Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,853
How, this far after the fact, are there still people pushing this narrative?
I watched a video of a guy fitting a screen and suddenly withdrawing for no real reason, dropping the screen on a screwdriver underneath. It looks completely staged, especially his reaction to having broken it.

Not that that was the focus of my post, but since you asked that's why.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
I watched a video of a guy fitting a screen and suddenly withdrawing for no real reason, dropping the screen on a screwdriver underneath. It looks completely staged, especially his reaction to having broken it.

Not that that was the focus of my post, but since you asked that's why.
If you watched the video you'd have seen that Linus specifically calls out that that was a cheesy CSI style recreation staged for the intro if the first video. He specifically addresses it.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,725
Tel Aviv
Breaking a product and then feeling like you have a god-given right to have it repaired (even if paid) by the manufacturer? What? I would have thought that breaking a product in multiple places and then demanding a paid repair would be something far more companies than just Apple would refuse.

Like if I opened up my PS4 or any other electronic device and broke it in multiple places before dropping it and breaking it further. I wouldn't expect whoever to just do a repair for money. Great if they could but certainly wouldn't expect it.

Maybe I'm wrong though and I'm free to tinker and potentially fuck up whatever I want and expect a repair as long as I can afford it, and expect that to be cheaper than buying a new one.
If I bought any expensive product and I broke parts of it, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to be able to get it fixed for a price, as long as it's less than buying a new one. It's parts, you can replace parts - Even a lot of parts. It's not a god-given right, it's just how it should be, anything else is clearly anti-consumer, since you're forcing the consumer to pay for a new product despite plenty of the parts still working.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,853
If I bought any expensive product and I broke parts of it, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to be able to get it fixed for a price, as long as it's less than buying a new one. It's parts, you can replace parts - Even a lot of parts. It's not a god-given right, it's just how it should be, anything else is clearly anti-consumer, since you're forcing the consumer to pay for a new product despite plenty of the parts still working.
Agree for the most part, up until the bold. For me that's a) take care of your stuff and b) if the cost or difficulty of repair makes it not that viable then I wouldn't see it as an expectation. Obviously it would be better if it happened everywhere for everything, but my point is that I don't see it as that a surprising thing, rather I would be surprised if this were limited to just Apple. That I don't know though, whether it is. The outrage is positioned as though it is but that would genuinely be a surprise to me.

That said I've never broken an electronic outside of warranty to the extent that iMac Pro is broken and haven't been in a situation to have that knowledge. Guess I've just never really thought much about it and assumed 'shit's on you' if you break it and you just hope they're open to repairing it.
 

Dingens

Circumventing ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
Seems to be a theme with SV companies. Tesla is going down a very similar path.
Yeah, you may have bought a product, but you don't really own it.
I don't particularly like Linus, but apples bullshit is even more infuriating than his voice. It needs to be called out, no matter by whom
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,725
Tel Aviv
Agree for the most part, up until the bold. For me that's a) take care of your stuff and b) if the cost or difficulty of repair makes it not that viable then I wouldn't see it as an expectation. Obviously it would be better if it happened everywhere for everything, but my point is that I don't see it as that a surprising thing, rather I would be surprised if this were limited to just Apple. That I don't know though, whether it is. The outrage is positioned as though it is but that would genuinely be a surprise to me.

That said I've never broken an electronic outside of warranty to the extent that iMac Pro is broken and haven't been in a situation to have that knowledge. Guess I've just never really thought much about it and assumed 'shit's on you' if you break it and you just hope they're open to repairing it.
I have no idea if it's just Apple, maybe other companies do that, It'll piss me off just the same it was Microsoft or Sony or whatever. The outrage is positioned against Apple in this case because... The thing Linus broke was an Apple product. No one necessarily said this is exclusive to Apple.
a) "take care of your stuff" is bullshit and anti-consumer. Accidents happen.
b) If the cost of the parts + labor is more than the product, I would understand a refusal to fix the item. That's not the case here and is very seldom the case. In this case, the total for the parts and labor according to Linus is 3200, much less than buying a new iMac Pro.

