Zahn Trilogy Is The Best Star Wars Trilogy Post-1983.

[UltraMagnus]

So much talk about the prequels and now the current sequel trilogy ... but I can't help but really feel that Timothy Zahn in actuality created the best follow up to the actual Star Wars original trilogy with these three books, first published in 1991. Anyone else agree?

And I'm not even a big EU lover or anything like that. They just captured the spirit of Star Wars perfectly, and introduced good new characters without relying on the "but he's a Skywalker" crutch. Mara Jade, Thrawn, Pellalon, the warped Jedi master C'boath, Talon Kardde are all interesting new characters. Coruscant is also first mentioned and described by Timothy Zahn in this trilogy, not the prequels.

They by far to me feel the most like the quality of the OT and Empire in particular, the characters all feel like natural extensions of themselves and Timothy Zahn does a great job of creating the political intrigue and fleshing out the world of the Republic and Fallen Empire in ways the prequels/sequels really have generally failed to do (at least thus far for the sequels). The conflict here between a newborn Republic struggling to keep things together and Empire that's rebuilding in a cunning ways creates a dynamic IMO far better than the prequels (which were bogged down by trade disputes and stuff the audience doesn't care about) and the sequels which basically just reset everything to the OT.

I can't help but feel like Timothy Zahn does what Lucas/Abrams/Johnson etc. all couldn't quite deliver.

 

[JeTmAn]

It's good

 

[AztecComplex]

Oh you mean the LEGEND that never happened, right? XD

 

[capitalCORN]

Agreed. Grand Admiral Thrawn best grand admiral.

 

[Contramann]

Oh you mean the LEGEND that never happened, right? XD

Click to shrink...

Yeah this. OP I have no idea what you're talking about. There was another trilogy?

I think a large part of the Zahn books being interesting is Thrawn himself, who is evil because he's aligned with the Empire but he's really not evil. He's just exceedingly good at his job of being Grand Admiral.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Yeah this. OP I have no idea what you're talking about. There was another trilogy?

I think a large part of the Zahn books being interesting is Thrawn himself, who is evil because he's aligned with the Empire but he's really not evil. He's just exceedingly good at his job of being Grand Admiral.

Click to shrink...

Thrawn is a deliciously well written Star Wars villain, again far more interesting than even Kylo Ren. But the Thrawn trilogy also has many other solid/fascinating characters that fit right in.

I mean the Mara Jade/Luke Skywalker "romance" plot could've been lame, instead it's way better than any thing we've gotten in a Star Wars movie since Han/Leia. It's interesting, it's unique, it fits.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

Coruscant, Grand Admiral Thrawn, and the Noghri all became part of the official canon. Can't think of any other EU story that's been as influential. Did Pellaeon or Talon Karrde (maybe some spelling mistakes there, I read them a decade ago) ever show up in the canon?

 

[Digital]

Are these still canon?

 

[UltraMagnus]

Coruscant, Grand Admiral Thrawn, and the Noghri all became part of the official canon. Can't think of any other EU story that's been as influential. Did Pellaeon ever show up in the canon?

Click to shrink...

Exactly a lot of the stuff Zahn came up with is so good that they can't axe it even if their policy is to axe such material. It just speaks to how good of a take on Star Wars Zahn did.

If Zahn's trilogy had been filmed circa 1998 with the original cast and done in a relatively faithful way, I have no doubt those three movies would put what we got in the prequels and what we're getting now (which I don't think is bad btw) to shame.

 

[acheron_xl]

I enjoyed them when I read them 25 years ago. But I barely remember them.

 

[Akira86]

I just assume all this stuff happened in between the years they all went from young to old.

 

[sphagnum]

Jesus Christ. No.

Ysalamiri and Luuke are awful ideas.

Edit: To be fair you're specifying that it's the best trilogy, not just the best product in general, so you're probably right.

