GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Banned
Sep 13, 2022
6,889
Kinda bummed how little any of the Blizzard controversies seem to have affected their bottom line. People liked to posture about stuff like the Blitzchung incident or the (many) allegations of sexual harassment, but it seemingly didn't translate to much of anything. Fans still lined up for the big new game as if nothing happened.

To anyone who cared about those stories but bought Diablo 4 at launch: do you feel there's any contradiction there? Do you feel Blizzard has changed or needs to change? Does any of this bother you?
Idk I associate the troubles at Activision and Blizzard to a few people, who may not even be there anymore. It doesn't bother me because I'm not going to let a few awful people paint the whole Diablo 4 dev team as horrible people.

People like Bobby Kotick are getting paid regardless. It doesn't matter if you don't buy the game or not, dude has multiple sources of income coming in that we can't control.
 

Irikan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,409
You don't have to buy any overpriced cosmetics. Yes the price is ridiculous. I just ignore it an play the game instead of ranting about it.
Yeah. Like I want to be mad at the ridiculous prices for armor sets in a full priced game, but... they don't really look better than sets in the game? So if it makes it so that the game gets better support as a live service game, then whatever, I can easily ignore it lol. If the in game content was lacking it would be a bit different though
 

Hotdog Hideout

Alt-Account
Banned
Jun 1, 2023
229
Good to see, really enjoying this game. Do wish the steamdeck could play it without the fans going wild though
 

NoWayOut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,077
Yeah. Like I want to be mad at the ridiculous prices for armor sets in a full priced game, but... they don't really look better than sets in the game? So if it makes it so that the game gets better support as a live service game, then whatever, I can easily ignore it lol. If the in game content was lacking it would be a bit different though

Exactly! I will gladly pay for new content DLC (story expansion or new class). I don't even mind the $10 BP if I have enough time to sink in it. Bottom line for me is that I can still enjoy the game knowing that the shop sells $25 skins I will never buy.
 

Gravemind IV

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,962
Just came home from a 3 week holiday and can't wait to get some hours in. This bodes well for ongoing support thankfully.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,439
I really don't see why Blizzard is getting shit here for things that other games have been doing for a long time now. Early access? Fuck Blizzard, Item shop? Fuck Blizzard. Battle Pass? Fuck Blizzard.

I know some people feel very strongly about some of these things, but this isn't the game to direct that anger towards. It's polished, full of content, Blizzard was open about everything, and the game is going to be supported for years. We'll probably still be playing this game in over a decade.

I don't see anyone complaining about the shop in CoD, Siege, Darktide (to be fair they stopped adding to it when they were busy fixing the game), or any of the other countless full-priced games with skins you can buy.
 

Rahkeesh

Member
Jun 20, 2022
4,152
Diablo 3 must have outsold it otherwise why not brag about sales numbers?

Well yes, I doubt they hit 20 million + yet. I don't see the point of that post...
I really don't see why Blizzard is getting shit here for things that other games have been doing for a long time now. Early access? Fuck Blizzard, Item shop? Fuck Blizzard. Battle Pass? Fuck Blizzard.

I know some people feel very strongly about some of these things, but this isn't the game to direct that anger towards. It's polished, full of content, Blizzard was open about everything, and the game is going to be supported for years. We'll probably still be playing this game in over a decade.

I don't see anyone complaining about the shop in CoD, Siege, Darktide (to be fair they stopped adding to it when they were busy fixing the game), or any of the other countless full-priced games with skins you can buy.

Its been nearly a decade since the last Diablo game, and hell, half of them want to forget D3 and go back to D2. So you're going to get fans coming back with expectations from 10-20 years ago, yes. And that's not entirely unfair when Blizzard is exploiting those same expectations to vastly outsell every other ARPG on the strength of the name alone.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515

I'm not a Blizzard or AK defender but given their super toxic reputation, this seems rather low for their employee count. We also know that punishment has been dealt and more people feel comfortable coming forward with abuse allegations, which is another positive development. I still have major issues with Blizzard in terms of the Hong Kong protests, and I'm sure there's far more work to be done on the HR front, but I'm not sure what the issue is with the tweet you posted. If I'm missing some detail here please let me know.

Edit: Oh, Jesus Christ. Thank you for the post below this one.
 
Last edited:

seroun

Banned
Oct 25, 2018
4,519
I'm not a Blizzard or AK defender but given their super toxic reputation, this seems rather low for their employee count. We also know that punishment has been dealt and more people feel comfortable coming forward with abuse allegations, which is another positive development. I still have major issues with Blizzard in terms of the Hong Kong protests, and I'm sure there's far more work to be done on the HR front, but I'm not sure what the issue is with the tweet you posted. If I'm missing some detail here please let me know.