I never broke anything that badly either, but if I did and I got that response from Apple, I'd be super pissed. Shit is still very much on me, since I'll have to pay for the repairs, but there has to be a limit for the amount of shit that has to be on me, there's no reason to have the whole bucket of shit be on me.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,297
Cupertino needs to get their shit together, it's been years since I bought a Cupertino computer made at their famous campus in Cupertino, CA and I don't expect to be sending any money to Cupertino's fancy new headquarters in Cupertino, CA until the top brass at Cupertino make some big changes about how they market and sell Cupertino products around the world.

It's hard to take Linus seriously for anything though, I'm curious if everything he states about Apple's policy is accurate, I'd like to see someone like Consumer Reports verify everything, given both his clickbait style and the insane level of anticonsumer bs he's claiming they get away with. Mostly just as a second opinion
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,853
I have no idea if it's just Apple, maybe other companies do that, It'll piss me off just the same it was Microsoft or Sony or whatever. The outrage is positioned against Apple in this case because... The thing Linus broke was an Apple product. No one necessarily said this is exclusive to Apple.
If this was common you'd expect less outrage since it would be standard. As there is outrage it leads me to believe this isn't standard across companies. I thought it would be. I am surprised. I'm not defending Apple the company I'm saying that it surprises me that this presumably isn't the case for most others.

a) "take care of your stuff" is bullshit and anti-consumer. Accidents happen.
As I said it would be great if everything in the world was pro-consumer. It isn't though, and to some extent you have to take responsibility. If you break your product and you're left with a broken product then in my mind, that sucks but that's on you. You hope that they can repair it for a reasonable price but it wouldn't be an expectation that they must do so.
 

Wololo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
1,564
Did the guy who broke it get fired? Havent seen him in any video since.
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,059
I don't really see how someone who put the work in and built a literal company from the ground up - he employs like 20+ people in an office they helped build and design - is a a 'sponsored brat.'
If you don't think he's a brat, then you don't. I had to stop watching his videos because of the extremely poor smug attitude he carries around in a lot of them, the Apple fiasco for example. Poor scripting, poor delivery. If he would just act professional, and not put these scripted problematic issues, then I can take him seriously. He's a bad actor. That's my person feeling on it. If anyone thinks he's awesome, does great work, etc., then great, they like his stuff. I personally don't.

If you want to talk solely about the issue of Apple making it hard to repair their products, I agree it's pretty shitty.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,406
Germany
He rebukes arguments made against his first video.

1. "They didn't repair it because repairing it would cost more than the entire unit." Untrue and also ridiculous.

2. "They didn't repair it because of liability issues." So Apple are literally incapable of fixing their own products?

3. "The Apple-authorized service providers didn't have the certifications yet to repair it." True with respect to Linus' local AASP, but even after they got the certifications, replacing the logic board (because of a broken warranty sticker) means having to pay for both a new CPU and new RAM because of Apple's draconian anti-repair restrictions, making the replacement cost $4,600.

Thanks!

Still mind blowing that people defend the companies designing and building products like this.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,078
BMW is so full of $#@% and won't fix my car. They're telling me my only option is to pay $65K for a new one.
bmw-missing-its-rear-wheel-DDABMG.jpg
Your picture was overkill, so I fixed it for you. The screen is broken, yet Apple are charging the same amount for the repair as an entire new computer. This would be like BMW charging you $65K for a new set of tires.
 

Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
Did the guy who broke it get fired? Havent seen him in any video since.
Nah, he's still around I think. Linus isn't the type to fire someone over this. It's a risky process and accidents happen. I know Linus himself was sweating bullets when they were doing their teardown of the 5k iMac a few years ago, so I'm sure he knew how difficult that kind of work might be. The guy is also a former Apple repair tech, which goes to show just how difficult working on Apple products can be.

If Apple is going to market the iMac Pro as a workstation, they should have the resources in place to service it like a workstation. Whatever your opinion of his style of presentation or business, Linus raised a lot of valid points, and it's not unreasonable to expect a major corporation that is selling a product as a professional workstation to offer reasonable repair solutions and support. Warranty service doesn't apply here, sure, but even if something voids warranty the answer shouldn't be "go out and buy a new one." That's just wasteful, greedy, and an example of operating in bad faith.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
Fucking wow at "the right side of history". This isn't civil rights people.

