it boils down to:
Followed by a tunnelbear advertisement.
I'm sorry...is he intentionally breaking the front glass panel of the computer?
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YouTuber Linus breaks his iMac Pro, wants it to be repaired but Apple refuses
- Thread starter Redhead On Moped
- Start date
I'm sorry...is he intentionally breaking the front glass panel of the computer?
People need to watch the damn videos before responding already!
They broke it further so they can send it back to Apple for disposal and qualify for "return pricing." The screen was already damaged regardless, the original damage, for the billionth time, wasn't intentional
They would only likely refuse to repair if the car is 100% totaled. That's not the case here.
They'll also let others repair it for them. With parts they have on hand. And licenses that are issued by the state to repair any vehicle, not licenses offered by corporations to work on their specific brands.
Okay both bad and good analogy on my part because, yes, automobile manufacturers are going up against very similar right to repair efforts at the same time. That said, Apple can't just front that it's like a luxury brand car despite how they market their products as such. These are work stations, and if you're a producer that works with Final Cut or an Xcode developer, you need to have your machines be serviceable. This isn't the same as totaling a Bugatti.
Except you have the option of going to a mechanic that can order the parts and repair it for you.
I can see why consumer rights are so fucked in places based on this thread. I don't care if he broke his system on purpose or accident it doesn't even really matter. He is willing to pay for repairs out of pocket and since he is willing to pay for said repairs it should be easy to get Apple or a third-party to perform those repairs. The fact that Apple is going out of their way to make either option as hard as possible, seemingly bordering on impossible, is indefensible and Apple should be rightly called out.
I can almost guarantee that all the other examples people have used in this thread be it cars, ovens or what have you, if you are willing and able to pay for it you will be able to find someone willing and able to fix it. The fact that doesn't seem to hold true in this case is bullshit on Apple's part.
I can almost guarantee that all the other examples people have used in this thread be it cars, ovens or what have you, if you are willing and able to pay for it you will be able to find someone willing and able to fix it. The fact that doesn't seem to hold true in this case is bullshit on Apple's part.
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I guess it's a confusing product in that it's suppose to be a workstation which generally means fully serviceable but also a All-in-1 which people don't generally expect to be serviceable, mind you at most maybe the storage and memory, but it's also most likely the iMac Pro is more locked down than it needs to be. In other words Apple gonna Apple, really do your research that you're okay with an Apple, also call them out as needed.
As someone that found Linus insufferable to watch in that video even in mute, I can't understand the defensiveness on Apple going on here. Apple's policies on repair are complete trash and anti-consumer, they are indefensible no matter how much of a prick Linus may be.
Stop stanning for corporations people, please.
Stop stanning for corporations people, please.
Apple (or anyone for that matter) should reserve the right to refuse to repair a device that has already been damaged by the user in a negligent manner. Third-parties (and users), however, should be able to easily order parts to fill the gap of the user not be able to complete the repairs. Apple's policies on parts and treatment of third-party repairs absolutely abhorrent, but it doesn't excuse the fact that the repair Linus is requesting to be done just may not be profitable and takes on too much liability for an issue that didn't result from a defect or premature failure.
It's a non-user-upgradable machine, requires no maintenance during it's normal lifespan, and is sold as such.
While Apple does have shitty practices in general regarding repairability, this is a case where I can mostly side with them on. It's not a car. Don't open $5k non-user-repairable/upgradable computers on your own without assuming the risk that you may not be granted service to repair the machine by the manufacturer. Parts is another story, but not service.
Also, it REALLY rubbed me the wrong way how Linus included ads in this video in the context of a very controversial matter. There is definitely a benefit to him to drag out and dramatize this whole thing out for more clicks and revenue.
What the hell does negligence matter? Why would it matter if my screen was damaged by an earthquake or if it was damaged by me practicing my golf swing in my living room? I'm the one paying for the repairs.
If I damage the suspension on my car doing donuts in a parking lot, should the dealership refuse to repair it (at my expense)?
All that should matter is "Parts x, y, and z are broken. It will cost $dollars in parts and labor to fix"
Also, if it's non-upgradeable, why are the CPU and RAM on the apple designed logic board socketed instead of soldered?
