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Zahn Trilogy Is The Best Star Wars Trilogy Post-1983.
- Thread starter UltraMagnus
- Start date
I loved that trilogy. One of the things that got me into reading novels as a kid.
Thrawn was such a well-written villain. Zahn did a great job of expanding some aspects of the lore while rightfully keeping at arm's length about others, like what can be done with the Force.
Thrawn was such a well-written villain. Zahn did a great job of expanding some aspects of the lore while rightfully keeping at arm's length about others, like what can be done with the Force.
The books ended shortly after Fate of the Jedi, in which the Jedi and the One Sith had to team up to take down the Force entity Abeloth. Then there's a near-century timeskip to the Legacy comics where Luke's descendant Cade defeats Darth Krayt (Legacy volume 1) and Ania Solo defeats Darth Wredd (Legacy volume 2).
How dare you!
God I loved those books as a kid. Pretty sure they've aged terribly.
I don't think any of the three main characters got endings in the old EU. It would be cool if they let Zahn or someone write one more trilogy to end the EU.
The Zahn trilogy is crap. The characters are all off. There is zero humor, it's dry and soul-less. C3PO and R2 are even dry and humorless.
It's exactly what you'd expect from a bad sci fi writer who doesn't understand what made Star Wars so special.
Thrawn is interesting, but that's about it. I'll take the new movies anyday.
It's exactly what you'd expect from a bad sci fi writer who doesn't understand what made Star Wars so special.
Thrawn is interesting, but that's about it. I'll take the new movies anyday.
They didn't, but that's because the Disney buyout terminated the EU prematurely.
I'm still hoping that down the line Disney and Lucasfilm will decide to start publishing new Legends stuff in the Insider magazine at least.
The Thrawn trilogy is interesting, but I lost interest in all the ensuing followup trilogies with Han & Leia and Luke & Mara Jade getting married and having kids.
These books have some extreme high points, some stuff that just wouldnt make sense now, and some stuff that was outright terrible.
Luuke? Come on. C'Baoth was a decent idea but executed terribly. The Yslimari are similar to C'Baoth. Cool concept, executed in a way that just leaves you confused.
Luke/Han/Leia are great in it, though.
I still kinda feel that the rough idea of it all could be re-used in the new Canon. Just make it so Palpatine/Thrawn corrupts Ezra Bridger in the last season of Rebels and Ezra takes the spot of C'Baoth and Luuke.
Then have the Thrawn stories take place at a somewhat accelerated pace in a sooner time period after ROTJ. There is still quite a bit of wiggle room for some adventures in the new canon post-ROTJ and before the established books with major characters. Bloodlines, for example, is like 15 post-ROTJ, right? Have Thrawn take place 5 or 10 years after ROTJ and we are golden.
Luuke? Come on. C'Baoth was a decent idea but executed terribly. The Yslimari are similar to C'Baoth. Cool concept, executed in a way that just leaves you confused.
Luke/Han/Leia are great in it, though.
I still kinda feel that the rough idea of it all could be re-used in the new Canon. Just make it so Palpatine/Thrawn corrupts Ezra Bridger in the last season of Rebels and Ezra takes the spot of C'Baoth and Luuke.
Then have the Thrawn stories take place at a somewhat accelerated pace in a sooner time period after ROTJ. There is still quite a bit of wiggle room for some adventures in the new canon post-ROTJ and before the established books with major characters. Bloodlines, for example, is like 15 post-ROTJ, right? Have Thrawn take place 5 or 10 years after ROTJ and we are golden.
It was an awful crutch during the Bantam Spectra years. So many series amounted to "wow, there is still a small Imperial Research Sector that has just brought a new super weapon to bear." So many Star Wars writers were so devoted to the OT's formula that it included the weaknesses as well. "George brought in Death Star 2 so I guess that means we always must bring out a new Imperial Super Weapon to make it feel like Star Wars!"
Unless something changed they never showed the fate of the characters because they weren't authorized to. Lucas was not going to allow an author to detail how Han, Luke, or Leia died.
I have a bunch of SW Legends books including #1 of this one, but aint read them yet
Who the fuck is the wizard man shooting lasers from his hands in the first image?
Jorus C'Bhoath, an ancient Jedi who survived the purge and guards the republics old cloning cylinders.
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Look, I fell under the spell of those when they came out, too. It was a cool crazy concept at the time that there even WERE new novels. In 1991, there was NO Star Wars. No toys or any other merchandise, hadn't been a movie in years, nothing. It was a dead IP. Then suddenly Dark Empire and Heir to the Empire came out, and it was cool and unique to think "oh wow, these tell the story of what happened AFTERWARDS, wow"! It was like Wicked being a sequel to the Wizard of Oz or something. And hell, it was a kitschy thing to even think about Star Wars at all by the late 80's/early 90's, the age of TMNT, Hypercolor and Guns & Roses.
So I get why these books are fondly remembered, I fondly remember them too. But having said all that, no. Those are in no way better stories than the last three films. And yes, I get that some people hate TLJ, opinions are a dime a dozen etc etc. But that's mine, and I'm pretty well versed in it all.