 

[Veelk]

I guess if I had to pick, I would say that the Thrawn Trilogy is better, but it's goals are different. It's a sequel in the traditional sense, made for fans of the original who simply wanted Luke's, Leia's, and Han's adventures to continue. For me, Thrawn atleast the best villain of this entire franchise that I've seen.

But the Sequel Trilogy is being written as not merely a continuation, but a Star Wars for the new generation. It is self examining of SW as a culture both metatexually and within the confines of its own universe. It's not really even continuing Luke's adventures, it's introducing the new Luke, Han, Leia. You can debate it's success of that as you like, or just judge it on how much it pleases you as a viewer solely, but I feel it's clear that has very specifically different goals than the Thrawn Trilogy set out to be, and it makes a complete 1 to 1 comparison unfeasible.

 

[sphagnum]

Are these still canon?

Click to shrink...

No, nothing but the original 6 films, TCW, and the Son of Dathomir comic escaped the purge.

 

[Jintor]

no lies detected

but new trilogy hasn't completed yet so i guess i can't call it just yet...

 

[Digital]

No, nothing but the original 6 films, TCW, and the Son of Dathomir comic escaped the purge.

Click to shrink...

But why?

 

[Salty Rice]

Totally agree. Far better than the prequels and so far the Kathleen Kennedy Trilogy.

They feel indeed like a natural progression and not just like a reset.

 

[sphagnum]

But why?

Click to shrink...

They wanted to give the writers and directors of the new movies total freedom to do what they wanted without being forced to adhere to decades of continuity, which was constantly being overwritten anyway.

The things that survived were things George worked on, and that comic was produced from unfinished TCW scripts.

 

[Contramann]

Thrawn is a deliciously well written Star Wars villain, again far more interesting than even Kylo Ren. But the Thrawn trilogy also has many other solid/fascinating characters that fit right in.

I mean the Mara Jade/Luke Skywalker "romance" plot could've been lame, instead it's way better than any thing we've gotten in a Star Wars movie since Han/Leia. It's interesting, it's unique, it fits.

Click to shrink...

I very much agree (and I like Kylo Ren). And so much of the story relies on Thrawn and love of creativity and weaves into everything perfectly. I mean just as an example his cloaked asteroid idea is brilliant both from the perspective of it being an amazing tactics and from the narrative perspective of forcing the rebuilt and much stronger New Republic to be brought down to a level where it can actually be threatened. It is Thrawn's ability to be so good at his job, to come up with these ways that in essence force the Republic and the cast to react that makes the book compelling.

And we do get the interesting perspectives as well from C'boath and Mara Jade but it's really Thrawn and his abilities that far eclipse any of the other Empire soldiers we've seen short of Tarkin that gets the ball rolling so well.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

Exactly a lot of the stuff Zahn came up with is so good that they can't axe it even if their policy is to axe such material. It just speaks to how good of a take on Star Wars Zahn did.

Click to shrink...

Indeed, though I thought some of his best stuff came in the later Hand of Thrawn duology. Zahn brought some interesting concepts on the nature of the force to the table. Instead, we got the boring, garbage "balance to the force" shit that Lucas foisted on us with the prequel trilogy/animated shows that has been continued even with the sequel trilogy.

 

[Digital]

They wanted to give the writers and directors of the new movies total freedom to do what they wanted without being forced to adhere to decades of continuity, which was constantly being overwritten anyway.

The things that survived were things George worked on, and that comic was produced from unfinished TCW scripts.

Click to shrink...

Isn't that why the new series is set 30+ years after Episode 6? Would these novels really have interfered with the newer movies? I wouldn't know, I'm just curious because the premise for these books sounds interesting.

 

[sphagnum]

Isn't that why the new series is set 30+ years after Episode 6? Would these novels really have interfered with the newer movies? I wouldn't know, I'm just curious because the premise for these books sounds interesting.

Click to shrink...

The old EU went up to 140 years after ANH. They would have to fit the new trilogy into the middle of other story arcs.

 

[Ottaro]

Are these still canon?

Click to shrink...

