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YouTuber Linus breaks his iMac Pro, wants it to be repaired but Apple refuses
- Thread starter Redhead On Moped
- Start date
Yeah, it's an old thing, back then when Microsoft was also called Redmond in the 90s too.
It's illegal in the US to place warranty if removed stickers on products.
Which Apple is doing, as pointed out in the video.
In my case specifically, they patently violated the Sale of Goods Act. Their shitty hard drive cable broke when I replaced the hard drive, they refused repair under their extended warranty programme and told me to buy a new bloody laptop because they "couldn't touch a third party component", which is absolutely absurd.
Which doesn't really apply here where the owner wants to pay for the repair.
We use Lenovo Business plans and new notebooks and Lenovo has been shit the past 4 years so I am also not sure if that video is not...well sponsored. We have to pay for every shit too and no warranty? Welp! Get fucked.
That's the reason we changed to Dell lol
Alright, makes sense. Thanks for the examples guys.
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone defending Apples shitty policies.
It's NOT illegal to place warrant void stickers in the USA. That link only provides information that they COULD be a no-no, not that they aren't lol. It says the stickers can't say that only specific parts or services can be used for warranty purposes. There's more to it, but nothing stating that warranty void stickers are illegal per se.
Read the text from the link. It isn't anything as being presented in this thread.
I find it very strange that it triggers people so. Journalists often refer to Microsoft as Redmond, Porsche as Stuttgart, AMG as Affalterbach etc. How is it such a strange thing to so many reset posters? Is this forum literally the only exposure many people have to media?
Let me get this straight:
How?
Are you aware that it's possible to like the products of a company while at the same time being critical of their bullshit? It's not that hard, people. Like, I don't get it. If you like Apple, wouldn't you want them to be a better company with not shitty policies?
- Apple refuses to service their own product, even if you are willing to pay for the repair
- It's proven that the repair would NOT cost more than the product
- If you are unfortunate enough to be an AASP, Apple will not even allow you to have stock of their parts
- You have to order the parts when you require them, thus delaying everything for weeks and making you look bad.
- This is all done so that people can't possibly do home repairs. They want people to not be able to fulfil their right to repair and the AASP will pay the price.
- If you don't comply you face a fine or even legal action
- They have such a big fear based system that barely any AASP is willing to talk about it
- This is factually shitty for everyone and potentially illegal.
How?
Are you aware that it's possible to like the products of a company while at the same time being critical of their bullshit? It's not that hard, people. Like, I don't get it. If you like Apple, wouldn't you want them to be a better company with not shitty policies?
Yeah, Linus, rich as fuck and with every company begging him to review and show off their stuff, with partnerships left and right, is the prime example of a "loser".
The only way a computer product should cost more to repair than it costs to buy new is if
1) The entire product is completely totaled, shattered into a metaphorical million pieces so as literally every component has incurred physical damage that can't be repaired or salvaged.
2) The product is SO OLD that parts become exceedingly rare, driving the prices of those parts sky high or outright impossible to find (see how Nintendo kept repairing old Famicoms for upwards of 25 years before stopping for this reason)
Apple are being complete shits with this and are just trying to get people to buy another one rather than repair it themselves like any respectable tech company would do for a work-station computer.
1) The entire product is completely totaled, shattered into a metaphorical million pieces so as literally every component has incurred physical damage that can't be repaired or salvaged.
2) The product is SO OLD that parts become exceedingly rare, driving the prices of those parts sky high or outright impossible to find (see how Nintendo kept repairing old Famicoms for upwards of 25 years before stopping for this reason)
Apple are being complete shits with this and are just trying to get people to buy another one rather than repair it themselves like any respectable tech company would do for a work-station computer.
Let's say the same damage occurred due to dropping it accidentally (or some other reason that caused it to become damaged that way). Would you still hold the same stance?
Good morning sunshine.
- This could happen to someone who drops their iMac, accidentally hits the screen and shatters it, etc.
- Part of what we are complaining is that they have zero self repair channels and shitty authorised repair channels. That's the whole point. You are essentially saying that we shouldn't complain about the consequences of a problem because the cause of the problem exists.