AND Zahn's new canon Thrawn book is better too. It's the first part of what will definitely be a trilogy, Zahn's writing and understanding of the character is sharper than ever, and it doesn't have all the goofy baggage that the Heir trilogy has. The post-Endor era has now been done to death in both the old EU and the new continuity. So the first Thrawn book takes place from just post-RotS to just pre-ANH, tells how he joins the Empire, meets Palpatine and Vader for the first time and so on. The second book is out next summer, and probably takes place during the OT, and I'd bet some credits that the third will take place in the outer rim and speak to Thrawn's involvement with the ashes of the Empire becoming the start of the First Order. In the first book, Zahn happily takes pieces of his old work that function (the first chapter is actually straight from a 1995 supplemental short story he wrote) and combines those pieces with great new work that results in a much more concise, cohesive story than the old material. (Which by the way, is pretty much a microcosm of the old vs new EU anyway).
So I get why these books are fondly remembered, I fondly remember them too. But having said all that, no. Those are in no way better stories than the last three films. And yes, I get that some people hate TLJ, opinions are a dime a dozen etc etc. But that's mine, and I'm pretty well versed in it all.
AND Zahn's new canon Thrawn book is better too. It's the first part of what will definitely be a trilogy, Zahn's writing and understanding of the character is sharper than ever, and it doesn't have all the goofy baggage that the Heir trilogy has. The post-Endor era has now been done to death in both the old EU and the new continuity. So the first Thrawn book takes place from just post-RotS to just pre-ANH, tells how he joins the Empire, meets Palpatine and Vader for the first time and so on. The second book is out next summer, and probably takes place during the OT, and I'd bet some credits that the third will take place in the outer rim and speak to Thrawn's involvement with the ashes of the Empire becoming the start of the First Order. In the first book, Zahn happily takes pieces of his old work that function (the first chapter is actually straight from a 1995 supplemental short story he wrote) and combines those pieces with great new work that results in a much more concise, cohesive story than the old material. (Which by the way, is pretty much a microcosm of the old vs new EU anyway).
And then we essentially got that with the First Order and their super secret super system killing weapon.
You don't want to know. There is a lot of good in these books but that subplot is not one of them.
Yep.
So I think we are all in agreement that while Luuke was a bad idea Luuuke is a pretty excellent idea right?
Edit: also it should be remembered that Luuuke and Streeen built a time machine to go get a clone army from the clone wars era.
Edit: also it should be remembered that Luuuke and Streeen built a time machine to go get a clone army from the clone wars era.
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Which books in the new canon deal with the post ROTJ era? I read Lost Stars which covered it a little bit, and it's always the part of the EU I was most interested in.
That makes no sense to me. The First Order is just an evolution of the Imperial Remnant that Zahn started and that remained a crutch for pretty much the EU from that point forward. Didn't they even eventually cede a section of the galaxy to the remnant, similar to what happens with TFO?
If your complaint with TFA was lack of originality then the Zahn books aren't what you are looking for. Thrawn is great but at the end of the day its still all about fighting Imperial Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, etc.
Nah, the C'Boath stuff is just....not good. Thrawn and Mara Jade are good enough that they flat out should have been cannon though. Domnhall Gleeson is the perfect idea of what the son of Mara Jade and Luke Skywalker would look like too--it's really hard to think about as someone who was big into the legends EU.
Lost Stars (this book covers decades so the end fits post RotJ)
Aftermath Trilogy
Bloodlines
Canto Bight
Phasma
Legends of Luke Skywalker
TFA
TLJ
Well, there are a lot that do, but the biggest ones that I'd recommend you head towards first are the Aftermath Trilogy and Bloodline (which is by the same author of Lost Stars). You'll enjoy those a lot. And I'd say do all three Aftermaths before Bloodline.
I read the first Aftermath book and thought it wasn't very good, do the sequels get better?
Actually the Imperial Remnant and Republic sign a treaty in the Thrawn Duology and their conflicts stopped. I thought it was a nice solution than just wiping them out.
I liked the trilogy for what it's worth while also realizing the writing wasn't the greatest and the story was a little too campy.
Honestly read Bloodline.
I definitely thought the first was the weakest of the three, yeah. The core characters get better fleshed out and more dynamic, and the latter two books seem less rushed in general. I never really liked the present tense writing format, but I guess you kind of get used to it.
Wow that sounds pretty cool for the new Thrawn book, I've had it sitting in my Audible list for months, I guess its time to start listening. Thanks.
I love Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. I wish that Mara, Karrde, and Garm Bel Iblis are incorporated into the new EU just like the new Thrawn. If i were to change some things, i would definitely remove Joruus C'baoth and the Katana fleet from the trilogy. Seriously, Thrawn and Palpatine's hidden tech stash is more than enough threat for the New Republic.
I adore the trilogy and the Hand of Thrawn duology followup. Reading them has become a Christmas tradition for me starting a few years ago when I was having a pretty bad Christmas and just needed something comfortable. I just finished up Dark Force Rising last night.
I disagree that Thrawn's evilness is merely because of his ties to the Empire. I thought he was pretty racist, especially with his attitudes toward the Noghri and if it's not racism he at least sees everything and everyone in the universe as merely a tool for him to use to reach his ends. If there's a non-evil Empire character in the novels it's probably Pellaeon.