Since all of this is fiction, the canon is whatever you want it to be.

It's not a lie if you believe it.

 

[sphagnum]

For reference, if they wanted to keep the old canon but place it 30 years after ROTJ, it would be in the gap between the Yuuzhan Vong War (25 - 29 ABY) and the Swarm War (36 ABY) since TFA takes place in 34 ABY. Not a whole lot they could do since it's a period of relative peace and rebuilding after the Vong War, and Jacen is off learning other methods of the Force, having not become Darth Caedus yet.

 

[TerminusFox]

Isn't that why the new series is set 30+ years after Episode 6? Would these novels really have interfered with the newer movies? I wouldn't know, I'm just curious because the premise for these books sounds interesting.

Click to shrink...

The EU before Disney bought Star Wars was absolutely massive.

All of Star Trek doesn't even come close.

 

[DrForester]

I read this in high school and was bored out of my mind. Made it partway through book 2.

I finally got around to trying again earlier this year, and though it was OK. Thrawn is a great character, but the story just seems kind of bland, wasn't bad, but I didn't find it all that memorable. Thrawn alone can't carry the whole story. Mara and Karrde were OK.

 

[Zulith]

My dream is Lucasfilm will reintroduce the story to the Canon at some point, making minor changes to make it fit with no conflicts.

Animated film trilogy perhaps?

 

[Deleted member 2229]

My dream is Lucasfilm will reintroduce the story to the Canon at some point, making minor changes to make it fit with no conflicts.

Animated film trilogy perhaps?

Click to shrink...

Itsdeadjim

 

[TheXbox]

I tried to get into it, but nah, man. Heir to the Empire is not a good book. Zahn has the same problem I've felt so many outside authors have had when working in Star Wars, which is making the legacy characters feel authentic. Han, Leia, et al feel like parodies of themselves in Zahn's world (ditto for the likes of NJO, Bloodline, and many other EU works). I can't say I felt that way in TFA or TLJ. I don't if it's just the actors, or the writers (Kasdan esp.) but when I see those characters again I believe they're the same people I met in the original trilogy.

Also, Luuke. Come on.

 

[Deleted member 15227]

Agreed OP.

 

[Dekuman]

Thrawn was a good villain though and it is nice to see them bring him back into official EU canon.

As noted, there were some really absurd things in that trilogy that would make people's eye roll today.

That said, Those were my early teen years, loved them for what they represented (Star Wars continuing) after being told by my parents that ROTJ was the last Star Wars ever, so it was an exciting time to see the franchise revived. Nothing with the plot points outside of Thrawn and Han and Leia's twin children stuck out. We've got actual movies to look forward to now.

I still have my paperbacks I bought with my allowance money. The covers are lovingly wrapped with saran wrap. The pages yellowing.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Thrawn was a fantastic creation and I'm glad he's back in the canon. I really liked Talon Karde and Palleon as well. Mara Jade was pretty cool at the time though later EU authors ruined her. I also really liked Lando's mining plant or whatever that had to be mobile to perpetually stay on the dark side of the planet to avoid the intense heat from the sun.

Otherwise there really isn't anything worth keeping. I loved it at the time of release but it's pretty much 100% fan wish fulfillment all of the time. It's the safest version of post RotJ Star Wars that I could imagine.

Heir is by far the best of the trilogy and the most memorable. The next two books were a significant step down. But the whole thing pure gold measured next to the excrement of KJA's Jedi Academy Trilogy.

 

[EYEL1NER]

With Thrawn being in Rebels, it gives me hope that more things related to the Chiss will be
featured in Star Wars media. The Chiss Clawcraft needs to become a canon ship!

Such a badass design.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Thrawn was a fantastic creation and I'm glad he's back in the canon. I really liked Talon Karde and Palleon as well. Mara Jade was pretty cool at the time though later EU authors ruined her. I also really liked Lando's mining plant or whatever that had to be mobile to perpetually stay on the dark side of the planet to avoid the intense heat from the sun.