Linus voided his warranty. He *knew* that. He also knew it was brand new hardware, and servicing it would be tough.

He's made enough money on this controversy to buy 2 iMac Pros, full price. I have zero sympathy for his milking this "for a repair". This isn't for principals, it's for profit. It's a work.

Apple's policies are shit, but siding with him on this is kind of silly. Especially when he's manufacturing outrage for profit.
 

Deleted member 17491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,099

Super Craig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
660
Fucking wow at "the right side of history". This isn't civil rights people.

Linus voided his warranty. He *knew* that. He also knew it was brand new hardware, and servicing it would be tough.

He's made enough money on this controversy to buy 2 iMac Pros, full price. I have zero sympathy for his milking this "for a repair". This isn't for principals, it's for profit. It's a work.

Apple's policies are shit, but siding with him on this is kind of silly. Especially when he's manufacturing outrage for profit.
How much money did he make then?
 

fade

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,516
Fucking wow at "the right side of history". This isn't civil rights people.

Linus voided his warranty. He *knew* that. He also knew it was brand new hardware, and servicing it would be tough.

He's made enough money on this controversy to buy 2 iMac Pros, full price. I have zero sympathy for his milking this "for a repair". This isn't for principals, it's for profit. It's a work.

Apple's policies are shit, but siding with him on this is kind of silly. Especially when he's manufacturing outrage for profit.

The point is how much it would cost someone that's not Linus. Not everyone has a youtube channel that can cover the costs of a broken professional workstation. If you agree Apple's policies are shit you are in essence siding with Linus. That's the whole point of the video.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,682
If LTT had to milk views to make their money back they couldn't stay afloat. They are probably too big now to pay salaries just with YouTube views, it is sponsored content where is at. Even a smaller studio like Gamer Nexus has to sell merchandise, imagine having 20+ employees. Making this is not giving them more money than another series of Intel Optane sponsored benchmarks.
 

DorkyMohr

User requested ban
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
110
My head was swimming a little bit at the price comparisons but I'd like to try to play devil's advocate. When it comes to the "repair cost may be more than the unit itself" I wonder if it's possible with the amount of red tape that Apple has set up for itself and it's partners, that all the increased procedures that it did actually drive up the price to repair beyond the cost of a new unit. Apple's still in the wrong here and I hope they get taken to task with Right to Repair laws.
 

Gaming_Groove

Member
Apr 4, 2018
2,813
This may be an interesting comparison. Louis Rossmann dumped a quart of water on a Lenovo Thinkpad P50 to test its durability. It was a refurb unit with no extended warranty or service plan. It still worked for months, but when it eventually quit on him Lenovo repaired it completely free of charge including expedited shipping both ways. You could maybe argue that they were aware of who he was and just threw him a bone, but he's pretty small time compared to someone like Linus. It's a mixed bag in the comments section with many saying they get the same level of service and others suspecting Louis got a deal. These are business/workstation computers though, and they have a reputation for being durable/reliable, so it's likely to maintain that image they just do this sort of thing.

 

Maynerd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,542
Redmond, WA
Apple is being dumb. How much does it cost to manufacture one of these devices? 50% of MSRP? Just charge him cost, give him a new one, and take the old one back and harvest parts from it. They already made money on the guy when he bought it the first time. The second time they would make some money on the parts harvesting. Everyone wins?
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
Fucking wow at "the right side of history". This isn't civil rights people.

Linus voided his warranty. He *knew* that. He also knew it was brand new hardware, and servicing it would be tough.

He's made enough money on this controversy to buy 2 iMac Pros, full price. I have zero sympathy for his milking this "for a repair". This isn't for principals, it's for profit. It's a work.

Apple's policies are shit, but siding with him on this is kind of silly. Especially when he's manufacturing outrage for profit.

-Linus surely has enough money to buy 100 iMac Pros, that's not the point here.

-Servicing shouldn't be 'tough'. Apple is a pretty big company, they should have planned the servicing/repair system months before release of any given product.