That's Activision-Blizzard's own "investigation". According to AB, AB received only 114 reports, of which AB understood only 29 of them were substantiated.

DFEH talked about a "pervasive" (spreading widely throughout an area or a group of people) frat boy culture, in which women (and other men) were subjected to sexual harassment, cube crawls, rape jokes, and gender discrimination in terms of pay and positions.

The person they hired to solve these issues, Jen Oneal, who took over as co-leader with Ybarra to solve these issues, left three months after taking up that role.

I loved what I played of Diablo IV. But as many ex-devs and devs have let on on Twitter and as DFEH reports have talked about, the issue in Blizzard hasn't just been 29 incidents in 2022. And after Kotick's piece on Variety, it's clear that both management and shareholders don't see anything wrong with the old Blizzard culture.
 

Tomasdk

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
910
That vocal group has been groaning for over a decade about the way things are now. It's a lost cause, no one cares anymore. Sterling in particular has been on a crusade against ANY monetization, no matter how benign. It's out of touch content that resonates with a shrinking few gaming boomers who wish every game was the way things used to be, rose tinted to absolute fuck of course.

Anyone who is unable to control their impulses and not buy shit they can't afford needs to avoid most live service games, period. The rest of us can enjoy free content paid for by people who can afford pretties.
Yeah, Sterlings videos, unfortunately became a toxic pool of bad faith arguments meant to produce outrage at all costs. Then they flat out admitted to doing videos about mtx in bad faith in their RE4 video, which was also full of ridiculous statements and bad faith arguments and I lost all hope, it's a waste of time to watch content by people like this. There's no value there.
 

Tendo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,505
Yeah, Sterlings videos, unfortunately became a toxic pool of bad faith arguments meant to produce outrage at all costs. Then they flat out admitted to doing videos about mtx in bad faith in their RE4 video, which was also full of ridiculous statements and bad faith arguments and I lost all hope, it's a waste of time to watch content by people like this. There's no value there.
I hadn't watched Sterling's stuff in awhile, and a month or so back watched two and thought they were ok? then realized that it was all just controversy and exaggerated arguments to drum up engagement. Off my sub list. I don't have time for that crap. I don't have time for people that are mad for the sake of being mad.
 

NoWayOut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,077
I hadn't watched Sterling's stuff in awhile, and a month or so back watched two and thought they were ok? then realized that it was all just controversy and exaggerated arguments to drum up engagement. Off my sub list. I don't have time for that crap. I don't have time for people that are mad for the sake of being mad.

I used to watch Sterling videos regularly but at some point I had to unsubscribe. You don't like MTX, I get it, many of these corporations are shady, I get it, but there is only so many times I can listen to soapbox outrage about the usual crap. I agree in principle, but if I have to be outraged and boycott every company guilty of shitty practices towards employees or customers, I might just give up on gaming all together and even owning any type of console, smartphone or electronic device.
Then there are those, especially here, who like to practice selective outrage. Blizzard bad! But maybe they have many Apple devices made in sweatshops with suicide nets on their buildings. At least we have a sticky thread here to make us all aware and feel better about ourselves.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,764
Philadelphia, PA
Idk I associate the troubles at Activision and Blizzard to a few people, who may not even be there anymore. It doesn't bother me because I'm not going to let a few awful people paint the whole Diablo 4 dev team as horrible people.

Seeing as most of staff of Diablo 4 are essentially staff at Blizzard Albany (i.e Vicarious Visions) and none of the staff at VV were part of the toxic work culture issues you aren't wrong. It's just unfortunate because VV is now under the Blizzard name, they're basically labeled guilty by association despite tthem not having a anything to do with the main issues at Activision Blizzard.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
Texas
Seeing as most of staff of Diablo 4 are essentially staff at Blizzard Albany (i.e Vicarious Visions) and none of the staff at VV were part of the toxic work culture issues you aren't wrong. It's just unfortunate because VV is now under the Blizzard name, they're basically labeled guilty by association despite tthem not having a anything to do with the main issues at Activision Blizzard.
It hasn't seemed to have much of an impact on them, thankfully. However if the game was a dud I assume the gamer rage folks would've wrapped their anger at the game up in an "actiblizz does bad stuff" wrapper.
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Banned
Sep 13, 2022
6,889
Seeing as most of staff of Diablo 4 are essentially staff at Blizzard Albany (i.e Vicarious Visions) and none of the staff at VV were part of the toxic work culture issues you aren't wrong. It's just unfortunate because VV is now under the Blizzard name, they're basically labeled guilty by association despite tthem not having a anything to do with the main issues at Activision Blizzard.
Oh VV made this? Well that explains it they made my favorite destiny content as well (forsaken expansion)
 