These stickers are placed in such a way to let the manufacturer know that the device in question was opened, thus allowing them to inform customers that their warranty was voided by opening their device. That is illegal.
Take the PS4 for example, its sticker is on the back where the shell comes together.
If that sticker is modified in any way, Sony (at least up until the FCC sent that warning out back in April), was refusing to honor the consoles warranty.
That's a direct violation of the Magnuson–Moss Act. Companies have been getting away with it for years because nobody would call them out on it.
Are you not aware that this is a frequent occurrence? Have you heard of your car getting totaled?
...
Being totaled means cost of repairs > cost of getting a new one. It is not equivalent to "we cannot repair your car".
Edit: here was my follow-up post.
Maybe he didn't know how bad it was and that's the point of the video? I wasn't aware of it and I've owned several macs. LTT is a mostly DIY channel so they rarely deal with apple's computer stuff. The info about how poorly they treat authorized service people was pretty appalling if true. Anti-consumer and anti-small business. Why the fuck shouldn't an authorized repair person be able to have common parts in stock? Why should they have to return the broken part to not get charged 3x the real cost?
So in a way, doesn't this make his presentation of facts in question since he's admitting to embellishing things?
It is because they want to control who is able to repair their products. They don't want spare parts getting out. They would rather charge someone $300 to repair something an unlicensed technician could do for a fraction of the cost. It's all about money. They have so many people defending them when they screw them over it's no wonder they are the most profitable company on the planet.
You could certainly think that way if you want, but it seems to me they're just trying to make an otherwise dry video about corporate policy a little entertaining and easier to follow.
Except, they allow 3rd parties to repair iphone screens and that doesn't even void the warranty. Their computer sales are a small fraction of phone sales, and computer repairs are a small fraction of computer sales. Seems like a shitty thing to do for what nets them, what, 20 million bucks a year?
His "presentation of the facts" included cheesy special effects not intended to decieve. It was a dramatic recreation.
They actually don't. You have to be an Apple Service Provider (ASP) to be able to repair any Apple product.
Also, the ASP has to order the replacement screen from Apple, as they're not allowed to keep them on hand.
Apple is actually going so far as to put their logo on the display cable of iPhones to prevent non ASP's from buying refurbished screens from overseas (they claim the screens are counterfeit).
Apple is doing everything in their power (both legal and illegal) to prevent anyone from repairing their devices via means that Apple can't control.
Those that are accusing of Linus of this and that for views... You realize that if Apple was not a dick from the beginning, the first video would probably not even exist? He wanted to PAY for a repair. He would not have made those reenacments if he got what he wanted.
There's no defense for apple on this. I don't care if you think the guy made this for views or profit, it really does not matter in the end because it shows that if you're the owner of an imac pro, you'll be fucked in the ass if you have an accident with it. He was actually lucky to have the circuit board under the table at that price, because with apple policies, you would better pay for a brand new computer. Which is RIDICULOUS.
I own an Apple TV 4k, Iphone SE, Macbook pro 13 retina from 2014.
My last experience with apple consumer service? In spring 2017, 3 weeks passed my apple care on the macbook pro, the trackpad is "jammed", as in i cannot press the trackpad anymore. I read on the internet that it might be dust so, i'm guessing this is an easy repair for the "genius" bar. I take an appointment with them for repair. So i go there, it's not dust at all, it's the battery.. WUT. The "manager" of the genius bar, tells me that it's normal, that the battery expand as they age.
Now hear me out, i was in my 3rd year of electrical engineering degree and over 13 years of experience in an engineering conception department at multi-billion international company.
Yes, a battery will expand with age. If the battery expands fast enough that after 3 years of usage it blocks fonctionalities of the laptop, it's VERY BAD ENGINEERING, especially since now the solution is to remove the full top because some genius engineer thought it was a nice idea to solder everything. There's no defending this. I had to pay the fucking ridiculous price, with no rebate from the now expired apple care (3 weeks earlier) to repair it because i was at school, it's my main computer and all files/projects are on it and i NEED it functional, on top of not wanting a battery to explode in my face because it compressed on the case so much that it bent the aluminium chassis (again wtf, after 3 years??).