It's a work station marketed to professionals. It needs to be servicable. Imagine if a photographer/videographer had to add more ram to their system and accidentally broke something. Is it reasonable to expect them to just have to replace the whole thing?
And ads are literally how they pay the bills. Unless the video has a sponsor paying for it to be made, ie. Intel, Corsair, etc. why would they not put their typical advertiser slslo in it?
Because again, the result of the damage caused to the machine by Linus and the lack of parts to repair the machine, Apple declined to repair the machine out of warranty at the time. They likely would have just replaced the machine with a new one at the time had it been a warranty repair. Was that the real reason Apple declined? Maybe not and they should be called out for that given the other details we know, but that does make Apple liable to do repairs out of warranty due to Linus' botched disassembled machine for his YouTube channel with millions of viewers? No. Again, the machine is non-user-upgradable/repairable and Apple does not support end users opening these machines and attempting repairs on their own.
If a user wants to add more RAM or additional upgrades for a machine built in the manner iMac Pros are, they can do so at their own expense and liability without the expectation Apple will make an unprofitable decision to do so, or buy another machine with the specifications they are looking for. Also, whether the CPU and RAM are socketed instead of soldered is irrelevant because they aren't that way to allow users to make upgrades to the machine in the future.
An iFixIt ad in a video about how you fucked up an assembly and now want to publicly litigate the issue with Apple is not savory, sorry.
Watch the video. Just another example of how ridiculous Apple's policies are.
Just set my car on fire and carried to ashes to Toyota HQ with my son like the world's worst God of War sequel and they won't repair it. SMH apple fanboys will still defend this
I have no idea how you think it's "unprofitable" to do out-of-warranty repairs. They charge for parts (it would be insane to sell those at a loss), plus labor. If their labor rate is less than what it costs to employ a technician then their entire repair business is unprofitable and by your logic they shouldn't fix anything.
Aside from the frame (one of the few non-broken parts on linus' mac was the housing), and possible legalities involving VIN labeled parts, I assure you toyota or any 3rd party parts supplier would be happy to sell you every single individual part that is required to build a car, and supply you with a $120/hr technician you can pay to assemble it.
So? He's not asking for charity.
Apple's failing, not the customer's. Just highlighting Apple's incompetence, you are.
They're not asking for warranty repair. This has been repeated a billion times but those who don't want to acknowledge that keep putting their heads in the sand.
Repeat after me.
Not.
A.
Warranty.
Situation.
Linus.
Wanted.
To.
Pay.
For.
It.
Maybe if I write it in this obnoxious way you'll actually process each word and not blindly read past them?
Apple.
Is.
Not.
Being.
Asked.
To.
Repair.
For.
Free.
Does that help?
A video showing how Apple is incapable of repairing their own products, their unwillingness to let licensed professionals do it for them by letting them keep parts on hand to repair broken machines in a timely manner, and threatening legal action against those "partners" for daring to say anything about these horrible practices is inexcusable.
Sorry.
I wonder what magic Apple uses in their hardware that makes them unable to do what all their major competitors can. As someone who worked at a support center for a major PC manufacturer, Dell, back in the day I find a lot of the arguments for why Apple can't do this to be laughable. If you think Apple is taking a loss on a repair bill the customer is footing, I have a bridge I would like to sell you. What is even more amazing is that when I worked for Dell they were willing and able to fix even the non-user-repairable/upgradable machines they sold, usually all-in-ones, because they were making a killing if the customer was footing the bill. I would be shocked if Apple is taking a loss in the situation.
The liability argument also doesn't make sense as it seems others have figured it out and have done so for decades at this point.
All of that is not addressing the key issue for me though. The problem I have is that he couldn't get it fixed by anyone not that he couldn't get it fixed by Apple necessarily. There is no sharing the blame here because this is 100 percent Apple's problem. They are doing their damndest to create a system where third-party repairs don't exist and people seem fine with that. It is very worrying that you and others seem okay with the idea that someone can't fix their computer at all, at their own expense, because they did something they weren't supposed to.