Chirotera

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,304
That vocal group has been groaning for over a decade about the way things are now. It's a lost cause, no one cares anymore. Sterling in particular has been on a crusade against ANY monetization, no matter how benign. It's out of touch content that resonates with a shrinking few gaming boomers who wish every game was the way things used to be, rose tinted to absolute fuck of course.

Anyone who is unable to control their impulses and not buy shit they can't afford needs to avoid most live service games, period. The rest of us can enjoy free content paid for by people who can afford pretties.

It's really not about self control, but the principle. Just because it's slid this way, doesn't mean we should accept it. Now developers ship unfinished games and add f2p mechanics in $70 titles.

If you don't understand why consumers should be against this model I don't know what to tell you. It does not benefit us, only the corporations.

That said, I know it's never going away now. The doors are open, can't really do anything about it.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
Texas
It's really not about self control, but the principle. Just because it's slid this way, doesn't mean we should accept it. Now developers ship unfinished games and add f2p mechanics in $70 titles.

If you don't understand why consumers should be against this model I don't know what to tell you. It does not benefit us, only the corporations.

That said, I know it's never going away now. The doors are open, can't really do anything about it.
This is a very finished, extremely polished game.

The "F2P" mechanics in this are funding post-launch content. Monetization of post-launch content is ubiquitous. The most consumer-friendly form of this is optional cosmetics. Yes, this game does some bad stuff (though the use of the word FOMO as if it's some incredibly powerful and predatory force that poor gamers are powerless to overcome is getting old). It also avoids doing a ton of horrible shit we see in the space (loot boxes, gacha, other gambling, pay to win).

If y'all are mad at everything, it's just noise.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,896
My biggest complaint is that the game feels too much like a console game when played on PC, which is obviously what it was designed for. I'll eventually pick it up on a sale, give it some more time to fleshen out into a better game, but it's a solid foundation. Hope they continue to support it in an inventive way.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,781
Hamburg, Germany
lol gamers weren't going to boycott regardless of what they said.
I can assure you that while I can't speak for "gamers" as a whole, and really don't want to, at least the handful of people I know of who said "fuck Blizzard" back when they, you know, killed a woman by suicide among other things, the people that then continued to delete their Battle.net account, guess what - we still do not have a battle.net account anymore.

What's with the enjoyment you're taking out of your presumption? Such a weird and kinda toxic way to celebrate this game. And I'm not only talking to you but also other, similar drive by comments in this thread. Would you rather have people like me in every thread being gleefully loud about how we don't support this and look at you angrily? Because I'm sure then people would be upset too. Because any way you would frame it, people who caved would take it at others looking down on them. Which is probably true and warranted, but not what most "boycotters" wanted in the first place.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,375
Idk I associate the troubles at Activision and Blizzard to a few people, who may not even be there anymore. It doesn't bother me because I'm not going to let a few awful people paint the whole Diablo 4 dev team as horrible people.

People like Bobby Kotick are getting paid regardless. It doesn't matter if you don't buy the game or not, dude has multiple sources of income coming in that we can't control.

Except it's not a few folks but a culture of harassment.
 

NoWayOut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,077
It's really not about self control, but the principle. Just because it's slid this way, doesn't mean we should accept it. Now developers ship unfinished games and add f2p mechanics in $70 titles.

I agree with you, but this is NOT the case with D4. It is a complete, very well polished game that can be fully enjoyed with just the price of admission and guarantees literally hundreds of hours of gameplay if you enjoy the Loot, ARGP genre. The game design, mechanics and content is complete out of the box and there is nothing that was "held back" and sold separately. Skins are not content.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,764
Philadelphia, PA
Oh VV made this? Well that explains it they made my favorite destiny content as well (forsaken expansion)

There was a series of videos on D2: Ressurected development which was VV first project under Blizzard. When I found out they were also transitioned over to handle development on Diablo 4 it would only lead to good things.

VV has a stellar history. I don't recall a bad project they worked on.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
Texas
I can assure you that while I can't speak for "gamers" as a whole, and really don't want to, at least the handful of people I know of who said "fuck Blizzard" back when they, you know, killed a woman by suicide among other things, the people that then continued to delete their Battle.net account, guess what - we still do not have a battle.net account anymore.