-Of course the video is for profit. A newspapers and tv news and documentaries are also for profit, it doesn't automatically means the content can't be useful and informative (apart from entertaining).

If you believe Apple's policies are shit, then you are siding with him, that's his entire point. There isn't a lot of outrage manufacturing, there is just a normal, natural amount of outrage there should be against a company that seems to be anti-consumer and anti-environment.
 

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
It's appalling customer service, the mount issue was worse.
But they screwed up and are willing to pay and they won't touch it? It's crazy.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,905
This just shows the sheer incompetence of Apple and their support staff for high-end non-mainstream equipment such as the iMac Pro.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,812
If I bought any expensive product and I broke parts of it, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to be able to get it fixed for a price, as long as it's less than buying a new one. It's parts, you can replace parts - Even a lot of parts. It's not a god-given right, it's just how it should be, anything else is clearly anti-consumer, since you're forcing the consumer to pay for a new product despite plenty of the parts still working.

Economic total loss is a thing.
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,059
The point is how much it would cost someone that's not Linus. Not everyone has a youtube channel that can cover the costs of a broken professional workstation. If you agree Apple's policies are shit you are in essence siding with Linus. That's the whole point of the video.
Not everyone takes apart an all-in-one computer while at the same time knowing that the company they bought that computer from has ZERO self repair channels and shitty authorized repair channels.
 

Deleted member 4044

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,121
I hate this trend of computers that cannot be easily repaired and are just disposable items, like phones and tablets.

LinusTechTips videos range from informative to annoying/pandering (to me at least) but I side with them in this case. They broke the iMac Pro, they owned up to it, they wanted to pay for the repair. Cupertino needs to have a support system in place as once these devices are in consumers' hands, situations like this can arise. The second video does a good job of going further into their interactions with Cupertino. Just watch and see the strong arming that Cupertino does with its authorized repair partners.
 
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Skulldead

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,482
The most funny thing is he always mention: "We are going to pay apple, this is our fault, this is not even for waranty".... and they are still not able to get it repair. This part 2 story is even more insane.... Apple should be ashamed, this is bad pub for them because of i'm pretty sure a lot of people decide just not to buy this because of this story (this is the second popular story, he mention another one i saw a couple month ago on the second video).
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,059
This is why you have choices. You should research these things before putting money down on a computer so you know where you stand if something were to happen to your computer. Should I buy a warranty? Can I skip the warranty and do the repairs myself? etc.

Do you want to buy an iMac and were you planning on voiding the warranty, not having a service plan, all without knowing if you can even buy parts to replace bad elements?
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,881
Den Haag, Netherlands
As I said it would be great if everything in the world was pro-consumer. It isn't though, and to some extent you have to take responsibility. If you break your product and you're left with a broken product then in my mind, that sucks but that's on you. You hope that they can repair it for a reasonable price but it wouldn't be an expectation that they must do so.
No other fucking company would DEMAND you to rebuy the entire goddamned product because you broke part of it. Apple is breaking the law. That's it.
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,059
What is the point you are trying to make exactly?
That neither my post or the bold I quoted are normal circumstances at all.
The most funny thing is he always mention: "We are going to pay apple, this is our fault, this is not even for waranty".... and they are still not able to get it repair. This part 2 story is even more insane.... Apple should be ashamed, this is bad pub for them because of i'm pretty sure a lot of people decide just not to buy this because of this story (this is the second popular story, he mention another one i saw a couple month ago on the second video).
This hasn't done anything beyond the reach of his youtube channel and of those viewers, the people that don't like Apple anyways. Let's take a survey and ask how many people were planning on spending $5k for an iMac, were planning on voiding the warranty, knowing it wouldn't be repaired, so they decided not to buy it.
 

Deleted member 11934

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,045
This is why you have choices. You should research these things before putting money down on a computer so you know where you stand if something were to happen to your computer. Should I buy a warranty? Can I skip the warranty and do the repairs myself? etc.

Do you want to buy an iMac and were you planning on voiding the warranty, not having a service plan, all without knowing if you can even buy parts to replace bad elements?
Don't buy a computer if they can't provide repairs, even if its their fault. And considering it's not even a good deal, not bothering is a net profit all around.