Unless i re-hear good feedback from apple consumer service, and youtube is showing me so far that it's a real mess right now, i'm not rebuying from them.. except apple TV, because what can break from that..
There's no defense for apple on this. I don't care if you think the guy made this for views or profit, it really does not matter in the end because it shows that if you're the owner of an imac pro, you'll be fucked in the ass if you have an accident with it. He was actually lucky to have the circuit board under the table at that price, because with apple policies, you would better pay for a brand new computer. Which is RIDICULOUS.
I own an Apple TV 4k, Iphone SE, Macbook pro 13 retina from 2014.
My last experience with apple consumer service? In spring 2017, 3 weeks passed my apple care on the macbook pro, the trackpad is "jammed", as in i cannot press the trackpad anymore. I read on the internet that it might be dust so, i'm guessing this is an easy repair for the "genius" bar. I take an appointment with them for repair. So i go there, it's not dust at all, it's the battery.. WUT. The "manager" of the genius bar, tells me that it's normal, that the battery expand as they age.
Now hear me out, i was in my 3rd year of electrical engineering degree and over 13 years of experience in an engineering conception department at multi-billion international company.
Yes, a battery will expand with age. If the battery expands fast enough that after 3 years of usage it blocks fonctionalities of the laptop, it's VERY BAD ENGINEERING, especially since now the solution is to remove the full top because some genius engineer thought it was a nice idea to solder everything. There's no defending this. I had to pay the fucking ridiculous price, with no rebate from the now expired apple care (3 weeks earlier) to repair it because i was at school, it's my main computer and all files/projects are on it and i NEED it functional, on top of not wanting a battery to explode in my face because it compressed on the case so much that it bent the aluminium chassis (again wtf, after 3 years??).
Unless i re-hear good feedback from apple consumer service, and youtube is showing me so far that it's a real mess right now, i'm not rebuying from them.. except apple TV, because what can break from that..
My point was him playing up the scene created a perception to the video, including my own, which may have swayed how people took the rest of the video. I'm not saying he intended to deceive, just how these tactics can sway an entire presentation. Not to mention that same kind of cheese recreation is the same shit people get on regular media channels for.
No.
The recreation was not represented as a presentation of fact.
Them presenting the facts of what happens is their presentation of facts.
But they didn't disclose it was a recreation until well after the fact, so yes it could be seen as people interpreting it as fact.
I still say that if he phrased a certain part of his journey a certain way to an AppleCare Senior Advisor, he could've landed a CS Code that would've paid for the entire repair via an AASP (even if he had to wait on the local AASP to be certified first). I issued those things rather liberally during my AppleCare days.
It was painfully clear it was a recreation. Are you kidding me right now?
Feel free to regard this as bad customer service, but you are so very wrong otherwise.
- I make a video demonstrating how luxury furniture is manufactured. I drill holes in the center of a $6000 kitchen table, that furniture company is not breaking the law by regarding it as a total loss and providing no path for me to have it repaired.
- If I mistakenly rip a $3000 dress. The designer has no obligation to provide guidance on how to restore it, offer a replacement at the same price, or find me a tailor.
- I buy a $1000 golf club. I bend the club 20 degrees to see how it would improve my game. Hooray if I can find someone to repair it, but the pro shop and club maker are within their rights to tell me to pound sand.
The idea that 'business/workstation' computers needing to look reliable is a missed point on all of the apple fanboys defending apple here. This is a professional level computer, not just a pretty luxury item. It's used for work and should have service that's reliable as a professional who can't miss deadlines due to a broken computer. Apples draconian repair policies inhibit that or make it way more expensive or take more time than it should. It's really inexcusable for that level of a product.
As a videographer and editor, I can't recall any company that didn't bend over backwards to help me out when something broke. They want me to use their products and not go buy someone elses when theirs break, even if it breaks due to my own fault (as film equipment can, being as it's used and abused). Apple doesn't have that need or want, they have a core gorup of people who will just blindly buy their stuff and thus, have much less of a worry about their policies driving people away.
Considering a huge chunk of people on this site, and in other places, assumed it was how the screen broke. No, I am not kidding you.