Otherwise there really isn't anything worth keeping. I loved it at the time of release but it's pretty much 100% fan wish fulfillment all of the time. It's the safest version of post RotJ Star Wars that I could imagine.

Heir is by far the best of the trilogy and the most memorable. The next two books were a significant step down. But the whole thing pure gold measured next to the excrement of KJA's Jedi Academy Trilogy.

Click to shrink...

I dunno I think it takes more risks than the sequel trilogy we are getting. It gives some real thought to the galaxy and how politically things would work after ROTJ and creates a new dynamic between the "good guys" and "bad guys" which is wildly entertaining.

Hate to say it, but Abrams and Johnson give virtually no thought to this, it's just "well everything went back to old movies". There's real development to the characters too, Han is not a smuggler again for example, he has to work in establishing the New Republic but he's still very much Han.

Also I liked Mara Jade. A lot. I thought that was a real interesting take on giving Luke someone to fight against, but then also ... you know, lol. It just feels like Zahn put a lot more thought into this stuff.

 

[Deleted member 1852]

Grand Admiral Thrawn was so good they back-ported him from the old EU to whatever it is Disney has these days.

 

[Deleted member 2229]

I dunno I think it takes more risks than the sequel trilogy we are getting. It gives some real thought to the galaxy and how politically things would work after ROTJ and creates a new dynamic between the "good guys" and "bad guys" which is wildly entertaining.

Hate to say it, but Abrams and Johnson give virtually no thought to this, it's just "well everything went back to old movies". There's real development to the characters too, Han is not a smuggler again for example, he has to work in establishing the New Republic but he's still very much Han.

Also I liked Mara Jade. A lot. I thought that was a real interesting take on giving Luke someone to fight against, but then also ... you know, lol. It just feels like Zahn put a lot more thought into this stuff.

Click to shrink...

I would say its more Abrams fault than Johnson. Abrams is the one that nuked the whole republic in his film and created the first order. Johnson just kind of had to go with it.

 

[TheBeardedOne]

I think I bought one of these books at a school book fair when I was a kid, but never read it and ended up losing it. Dark Force Rising looks and sounds very familiar.

 

[Tizoc]

So much talk about the prequels and now the current sequel trilogy ... but I can't help but really feel that Timothy Zahn in actuality created the best follow up to the actual Star Wars original trilogy with these three books, first published in 1991. Anyone else agree?

And I'm not even a big EU lover or anything like that. They just captured the spirit of Star Wars perfectly, and introduced good new characters without relying on the "but he's a Skywalker" crutch. Mara Jade, Thrawn, Pellalon, the warped Jedi master C'boath, Talon Kardde are all interesting new characters. Coruscant is also first mentioned and described by Timothy Zahn in this trilogy, not the prequels.

They by far to me feel the most like the quality of the OT and Empire in particular, the characters all feel like natural extensions of themselves and Timothy Zahn does a great job of creating the political intrigue and fleshing out the world of the Republic and Fallen Empire in ways the prequels/sequels really have generally failed to do (at least thus far for the sequels). The conflict here between a newborn Republic struggling to keep things together and Empire that's rebuilding in a cunning ways creates a dynamic IMO far better than the prequels (which were bogged down by trade disputes and stuff the audience doesn't care about) and the sequels which basically just reset everything to the OT.

I can't help but feel like Timothy Zahn does what Lucas/Abrams/Johnson etc. all couldn't quite deliver.

Click to shrink...

Mind linking to where one could buy the books in primt?
Are there good audio books or dramas for them?

 

[UltraMagnus]

Mind linking to where one could buy the books in primt?
Are there good audio books or dramas for them?

Click to shrink...

Amazon has them, just look up Heir to the Empire. They're cheap too. Should be easy enough to find in any larger book store too. I'm not sure if they made audio dramas out of them. I do know Dark Horse did a comic book series based on the book years ago.

 

[Rendering...]

I wasn't aware the sequel trilogy was already finished.

