing, it's a recursive loop.
Ahoy is practically best in the business at VO, I could listen to Stuart read the phonebook and find it compelling.
The channel is the personification of Quality > Quantity
They made 3 of these. They made a sequel to that game plus one for Wolfenstein that links it up to the Doom universe properly.
Doom RPG - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Carmack and Romero were heavily into D&D during this period so weirdly it kinda fits. You can even see elements of a DM dungeon design in the level and campaign design.
That's a very reductive way to think of RPGs. Doom is pretty close to a real time Akalabeth. Which might be one of the the first first person perspective rpgs.
I mean... apart from the fact that Doom doesn't have stats or pretty much any of the things in Akalabeth, and instead has non-stop waves of enemies, a strict and fairly straightforward level design (pre-Final Doom or Doom 2 at least), and a completely and totally different way of interacting with the game world?
The pretzel-twisting, back-breaking logic needed to ask the question "What genre is doom?" and come up with "Action RPG" instead of "first person shooter" only exists to serve one purpose: Coming up with a nice title and thumbnail for a successful, high-view count YouTube video. I'll give the YouTuber props though: At least he went this route, instead of drama farming for clicks.
If you read the original design doc for doom or look into some of the stuff they were planning, the game was clearly designed as a proper action rpg but cut back. I think presuming that RPGs have to be a spreadsheet like game genre with "leveling up" and math like turned based combat is incredibly reductive.
Similarily like Quake which was overtly based on a tabletop game's world but then pared back to an FPS.
Similarily like Quake which was overtly based on a tabletop game's world but then pared back to an FPS.
At least until a new name is all agreed upon, paradoxically.
The Dark Souls game are all "Souls-likes" lol
Elden Ring is a Souls-like.
Doom has more in common with Akalabeth than things it does not.
Have you played the original Akalabeth? Stats do basically nothing in Akalabeth. It's basically endless rooms of monsters in the dungeon, which 95% of the game First person attack monster and move around a maze. It's as simple as you can get. Both are really action RPGs or adventure games which is basically the really.
Some of the most interesting RPGs don't have anything to do with stats/levels, DnD style progression. Hell tons of pen and paper RPGs lean more into storytelling than DnD, like Quest and Cthulhu Dark. Some have no stats/levels at all. RPG just means role playing game. You can don't levels/classes/skills for that.
Plenty of things can do that in a way that doesn't require stats and levels and there many things with stats and levels that I would never classify as an RPG. Like the XCOM 2 has character classes, levels, stats, gear but it would be silly to call it an RPG.
The video's point was to show how certain key games create the large amount of genres we have today. Early 80-90's classifications are messier as there are less genres categories that has evolved at that time.
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I didn't say RPGs have to have those things. I said Akalabeth has those things, which it absolutely freaking does. Doom and Akalabeth only resemble each other in the most superficial way imaginable. I know you want to educate me about this, but it's pointless, because it's irrelevant to whether or not Doom and Akalabeth are similar. I didn't think RPGs have to have levels or stats/whatever else to begin with.
Calling Doom an Action RPG is absolutely meaningless. The whole point of having genre distinctions is to actually make a distinction. If you shove Doom into the Action RPG box instead of the First-Person Shooter box, you basically render both genre descriptions meaningless.
If its "pared back to an FPS" its not an RPG anymore.
Its worth noting inspiration and overlapping elements with RPGs but that's not enough to slot the final product in the genre. The idea of what an "action RPG" was at the time was also much narrower than today (Hydlide, Ys, etc., and NOT Gauntlet, Golden Axe, or Tower of Druaga) so the label would just be nearly as anachronistic as FPS.
corridor shooter.
So the whole premise "it can't be a doom clone" just fails, as I remember clearly it being called a corridor shooter, and all "doom clones" were mainly refered to as corridor shooters as well (obviously, in the media I consumed at the time, which was mostly UK base stuff from EMAP publishing).
The RPG conclusion is just a cop out, every game is an RPG. That's a nonsense answer, it's like saying it's genre is "videogame".
So the whole premise "it can't be a doom clone" just fails, as I remember clearly it being called a corridor shooter, and all "doom clones" were mainly refered to as corridor shooters as well (obviously, in the media I consumed at the time, which was mostly UK base stuff from EMAP publishing).
The RPG conclusion is just a cop out, every game is an RPG. That's a nonsense answer, it's like saying it's genre is "videogame".
DOOM isn't an Action-RPG, it is an Action-Adventure.
Videogame genres should be defined, how you progress or "win" in it. In DOOM you fight enemies, which try to stop you (Action), and explore the map to find keys to advance (Adventure). There aren't any meaningful stats in DOOM, which dictate your progress. If you have better armor isn't important for the overall game. If enemies would do more damage over time and you need better armor to keep up, then it would be closer to a RPG.
Videogame genres should be defined, how you progress or "win" in it. In DOOM you fight enemies, which try to stop you (Action), and explore the map to find keys to advance (Adventure). There aren't any meaningful stats in DOOM, which dictate your progress. If you have better armor isn't important for the overall game. If enemies would do more damage over time and you need better armor to keep up, then it would be closer to a RPG.