I actually don't think they would? I mean, I don't really get why this is an issue at all
No need to be obnoxious. An out of warranty repair, meaning not covered by warranty. Just because someone is willing to pay an exorbitant amount of money for a repair not covered under warranty doesn't mean that Apple has to offer the service and spend the labor to do so for this type of product, which again, may not be favorable to Apple at the end of the day. Poor customer service on Apple's part throughout this whole ordeal, but they're "right" in my opinion.
This is simply not true. Both the ram and cpu are socketed and can be upgraded. And I imagine if someone is buying a $5,000 machine you want to use it for a while. Which means at some point cleaning out the dust should be done. It's an all ion one machine so it will be susceptible to dust and heat build up.
Also it's not just about Apple not wanting to repair. Apple intentionally goes out of their way to make sure other people can't repair it.
You're right.
Or, you WOULD be right, if Apple was at least allowing trained and licensed professionals to complete said repairs for them in a timely manner without having to jump through hoops and wait weeks for the parts to arrive so they can complete their work. The fact that Apple is actively taking measures to sabotage the ability of their "partners" to repair it in Apple's stead shows Apple is not acting in good faith. So I refute your assertion they are "right".
What is the question mark for? Are you questioning yourself?
Do you have any examples of car parts that you think Toyota wouldn't sell you? Engine, transmission, door, volume knob for the stereo? Dealerships make a lot of money from repairs, because parts and labor are profitable. They have no real reason to not take on the work. There are logistical reasons why they may deny you if you show up with a hollow car frame and say "make this a camry again", such as it being an insane request to pay $50k to repair a $30k car, or them not believing you'd be willing/able to pay the bill once the work was done. If you can prove you'll pay, they would do it.
The analogy is also kind of irrelevant because the second video shows that apple will indeed allow an authorized repair technician to order all of the parts linus broke, and the total cost of them (excluding the warranty sticker issue), is well under the replacement cost of the whole computer.
How people continue to back Apple is baffling. This situation has shone an even brighter light on their already well-documented shitty practices.
It's crazy because the only reason it hasn't been fixed is because of a sticker and not because of any damage caused.
Yeah, that's the wildest part. Like obviously Linus showed the video of him snapping the thing and half and that is what caused the sticker to break. No big deal for him because the dude can simply buy a new one. I can't imagine saving up for this expensive ass machine only for it to fall off a table or some unforeseen circumstance whereupon further review, Apple tells you that your shit out of luck because a sticker got damaged.
Toyota probably wouldn't sell me car parts wholesale piece by piece.
YES! Such a weird thing to complain about, especially while arguing in favor of Apple not providing service because they might not make enough of a profit on it.
You can literally find OEM parts all over the internet for cars. Now..can you find OEM parts for Apple?
This case doesn't have anything to do with the warranty stickers.
I wasn't talking about the warranty stickers and the cost. The warranty stickers don't have anything to do with whether it can be fixed or not out of warranty. That's what my reply is about.
They already have the screen. The reason the warranty sticker is preventing them from fixing the logic board is because the repair center needs to send it back to get a replacement at a decent price. Apple will not accept the board because of the warranty sticker. With the warranty sticker they will charge you more than the machine cost to buy new. Apple does this so spare parts don't end up floating around for people to buy.
Because stanning for literally the richest tech company is the priority in this whole story.
You are wrong. A product brand new, broken or not should be repairable for a fee. You smash your $40,000 car and guess what? You can pay to get it fixed.
That's one example sure. Can I crack open my PS4, Surface Tablet or otherwise and break it while tinkering and then send off for a paid repair? Genuine Q.
Man, this thread really shows you how well corporations have trained people to just accept planned obsolescence and terrible, anti-competitive, anti-customer practices.
Consumption culture is in full swing.
Actually, yes. They do service PS4s out of warranty for a flat fee
https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/Online-Service-Request-FAQ#17
They usually just replace them with a working refurb and sent your unit to the start of the refurb queue. Most companies do this with things much less repairable than an apple workstation. You can also buy most parts in a console, swapping out a fan is easy for example.
Consumption culture is in full swing.
Actually, yes. They do service PS4s out of warranty for a flat fee
https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/Online-Service-Request-FAQ#17
They usually just replace them with a working refurb and sent your unit to the start of the refurb queue. Most companies do this with things much less repairable than an apple workstation. You can also buy most parts in a console, swapping out a fan is easy for example.