I see countless times that people question the validity of a segment presented either on TV or in an online video. And in this case, IIRC, not many questioned if that one segment was in fact how it broke. A lot of people took it as the moment it broke "beyond repair".
I'm just simply asking a question of trusting presentation of information and accuracy when it took this many weeks before he finally said "yeah, we styled that up a bit". That's all.
Imagine if you actually used an analogous situation. I might have been convinced!
A computer (FYI, a modular-designed electronic device with user or specialist-replaceable parts) is not a bespoke luxury piece of furniture. The damage is different. The extent is different.
If I intentionally drilled a hole right through my iMac screen, I wouldn't expect Apple to repair that, but I also wouldn't expect them to contractually hold repair people to ransom, threatening legal action and an effective end to their career, for offering a very doable repair! What?!
Apple is going out of their way to prevent anyone who isn't an ASP from fixing Apple products, even then, they make it as difficult as they can for said ASP's to even repair the product.
By voiding the warranty if the device is opened (a violation of the Magnuson–Moss Act), to suing people who buy refurbished iPhone display units from China, or having customs seize them at the border by saying they're counterfeit.
It's not as simple as Apple telling someone to pound sand (which is well within their right if someone damages product intentionally). They're willing going taking steps to prevent customers from finding ways to repair their devices that aren't approved by Apple.
If Apple could make it illegal for anyone to repair their devices, they would (that's why Apple is opposed to Right to Repair bills).
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Your examples are single pieces, not an assembly of 30+ components. Nobody is arguing against that if the screen is damaged, that the screen should be entirely replaced for its cost. The components are easily replaceable because they are easily assembled. Not some table with legs "glued" to it for fortification, or a golf club made in a single solid piece for durability, or a dress where you can't just easily remove the parts, fix the problem and remake it. You've got to be trolling..
I can't believe there's a defence force for this. Walk back a bit guys and read what you post.
No.
There is no reason to question the presentation of facts. If someone is somehow confused by a reaction with an intentionally poorly edited explosion, that's on them, and honestly quite amazing.
They accruately presented what broke, what they suspected could also me broken, and most importantly, their experience with Apple's repair service. Those points are the crux of video and there is no reason to question that.
I've been nothing but satisfied with Apple in terms of repairing my products. They've always seemed to go the extra step for me. I've gotten so many out of warranty repairs for free it's hard to justify going back and dealing with situations like I did w/ ASUS waiting weeks on weeks for a repair with no notification.
This seems like such an edge case that's really only relevant to tech pundits and fanboy wars.
This seems like such an edge case that's really only relevant to tech pundits and fanboy wars.
I think it is fair to say most PC makers have now caught up to Apple in terms of design whilst also shipping superior hardware at a cheaper price and apparently the only way Apple has left to innovate is by making their devices less and less repairable with each revision.
Because we're not journalists (and journalists don't use it in every context), and it just comes off as a lame attempt at being industry savvy. It's also confusing for people who don't know what city every company's headquarters is located in.
I wouldn't imagine it being any different.
Companies aren't required to provide self repair channels. Yes, I think that's shitty.
That in itself is not illegal. So far, it's just "concerns" from the FTC, and they sent notices to update warrant language. It's been well past the 30 days, haven't seen any updates on the FTC stance on it.
You got a link to back that up.
The whole reason the FTC released those concerns is because companies were using the stickers to void warranties. It's been something that's been going on for years. If they weren't, the warning wouldn't have needed to be issued in the first place.
The reason the Magnuson–Moss Act was passed was to allow customers to get devices fixed without having their warranty removed. It places the burden of proof on the company, not the consumer.
For example, I take the cover off of my PS4, thus breaking the sticker, and then immediately put it back on (without touching any of the internal hardware), only to have the bluetooth module fail a week later, Sony can't void my warranty because I broke that sticker. They have to show that my actions caused the bluetooth module to fail. If they void the warranty without proving that, that's illegal according to the Magnuson–Moss Act.
That's what companies were doing, thus causing the FTC to take the stance that they did.
So what you're saying is it's only interesting to the potential customers for iMac Pros?