What's with the enjoyment you're taking out of your presumption? Such a weird and kinda toxic way to celebrate this game. And I'm not only talking to you but also other, similar drive by comments in this thread. Would you rather have people like me in every thread being gleefully loud about how we don't support this and look at you angrily? Because I'm sure then people would be upset too. Because any way you would frame it, people who caved would take it at others looking down on them. Which is probably true and warranted, but not what most "boycotters" wanted in the first place.
this website is already full of people taking every opportunity to tell everyone else how much better they are for making decision A while ignoring the other thousand decisions they make every day that enables shit that is just as horrible.

For the people who boycotted the game: good on you for standing by your principles. I hope you get the result you seek with your protest.

The people who find every opportunity to shame everyone else for not joining in (not something I'm accusing you of, but that behavior is all over this board) need to investigate why they feel the need to blame and shame individuals uninvolved in the bad shit.

No purchase we make is a clean transaction. Not everyone sees a direct line from them personally depriving themselves of something they'll enjoy in their potentially not amazing lives to the stopping of particular bad behavior from a megacorp. For example, the reward of someone playing D4 is more to that person than the "hurt" the bad actors at Blizzard might feel from their lost purchase. Condemning that person for that decision is dumb shit. Conflating it with approval of the nasty shit going on at Blizzard is galaxy-brained idiocy. (Again, not what you're doing, but you see these posts all the time around here.)

It's not surprising that people would be defensive or sarcastic about it given the way these discussions usually go.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,781
Hamburg, Germany
The people who find every opportunity to shame everyone else for not joining in (not something I'm accusing you of, but that behavior is all over this board) need to investigate why they feel the need to blame and shame individuals uninvolved in the bad shit.
To be fair (TM) I was, am, and will do this for people buying the Hogs game, given that they actually know about the issues surrounding the license and the hurt it brings to others, but don't deem it relevant enough to care :p I understand what you mean though.

In terms of getting the result I wanted, there's not really any. I didn't want to support that company anymore, and so I didn't. I've never expected this to be in any way relevant for Blizzard's bottom line.
 

Tendo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,505
I used to watch Sterling videos regularly but at some point I had to unsubscribe. You don't like MTX, I get it, many of these corporations are shady, I get it, but there is only so many times I can listen to soapbox outrage about the usual crap. I agree in principle, but if I have to be outraged and boycott every company guilty of shitty practices towards employees or customers, I might just give up on gaming all together and even owning any type of console, smartphone or electronic device.
Then there are those, especially here, who like to practice selective outrage. Blizzard bad! But maybe they have many Apple devices made in sweatshops with suicide nets on their buildings. At least we have a sticky thread here to make us all aware and feel better about ourselves.

I agree. You can't make hating something your personality. Its draining on others and you are gonna turn people away from your message.

I had a similar experience with the Player one Podcast. They had a new cohost join them for awhile and he would go out of his way, every episode, to rant AT LENGTH about the evils of microtransactions because he once got "tricked" into spending a ton of money on a mobile game. They'd be in the middle of a conversation on a boss fight and he'd fly off about predatory spending. Totally derail every single episode. I quit listening until he finally left the show. I just can't have sympathy or want to deal with ADULTS crying about self inflicted problems like FOMO or being "forced" to spend money. Its your wallet. You choose to use it or not. At some point you have to take some self responsibility. Blizzard made the bullshit store. But YOU are choosing to give it your money.

I agree that all these things suck and are problems but at a certain point holy shit I get it man.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,410
It's really not about self control, but the principle. Just because it's slid this way, doesn't mean we should accept it. Now developers ship unfinished games and add f2p mechanics in $70 titles.

If you don't understand why consumers should be against this model I don't know what to tell you. It does not benefit us, only the corporations.
Shipping an unfinished or bad games happened before GAAS and $70 MSRP. While you may not like it, there have been many, many games and genres that have benefited from the live service model. There have also been poor implementations of said model just like anything else.
 

Toiletduck

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,379
I have a gaming PC and XSX - currently playing on the XSX. Going away for the summer - if I buy the PC version can I still stream if it's not local? Seemed unclear from googling it

I think Xbox would be easier to remote play over the internet (works well for me with my PS5). I think it could work with PC, though maybe require more tinkering.
 

carlsojo

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 28, 2017
34,162
San Francisco
This is a very finished, extremely polished game.