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Why yes you can. Here is Microsoft's fee schedule for out of warranty repairs https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4023527/surface-how-to-get-service-for-surface. See above for Sony's policies.
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Which is fine. But they're not allowed to keep parts off the market, or prohibitively price them for monopolistic purposes should someone want to eat the time / cost to do the tedious repair.
Bussiness have time and again gotten slapped down for this crap.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aro_Manufacturing_Co._v._Convertible_Top_Replacement_Co.
Yes. I had a toddler pull my GameCube off of a table and smashing on the floor and all the controllers ports busted and Nintendo's fixed it for $40
While it may be allowed depending on the customer service representative you speak to, if you do that you will void the right to service so they can refuse to repair the device even if you'll pay for it.
This is not accurate. You are not entitled to repair for a Microsoft device which has experienced similar tampering.
"15. EXCLUSIONS FROM SERVICE
Microsoft reserves the right to refuse Service or consider as out-of-warranty, Microsoft Devices that are: (1) damaged by use with products not sold or licensed by Microsoft (including, for example, games or software and accessories not manufactured or licensed by Microsoft, and "pirated" games or software, etc.); (2) used for commercial purposes (including, for example, rental, pay-per-play, etc.); (3) opened, modified, or tampered with (including, for example, any attempt to defeat any technical limitation, security, or anti-piracy mechanism, etc.), or its serial number is altered or removed; (4) damaged by any external cause (including, for example, by being dropped, used with inadequate ventilation, etc., or failure to follow product manual instructions for the Microsoft Device); (5) sent to Microsoft without requesting an authorized Service order by phone or online; or (6) serviced by any third party other than Microsoft or its authorized service providers. In such event, we may return the Microsoft Device to you without service."
This is also not accurate. If you tamper the console you void the right to official service options:
"
Factory Service Repair - Terms & Conditions
Nintendo's Factory Service Repair, which is defined as the repair (or replacement, at Nintendo's discretion) of Nintendo systems, is available for systems within their original manufacturer's warranty or repair warranty period. Factory Service Repair may also be available for a fee for systems where the manufacturer's warranty or repair warranty has expired, or where the issue with the system is not covered under warranty. Please visit the Nintendo Customer Support page to determine what options may be available for your system.
If you send in your system for service under the original manufacturer's warranty or the repair warranty and it is determined that the issue was caused by something other than a manufacturer's defect, payment will be required before Nintendo will repair your system. Two attempts will be made to contact you to arrange for payment. If we are unable to contact you, your system will be returned to you unrepaired.
Nintendo will not repair any product found to be counterfeit or altered (e.g. software modification, hardware modification, tampered with, etc.). Any system identified as such will be returned as-is. In addition, Nintendo reserves the right to refuse requests for repairs that, in Nintendo's sole discretion, are fraudulent.
Click here to view the manufacturer's warranty text."
EDIT: That document doesn't well-cover non-guarantee options, so it's better to note this one which specifies that beyond economic repair products can be refused service: https://pro.sony/en_GB/support-content/repairs Unfortunately there are no publicly available repair terms which I can find online excluding the guarantee page that state this explicitly, but damage while tampering does in general label products as BER and invalid for service.
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Very interesting. Thank you all for taking the time to post examples and answer the question. Having never needed it I'd been ignorant to this side of things so good to have that cleared and know better moving forward.
As someone that has been involved in a '84 300zx restoration project, this is very true. Nissan dealership will gladly sell you any part down to the tiniest bolt in an engine block. So long as you have the money and part number. The apple defense force here is ridiculous. It's one thing to not have anyone on hand to repair it (even though that's completely a joke), but to block a third party to repair it by not selling them the part is about as anti-consumer as it gets.
My lack of sympathy for Linus stems from his reckless behavior and entitled tone. I take Apple's side on this issue from a perspective of everyday common sense. He broke his own shit and is crying because Apple won't fix it for him. It is pathetic.
Regarding your specific points, I want to make clear I don't appreciate how unethical Apple is in their treatment of 3rd party repairs - BUT they can nonetheless stop the manufacture of a replacement part if that part is patented.
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