Last year I bought the rest of the Zahn "legends" Star Wars books to read them for the first time and boy there are some huge issues with the two I read (Outbound Flight and Survivor's Quest). As great as Zahn's first 5 books were, and I loved how he retconned Luke being absurdly overpowered in the universe in Specter of the Past, it's clear to me that Zahn's involvement in the prequels or the more recent movies wouldn't have been a panacea.
I disagree that Thrawn's evilness is merely because of his ties to the Empire. I thought he was pretty racist, especially with his attitudes toward the Noghri and if it's not racism he at least sees everything and everyone in the universe as merely a tool for him to use to reach his ends. If there's a non-evil Empire character in the novels it's probably Pellaeon.
Last year I bought the rest of the Zahn "legends" Star Wars books to read them for the first time and boy there are some huge issues with the two I read (Outbound Flight and Survivor's Quest). As great as Zahn's first 5 books were, and I loved how he retconned Luke being absurdly overpowered in the universe in Specter of the Past, it's clear to me that Zahn's involvement in the prequels or the more recent movies wouldn't have been a panacea.
Even as a young teen I thought the romantic scenes in the X-Wing series ,especially the Corran-Mirax relationship, were really awkwardly written. The space combat stuff was top notch though, especially in The Bacta War
I first read them when I was a kid, then again a couple of years back. They were...not great. In hindsight, it feels like they were when "Star Wars" became a checklist of fan pandering.
But at least they were better than the ones that followed, with each writer trying to outdo the last with increasingly silly super weapons and Luke Skywalker love interests.
But at least they were better than the ones that followed, with each writer trying to outdo the last with increasingly silly super weapons and Luke Skywalker love interests.
Not sure if the content of the books is a spoiler here, but...
C'Baoth per se isn't needed, but I think it's interesting to see how Thrawn/Pellaeon deal with it. Katana is just a way to see Karrde do a step towards New Republic and how power struggle in New Republic manage to waste it (and how the main characters go cheating on the new republic on that matter).
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Both could be out, but they serve an interesting purpose to build other characters...
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Both could be out, but they serve an interesting purpose to build other characters...
I think Pellaeon has wonderful political skills, even if he knows he'll never have Thrawn skills in strategy and tactics. Seeing him basically saving the remnants for years by clever choices is a great part of EU. I really like him.
Late books spoiler (second civil war)
Seing him dying from the hand of a manipulated Tahiri, which you can't dislike, is heartbreaking, but that make a mess from the remnant and offer a lot of opportunites for later books.
Pellaeon is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. He is an imperial who is actually a believable human being instead of a monster or cannon fodder like all the other ones.
Probably one of the few post-Return of the Jedi arcs from Legends that was any good. Most of those stories were such trash because they couldn't really do anything bad to Luke, Leia, or Han. I don't think time has been as kind to the Thrawn trilogy as some might think but Thrawn himself and Mara were really well done.
I'd be fine with bringing Mara back into the canon somehow but cutting her romance with Luke. The things they did with her character for him, particularly in The Legacy of the Force novels.. did not sit well with me. Or maybe I just hate Karen Traviss.
I'd be fine with bringing Mara back into the canon somehow but cutting her romance with Luke. The things they did with her character for him, particularly in The Legacy of the Force novels.. did not sit well with me. Or maybe I just hate Karen Traviss.
Great series, more enjoyable than the current movie imo. I recommend first timers to listen to the audio books that have the music, sound effects and good enough voice acting from the narrator to make the film very enjoyable. His Lando voice is great.
I've read them recently (well, it was in 2016 I think). I still quite enjoyed them.
They're good but its always better with Corellians. Give me Wedge or Corran Horn and I'm in heaven.
Also ysalamiri are lame.
Hot Cocoa is cool though.
Pellaeon was Corellian. This is why he was rad. Even to the end ;_;
Also ysalamiri are lame.
Hot Cocoa is cool though.
Pellaeon was Corellian. This is why he was rad. Even to the end ;_;
I just recall the dislogue as being very hokey, but "I, Jedi" was a hell of a follow-up. Corran Horn is the ultimate Gary Stu SW character.
The Thrawn trilogy good, but has some serious flaws. Probably the biggest is how mundane and small the Thrawn trilogy makes Star Wars feel. People make fun of Anakin and Padme packing a normal-ass suitcase in the prequels, but the Thrawn trilogy is basically three books of normal-ass suitcases.
IMO it's a toss up between the Han Solo trilogy and the Rogue Squadron series. I've read pretty much everything in the OT era to +30 ABY (dabbled in the PT era) and while the Thrawn trilogy is good, I wouldn't say it's the best. First best maybe.
I don't even think it's Zahn's best either.
I don't even think it's Zahn's best either.
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It really is the best. His duology also did the impossible job of connecting all the books, even the ones that didn't fit.
Also, I believe he named numerous planets and characters that are now canon.
My favorite SW writer.
Also, I believe he named numerous planets and characters that are now canon.
My favorite SW writer.