 

[UltraMagnus]

I wasn't aware the sequel trilogy was already finished.

Click to shrink...

That's a fair comment, though honestly they're running out of runway. I like the sequel trilogy too by the way generally speaking ... but I just think Zahn's trilogy is more well thought out for sure and just all in all better.

 

[Deleted member 1120]

Let the past die

 

[UltraMagnus]

Let the past die

Click to shrink...

The funny thing is Zahn is the only one that actually takes the concept and does anything with it. Abrams is very obviously tied to the OT, and Johnson is pretty much as well, but obsessed with the "subversion" that the "I am your father" moment provided in Empire, so now every major plot point must do the same thing in his take on Star Wars, but the setups are pretty much the same.

Zahn's Heir trilogy actually accepts ROTJ happened and that the galaxy is now in a different place than it was before. It's the only one that's not slavishly married to ANH/ESB. I feel like Zahn legitimately asks "OK, well that happened, so what could happen next?", whereas the Disney trilogy's question feels a lot like "well what if we did what the OT did, but did it my way?".

 

[Einchy]

Thought it was great but the fantasy elements really take a backseat, so much so that there's an off button mechanic for the Force. Also, Clones are silly and should not involve main characters.

 

[Einchy]

With Thrawn being in Rebels, it gives me hope that more things related to the Chiss will be
featured in Star Wars media. The Chiss Clawcraft needs to become a canon ship!

Such a badass design.

Click to shrink...

That's...actually a great design. How's that possible? Usually EU stuff looks awful.

 

[KonradLaw]

Post 1983? It's the best piece of fiction SW universe has produced. Even better than the original trilogy of movies.

 

[Xaszatm]

Zahn was an interesting writer because he tried to put hard fantasy into Star Wars as often as he could. You would visit old planets again but he would point out just because you visited a part of it doesn't mean you suddenly knew the entire planet, tried to put things like logistics and physics into a world with a magical Force (probably to the film's detriment, while the iguana's where an interesting way of having a non-Force leader, it is still kind of an off switch). And its this love of detail that makes the books so thrilling to read. Hell, pretty much anything written by Timothy Zahn was the only real things worth keeping from the old EU.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Zahn was an interesting writer because he tried to put hard fantasy into Star Wars as often as he could. You would visit old planets again but he would point out just because you visited a part of it doesn't mean you suddenly knew the entire planet, tried to put things like logistics and physics into a world with a magical Force (probably to the film's detriment, while the iguana's where an interesting way of having a non-Force leader, it is still kind of an off switch). And its this love of detail that makes the books so thrilling to read. Hell, pretty much anything written by Timothy Zahn was the only real things worth keeping from the old EU.

Click to shrink...

I remember there were rumors that Zahn would be brought on as a writer for the prequel trilogy to work with Lucas during the 90s.

Would've been interesting to see how that would've gone.

 

[Reluctantly Gumblesmug]

Zahn's the man, Thrawn's the man. I never noticed when i was young how much the Thrawn/Pellaeon dynamic was influenced by the Holmes/Watson dynamic. I should dig them up and reread them, it's been a while. they did a lot to flesh out the universe.

for anyone saying that they're the only good parts of the old EU, i'd like to throw in the Stackpole X wing books and definitely KOTOR, at the very least. IMO there's a decent amount of good stuff out there, with admittedly plenty of junk too.

 

[UltraMagnus]

Zahn's the man, Thrawn's the man. I never noticed when i was young how much the Thrawn/Pellaeon dynamic was influenced by the Holmes/Watson dynamic. I should dig them up and reread them, it's been a while. they did a lot to flesh out the universe.

for anyone saying that they're the only good parts of the old EU, i'd like to throw in the Stackpole X wing books and definitely KOTOR, at the very least. IMO there's a decent amount of good stuff out there, with admittedly plenty of junk too.

Click to shrink...

What's the recommended platform for playing KOTOR? It's on Android/iPhone right? Is it any good playing it that way?