The "F2P" mechanics in this are funding post-launch content. Monetization of post-launch content is ubiquitous. The most consumer-friendly form of this is optional cosmetics. Yes, this game does some bad stuff (though the use of the word FOMO as if it's some incredibly powerful and predatory force that poor gamers are powerless to overcome is getting old). It also avoids doing a ton of horrible shit we see in the space (loot boxes, gacha, other gambling, pay to win).

If y'all are mad at everything, it's just noise.

No exaggeration this is the most feature-complete endgame at launch I have ever played.
 

FellowTarnished

Alt account
Banned
Mar 8, 2022
3,240
No exaggeration this is the most feature-complete endgame at launch I have ever played.

Yep, there's a ton to do. I play a lot and I never get bored because the content is varied, they've done a really good job. I'm excited for the future, because they can spend all their time adding instead of fixing.
 

Deleted member 17289

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,163
Incredible game. Playing it on ps5. Will get it on PC in a few months down the road when all the current issues are ironed out.
 

belairjeff

J->E Localization
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,334
My only complaint is that those cosmetics should just be included in the game as unique armor sets. I can say so far that my barbarian's range of styles of armor in the first 40 levels or so have been pretty samey.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,269
Kinda bummed how little any of the Blizzard controversies seem to have affected their bottom line. People liked to posture about stuff like the Blitzchung incident or the (many) allegations of sexual harassment, but it seemingly didn't translate to much of anything. Fans still lined up for the big new game as if nothing happened.

To anyone who cared about those stories but bought Diablo 4 at launch: do you feel there's any contradiction there? Do you feel Blizzard has changed or needs to change? Does any of this bother you?

blizzard has outwardly gotten rid of a lot of problematic stuff in WOW, OW is OW, and Diablo 4 specifically they fired the leads of the game who were attached to the project, with new folks taking over. is that enough? not my place to say. but i can at least feel OK supporting a dev who is trying, and not pretending it doesn't exist or whatever.

this isn't everyone, but something to remember: a lot of noise comes from people who already didn't like Blizzard/Activision. this isn't downplaying the noise, but to explain why it seems so many people are still supporting the products while also hearing about those who hate it. there are a lot of people who use situations dealing with things they already don't care about to give them an excuse to insult thing. again, this isn't about saying it wasn't a big deal, but to explain the disconnect you are seeing.

as someone who considers them ultra progressive, something i feel related to that is... being used. i get that feeling a lot by people who make it obvious they are only talking about xx thing because they already have a bone to pick.

Ok like so what's the difference between this and something like that Korean top down game whatsit called? Is it just the darker world? The blood? The demons?

the difference between super mario world and sonic 2
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,694
Can anyone explain why they think this???


Like, what - specifically - makes this game good?
It looks great, plays great, is fantastic fun with friends, the story is great, and the cutscenes are some of the best looking I've seen since I got my PS5.


It also helps that with the way the leveling works a person can make a brand new character and be level 5 and jump in a group with their level 87 friends and still have an enjoyable experience.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,694
They say fastest but give zero sales data?

This is just stupid. What is there even to look at here?

Pure ego stroking.

Also kind of curious how the metrics hold up in 1 month.
The first season starts in roughly a month or so my guess will be that the metrics look roughly the same as they are now or possibly even better due to word of mouth spreading about how good the game is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,754
Just bought it. Ideally would have been on PC, but no local co-op swayed me to PS5. Want to play with my roommate.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,694
Just bought it. Ideally would have been on PC, but no local co-op swayed me to PS5. Want to play with my roommate.
My buddy was in a similar situation. He really wanted it for PC because that's where he's always bought all the other Diablo games but he knew that all of the rest of us would be getting it for console so he snagged it up on PS5.
 

YoungGunsII

Banned
Apr 23, 2019
1,115
Denmark
Every time I log on my Xbox 50% of my friends list are playing D4

I know people who havnt bought games for years for their console/pc going out and buying this for day one.

People talking about Zelda, But I think D4 is going to be this year's biggest game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,754
My buddy was in a similar situation. He really wanted it for PC because that's where he's always bought all the other Diablo games but he knew that all of the rest of us would be getting it for console so he snagged it up on PS5.
I think with crossplay that wouldn't be a problem. It's just that local co-op is only on console due to some BS Battle.net profile excuse. I'm sure they could have solved the issue but I guess they didn't deem it worthy. Oh well, PS5 is still 60 FPS and will be supported long term so I'm not that upset. I just dread the inevitable double dip.